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On May 04 2016 17:15 Legobiten wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 17:08 Jj_82 wrote:On May 04 2016 16:27 insitelol wrote:
Am i the only one who finds this hilarious? Maybe, yes. Since the patch was pretty hefty and I didn't want it to happen – especially with Dreamhack just around the corner! To the people yelling DK shouldn't listen to plebs: 1) Plebs keep the game alive, and 2) I'm shure they can weigh different voices accordingly. But plebs don't have one voice and overall they lack game knowledge (me included). That's why it's impossible to listen to them regarding such advanced things as balance. Chaos, that's what you get.
If you don't listen to reasons people give to back up their points, you shouldn't propose weird balance changes which aren't even aimed at the highest competitive level in the first place.
Yes, we don't know everything and aren't pros (who can be just as biased) at the game, but after playing this game for over 5 years and following its course lots of us are THE core of SC2 and I think have a decent understanding of what they expect and want from this game. Sure, there are also the guys who are pretty happy with the way things went so far, to each his own, but then you should also respect the thoughts of those who aren't.
Overall good move to roll back on the patch, unsure why this process can't be more streamlined with providing some data from those balance test maps to explain your line of argument better, having this weekly drama generator seems unhealthy to me in the long run.
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On May 04 2016 17:55 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Protoss:
- reduce AA damage of overcharged pylones (weaken phoenix opening since phoenix defend everything with lifting units in front of pylones/canons) You have this completely backwards if you think that reducing overcharge damage vs air units will weaken oracle/phoenix openings. Overcharge has 4.2x the DPS and 1.167x the range of stalkers vs light air units and is the first line of defense against them
I meant in PvZ and PvT (especially PvZ). I don't care about PvP which is by definition balanced.
To my understanding, PvZ is unbalanced now because phoenix openings are too good and allows to have harass, map control, overlord kill, and still allow to defend everything with PO + lift. This allows the protoss to transition very safely to double robo and get all of his tech while being very safe.
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Cyro I think you should give up your holy crusade against mutas. Mutas are not strong. Mutas are barely seen. Yes the threat of them is something very real that protoss has to consider, but realistically, they are only truely powerfull if you let zerg have enough money to build 25+ at once.
Giving protoss a carefree early game like you seem to want with buffs against mutas for protoss, where scouting is even less important, and improving their strenght vs all these 'allins' that you are talking about (ling,queen, rav-roach, ling-bane) would just give zerg an even harder time in the matchup at the highest level than it has currently.
All this stuff is easy to hold for top protoss, but maybe not for you because you are 'high master' and you just don't have the level, preparation, and perfected reactions to all strategies. You are quite clearly constantly putting your very biased opinion out there based on your own ladder games and that kind of stuff is exactly what David Kim does not need to hear. Let him collect feedback from Kespa pros instead before something stupid like this cannon buffs gets in the game that fucks with corrupter interaction as well. A stalker buff vs air is ridiculous, it helps P in many situations not just vs mutas and stalkers already do pretty well vs mutas in mass numbers, as do archons.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
I don't care about PvP which is by definition balanced.
Statistically balanced, that doesn't mean designed well. Phoenixes and Oracles are actually quite strong in the matchup right now, strong enough to bring recent movements like this - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/505739-a-change-to-the-oracle - even though PO has its current damage.
The photon overcharge nerf in the last patch, which doubled its cost, has skewed the favor towards the harassing player against the defending player slightly more than what should be considered healthy in a mirror matchup. Namely, the stargate route has become so hard to deal with that rather than relying on stalkers and overcharge for defense, players prefer to play stargate themselves.
We get design changes quite often for mirror matchups, one of the easiest examples is the spore crawler +bio change which was targetted not just at one mirror matchup, but at one unit (the mutalisk).
PO damage nerf vs air units would have a lot of bad effects. It's critically important for defending against a lot of air units - the situation where you have phoenixes lifting units up while they get shot by the PO is actually only a small fraction of the time that PO is using its air attack.
A stalker buff vs air is ridiculous, it helps P in many situations not just vs mutas and stalkers already do pretty well vs mutas in mass numbers, as do archons.
