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Community Feedback Update - March 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
192 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-01 21:27:16
March 31 2016 18:32 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Source


Hey everyone, we hope you’ve all had a good week and want to thank everyone who helped participate in constructive discussions. After hearing your thoughts we’d like to provide an update to discuss a few topics such as team colors and maps. Let’s dive in.


Specifying Team Colors

This is something that we’ve been exploring internally per our community’s request. The initial solution we were considering was to implement a full-featured UI that allowed each player to set his or her color preference, so that whenever possible we can give the customized color. However, we soon recognized that it would be very difficult to guarantee all color preferences in team games and would feel very random in the cases where color preferences are not met.

The solution we’re currently thinking of instead is to allow customization on the option that has preset colors. Currently, the defaults are: Green for a player, Yellow for the player’s allies, and Red for all enemies. By customizing these 3 categories of colors, players would have a clean and simple solution compared to the more complex options.

So the main discussion we should be having on this front is: is the above proposal the best overall solution we can have in this area? If so, we can start working on this task. If not, let’s get discussions going on the best solution, so that we can work towards implementing it in the future.


Zerg Attack Reticle

We saw a post yesterday by aeJupiter about the Zerg attack reticle being incorrect. This post was exceptionally well-presented, and was also very helpful as the reticle’s appearance is indeed a bug! We’ll be looking to fix the reticle in an upcoming patch, thanks so much for pointing this out.


Map Diversity

We noticed the posts regarding having to only use standard maps due to everyone only liking standard maps. We had two points of discussion after reading through these conclusions. First, out of top maps, the ones voted as the 1st place map, the 3rd place map, and the 4th place map don’t seem like standard maps to us, so the conclusions some people have drawn to say that everyone only likes standard maps seems to be inaccurate. Second, we don’t understand how having 4+ similar maps in the ladder or tournaments can be a good thing. Due to the veto system in both official and automated tournaments, we’ve seen that if we go with only a few maps that are different, in some cases they might be vetoed out in every game except for the BO7 finals matches.

We’ve been at that spot in the past before and have clearly seen how stale the game can become if every tournament game plays identically with the same strategy and same timings available on every map. We’re not saying every single tournament out there should have a diverse map pool, and having a couple tournaments here and there that use more standard maps could be a fun difference.

We’re also very excited to see how the old maps turn out in Proleague season 2, and this is something we have been discussing with Kespa. While the HotS maps may have been “standard” in HotS, they have a big potential to create completely different types of games in LotV due to how much the game has changed. We’re very excited to see what types of games they create in LotV. Obviously, if an older map archetype does turn out to be super exciting, we can include maps like these as well on the ladder.

We really wanted to make this point super clear. Our stance is not that standard maps are bad and every map has to be new and different. We’re more than happy to use map archetypes that have been used in the past as long as each of the 7 maps on the ladder is of a different type. The main reason we explore new map types is to locate potentially cool maps that we haven’t encountered before. For example, Dusk Towers seems to be one of the more favorites out there right now, and this type of not-completely-standard macro map would not have been possible if we just stuck to the same, one formula when making new maps.

With that said though, we clearly hear your feedback on maybe we’re pushing the new map types harder than we should right now. Therefore, we’d like to get discussions going on two fronts here: First is to determine on a case by case basis what balance changes are needed on the new maps. Second is regarding Korhal Carnage Knockout and strategies feeling a bit one sided here. If this turns out to be the case, we would like to rotate this out asap. The main goal here would be to look at the 6 maps currently in the map pool, and choose a map that plays very differently from the 6. We would want to go with a map that is already fully arted and QA tested, so one of the HotS maps that proleague is using could be an option here as well.

Taking a step back from everything - we believe it has been incredibly valuable to integrate the most dedicated, smart, and passionate community members into this game’s design process over the past year or so, and we want to continue doing this. There’s no need to become dejected by a decision and discuss how “every map is so bad + and the game is ruined”. Please remember that even if the SC2 community is discussing a massive change like “removing a map”, the SC2 design team is open to listening. Let’s all work as one team and think constructively so we can continue making calls that are best for the game.

