EPTOn January 21 2016 06:39 LastManProductions wrote:
If people keep saying SC2 will die, it will die.
If people keep saying SC2 will die, it will die.
Sc2 will not die. I hope it works.
SC2's shrinking talent pool: stuchiu on ESPN - Page 2
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aXa
France748 Posts
Sc2 will not die. I hope it works. | ||
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bypLy
757 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
 .I don't think it's the best written article of stuchiu ever, but I completely agree with the message of it. We need some new talent in Korea and the lack of tournaments doesn't help. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 21 2016 06:39 -Kyo- wrote: debated posting this or not since first part is more of a general statement ;; neway.. People who keep blaming WCS have little understanding of how the current WCS season works - or have bothered to check regionally who is actually able to qualify based on the way the new spot system works. I really don't know what is up with so many people who document or write as a part of the TL community and their poor understanding somehow being elevated to the most popular writers. To the point that there are no new players... there are plenty of korean players who are not on pro teams, and it'd be silly to think otherwise. It's sad that Blizzard doesn't support these current teams, or leagues but it's not really their /job/. If they don't want to do it and it makes all of us mad, which I think it does, then simply don't buy their products anymore. If the game cannot sustain itself to make room for these new players, which exist, then there is only one direction it is going to go. Oh, and as far as me and other players could tell the challenger league placements is like $2k less than it was last year if u get promoted from challenger to premier? some1 check dat for me? I'm not quite sure what exactly it is you're trying to argue. Are you saying that there is a foundation of potentially competitive players in Korea, but that we (or "people who document or write as a part of the TL community and their poor understanding somehow being elevated to the most popular writers.") simply don't see them or know of their existence? The number of rookies breaking into GSL/SSL over the last two years (2014 and 2015, we can even throw in the 2016 seasons thus far for good measure) can probably be counted on two hands. The number of significant players (highly competitive, potentially championship-winning players) that have retired, not so. What stuchiu is arguing is that the push from new players into the competitive scene is almost non-existent. Feel free to try disproving this. I'm eager to see it, because I share stu's viewpoint. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On January 21 2016 06:56 Zealously wrote: I'm not quite sure what exactly it is you're trying to argue. Are you saying that there is a foundation of potentially competitive players in Korea, but that we (or "people who document or write as a part of the TL community and their poor understanding somehow being elevated to the most popular writers.") simply don't see them or know of their existence? The number of rookies breaking into GSL/SSL over the last two years (2014 and 2015, we can even throw in the 2016 seasons thus far for good measure) can probably be counted on two hands. The number of significant players (highly competitive, potentially championship-winning players) that have retired, not so. What stuchiu is arguing is that the push from new players into the competitive scene is almost non-existent. Feel free to try disproving this. I'm eager to see it, because I share stu's viewpoint. I think that holds for games such as CS as well. All the companies want to sponsor some already good team and the people just below the pro level have to sacrifice many years in their parents basements before they get any chance of reward. The difference is that there are more shady companies, more online tournaments and more fans, so it kinda works for now. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
As much as I disagree with Blizzard for taking other everything with their WCS point system, the real issue is that SC2 isn't the game it once was. It was on the top of the world, beating out FPSs and MOBAs (the same ones it is now behind in E-Sports audiences) because it was an awesome game to play and watch. Today it is a former shell of itself. People had comments during vod night when we watched some of the epic games from WOL that were very revealing, things like "imagine this game with photon/pylon overcharge" and they were right; the game would have been terrible. Those kind of comments are revealing to the direction the game designers have taken the game. And playerbase of SC2 and it's viability as an E-Sport suffers as a direct result of said direction. | ||
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Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2223 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
In general the game doesn't draw enough attention to support this vast amount of toplevel players regularily. It seems like blizzard is the only lifeline for the competitive scene at this point. | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