Stalkers are very weak against non-armored AA, that's most obvious against phoenix and mutas. They hit 1.4x higher against armored air and that damage point seems to be in a good place (for example, look at stalker vs medivac, stalker vs liberator, stalker vs viking, flying buildings, battlecruisers, void rays, carriers) but it's obvious that the AA-nonarmored damage is very low, maybe too low. It's been kinda that way for a very long time but we have gone along with it.
Other stuff:
All this stuff is easy to hold for top protoss
Maybe top-top level, but top-top level has much more selective map choice and you have to take that into account as well as skill.
It's not a holy crusade, i am trying to make feedback somewhat clear because it's not at the moment. I (like many others in the thread and poll) said that if there was going to be a change made, another massive damage multiplier on a static defense vs bio-air was probably not the best change to make.
Highmaster level feedback is much better than far lower levels, it's high enough to have a feeling of what's relevant in pro games. You can't completely ignore the 99% of players below that skill level even if it's appropriate to put more focus on the singular best player in the world; some other stats are relevant here, like diamond league being 21% protoss rather than 32-33% to all races.
DKim is always free to listen to the people that are winning tournaments for dat $$ - A council of $$-winners will know best when it comes to raw balance and it's hard to argue against that, though a council is quite neccesary because of inherant racial biases. State of the Game was quite excellent to watch and had some good debates, i feel that we could really use a similar show today.
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They've missed their shot at making the game what it should be when they decided to provide no deep design changes along the release of LotV. No patch will ever make up for that.
I agree this community can be toxic and overly negative at times but it's also been providing the very best and most competent feedback I've ever seen.
Blizzard's PR strategy was conceptually fine but hasn't worked out because of how repetitive and uninformative DK's messages have been. The guy is lost, this communication job isn't what he's paid for and he can't be expected to perform it well, I feel sorry enough for him.
The more time passes by, the more I feel like SC2 can't be saved. It's not a bad game (granted not an amazing one either), it's miles above all of the other members of its genre, but real-time strategy won't ever be as popular as we'd like it to be. It's not that hard to understand from a spectator's point of view (especially compared to the graphical/tactical mess that MOBAs can be), it's just too hard to play and get into. The learning curve is way too steep. Blizzard has understood this a few years ago already and they're moving on to a casual philosophy that's serving them well.
So yeah, HotS and Hearthstone will never be as deep and potentially interesting as SC2 or WC3, but anyone can be good at them. That goes an incredibly long way at making them popular.
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On May 04 2016 19:18 CptMarvel wrote:
They've missed their shot at making the game what it should be when they decided to provide no deep design changes along the release of LotV. No patch will ever make up for that.
I agree this community can be toxic and overly negative at times but it's also been providing the very best and most competent feedback I've ever seen.
Blizzard's PR strategy was conceptually fine but hasn't worked out because of how repetitive and uninformative DK's messages have been. The guy is lost, this communication job isn't what he's paid for and he can't be expected to perform it well, I feel sorry enough for him.
The more time passes by, the more I feel like SC2 can't be saved. It's not a bad game (granted not an amazing one either), it's miles above all of the other members of its genre, but real-time strategy won't ever be as popular as we'd like it to be. It's not that hard to understand from a spectator's point of view (especially compared to the graphical/tactical mess that MOBAs can be), it's just too hard to play and get into. The learning curve is way too steep. Blizzard has understood this a few years ago already and they're moving on to a casual philosophy that's serving them well.
So yeah, HotS and Hearthstone will never be as deep and potentially interesting as SC2 or WC3, but anyone can be good at them. That goes an incredibly long way at making them popular.
This is so wrong. DK is only lead game dev. He isn't in charge of budgeting and stuff. Also he is not in charge of how many people can actually WORK on LotV at the same time.
Since there is no post-release profit. You can't except 50+ developers to working on it. That's why you dont see many deep design changes and stuff. There are simply no human resources on SC2 atm. They did not provide any monotenization?(sry if i missed the work) no voice pack, no skins, no premium features.
