EPTYou can add in more Mech to it by having more Mech units that are able to support Bio, but it's still Bio with Mech support and not Bio/Mech. The same goes for the opposite end of Mech with Bio support, which is just Mech with ghost support. No one really calls that Bio/Mech because they know it's primarily Mech with ghost as a support unit, bio tank is the inverse example of that. True Bio/Mech can't happen unless they merge the upgrades of Bio and Mech in some form, which I surmise they're unwilling to do due to the level of difficulty to balance it properly.
Community Feedback Update - March 8 - Page 6
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RavingRaver
Canada57 Posts
You can add in more Mech to it by having more Mech units that are able to support Bio, but it's still Bio with Mech support and not Bio/Mech. The same goes for the opposite end of Mech with Bio support, which is just Mech with ghost support. No one really calls that Bio/Mech because they know it's primarily Mech with ghost as a support unit, bio tank is the inverse example of that. True Bio/Mech can't happen unless they merge the upgrades of Bio and Mech in some form, which I surmise they're unwilling to do due to the level of difficulty to balance it properly. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On March 09 2016 14:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote: if he does come back it'll be to work on a multi-billion dollar franchise. Starcraft hasn't hit 1 billion in revenue yet and its 18 years old. Just out of curiosity do you know what franchise hit 1 billion in revenue, where he could possibly work, he obviously won't go working on COD, Fifa, or Mario. I don't know very well the number of the video game industry (and google just seem to give me random number) | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16378 Posts
pretty sure the only ATVI franchise in their "big hit list" with no chance of hitting a billion is Starcraft. http://investor.activision.com/ Destiny and Hearthstone are both headed over a billion. here is a quote from kotick a year after both were released. “We expanded our franchise portfolio by launching two of the industry’s most successful new brands, Blizzard’s Hearthstone®: Heroes of Warcraft™, and the biggest new IP launch in industry history, Destiny®. Combined, these franchises attracted over 40 million registered players worldwide and generated more than $850 million in non‐GAAP revenue. This year, we expect to expand our franchise portfolio to 10 blockbusters, up from five franchises at the beginning of 2014. Our amazingly talented teams will continue to produce the world’s best content for gamers.” | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On March 09 2016 14:28 JimmyJRaynor wrote: there are lots of billion dollar franchises out there. i have no idea what turns Pardo's crank from a creative perspective, therefore, i can't rule out the Mario franchise. how can u? pretty sure the only ATVI franchise in their "big hit list" with no chance of hitting a billion is Starcraft. http://investor.activision.com/ Destiny and Hearthstone are both headed over a billion. here is a quote from kotick a year after both were released. “We expanded our franchise portfolio by launching two of the industry’s most successful new brands, Blizzard’s Hearthstone®: Heroes of Warcraft™, and the biggest new IP launch in industry history, Destiny®. Combined, these franchises attracted over 40 million registered players worldwide and generated more than $850 million in non‐GAAP revenue. This year, we expect to expand our franchise portfolio to 10 blockbusters, up from five franchises at the beginning of 2014. Our amazingly talented teams will continue to produce the world’s best content for gamers.” Thanks, I was ruling out Mario not because I assume that he did not want to make those kind of game but because Nintendo dosen't seem very interested in reaching out to big develloper outside of Japan most of all on their biggest franchise, but hey I guess everything can happen. Same thing for Fifa (who probably don't really care about big star develloper they don't need them anyway) and Cod because he just left the company. | ||
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Lightrush
Bulgaria164 Posts
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On March 09 2016 11:04 Superbanana wrote: The community is filled with specialists in game design, lots of people criticize game design which is fair but if you look at the proposed fixes and try to find what the community think is the issue, its really all over the place and makes no sense at all. I don't think the game needs another big redesign, its better than it ever was imo. All that talk about making SC2 popular yada yada, its extremely unlikely, of course, in theory it could happen, but nobody comes up with a solution. Since that is the case, it sounds like "hey blizzard, make SC2 more fun and extremely popular, but make sure its also competitive and have a higher skill ceilling. Do it somehow, k thx bye." At this point, when i read, "blizzard should listen the community", i know it means "blizzard should hire me as lead game designer". It does bother me that they are so slow and insecure about changes, but for once, im completely satified if they just implement all that they proposed already. edit: btw, i completely agree about the maps. Last time they talked about it was a big let down for me. I have learned game design myself, and have done it as a hobby for many years. But how good any of us are at game design doesnt matter. It doesn't take an expert to be able to tell BAD design. Not just from a game design perspective, but also from the perspective of any sort of designer (software designer, or hell any sort of artistic designer), as well as from the perspective of a project leader. It's plain as day they have bad design in many areas, and you can use their own