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Community Feedback Update - February 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
430 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 20 21 22 Next All
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28393 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-18 21:33:36
February 18 2016 19:11 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Source

Balance

Thanks for your feedback across the board and for your ideas on what to test next on the Balance Test Map. While we’re not sure that there are clear issues in these areas so far, we do see merit in getting some more potential changes tested soon in case a balance update is needed. Like we’ve been doing since the release of LotV, we want to be more aggressive in testing out various changes so that we can act quicker when problems actually arise. We would like to remind you once again not to panic however, because these changes are not necessarily even close to final for an actual balance patch to the game. We just want to work with everyone to test and learn about the effects of various changes before making final decisions.

With that said – let’s examine some of the changes we’d like to experiment with in an upcoming Balance Test Map.

Ravager Corrosive bile damage changed from 60 to 45 +15 bio

This is the first proposed change. This was the best suggestion we saw this week from the community, and we agree completely that it could be a good change for a few reasons.

  • In ZvP, this type of change will definitely help Protoss against early/mid Ravager pushes while on defense.
  • In ZvT, with the Ravager shots nerfed heavily against mechanical units like Siege Tanks, we may be able to try out the Siege Tank Siege mode pick up removal.
  • In ZvZ, there will be no change to the unit, which is great since we want to continue to see a variety of units in the matchup.


Liberator ability range down by 1, but give it back with the upgrade

This change was included mostly due to the ZvT case. The biggest issue we see of making the Ravager change in this matchup is the strength of Liberators. We hope that a change such as this one will help Zerg deal with early Liberators with Spore Crawlers or Queens, until they get the proper defenses out.

Medivacs can’t pick up Siege Tanks in Siege Mode

Although sieged pickup has increased micro and early aggression, as many of you point out, removing this ability seems good for three reasons:

  • This ability takes away from the cool factor of Siege Tanks having a clear weakness vs. strength compared to other units in the game.
  • The advantages/disadvantages of mech vs. bio is lessened due to this change
  • This change will give us some room to increase the damage of Siege Tanks, which we agree could have positive effects in terms of Siege Tanks really fulling their fantasy.


Currently in the game, Terran bio-play can have the fire power of Siege Tanks without sacrificing mobility. This seems to be a main reason to play bio instead of mech. By removing this ability, and giving more strength to the Siege Tank, we wonder if we can have this clear distinction between the two playstyles appear once again.

Siege Tank damage increased from 35 (50 vs. armored) to 40 (60 vs. armored)

We wanted to locate numbers that would specifically buff the Siege Tank heavily vs. certain units and not others. For example:

  • Siege Tanks’ relationship against Marines won’t be changed too significantly, but Marauders that just used Stim Pack to close in on Tanks will be heavily nerfed by this change.
  • Roaches won’t be affected as heavily, but the number of shots it takes to kill Ravagers is changed from 4 to 3.
  • Against Protoss, this will change the Siege Tanks’ relationship against most ground units, but we wonder if this is a good thing since Protoss is the most resistant to Siege Tank attacks already.


What’s Next?

Please remember that we just started playtesting these specific numbers this week internally, so feedback regarding both the high level direction of these changes as well as specific number suggestions will definitely be good to get everyone’s thoughts on. Also, please note that none of these changes are final and there’s no need to overreact. Let’s work towards having the best set of changes for the next Balance Test Map!



Poll: Ravager Corrosive bile damage changed from 60 to 45 +15 bio

Good Change (465)
 
77%

Bad Change (69)
 
11%

No Change Needed (40)
 
7%

Wrong Change (31)
 
5%

605 total votes

Your vote: Ravager Corrosive bile damage changed from 60 to 45 +15 bio

(Vote): Good Change
(Vote): Bad Change
(Vote): Wrong Change
(Vote): No Change Needed


Poll: Liberator ability range down by 1, but give it back with the upgrade

Good Change (387)
 
66%

No Change Needed (106)
 
18%

Wrong Change (54)
 
9%

Bad Change (43)
 
7%

590 total votes

Your vote: Liberator ability range down by 1, but give it back with the upgrade

(Vote): Good Change
(Vote): Bad Change
(Vote): Wrong Change
(Vote): No Change Needed


Poll: Medivacs can’t pick up Siege Tanks in Siege Mode

Good Change (403)
 
63%

Wrong Change (106)
 
17%

Bad Change (85)
 
13%

No Change Needed (46)
 
7%

640 total votes

Your vote: Medivacs can’t pick up Siege Tanks in Siege Mode

(Vote): Good Change
(Vote): Bad Change
(Vote): Wrong Change
(Vote): No Change Needed


Poll: Siege Tank damage increased from 35 (50 vs. armored) to 40 (60 vs. arm

Good Change (412)
 
69%

Bad Change (114)
 
19%

Wrong Change (37)
 
6%

No Change Needed (37)
 
6%

600 total votes

Your vote: Siege Tank damage increased from 35 (50 vs. armored) to 40 (60 vs. arm

(Vote): Good Change
(Vote): Bad Change
(Vote): Wrong Change
(Vote): No Change Needed