Devs are ppl, ppl need to pay bills and stuffs. And since WCS wont generate much money(low subscriber count) and almost 95% of viewers got active adblock. You should be okay with band aid changes. Beucase there is simply no budged or Blizzard might not see that BIG potential in SC2 anymore.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
They did not provide any monotenization?(sry if i missed the work) no voice pack, no skins, no premium features.
This is the fault of blizzard alone, people have been asking for these things for the last 6 years. Paid skins, voice packs, even custom maps for the arcade to support game and map development.
They have started now with nova covert ops missions, but it's little content and very late.
Blizzard (after seeing a lot of concerns about how legacy was going) promised significant changes after legacy dropped and used that as justification for holding back on changes in the last months of the beta, that is why people pressure them about it now.
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On May 04 2016 20:05 PharaphobiaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 19:18 CptMarvel wrote:
They've missed their shot at making the game what it should be when they decided to provide no deep design changes along the release of LotV. No patch will ever make up for that.
I agree this community can be toxic and overly negative at times but it's also been providing the very best and most competent feedback I've ever seen.
Blizzard's PR strategy was conceptually fine but hasn't worked out because of how repetitive and uninformative DK's messages have been. The guy is lost, this communication job isn't what he's paid for and he can't be expected to perform it well, I feel sorry enough for him.
The more time passes by, the more I feel like SC2 can't be saved. It's not a bad game (granted not an amazing one either), it's miles above all of the other members of its genre, but real-time strategy won't ever be as popular as we'd like it to be. It's not that hard to understand from a spectator's point of view (especially compared to the graphical/tactical mess that MOBAs can be), it's just too hard to play and get into. The learning curve is way too steep. Blizzard has understood this a few years ago already and they're moving on to a casual philosophy that's serving them well.
So yeah, HotS and Hearthstone will never be as deep and potentially interesting as SC2 or WC3, but anyone can be good at them. That goes an incredibly long way at making them popular. This is so wrong. DK is only lead game dev. He isn't in charge of budgeting and stuff. Also he is not in charge of how many people can actually WORK on LotV at the same time. Since there is no post-release profit. You can't except 50+ developers to working on it. That's why you dont see many deep design changes and stuff. There are simply no human resources on SC2 atm. They did not provide any monotenization?(sry if i missed the work) no voice pack, no skins, no premium features. Devs are ppl, ppl need to pay bills and stuffs. And since WCS wont generate much money(low subscriber count) and almost 95% of viewers got active adblock. You should be okay with band aid changes. Beucase there is simply no budged or Blizzard might not see that BIG potential in SC2 anymore.
Do you think it is really so difficult to make deep design changes that it needs a whole team? With the powerful editor sc2 has, one guy can do the job. It's really quite easy. Changing around some number in the editor can be done in minutes and completely changes the game. There are a ton of unit models that can be added to the game instantly coming from the single player campaign if there is the need/desire to create a new unit.
It just needs to be someone willing to make big changes to the design. Willing to make leap forwards, instead of backwards. It isn't a matter of lack of manpower, money, or anything like that. And of course it needs to be someone with a good vision of starcraft, a good vision of game design and with the right goals in mind.
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On May 04 2016 20:13 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +They did not provide any monotenization?(sry if i missed the work) no voice pack, no skins, no premium features. This is the fault of blizzard alone, people have been asking for these things for the last 6 years. Paid skins, voice packs, even custom maps for the arcade to support game and map development. They have started now with nova covert ops missions, but it's little content and very late. Blizzard (after seeing a lot of concerns about how legacy was going) promised significant changes after legacy dropped and used that as justification for holding back on changes in the last months of the beta, that is why people pressure them about it now.
It's good that we remember this, I suspected they were hoping we'd forget or the population of players would have mostly renewed itself or turn the newcomers against the others or something... "stuck in an old line of thinking"..
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Good call on this one Blizzard. If you are attentive to what the community is saying, and what issues you can fix in the game without impairing top level gamplay/balance - I think that you can come up with a much better balance patch to issue.
I respect this pause and possible change of direction, including putting the Thor changes on hold/cancelled to take a closer look at the Cyclone's role. Takes alot of guts.