words for god sake. They literally said in a community update in the past that they had to choose whether they wanted to chase the best design, and they chose AGAINST it. Let me repeat that - one of the lead DESIGNERS in a community update, stated that they chose against the best DESIGN. If a DESIGNERS not giving us the best DESIGN, how could they even claim to do their damn job? Also, do you really think the problem with the game prior to LotV was that the skill ceiling needed to be higher? The best players in the world were still able to easily prove themselves. The problems were the design then too, not the skill ceilling. When you read Blizzard should listen to the community, you should actually read that as, "dont alienate the community". I could give a damn if they hire me as a designer, I just want them to hire someone who will do their damn job. As a software developer myself, a designer who chooses not to give us the best design, and who can't even make a solid decision on his own with design decisions, is NOT doing their damn job. As someone defending them, even you can see their insecure about their changes. That's not the type of people we need leading the development team. Your not even really a leader if you can't make a decision. It's a lead designers job to have vision - something these people don't have. I've told the story a few times on here before giving examples (in much more detail than I am now), of how in software design there's transition phases when you work towards an improved final product. Theres times where users of the software won't be happy, and won't understand why things are how they are. If you ask for feedback in those situations, of COURSE its going to be negative. And that's okay! Becuase feedback in this situation is meant not to tell if people are HAPPY or not, it's meant to let you know if the changes are accomplishing their intended purpose. It's the designers job to make sure these transition phases end up with happier users in the end. They must have a vision of where their going with these changes, and that once the users see the changes, it will all make sense in the end. But what would happen if you were in one of those transition phases, people give negative feedback, and then you decide to stop moving in that direction?? What would be the result?? The result would be that the SOFTWARE WOULD NEVER IMPROVE! This happens more than you would think in small businesses... So you can say the community doesn't know how to fix the game, go for it. But I can damn sure say their team leaders are not showing any leadership qualities, are making horrible design decisions (even by their own admission) and damn sure shouldn't be in charge of the game. | ||
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MiCroLiFe
Norway264 Posts
On March 09 2016 08:40 Obsi wrote: Nothing about PvT? :/ Seems pretty one-sided in the recent past imo. Liberators 2-shotting pretty much everything while Protoss doesnt have any good reliable AoE anymore NOR good anti air to effectively deal with liberators feels pretty bad. I agreed with taking the damage off of Adepts and giving them the attack speed upgrade, but that doesn't equalize the mid/lategame gap between Terran and Protoss that has now occured, since Protoss' are no longer going into the midgame with an advantage because of the pretty much gone threat of adepts. Especially since WM drops have gotten back into the meta, again most likely because the threat of an insta death to an early warpprism adept drop is gone. Since anything other than observers is terrible, unreliable detection, Protoss' pretty much have to open with an early robo while also getting some kind of tech against liberators. And most of that just straight up suck against a stimmed bio ball thath you will have to deal with just a few minutes/moments later. Maybe at least giving Colossus +2 per upgrade back would be a help to get some reliability back in. If the liberator range decrease will also be enough.. we'll see I guess. are you drunk? i got 30% winrate tvp, and many other terrans does to. a protoss can do an fast oracle, warp prism haras, or disrutpor harass, or dark templar harass while they are takin third at 4 minutes and there is nothing a terran can do to punish it. even if you stop it perfectly there is 5 pylons at the third so you will not do anything. i have to make 3 rak every game and turrets and deffend and cant take a third, while toss can. im never ahead in any tvp games. the games i win i simply outskill the protoss whit macro/micro placement. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
Have we evolved into a better state? The same core units every game, plus some support units at your choosing, is what most races in every RTS are about (see Protoss). Having the option to use different core units with the same race (Terran and Zerg), is something rather unique to Starcraft, and what made Terran such a special race in all RTS in general. So, reverting to a "normal" RTS design is not evolution IMO, it's loosing something special that Starcraft introduced. It also makes Protoss and Terran function in much the same way, loosing some race diversity and identity. | ||
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Deleted User 329278
123 Posts