On January 21 2016 06:30 ZombieFrog wrote: but whatever, blizzard made its choice and this was already discussed when they did. so we do nothing about it and just sit still? | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On January 21 2016 06:44 Djzapz wrote: I think people are saying SC2 is dying because it is. I don't know that you can successfully argue that it goes the other way around. If you're actually under the impression that the "SC2 is dying" concern is coming from no where and it has no foundation in reality, and that the concern by itself is undermining the game, you've got some serious work to do to prove that. Let me say it this way: games that are actually doing good don't have that systemic issue of passionate players raising the concerns about the game "dying". But SC2 has been "dying" since release. Of course, the boy who cried wolf did eventually meet a wolf. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 21 2016 06:44 Djzapz wrote: I think people are saying SC2 is dying because it is. I don't know that you can successfully argue that it goes the other way around. If you're actually under the impression that the "SC2 is dying" concern is coming from no where and it has no foundation in reality, and that the concern by itself is undermining the game, you've got some serious work to do to prove that. Let me say it this way: games that are actually doing good don't have that systemic issue of passionate players raising the concerns about the game "dying". Truer words have rarely been spoken. I liked the article, but felt like it did avoid the harsh but factual truth : SC2 is not declining because of the WCS changes, SC2 is not declining because of the lack of new players. These are merely symptoms, but the origin of the problem is elsewhere. It lies within SC2 itself. | ||
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
On January 21 2016 06:47 TheSayo182 wrote: imho the main problem is the game itself...it is not fun to play and hard to learn I think it's the maps. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On January 21 2016 07:21 Sn0_Man wrote: Nobody noticed that ESPN couldn't even get the term "in sight" right on the twitter card for the article? They should hire TL's editors too | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
I really wanted to give my opinion on it in some kind of feedback but my poor writing skills won't let me -.- I just wanna say that, while I agree with the main point and reasons, I think mentioning the WCS so early in the article set a tone of "blame WCS for this shrinkage", and thus makes it easy for people to immediately get pissed and read the rest of the article trying to find weak points in it or proving it wrong. I believe if everything was said without mentioning WCS until the last minute, like something in the line of "oh, btw, the new WCS rules are kinda worsening this situation", it would have been better to make your point clear. It is also visible the more "professional" tone in your writing. I wonder how many more you have to write until we start seeing cheeky remarks here and there  | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17895 Posts
On January 21 2016 07:11 OtherWorld wrote: Truer words have rarely been spoken. I liked the article, but felt like it did avoid the harsh but factual truth : SC2 is not declining because of the WCS changes, SC2 is not declining because of the lack of new players. These are merely symptoms, but the origin of the problem is elsewhere. It lies within SC2 itself. it does not matter how good SC2 is. the entire genre is toast.. its larger than SC2 or Blizzard or even ATVI. ATVI can not stop sociological trends. 13 to 16 year olds are playing Mobile Strike, Clash of Clans, and Boom Beach. Technological improvements have given players options that did not exist in 1999. in 1999 the only way to have your giant army fight another guys painstakingly built giant army was by owning a desktop PC... those days are long since gone. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rMNqpoQ.jpg) As far as people trying to say "perception is reality" when it comes to repeatedly hearing about the decline of SC2. In the english-speaking world SC2 is declining about as fast as Borderlands. No one on the Gearbox site is talking about the decline of Borderlands. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
On January 21 2016 07:06 graNite wrote: so we do nothing about it and just sit still? I think there will come a time where the current sc2 system in Korea collapses, all teams disband, blizzard ends support for kr sc2, and then we'll have grassroots organized tournaments (maybe even with their own "patches" and maps). The own patches part may seem far fetched but I could see it happening in the future once official patches stop while the game has serious flaws. It's a form of people taking matters into their own hands (and get rid of tankivacs). | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 21 2016 06:47 TheSayo182 wrote: imho the main problem is the game itself...it is not fun to play and hard to learn I mean that has been the Elephant in the room since mid 2011 when the playerbase started declining without the sign of any countermovement. And both expansions failed to leave an impact. And why would they when they didn't do a lot besides adding a few units and making everything that killed noobs even stronger. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/h1nFeL3.jpg) JimmyJRaynor beat me to it with the graphics | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
We're looking into buying ESPN | ||
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