Really hoping you can find the right solutions for the broader 99% of player base game play, along with pro balance.
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I play random and in my opinion the Immortal is by far the strongest unit in the game ^^
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On May 04 2016 20:50 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 20:05 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On May 04 2016 19:18 CptMarvel wrote:
They've missed their shot at making the game what it should be when they decided to provide no deep design changes along the release of LotV. No patch will ever make up for that.
I agree this community can be toxic and overly negative at times but it's also been providing the very best and most competent feedback I've ever seen.
Blizzard's PR strategy was conceptually fine but hasn't worked out because of how repetitive and uninformative DK's messages have been. The guy is lost, this communication job isn't what he's paid for and he can't be expected to perform it well, I feel sorry enough for him.
The more time passes by, the more I feel like SC2 can't be saved. It's not a bad game (granted not an amazing one either), it's miles above all of the other members of its genre, but real-time strategy won't ever be as popular as we'd like it to be. It's not that hard to understand from a spectator's point of view (especially compared to the graphical/tactical mess that MOBAs can be), it's just too hard to play and get into. The learning curve is way too steep. Blizzard has understood this a few years ago already and they're moving on to a casual philosophy that's serving them well.
So yeah, HotS and Hearthstone will never be as deep and potentially interesting as SC2 or WC3, but anyone can be good at them. That goes an incredibly long way at making them popular. This is so wrong. DK is only lead game dev. He isn't in charge of budgeting and stuff. Also he is not in charge of how many people can actually WORK on LotV at the same time. Since there is no post-release profit. You can't except 50+ developers to working on it. That's why you dont see many deep design changes and stuff. There are simply no human resources on SC2 atm. They did not provide any monotenization?(sry if i missed the work) no voice pack, no skins, no premium features. Devs are ppl, ppl need to pay bills and stuffs. And since WCS wont generate much money(low subscriber count) and almost 95% of viewers got active adblock. You should be okay with band aid changes. Beucase there is simply no budged or Blizzard might not see that BIG potential in SC2 anymore. Do you think it is really so difficult to make deep design changes that it needs a whole team? With the powerful editor sc2 has, one guy can do the job. It's really quite easy. Changing around some number in the editor can be done in minutes and completely changes the game. There are a ton of unit models that can be added to the game instantly coming from the single player campaign if there is the need/desire to create a new unit. It just needs to be someone willing to make big changes to the design. Willing to make leap forwards, instead of backwards. It isn't a matter of lack of manpower, money, or anything like that. And of course it needs to be someone with a good vision of starcraft, a good vision of game design and with the right goals in mind.
i never understood why ppl argue that balancing/designing sc2 is rocket science. any small team of ambitioned ppl who understand the game can do it. just look at PoE vs diablo 3 to understand why companies fail. they dont understand their own games.
just look me straight in the eye and tell me that you do not think that some of the head honchos in the community like day9, artosis, morrow, etc etc etc could make a better game than lotv without even having the resources. i will tell you you are either lying or stupid.
personally, im still convinced even my mod can easily be better than lotv, but thats beside the point since im obviously not objective on the issue
thing is: you dont need money. you dont need many ppl. all you need is a bunch of ppl who love the game and understand it. i would much rather play a lotv that was never in DKs hands, let alone builds up on stuff invented by DBs. DB was incompetent. DK is scared of changing stuff. the community has been providing great input all along, but they decided not to listen. its no wonder the community is toxic now and the game is daed
now go play heptacraft 
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On May 04 2016 22:48 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 20:50 H0i wrote:On May 04 2016 20:05 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On May 04 2016 19:18 CptMarvel wrote:
They've missed their shot at making the game what it should be when they decided to provide no deep design changes along the release of LotV. No patch will ever make up for that.
I agree this community can be toxic and overly negative at times but it's also been providing the very best and most competent feedback I've ever seen.
Blizzard's PR strategy was conceptually fine but hasn't worked out because of how repetitive and uninformative DK's messages have been. The guy is lost, this communication job isn't what he's paid for and he can't be expected to perform it well, I feel sorry enough for him.
