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On February 19 2016 04:25 Loccstana wrote:
I am against the liberator range nerf. This is a large impact on TvP since liberators are essential for holding certain types of all-ins.
Instead of a damage buff, how about a siege tank range buff instead? Also keep the medivac pickup since it is exciting to watch and promotes micro oriented play.
I would be for a damage buff as a zerg player, but i would be against the range though. It goes from a punish zoning type unit to straight abusive.
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On February 19 2016 04:35 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2016 04:33 opisska wrote:
Am I the only person in the world who loves tank pickup? I kinda like it but I see the problems it brings (especially in TvT) too.
TvT is recently getting more and more awesome and tank pickup is one of the reasons. Especially in TvT it's not a mindless ability, you have to calculate and execute perfectly when using it, siege lines are still powerful, but you must always look out for tankivac flying in to places you definitely don't want them to.
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Lurker is useless in ZvT
Now Ravager is useless in ZvT
YES YES YES §§§
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Will be interested to see how these work out. Worried that Terrans will just get rolled over by roach/ravager timings.
Also ravager still take 4 tank hits to kill? Dunno why they said 3.
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On February 19 2016 04:25 Loccstana wrote:
I am against the liberator range nerf. This is a large impact on TvP since liberators are essential for holding certain types of all-ins.
Instead of a damage buff, how about a siege tank range buff instead? Also keep the medivac pickup since it is exciting to watch and promotes micro oriented play.
Agreed about the tank 100%. Their damage output isn't the core issue. The fact that other units can close the distance to a tank line basically at a whim is the issue. This was impossible in BW. This is what gave tanks their power.
And that is what Medivac pickup emulated, in a roundabout way. It gave tanks "extra range." That's what they need.
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On February 19 2016 04:37 FireCake wrote:
Lurker is useless in ZvT
Now Ravager is useless in ZvT
YES YES YES §§§
Are Lurkers useless, or are they just completely overshadowed by Ultralisks? What makes them useless?
I would have thought that with bio being so prevalent + no Ravens + MULEs more necessary than ever, they should in theory be pretty effective. Is Terran too good at getting around them?
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On February 19 2016 04:35 pure.Wasted wrote:
Siege tank buff is nowhere near enough to mitigate the loss of pickup entirely. Nowhere near.
Look at their example. "Ravagers will take 3 shots to kill down from 4."
3 shots down from 4? In what universe does that make a difference? Terrans don't have 3 Siege tanks out by the time Ravagers hit, and if they did, at least some of those attacks are going to be wasted on Roaches anyway. Except now Tanks can't be evacuated by Medivac, so they don't survive the first one/two volleys regardless. Only place where this matters is the unit tester.
The buff vs Roaches is actually a way bigger deal, although they're playing it down, because it means less cleanup left for the Bio once the tanks are dead.
re: "we wonder if it's good to help Tank vs Protoss because Tanks are not good vs Protoss."
Can someone translate this for me? Are they trying to say that it simply won't change anything? And implying that that's perfectly fine?
They mean that in TvT and TvZ they were careful with the numbers so that this is a buff mostly against the units they want, but that in TvP this change is a slight buff across the board, but they are fine with that and interested to see how that turns out since it's less likely that siege tanks turn out to be broken in that match-up of all match-ups due to how bad they are currently.
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On February 19 2016 04:30 Lunareste wrote:
I always thought that Siege Tank pickups could have a place in the game if they were locked behind an end game tech, such as Fusion Core, as an expensive upgrade (like 300/300).
Well you know that a Fusion Core by itself is a expensive thing ?
Also I'm kinda set they are gone - Not that I'm a Terran Player but it's a very dynamic way to play mech unit's - I wish we had a reworked Warhound for LotV :/ or atleast a kind of goliath.
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On February 19 2016 04:46 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2016 04:35 pure.Wasted wrote:
Siege tank buff is nowhere near enough to mitigate the loss of pickup entirely. Nowhere near.
