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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
 Sioras messed around in ZvZ and I at least I'm not sure if its a bug or not.So if you can please help us out? EDIT: for those who are confused why drones are not moving. I stopped them so its obvious that Queen and any other unit ignored any other move commands and keeps attacking the zerglings  Sorry for the rushed video edit Here is the video: | ||
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XaMaXaM
Germany113 Posts
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
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Bastinian
Serbia177 Posts
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
So for example, if you told that drone to move, the queen would also move. Once that drone stops and idles, the queen will also stop and idle (which would allow it attack). If you tell the drone to attack move, the queen will also attack move. Even if you focus fire with the unit being followed the units following will also target the same unit (I think). TL;DR: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ move along. Those drones look happy. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On May 06 2016 07:31 hellokitty[hk] wrote: Intended behavior. If you set a unit to follow another unit, the units following will do the same command as the unit being followed. So for example, if you told that drone to move, the queen would also move. Once that drone stops and idles, the queen will also stop and idle (which would allow it attack). If you tell the drone to attack move, the queen will also attack move. Even if you focus fire with the unit being followed the units following will also target the same unit (I think). TL;DR: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ move along. Those drones look happy. That's not true. Following unit has a locked move command and when there is a little or no distance to the followed unit it acts as in idle mode. | ||
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
On May 06 2016 07:56 aQuaSC wrote: That's not true. Following unit has a locked move command and when there is a little or no distance to the followed unit it acts as in idle mode. That's not true. | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
On May 06 2016 07:07 Bastinian wrote: If I understood, Drones stop moving after you left click on them while Queen is on hold? No Queen and any other unit wont trigger the MOVE command and keeps attacking if something is in distance and yea it is pain in the ass. TL:DR: I know this fast video edit suck but please follow the text in pauses! Thank you | ||
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The_Frozen_Inferno
Canada98 Posts
1. Follow is a smart-command, a special case of the [move] command when used on a friendly unit 2a. When a unit becomes a Follower, it attempts to maintain proximity to the Target unit 2b. When the Follower is near to the Target, it remains in an idling stat akin to 'Stop' - it will attack anything nearby and in range 2c. However, if the Target were to move out of proximity, the Follower drops everything to Move back into proper protection range 2d. The Target's behaviour is not directly related to the actions of the Follower. If one had a flock of phoenix Following a Drone, and the Drone is Moved underneath a cloud of enemy overlords, the phoenix would attack while on the Move. If it was a group of vikings, they would be unable to shoot AND move, but they would be able to shoot as long as they were not trying to Move into protection range of the target. 2e. there is a small, non-zero leash range in which the Target can move around before the Follower tries to close the gap. this is why followers always lag behind / are a step slow The conjectured bug in the OP's video is this: Expectation: If one has a friendly unit that is attacking, one should be able to cancel the attack command by right-clicking / moving Observation: when the attacking queen was right-clicked on friendly drones, the queen continued attacking rather than moving Therefore, possibly a bug. Replicated and confirmed. However, further testing reveals that this only happens under specific conditions: IF an attacking unit is right-clicked on a friendly unit that is 10 or less distance from the current attack target, the attacking unit will not Move. In the video, the friendly drone is less than 10 range away from the enemy zergling that the queen is attacking. If one were to try the situation again but right-click on a friendly unit that was further away, the queen would stop attacking as expected 1. it doesn't matter what the weapon range of the attacking unit is or whether it's a queen 2. it doesn't matter what the targeted friendly unit is, as long as it's a unit and not a building or mineral patch 3. it doesn't matter if the targeted friendly unit is flying or ground - distance is all that matters 4. the attacking unit must be attacking / auto-attacking an enemy unit; this behaviour does not occur if you gave a direct attack command on a friendly unit IF you right click on the ground, another enemy unit, a structure of any affinity, or a mineral patch, or a friendly unit 10+ distance away, the attacking unit will Move as expected. ONLY if the attacking unit is right-clicked on a friendly unit < 10 distance from the current attack target will it for some reason consider itself 'close enough' (or within leash range) to its protection target and continue attacking | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
On May 06 2016 10:01 The_Frozen_Inferno wrote: I successfully replicated the behaviour in the OPs video. However, further testing reveals what is going on here: 1. Follow is a smart-command, a special case of the [move] command when used on a friendly unit 2a. When a unit becomes a Follower, it attempts to maintain proximity to the Target unit 2b. When the Follower is near to the Target, it remains in an idling stat akin to 'Stop' - it will attack anything nearby and in range 2c. However, if the Target were to move out of proximity, the Follower drops everything to Move back into proper protection range 2d. The Target's behaviour is not directly related to the actions of the Follower. If one had a flock of phoenix Following a Drone, and the Drone is Moved underneath a cloud of enemy overlords, the phoenix would attack while on the Move. If it was a group of vikings, they would be unable to shoot AND move, but they would be able to shoot as long as they were not trying to Move into protection range of the target. 