The more time passes by, the more I feel like SC2 can't be saved. It's not a bad game (granted not an amazing one either), it's miles above all of the other members of its genre, but real-time strategy won't ever be as popular as we'd like it to be. It's not that hard to understand from a spectator's point of view (especially compared to the graphical/tactical mess that MOBAs can be), it's just too hard to play and get into. The learning curve is way too steep. Blizzard has understood this a few years ago already and they're moving on to a casual philosophy that's serving them well.
So yeah, HotS and Hearthstone will never be as deep and potentially interesting as SC2 or WC3, but anyone can be good at them. That goes an incredibly long way at making them popular. This is so wrong. DK is only lead game dev. He isn't in charge of budgeting and stuff. Also he is not in charge of how many people can actually WORK on LotV at the same time. Since there is no post-release profit. You can't except 50+ developers to working on it. That's why you dont see many deep design changes and stuff. There are simply no human resources on SC2 atm. They did not provide any monotenization?(sry if i missed the work) no voice pack, no skins, no premium features. Devs are ppl, ppl need to pay bills and stuffs. And since WCS wont generate much money(low subscriber count) and almost 95% of viewers got active adblock. You should be okay with band aid changes. Beucase there is simply no budged or Blizzard might not see that BIG potential in SC2 anymore. Do you think it is really so difficult to make deep design changes that it needs a whole team? With the powerful editor sc2 has, one guy can do the job. It's really quite easy. Changing around some number in the editor can be done in minutes and completely changes the game. There are a ton of unit models that can be added to the game instantly coming from the single player campaign if there is the need/desire to create a new unit. It just needs to be someone willing to make big changes to the design. Willing to make leap forwards, instead of backwards. It isn't a matter of lack of manpower, money, or anything like that. And of course it needs to be someone with a good vision of starcraft, a good vision of game design and with the right goals in mind. i never understood why ppl argue that balancing/designing sc2 is rocket science. any small team of ambitioned ppl who understand the game can do it. just look at PoE vs diablo 3 to understand why companies fail. they dont understand their own games. just look me straight in the eye and tell me that you do not think that some of the head honchos in the community like day9, artosis, morrow, etc etc etc could make a better game than lotv without even having the resources. i will tell you you are either lying or stupid. personally, im still convinced even my mod can easily be better than lotv, but thats beside the point since im obviously not objective on the issue thing is: you dont need money. you dont need many ppl. all you need is a bunch of ppl who love the game and understand it. i would much rather play a lotv that was never in DKs hands, let alone builds up on stuff invented by DBs. DB was incompetent. DK is scared of changing stuff. the community has been providing great input all along, but they decided not to listen. its no wonder the community is toxic now and the game is daed now go play heptacraft
I don't agree with you here. It's very different to get a small group of homogeneous hardcore followers to like your idea. Those that don't like it will just go back to play retail sc2. You won't have them whining on your mod forums. You'll mostly hear feedback from those that first liked the idea enough to bother trying the mod, and then liked it enough to continue playing.
It is very different to market it to a wide audience like sc2, and make it enjoyable for everyone from 30 APM first time RTS players, to korean 10-hours-per day professionals, The fact that there is no big competitor in sc2s niche (I don't consider MOBAs similar enough) makes the RTS lovers stay, even if they are not too happy about some aspects of sc2.
So yeah, I have no idea what your mod is, but if we were to replace live sc2 with your mod overnight, I'm convinced there would be a shitstorm of community members raging to get retail sc2 back within 24 hours. I don't think day9 and those guys could pull it off either. I think even a very developed mod like starbow would be quickly picked to pieces by the wider player base if were to replace live sc2.