Thanks everyone.



Call to Action: March 31 Balance Testing


We’ve published a new Balance Test Map titled “(4)RuinsofSeras (3.1.4 Balance v1.1)” which contains the following changes that we’d like your feedback on:

  • Thor’s anti-air attack has been reworked:
    • Now deals single-target damage.
    • Deals 50 damage every 2 seconds.
    • 1 attack per hit.
    • The Thor’s model has been changed to reflect its new attack.

  • Banshee’s Hyperflight Rotors has changed:
    • Requirement changed from Fusion Core to Armory
    • Cost reduced from 200/200 to 100/100

  • Liberator’s Defender Mode radius decreased from 5 to 4.
  • Ravager Corrosive Bile cooldown increased from 7 to 10 seconds.


We encourage you to head on into the Balance Test Map to test these changes out! To do so, simply click this link if you have StarCraft II installed. To find it manually instead, enter Multiplayer and navigate to Custom. The Balance Test Map will be at the top of the list under ‘Top Played.’

We’ve also updated the Extension Mod for balance testing, so that you can play around with these changes on a variety of maps. Those of you who are interested in trying out the Extension Mod can do the following to get started:

  • Navigate to Browse Maps on the Custom Games menu
  • Select a map and click the Create with Mod button in the lower right corner
  • Choose to sort by Blizzard Mods from the dropdown list at the top of the screen
  • Select the “Balance Test Mod” Extension from the list and then hit Create Game
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Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
coolmiyo
Profile Joined February 2016
51 Posts
March 31 2016 18:34 GMT
#2
wtf is this, patch the game bastard!

User was temp banned for this post.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-31 18:39:01
March 31 2016 18:36 GMT
#3
If Blizzard does in fact rotate out maps that prove to be extremely problematic asap that's pretty good, but they haven't ever done so in the past, so I'm not terribly hopeful.

Realistically no matter how good your map selection process is, if you select experimental maps there will be failures, so replacing bad maps mid-season is an absolute necessity.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55594 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-31 18:42:25
March 31 2016 18:38 GMT
#4
Please do the colors thing :O

On April 01 2016 03:36 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
If Blizzard does in fact rotate out maps that prove to be extremely problematic asap that's pretty good, but they haven't ever done so in the past, so I'm not terribly hopeful.

Realistically no matter how good your map selection process is, if you select experimental maps there will be failures, so replacing bad maps mid-season is an absolute necessity.

Exactly how I see it.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
pzlama333
Profile Joined April 2013
United States282 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-31 21:41:07
March 31 2016 18:41 GMT
#5
If all three races like a map, and the stats show all three races have close to 50:50 win ratio, then this map is good and well balanced.
If one race likes a map but another race do not like it, and stats show one race has much higher win ratio then another in this map, then this map may not be balanced.
If all three races do not like a map and think it is hard to play, but the stats show all three races have 50:50 win ratio in this map, is this map balanced?

royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
March 31 2016 18:42 GMT
#6
I hope they add more maps instead of taking rotating current ones out on ladder and give more map vetos. Sometimes I like a little insanity.
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55594 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-31 18:43:25
March 31 2016 18:43 GMT
#7
On April 01 2016 03:41 pzlama333 wrote:
If all three races do not like a map and think it is hard to play, is this map balanced?

I think this would depend on the different reasons each race dislikes the map for.

No word on Invader cross spawns is driving me crazy.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
SlammerSC2
Profile Joined April 2013
77 Posts
March 31 2016 18:45 GMT
#8
No balance changes?????
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-31 18:47:40
March 31 2016 18:46 GMT
#9
Let players figure out the game first. How are you supposed to evaluate balance correctly if the maps are an even bigger factor? And balance should be the main concern right now, the game is still being figured out and refined.
Who knows if Ravager/Queen (for example) is actually broken or if it's just these maps making it ridiculous? You need to actually have a solid idea of how the game works before putting twists on it through maps or balance changes. But players having to figure out everything at once will leave you with very little reliable data to make good changes.

