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On February 27 2016 05:42 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2016 05:38 Penev wrote:
So the liberator nerf is of the table? Damn I dislike this multi purpose unit. Especially when combined with tanks. :/ Well, they were only going to nerf the initial range anyway. Considering how strong the unit would still be (especially after the range upgrade) and that the ravager nerf isn't supposed to affect ZvT anymore I think it's fine to not change the range. Might wanna change the other stats instead...
The nerf would make it at least a little less multi purpose as it would make it less of a banshee/ harass unit..
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I really don't get why people are so disgusted by mech play though... Harassing with hellions and banshees while slowly expanding and securing your expos with tanks and even mixing it with some ghosts or cyclones/mines !! Why is it that terrible and awful to watch compared to marine + tankivacs drop ??
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On February 27 2016 10:05 MaxTa wrote:
I really don't get why people are so disgusted by mech play though... Harassing with hellions and banshees while slowly expanding and securing your expos with tanks and even mixing it with some ghosts or cyclones/mines !! Why is it that terrible and awful to watch compared to marine + tankivacs drop ??
most games you'll play the mech players will make 50 turrets and 10 pf. 90% of the mech players on the ladder are just wanna be Goody. At the highest level it could be decent if it's not an air rush due to the liberator being way stronger than mech aa.
And it's funny that people keep mentionning doom drop when it's clearly not a problem in pro games (and most of the doom dropping taking place doesn't have tankivacs but siege tanks in medivacs because you want to carry over marines too).
People talking about doom drop and lack of positionning need to realize that those were huge problems in hots marine tank mirrors and the cause is the medivac boost, not the tankivac or something else. The ability to fly over your army in the main base of your opponent regardless of the presence of those 3 turrets is entirely due to the boost. The boost that killed the ability of an MMA or Gumiho to be a drop god by allowing everyone else to do it.
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I really don't get why people are so disgusted by mech play though... Harassing with hellions and banshees while slowly expanding and securing your expos with tanks and even mixing it with some ghosts or cyclones/mines !! Why is it that terrible and awful to watch compared to marine + tankivacs drop ??
ANSWER: Because it's too hard to control 2-3 control groups in different locations at the same time and I'd rather scan and A-move boost into my opponent's base !!! LOL !
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But seriously players massing turrets and planetary everywhere without thinking are wasting so many ressources !! When you see this you can simply out expand them right away and get ahead in tech and army size...
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Maybe some maps will allow it and favor some kind of really turtle play but then thats really because of the map design like dusk towers ^^
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feels like a classic blizz bait and switch move with announcing the tank buffs then saying nah.
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OMG, is this feedback update really real? So sad 
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On February 27 2016 10:05 MaxTa wrote:
I really don't get why people are so disgusted by mech play though... Harassing with hellions and banshees while slowly expanding and securing your expos with tanks and even mixing it with some ghosts or cyclones/mines !! Why is it that terrible and awful to watch compared to marine + tankivacs drop ??
Answer: because zergs and protoss want to play vs the same army composition every game so they don't have to adapt their playstyle to their opponent
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Reading community updates like this puts my mind at rest that I made a correct decision 5 years ago to never touch Sc2 again. The decadence is even more apparent when every single community feedback has to open with paragraphs about feedback having to be presented on a velour cushion (we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings), and the frequency of the word "cool" seems to rise in each issue.
You are getting PAID to develop what should have been the best RTS in the world. Why in god's name should and would internet feedback (that you don't even listen to anyway) be allowed to have such an effect on team morale??
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On February 27 2016 08:17 Big J wrote:
I don't know David Kim, but what I'm reading is that half of the players defending the tankivac start their posts with "I'm only watching the game". There is a basic understanding issue, a balanced SC2 will always produce great games, the skill level is way too high not to. Even an imbalanced SC2 produces great games on the highest level. But viewers that have no clue about the game and should have no saying then use those games to justify the state of the game. Those games would happen with or without the tankivac.
On the other hand I tune into Nathanias stream for 5 seconds and I hear him complain about him winning by dropping his tankivacs first. Dunno, but the main argument I read from the actual players in favor of the tankivac are balance-concerns, mainly in ZvT, not how incredible fun TvT with tankivacs is.
This.
And Terran pros need tankivac to perform in all 3 matchups in the next 3 tourneys, stay on their contracts, and make the car/appartment payment. They are not going to speak just to TvT issues.
Why would any GSL code S pro have agreed in HOTS that the solution was to nerf Hellbats? Think about it. But we all know the gameplay in TvT was nonsense.