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On May 04 2016 22:12 wjat wrote:
I play random and in my opinion the Immortal is by far the strongest unit in the game ^^
IMO the best units per cost are: MSC, probe, marine and Queen 
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mcore makes games really boring , since they are invulnerable to basically anything even in mid game..
immortal might be overpowered too , but the main problem i feel as zerg or terran is vs air ..... phoenix completly own early , and mid game..... as a zerg if you see them going phoenix , you know its going to be a very long or short game... all in or take all bases you can... which create a very boring game that is decided with the best death ball , instead protoss have like 10 ways of finishing off you effectively.. while zerg or terran dont , nothing like dt.. or oracles really ,you kind of have to allin if you want to hurt toss if you make corruptors or hydra , they usually have a zealot , adept allin coming up , so you have to go roach hydra and wait all game in your base.. that considering both are at the same lvl...
same for terran , none of them can do enough damage to finish protoss.. as protoss can ,with oracles dts or any of their pushes... which can be recalled back if fail anyway.... so i really dont see any weakness right now for protoss , mutas are really really easy to stop as protoss.. i honestly dont know why people even complained.. you just need a couple of phoenix and maybe 1 archon... and you melt mutas. and the best part is that zerg doesnt have a counter vs carriers or high templars.... broodlords we all know what it means to go broodlords... and SH are long gone from sc2
we all saw what inhuman skill took TY to beat Zest in game 1 finals... but the second game was a cake for zest... thats the resume of toss.. they can finish you instantly in many ways.. while terran and zerg dont really have that power.. unless they REALLY commit (nydus , wm drop etc,,banes) its not comparable to how easy is to win with oracles or DTs.. carriers etc.. at least zerg and terran should also have a way to beat others in seconds if thats the design you want..
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It looks like this balance issues became an infinite loop. Do they think it is too late to do radical changes? I mean they can balance the game in the end with this small weird changes but all the fun will die eventually. I really think bad designed units (tempest,sh,wm,cyclone) & concepts (tankivac, ranged warp prism, invincible nydus) should be removed completely from the game with better replacements. Of course some people can disagree with some of these but in the end these things never liked by the majority of the players and it is definetly much more important issue than the canon's aa damage.
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On May 04 2016 08:18 Fecalfeast wrote:
DK
Second, we can do better on providing a “post-mortem” for our Balance Test Map changes to analyze which changes were effective or not effective. This should also help us keep moving at a similar pace in terms of reasoning.
i'd like a post mortem on the Siege Tank that did 40/60 damage in Siege Mode. was that provided?
On May 04 2016 08:18 Fecalfeast wrote:
DK
Besides the issues we're currently working through, the other issues we're currently thinking on are: potential immortal nerfs due to heavy pro player feedback around this being an absolute necessity, potential colossus buffs, and Cyclone changes.
as per your own suggestion in a previous update: please give a slight buff to the Collossus.. but keep it less powerful than the HotS Collo.
Please find a role for the Cyclone and nerf Terran air and maybe nerf the Hellbat in some way to make up for the more powerful Cyclone. in general i want Terran ground more powerful and Terran air less powerful. The Banshee and Liberator feel gimmicky to me. And there is nothing wrong with winning using gimmicks once and a while.. but not every game. i want to be able to punch a guy directly in the face during some of my Terran games.
Disclaimer: diamond player on all 3 races with ~110 APM. my main is terran.
On May 04 2016 23:14 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 22:48 summerloud wrote:On May 04 2016 20:50 H0i wrote:On May 04 2016 20:05 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On May 04 2016 19:18 CptMarvel wrote:
They've missed their shot at making the game what it should be when they decided to provide no deep design changes along the release of LotV. No patch will ever make up for that.
I agree this community can be toxic and overly negative at times but it's also been providing the very best and most competent feedback I've ever seen.
Blizzard's PR strategy was conceptually fine but hasn't worked out because of how repetitive and uninformative DK's messages have been. The guy is lost, this communication job isn't what he's paid for and he can't be expected to perform it well, I feel sorry enough for him.
The more time passes by, the more I feel like SC2 can't be saved. It's not a bad game (granted not an amazing one either), it's miles above all of the other members of its genre, but real-time strategy won't ever be as popular as we'd like it to be. It's not that hard to understand from a spectator's point of view (especially compared to the graphical/tactical mess that MOBAs can be), it's just too hard to play and get into. The learning curve is way too steep. Blizzard has understood this a few years ago already and they're moving on to a casual philosophy that's serving them well.