Everybody wants something different and with 3 races it's impossible to perfectly satisfy everybody's requests. Stop bitching too much about game details only because they mean the world to you. Blizzards approach to observe the big tournaments and dividing into korean/non-korean scene and games being played recently/shortly after release is the right way imo. Also I like that they take their time before big nerfs and buffs. | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On March 09 2016 09:22 Charoisaur wrote: Yes.For the three good roach ravager games I can point out way way way more for ling bane muta. Does that mean we should kill roach ravager? Even if one playstyle doesn't produce as many good games on average as another one it's still important to keep multiple styles viable for diversity. Bio is fun yes but that doesn't mean that every game ever should be bio. Please do. It's a shit playstyle it's not fun to play it's not fun to watch. Do you like playing against it? Why should we keep it? Because it's easier at low level? Zerg is already the easiest race to play on low level. | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On March 09 2016 18:39 inken wrote: Wow so much moaning, seriously? I'm one of the biggest balance whiners myself, but isn't David trying really hard to please the scene? Everybody wants something different and with 3 races it's impossible to perfectly satisfy everybody's requests. Stop bitching too much about game details only because they mean the world to you. Blizzards approach to observe the big tournaments and dividing into korean/non-korean scene and games being played recently/shortly after release is the right way imo. Also I like that they take their time before big nerfs and buffs. Pointless feedback thread is irking people. Has barely any info last one didn't cept for the fuck mech part Not that I mind fucking mech up the ass since it's always gonna be turtle but It's not exactly a position blizz can take after going on and on about how they will introduce changes to make it 1) playable 2) not cancerous They just realised that's really fucking hard to do without redesigning the whole game and went ah fuck that shit | ||
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coolmiyo
51 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Liox
Germany47 Posts
Thank you for the effort you're putting into this product @BlizzardDevelopmentTeam!  | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15867 Posts
On March 09 2016 19:20 Liox wrote: I really like the idea of focusing terran on a more mixed-up bio-mech state for late game compositions. It lowers the "spamming" of bio units (seriously, any terran out there who has not found himself/herself once in a while spamming the baracks hotkeys in the lategame while totally ignoring Factory-Units before LotV?) and allows more diversity in what the army can do. I really like the LotV design direction for this part. Thank you for the effort you're putting into this product @BlizzardDevelopmentTeam! Except Bio-mech will never be a thing with the way terran upgrades and production work. It will just be 90% bio with some factory units sprinkled in. | ||
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rls
6 Posts
I'd really like to see the supportive role of mech units to get extended, probably the Thor and the Cyclone are indeed the best places to start with. At the same times a unit like the raven could probably made be more interesting aswell after the LotV nerfs just by revisiting the upgrades and changing the current ones into some that are more meaningful, especially lategame. Bio-Mech is a direction that feels really fun to watch and play overall! | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On March 09 2016 18:43 HellHound wrote: Pointless feedback thread is irking people. Has barely any info last one didn't cept for the fuck mech part Not that I mind fucking mech up the ass since it's always gonna be turtle but It's not exactly a position blizz can take after going on and on about how they will introduce changes to make it 1) playable 2) not cancerous They just realised that's really fucking hard to do without redesigning the whole game and went ah fuck that shit Thank for adding cyclone. | ||
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PressureSC2
122 Posts
On March 09 2016 13:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote: too lazy? not enough cash on the table to warrant the extended effort to finely tune and craft the game post release. when SC1 came out Blizz made 1 game at a time and every game was a 10/10 game. the top geniuses hand crafted every aspect of the game play experience. now we've got 6 teams working concurrently and the top geniuses are 1 management layer away from the ground level work. so we're getting a bunch of 9.5/10 games. other than Heroes they're all selling very, very, very well. Pardo is a 10/10 game designer who can turn anything into a mega money maker. He is so good he makes it look easy. David Kim is a 9.5/10 game designer. ATVI can't afford Pardo. He only works on multi-billion dollar stuff... not this nickel and dime RTS trivia. SC2 has been and will continue to be a really good game with lots of really cool and fun stuff to do in the BNet2 environment. But, the core game play experience won't be quite as good as Brood War or Warcraft 3. Rob Pardo is a mega-genius, but many people on here think making an RTS game is easy. it ain't. and there is no way ATVI will ever consider putting their #1 guy on an RTS game. I am sadly realizing that this is the truth. | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On March 09 2016 19:25 Charoisaur wrote: Except Bio-mech will never be a thing with the way terran upgrades and production work. It will just be 90% bio with some factory units sprinkled in. That's not exactly true a much bigger factor is the intial production investment The reason it's not a thing is because of the construction set up on it's own bio need stim combat shield attack upgrades a solid number of medivacs reactors aside from the medivacs (which can be kept alive for long time) everything else takes a huge intial gas investment Each factory costs 100 gas but you always want some addon on it which also costs gas the armory costs way too much gas too Much bigger cost than the 100 ish gas an attack upgrade costs And even then it's not that much better than a MMM army | ||
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). If they are dropped sieged and have siege time delay, some visual indicator should be good though. 
