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On February 19 2016 04:50 90ti wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2016 04:42 pure.Wasted wrote:On February 19 2016 04:25 Loccstana wrote:
I am against the liberator range nerf. This is a large impact on TvP since liberators are essential for holding certain types of all-ins.
Instead of a damage buff, how about a siege tank range buff instead? Also keep the medivac pickup since it is exciting to watch and promotes micro oriented play. Agreed about the tank 100%. Their damage output isn't the core issue. The fact that other units can close the distance to a tank line basically at a whim is the issue. This was impossible in BW. This is what gave tanks their power. And that is what Medivac pickup emulated, in a roundabout way. It gave tanks "extra range." That's what they need. high damage was okay back then because of the horrible pathing and lack of clumping that you have so much of in SC2. IOW, the stronger you want to make the tanks, the harder the hard counters would have to be, otherwise you'd make like three and then you could go afk, sortof. If you guys want BW tanks, then overkill needs to be reintroduced
Well, don't forget that even a tank with 30 range still needs spotters to take advantage of all range past its vision. That means wasting more scans, or sending more Medivacs ahead of your army, or what have you. And theres a cost to either of those by default. I'm not saying that a nerf to offset extra range wouldn't be necessary, but it's hard to gauge the effect this kind of buff really would have. For example it would have way more impact on defense than offense, but by how much is very unclear.
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On February 19 2016 04:50 PickyProtoss wrote:
I will miss the siege tank being lifted in siege mode, for me it was symbolic of change, it was one of the first time in a while where we saw organic innovation. Now it's gone, siege tank back to being a boring unit.
In your opinion.
My opinion is that the Tankivac is a terrible design that completely destroys the concept behind the transforming Siege Tank.
The Siege Tank is in my opinion one of the best designed RTS units of all time. Leave its design alone.
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I really really like these changes, but I'm a Zerg who hates playing roach ravager anyway :D
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Seems a massive buff for P in PvT, and a bit on PvZ.
Honestly, i play zerg, but it P will be so favored with this patch : No siege pickup anymore, so P can completly abuse Tank with mobility of blink/warp prism/adept. + Liberator range nerf....
And Zvt will be even more boring he is with more camping stuff/mass liberator...
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i don't like removing tankivacs because they remind me of the shuttle/reaver micro in BW. However, I agree that tankivacs make mech way less desirable.
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I'm getting the feeling these nerfs to Terran are too much.
I get the idea behind the proposed changes, but I think Terran needs more to compensate the nerfs.
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The buff to Siege Tanks isn't enough, but it's a start, and that's exciting to see!
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On February 19 2016 04:37 FireCake wrote:
Lurker is useless in ZvT
Now Ravager is useless in ZvT
YES YES YES §§§
Ravager deals less damage to Tanks which now will always be hit by corrosive bile with the Terran player out of options to prevent the hit. R.I.P. Ravager in ZvT lol
The Siege Tank is in my opinion one of the best designed RTS units of all time. Leave its design alone
Well maybe it is but the design of pretty much everything else in SCII fucks over the Siege Tank super badly. The concept of siege and being in a fixed position cant possibly work when other units can simply teleport (Stalkers), take the fire and kill the tank with ease (Immortal) or even prevent the fking tank from firing at all (blinding cloud). Also corrosive bile shreks the tank easily now since u cant prevent the hit. And dont forget the Siege Tank costs 125 gas/3 supply and building them takes a long time.
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I dont understand the Liberator change, someone cares to explain?
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This balance test gives me enough hope to install the game again and start playing. I gave up on the game due many many reasons but this is a good sign again.
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This is childplays david kim. Please enough with the foreplay and increase both tank range and damage or reduce tank supply cost.
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Plz nerf the Lurker.
It's too strong in PvZ.
So many Protoss progamers say that if Zerg has many Lurkers, Protoss never break the Lurker line and end up losing the game.
Actually in the PvZ game, although Protoss has a number of immortals, high templers, and etc, they can't break the line of Lurkers. Because Lurker's range is very long and its striking power is horrible!
Moreover, although Zerg gets some attacks from Protoss in early, it no matter! Zerg just collects Lurkers and can win!
To solve this problem, please down the Lurker's attack range or down its strength or make its tech time late.
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Will be interesting to so how the tank changes plays out.
I really don't have any clue on how much the dmg buff will affect anything (first thought was that it was nowhere near enough) but the tankivac removal is an incredibly big nerf, it will fundamentally change the unit, meaning that at least tvz will have to be figured out from scratch again. Tanks may not be viable at all now (a very real possibility).
But I am not really sure removing it is the best way to go about it. I think it worked out fantastic in tvz and tvp. They should have put in more effort in finding a change to only target tvt.
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On February 19 2016 05:19 Glorfindel! wrote:
I dont understand the Liberator change, someone cares to explain?
There were spots in certain maps where a liberator could give freedom to drones without the queens being able to shoot back.
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removing tankvacs...why? why make the game more of a turtle fest with buffed tanks? people will just qq even more about the dmg of tanks and tanks will get nerfed again. tankvacs were so cool and awesome when pros used them. Ravager vs tankvac was an awesome relationship and the harass of tankvacs allowed terran to do more things with his apm. now it will be all gone.
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Without the accessibility of siege tank pick up, almost all aggression potential in every single matchup is decreased, considering Terran mostly won in competitive play with moves that involve that. This means you're changing back something about the race that has been changed & buffed the least (fundamentally & new units wise). If you propose this to be reality soon, start thinking about a cyclone change that makes it compatible with bio as aggression potential, possibly strengthen bio late game as Terrans in al regions and on all levels are not successful with transitioning to a comfortable late game compositon. Terrans all over Korea will start struggling soon if the balance team doesn't set the priority to carefully examine highest level progames and notice what really wins games instead of taking too much low league community feedback in consideration - professional play is what makes the game unique and keeps the community alive. Many Terrans are complaining about the siege tank pickup because it changes the way they control their standard army which hasn't changed since the last 6 years. I personally think there is a wide range of what siege tank pick up micro can offer, in matter of excitement, ingenuity and map-dependent micro.
Many concerned high level Terran players
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On February 19 2016 05:27 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2016 05:19 Glorfindel! wrote:
I dont understand the Liberator change, someone cares to explain? There were spots in certain maps where a liberator could give freedom to drones without the queens being able to shoot back.
But is range just decreased by one?
That is the change?
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Nice patch. I do think the tank needs a bigger buff though.
More health and more damage.
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On February 19 2016 05:00 StarscreamG1 wrote:
Ravager 3 shots? Haven't they 120 HP and 1 point auto regen?
plus it has 1 armor.
This doesn't even seem to make the tank 3 hit it, it still takes 4 hits or am I going full retard now?
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On February 19 2016 05:19 Eiltonn wrote:
Well maybe it is but the design of pretty much everything else in SCII fucks over the Siege Tank super badly. The concept of siege and being in a fixed position cant possibly work when other units can simply teleport (Stalkers), take the fire and kill the tank with ease (Immortal) or even prevent the fking tank from firing at all (blinding cloud). Also corrosive bile shreks the tank easily now since u cant prevent the hit. And dont forget the Siege Tank costs 125 gas/3 supply and building them takes a long time.
Just because a unit has counterplay doesn't mean it loses all of it's viability. It's your job to prevent that counterplay from happening.
If your oppoenent blink stalkers on top of your siegetanks, thats a massive commitment. Abuse that.
I mean, banelings in theory absolutely demolish Marines, but sometimes infinite amounts of banelings don't do anything. We shall wait and see how this works out.
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EPT