I think that pro KR feedback should come from the devs observing the actual games not sitting down to listen to KR pros.
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What I'm getting is that Siege Tanks aren't going to be viable while they have so many hard counters that Terran can't effectively combat.
The proposed damage buff always seemed sketchy to me.
One problem with tanks is that they've just never been very cost effective vs Protoss mid-game. It's worth noting that the way Explosive damage worked in BW, Siege Tanks were more effective against Protoss than other races. That's why Dragoons died in only 3 hits despite having 180 effective HP, while at the same time Zerglings could still be strong against tank lines. Addressing the former with a straight damage buff is concerning, units that weren't even that good against tanks to begin with get crapped on harder by the extra splash damage. Make no mistake, you're talking about making SC2 tanks significantly stronger against low-tech units than even BW tanks were. No overkill, favorable splash origin, tighter unit clumping and now higher damage as well. How is that not the final death knell for ling/bling? It's a hamhanded solution. There has to be a better way.
e. Oh and SC2 Siege Tanks fire faster too 
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Reading community updates like this puts my mind at rest that I made a correct decision 5 years ago to never touch Sc2 again. The decadence is even more apparent when every single community feedback has to open with paragraphs about feedback having to be presented on a velour cushion (we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings), and the frequency of the word "cool" seems to rise in each issue.
You are getting PAID to develop what should have been the best RTS in the world. Why in god's name should and would internet feedback (that you don't even listen to anyway) be allowed to have such an effect on team morale??
Because this is the world we live in now bro it's called 21st century...
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On February 27 2016 10:36 MasterCynical wrote:
feels like a classic blizz bait and switch move with announcing the tank buffs then saying nah.
Blizzard post sales support is terrible. I think i'll go back to playing the F2P RTS Victory Games made and was published by EA.
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So, let me get this right.
Based on this update, to truly keep up and "field a good mix of Bio/Mech" style of Terran instead of going Bio, I'm making two EB plus two armories and getting fifteen upgrades for 3-3 on all my production like toss/zerg?
Really? Will all Terran upgrade costs and EB/Armory costs be halved so we can push this 200/200 fielded mix of Terran into Toss/Zerg and remax at 3-3 like they do?
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On February 27 2016 11:34 PressureSC2 wrote:
So, let me get this right.
Based on this update, to truly keep up and "field a good mix of Bio/Mech" style of Terran instead of going Bio, I'm making two EB plus two armories and getting fifteen upgrades for 3-3 on all my production like toss/zerg?
Really? Will all Terran upgrade costs and EB/Armory costs be halved so we can push this 200/200 fielded mix of Terran into Toss/Zerg and remax at 3-3 like they do?
actually all races have same amount of upgrades. protoss have their armor and shield armor seperated, zerg have their ranged and melee seperated.
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I expected the kind of KR feedback. The mobility has made the tank an effective tool in LOTV's midgame armies: Ravager based comps, Adept-centric comps. There isn't a healthy exchange to totally change mobility for power. The battles are too spread and the 2base attacks are flexible.
I do mourn mech viability in TvT. I don't think we can bring that back at this state of balance without hurting Terran's other matchups.
I'm glad, given the extent of the proposed changes, that Blizzard is taking their time with testing. It doesn't help anyone overnerfing the siege tank and hurriedly buffing something else mid-tournament.
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Flying tanks. Flying tanks.
Flying tanks?
do you see whats wrong there?
tanks... that fly?
cmon man
No need to get into stats & numbers & all that jazz, its the design i take issue with.
tanks that fly?
cmon man
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I can't help but think that these types of changes should've been done in LotV beta instead of rushing out the final product in time for christmas. Really saddened that the siege tank of all units is in this dire state now.
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LOTV has a lot of potential, but if they keep introducing changes so slowly it's gonna take a thousand patches to finish the game. There are so many major flaws they still haven't stared at...
-Protoss has not the necesary mobility to defend in the late game
-Some units are almost useless because they have been widely replaced: zealots, banshees or swarm hosts are clear examples.
-The liberator is completely OP, and is the main reason why Ts are winning games despite if they made a lot of mistakes during the game. In TvP, Ts send liberators to harras and they don't mind to lose them because it still worths, Ts even don't make any effort to keep them alive. This is ridiculous and unnatural to the spirit and gameplay of SC.
-No need to mention lurkers or ravager early pushes.
-Cyclone is barely useless...
And much more, I wonder if it worths to play a game which is going to change so much in the next year.
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EPT