Look at their example. "Ravagers will take 3 shots to kill down from 4."
3 shots down from 4? In what universe does that make a difference? Terrans don't have 3 Siege tanks out by the time Ravagers hit, and if they did, at least some of those attacks are going to be wasted on Roaches anyway. Except now Tanks can't be evacuated by Medivac, so they don't survive the first one/two volleys regardless. Only place where this matters is the unit tester.
The buff vs Roaches is actually a way bigger deal, although they're playing it down, because it means less cleanup left for the Bio once the tanks are dead.
re: "we wonder if it's good to help Tank vs Protoss because Tanks are not good vs Protoss."
Can someone translate this for me? Are they trying to say that it simply won't change anything? And implying that that's perfectly fine? They mean that in TvT and TvZ they were careful with the numbers so that this is a buff mostly against the units they want, but that in TvP this change is a slight buff across the board, but they are fine with that and interested to see how that turns out since it's less likely that siege tanks turn out to be broken in that match-up of all match-ups due to how bad they are currently.
Oh ok that makes sense. That's a very inappropriate and confusing use of "already" in the OP. Grammar not quite 10/10
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On February 19 2016 04:37 FireCake wrote:
Lurker is useless in ZvT
Now Ravager is useless in ZvT
YES YES YES §§§
I don't think either of those units are going to be useless with this buff. Don't forget, no more flying tanks which is going to make killing siege tanks a million times easier.
I actually think Ravager rushes might potentially be OP now because Terran will have 1 siege tank and now he can't pick it up to micro against the rush.
I may be wrong, but I don't see Ravagers or Lurkers being useless!
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I will miss the siege tank being lifted in siege mode, for me it was symbolic of change, it was one of the first time in a while where we saw organic innovation. Now it's gone, siege tank back to being a boring unit.
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On February 19 2016 04:42 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2016 04:25 Loccstana wrote:
I am against the liberator range nerf. This is a large impact on TvP since liberators are essential for holding certain types of all-ins.
Instead of a damage buff, how about a siege tank range buff instead? Also keep the medivac pickup since it is exciting to watch and promotes micro oriented play. Agreed about the tank 100%. Their damage output isn't the core issue. The fact that other units can close the distance to a tank line basically at a whim is the issue. This was impossible in BW. This is what gave tanks their power. And that is what Medivac pickup emulated, in a roundabout way. It gave tanks "extra range." That's what they need.
high damage was okay back then because of the horrible pathing and lack of clumping that you have so much of in SC2. IOW, the stronger you want to make the tanks, the harder the hard counters would have to be, otherwise you'd make like three and then you could go afk, sortof.
If you guys want BW tanks, then overkill needs to be reintroduced
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On February 19 2016 04:33 opisska wrote:
Am I the only person in the world who loves tank pickup?
Nope. I am a fan of tank pickup or commonly called "Tankivac". I think it is a "better unit" than the cyclone in LoTV
Hard to micromanage it, but with practice, it can become very interesting.
I can't even less tell about viewers point of view. Watch some pros play marine-tankivac in a furious TvT is a real pleasure.
I will be sad if tank pick up is removed.
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Well if you want Zerg to have to turtle to hive in order to beat Terran, than so be it.
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Seems exciting  .
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The only thing I don't like in the patch is that ZvP ravager rushes really aren't that bad and ravagers don't need to be weakened against archon immortal comps. That is probably not a big deal but ... would be nice if you could find a way around nerfing them in that scenario.
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tank buff is not enough at all.
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Ravager 3 shots? Haven't they 120 HP and 1 point auto regen?
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Say "cool factor" one more time. I double dare you...
But frankly, these all seem surprisingly solid ideas, even considering the effect of the changes on one another. Now I'm just hoping they are going to implement these.
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OMG yes YES!!! Do the Siege Tank change NOW!
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EPT