2e. there is a small, non-zero leash range in which the Target can move around before the Follower tries to close the gap. this is why followers always lag behind / are a step slow The conjectured bug in the OP's video is this: Expectation: If one has a friendly unit that is attacking, one should be able to cancel the attack command by right-clicking / moving Observation: when the attacking queen was right-clicked on friendly drones, the queen continued attacking rather than moving Therefore, possibly a bug. Replicated and confirmed. However, further testing reveals that this only happens under specific conditions: IF an attacking unit is right-clicked on a friendly unit that is 10 or less distance from the current attack target, the attacking unit will not Move. In the video, the friendly drone is less than 10 range away from the enemy zergling that the queen is attacking. If one were to try the situation again but right-click on a friendly unit that was further away, the queen would stop attacking as expected 1. it doesn't matter what the weapon range of the attacking unit is or whether it's a queen 2. it doesn't matter what the targeted friendly unit is, as long as it's a unit and not a building or mineral patch 3. it doesn't matter if the targeted friendly unit is flying or ground - distance is all that matters 4. the attacking unit must be attacking / auto-attacking an enemy unit; this behaviour does not occur if you gave a direct attack command on a friendly unit IF you right click on the ground, another enemy unit, a structure of any affinity, or a mineral patch, or a friendly unit 10+ distance away, the attacking unit will Move as expected. ONLY if the attacking unit is right-clicked on a friendly unit < 10 distance from the current attack target will it for some reason consider itself 'close enough' (or within leash range) to its protection target and continue attacking Thank you for your very detailed input! We tested only early game ling with queen since we observed this weird "bug"? in only 2 scenarions: A. Facing 3 rax reaper B. Facing Early Speed Pool agression But yeah I think human input should be above the auto attack range? No matter if i click ground, drone, building? | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
I'm pretty sure we didn't have that bug before ? | ||
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The_Frozen_Inferno
Canada98 Posts
-> My last post above may be wrong and/or incomplete *edit: might have figured it out *** There is a field in the editor called 'Follow Acquire Range'. It's set at 6. What follows is for a unit that is NOT currently a Follower. If the Attacker is already attacking an Enemy unit and then you give it a Move command on a friendly Target unit, the game runs some kind of comparison calculation using the current position of the Attacker, the Enemy unit and the current position of the Target: Case 1: IF the Attacker is (less than range 6 from the Target unit's current position AND is in weapon range of the Enemy unit) THEN it will not Move and will continue doing what it was doing. Case 2: IF the Attacker is (not currently at range 6 from the Target, but there is a spot where it could be at range 6 while also staying in firing range of the Enemy) THEN the Attacker will move to that spot and continue firing. -> so for example, imagine 3 units all in a straight line for simplicity. the Enemy Ultralisk is at point 0. If the Colossus is attacking a stationary enemy Ultra from range 2, if you right click the Colossus onto a friendly Tempest that is at range 11 from the Ultra, the Colossus will back up until it is 6 range from the overlord and continue firing at range of 5 from the Ultra. Case 3: IF there is no firing solution where (the Attacker can be at range 6 to the Target AND remain in firing range of the Enemy), THEN the Attacker will disengage and Move to the side of the Target as per [Follower Behaviour] ** In all cases, the attacking unit has become a [Follower]. But in cases 1, and 2 the Attacker does not yet display [Follower Behaviour] due to smart-command prioritization that prefers the above attacking behavior first (I think). A Follower displays [Follower Behaviour] when it attempts to stay at a range of 1 from its Target. - IF the distance is more than 1, THEN Move to be near it. - IF it is currently close enough, then it is effectively in [stop] mode and will fire at anything in weapon range. - While Moving to follow the Target, the Follower cannot attack unless it's able to attack while moving. However, it only begins to run this distance comparison check when the Target is next issued a new Move command - it is not dynamically checking. Suppose that a marine was currently shooting at a burrowed enemy ultralisk. If you right click the attacking marine onto a currently patrolling friendly SCV, the current location of the SCV and the Ultra at the moment you right-click will be what's used determines the marine's behavior as detailed above. In cases 1 and 2, whether or not the SCV subsequently moves more than 11 range away from the ultra during its patrol has no effect - the marine will keep attacking and will not Move to the Target SCV's side even if it goes to the other side of the map. However, the moment that you issue the SCV a new Move command (whether the SCV is 2, 6, or 50 range away from the ultra at that moment), the [Follower Behaviour] kicks in on the marine all of a sudden and the marine prioritizes being 1 range away from the SCV above all else. Even if the marine is currently at range 5 from the ultra and within range 6 of the SCV at the time the Move command is given to the SCV, the above cases no longer apply for whatever reason. Until that first instance of [Follower Behaviour] takes over, the Attacker will continue to engage the enemy. It made a judgment call and thinks it can do its guard duty from range 6 I suppose. Until the Target starts to move and then all bets are off, so it has to then stick close to the Target from now on. Once it begins shadowing the Target at range 1, it will no longer try to engage anything while at range 6 from the Target. | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
Since human input should be always prioritized And yeah its flustrating to die when units not listening | ||
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SiorasSC
23 Posts
F to pay respect.. F | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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The_Frozen_Inferno
Canada98 Posts
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printf
United States13 Posts
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DekkuM
United States149 Posts
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