So yeah, HotS and Hearthstone will never be as deep and potentially interesting as SC2 or WC3, but anyone can be good at them. That goes an incredibly long way at making them popular. This is so wrong. DK is only lead game dev. He isn't in charge of budgeting and stuff. Also he is not in charge of how many people can actually WORK on LotV at the same time. Since there is no post-release profit. You can't except 50+ developers to working on it. That's why you dont see many deep design changes and stuff. There are simply no human resources on SC2 atm. They did not provide any monotenization?(sry if i missed the work) no voice pack, no skins, no premium features. Devs are ppl, ppl need to pay bills and stuffs. And since WCS wont generate much money(low subscriber count) and almost 95% of viewers got active adblock. You should be okay with band aid changes. Beucase there is simply no budged or Blizzard might not see that BIG potential in SC2 anymore. Do you think it is really so difficult to make deep design changes that it needs a whole team? With the powerful editor sc2 has, one guy can do the job. It's really quite easy. Changing around some number in the editor can be done in minutes and completely changes the game. There are a ton of unit models that can be added to the game instantly coming from the single player campaign if there is the need/desire to create a new unit. It just needs to be someone willing to make big changes to the design. Willing to make leap forwards, instead of backwards. It isn't a matter of lack of manpower, money, or anything like that. And of course it needs to be someone with a good vision of starcraft, a good vision of game design and with the right goals in mind. i never understood why ppl argue that balancing/designing sc2 is rocket science. any small team of ambitioned ppl who understand the game can do it. just look at PoE vs diablo 3 to understand why companies fail. they dont understand their own games. just look me straight in the eye and tell me that you do not think that some of the head honchos in the community like day9, artosis, morrow, etc etc etc could make a better game than lotv without even having the resources. i will tell you you are either lying or stupid. personally, im still convinced even my mod can easily be better than lotv, but thats beside the point since im obviously not objective on the issue thing is: you dont need money. you dont need many ppl. all you need is a bunch of ppl who love the game and understand it. i would much rather play a lotv that was never in DKs hands, let alone builds up on stuff invented by DBs. DB was incompetent. DK is scared of changing stuff. the community has been providing great input all along, but they decided not to listen. its no wonder the community is toxic now and the game is daed now go play heptacraft I don't agree with you here. It's very different to get a small group of homogeneous hardcore followers to like your idea. Those that don't like it will just go back to play retail sc2. You won't have them whining on your mod forums. You'll mostly hear feedback from those that first liked the idea enough to bother trying the mod, and then liked it enough to continue playing. It is very different to market it to a wide audience like sc2, and make it enjoyable for everyone from 30 APM first time RTS players, to korean 10-hours-per day professionals, The fact that there is no big competitor in sc2s niche (I don't consider MOBAs similar enough) makes the RTS lovers stay, even if they are not too happy about some aspects of sc2. So yeah, I have no idea what your mod is, but if we were to replace live sc2 with your mod overnight, I'm convinced there would be a shitstorm of community members raging to get retail sc2 back within 24 hours. I don't think day9 and those guys could pull it off either. I think even a very developed mod like starbow would be quickly picked to pieces by the wider player base if were to replace live sc2.
someone who can see the forest through the trees.
+1 , ya true. good points.
also, the game is not "daed". its slowly declining like many Blizzard games do as they age.
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I feel like we need to set up a Republic or something and elect senators from each race and each playstyle (aka, the mech senator from Minnesota, or the muta/ling/bane senator from Pusan) to more adequately address our local balance issues and playstyle constraints. this is where my campaign starts. elect me to go to Anaheim California and lobby for safe, IdrA-approved, macro game promoting changes. I will also campaign against multiple building selection, and toward the complete removal of Protoss from the game.
PEACE
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
instead protoss have like 10 ways of finishing off you effectively.. while zerg or terran dont
Feels kinda backwards to me for PvZ - In legacy it seems like Z can take 3 hatch with impunity.
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hilarious to see an increasing # posts criticizing the concept of using player feedback from forums.
the forum feedback is "stop taking forum feedback".
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EPT