And, in my personal experience, it really isn't fun to play either. I'd much rather take some time and figure things out on 'standard' maps first, to get a grip on everything, and THEN I'll dive into different maps and see how things play out there. But that takes time and there hasn't been enough of it yet. We've only had 2-3 reasonable maps on ladder since release.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
March 31 2016 18:46 GMT
#10
Yay colours.

I hope they'll add Overgrowth or KSS to ladder.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55594 Posts
March 31 2016 18:47 GMT
#11
On April 01 2016 03:45 SlammerSC2 wrote:
No balance changes?????
Thanks everyone. Part two of this weekly update will be coming tomorrow to discuss a few extra topics some of which are personally very important to me.

I'd assume that's when those come in.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
March 31 2016 18:48 GMT
#12
Where is this reticle article?
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55594 Posts
March 31 2016 18:49 GMT
#13
On April 01 2016 03:46 Ansibled wrote:
Yay colours.

Indeed. Finally I'll be able to play in good colors on ladder.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
March 31 2016 18:51 GMT
#14
On April 01 2016 03:48 Hier wrote:
Where is this reticle article?

"Article"

[image loading]
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
billynasty
Profile Joined October 2014
United States260 Posts
March 31 2016 18:51 GMT
#15
i really hope this isnt just talk from blizzard & they are serious about rotating out a map or 2. A compromise would be if we had perhaps 3 somewhat standard maps & then the rest can be "CreativeTM" if they want.
i dont miss God but i sure miss Santa Claus
Sogetsu
Profile Joined July 2011
514 Posts
March 31 2016 18:55 GMT
#16
Wait, what about the team colours? Wasn't that option there since... WOL? I mean, you see yourself green, then yellow your allies and finally all the enemies in red. I almost never play team but I remember looking at that with the option near the minimap and saying "Damn, I see the 3 enemies as red so I don't know who is who"

The only change is to make some presets for the optiont that has always been there... it changes nothing, dafuq with this?
Raptor: "Es hora de salvar a los E-Sports..." http://i3.minus.com/ibtne3liprtByB.png
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55594 Posts
March 31 2016 18:58 GMT
#17
On April 01 2016 03:55 Sogetsu wrote:
it changes nothing, dafuq with this?

It will mean you can, after 5 years, play 1v1 ladder in different colors than red, blue and green. And it won't even affect your opponent.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10868 Posts
March 31 2016 18:59 GMT
#18
The maps are terrible in my opinion, I really hope they get a good map design team, Fighting Spirit please.... T_T
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Silvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
3713 Posts
March 31 2016 19:00 GMT
#19
They didn't address the posts that basically said something along the lines of

standard maps allow for play diversity, because players can explore styles and be creative; in contrast, current "creative" maps (current map pool) force players to play one strategy for every matchup, and thus creating a stagnant meta


I don't play ladder but this seems to have much sense. Do you guys agree with that statement or is it complete bs?? (This situation reminds me to tankivacs in TvT btw)
Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
March 31 2016 19:03 GMT
#20
Glad to see this update, maps imba per matchup constantly vetoed out of tournaments until the very grand finals is a bad thing. (obviously)
Second, we don’t understand how having 4+ similar maps in the ladder or tournaments can be a good thing

Agree with the above. But it's important to emphasize that when people want more 'standard' maps, at least personally (I think examples are best to explain this):

We're not talking about close to no variety such as 4x Overgrowth or 4x Daybreak, it's more like ... King Sejong, Coda, Polar Night and Whirlwind - instead of Korhal Carnage/Secret Spring/Inferno Pools/Deadalus Point. Standard-ish maps can be very different and still have unique quirks and midfields, Polar Night and King Sejong are great examples of this.

While the HotS maps may have been “standard” in HotS, they have a big potential to create completely different types of games in LotV due to how much the game has changed. We’re very excited to see what types of games they create in LotV. Obviously, if an older map archetype does turn out to be super exciting, we can include maps like these as well on the ladder.

^ This is the best part of this community feedback update to me and I think this sets a very positive tone for the future
Team Liquid
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