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Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Lunareste
Profile Joined July 2011
United States3590 Posts
February 18 2016 19:14 GMT
#2
SIEGE TANK BUFF
KT FlaSh FOREVER
Daeracon
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden197 Posts
February 18 2016 19:20 GMT
#3
This is really good stuff!
You can't use your breaks to get over a hill
BamBam
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
745 Posts
February 18 2016 19:21 GMT
#4
25% damage nerf to a unit whose sole purpose in life is the corrosive bio. kay.
"two is way better than twice as one" - artosis
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
27899 Posts
February 18 2016 19:22 GMT
#5
On February 19 2016 04:14 Lunareste wrote:
SIEGE TANK BUFF

:O

:D
I Protoss winner, could it be?
KtJ
Profile Joined October 2014
United States3508 Posts
February 18 2016 19:24 GMT
#6
On February 19 2016 04:14 Lunareste wrote:
SIEGE TANK BUFF

REJOICE TERRAN
"I thought I destroyed my CC but it seemed like the only thing I destroyed was Idra's mentality."
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France22116 Posts
February 18 2016 19:24 GMT
#7
Love it ! Add disruptor shield nerf to that and we're going to get a great game.
Jett.Jack.Alvir
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada2250 Posts
February 18 2016 19:24 GMT
#8
Inb4 first whine:

Ugh nothing about (insert unit that wrecked you last game played). #Blizzfail

Now for some seriousness, great changes overall. Not sure how everything plays out yet, but I like the direction they are moving towards.
Loccstana
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States833 Posts
February 18 2016 19:25 GMT
#9
I am against the liberator range nerf. This is a large impact on TvP since liberators are essential for holding certain types of all-ins.

Instead of a damage buff, how about a siege tank range buff instead? Also keep the medivac pickup since it is exciting to watch and promotes micro oriented play.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/lw2yN.jpg[/url]
90ti
Profile Joined August 2010
United States100 Posts
February 18 2016 19:26 GMT
#10
lol, "fulfilling their fantasy"
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3262 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-18 19:29:24
February 18 2016 19:27 GMT
#11
Disregarding actual numbers, higher damage siege tank is great.
If a nerf is necessary, please just increase attack cooldown.

High damage, low(ish) attack speed, and low mobility is what the siege tank should be.
June 2010 - August 2017: waiting for the return of Starcraft
ArtyK
Profile Joined June 2011
France3123 Posts
February 18 2016 19:28 GMT
#12
Sounds cool but how will the siege tank 3 shot a ravager (120hp and 1 armor) with 40 damage?
Sup dood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ KiWiKaKi | SLush | uThermal | PtitDrogo | SortOf | Clem ~ "I told my mom she should vote for me in Nation Wars, she said 'I dunno, I kinda want Finland to win'" – Luolis ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_NScWV9h8k#t=1h01m
TL+ Member
Wrath
Profile Blog Joined July 2014
3167 Posts
February 18 2016 19:29 GMT
#13
Tanks needs to have at least 80 damage in siege mode to be justified and be good.
Lunareste
Profile Joined July 2011
United States3590 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-18 19:33:17
February 18 2016 19:30 GMT
#14
I always thought that Siege Tank pickups could have a place in the game if they were locked behind an end game tech, such as Fusion Core, as an expensive upgrade (like 300/300).

This could allow the other player time to account for the upgrade and allow to counter, keeps an interesting micro and mechanically demanding unit micro in the game, and gives Terran another endgame option to Starport tech; if I'm behind in TvT and cannot breach their tank wall, there is now another option than just to go Skyterran.

I think this damage buff is a bit conservative though. Reddit is saying that this basically means that Siege Tanks start with +2, but if our purpose is to make Mech work like in Brood War where a small force can realistically keep map control (unlike SC2 Mech which must turtle), I think another small damage buff could be necessary.
KT FlaSh FOREVER
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United Kingdom2530 Posts
February 18 2016 19:31 GMT
#15
OMG PLEASE!!!!

buff the tank!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bzlsFfIahY
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16523 Posts
February 18 2016 19:32 GMT
#16
These changes seem promising.
Lillekanin
Profile Joined July 2011
Denmark192 Posts
February 18 2016 19:32 GMT
#17
Sounds like decent changes ! Next time touch the thor.
ProgamerStreaming on http://da.twitch.tv/lillekanin
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8848 Posts
February 18 2016 19:33 GMT
#18
Am I the only person in the world who loves tank pickup?
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France22116 Posts
February 18 2016 19:35 GMT
#19
On February 19 2016 04:33 opisska wrote:
Am I the only person in the world who loves tank pickup?

I kinda like it but I see the problems it brings (especially in TvT) too.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
February 18 2016 19:35 GMT
#20
Siege tank buff is nowhere near enough to mitigate the loss of pickup entirely. Nowhere near.

Look at their example. "Ravagers will take 3 shots to kill down from 4."

3 shots down from 4? In what universe does that make a difference? Terrans don't have 3 Siege tanks out by the time Ravagers hit, and if they did, at least some of those attacks are going to be wasted on Roaches anyway. Except now Tanks can't be evacuated by Medivac, so they don't survive the first one/two volleys regardless. Only place where this matters is the unit tester.

The buff vs Roaches is actually a way bigger deal, although they're playing it down, because it means less cleanup left for the Bio once the tanks are dead.

re: "we wonder if it's good to help Tank vs Protoss because Tanks are not good vs Protoss."

Can someone translate this for me? Are they trying to say that it simply won't change anything? And implying that that's perfectly fine?
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
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