EPTCommunity Feedback - December 4 - Page 4
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4534 Posts
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lestye
United States4243 Posts
On December 05 2015 04:52 DuB phool wrote: So. I had this idea where forcefields cause a disruptor shot to reverse direction with double velocity and be momentarily uncontrollable. Disruptor pinball >>>>> disruptor tennis. Right? RIGHT??? I thought the initial idea of having forcefields cancel disruptor shot was the best idea i've ever had , but you have perfected that idea. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On December 05 2015 05:33 Liquid`Ret wrote: I hope they release good WCS-worthy maps soon. It's hard to judge things properly when some of the maps are pretty ridiculous. I hope they go back to using community maps, they tend to be better. | ||
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pmp10
3399 Posts
Not that I'm complaining but what discussion made that happen? | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On December 05 2015 04:47 banjoetheredskin wrote: If the ability switching in the case of burrow/unburrow were streamlined to match that of terran units switching in and out of siege/assault/defender mode, that should be easier to understand even if it's "more options". For fucks sake, casuals might not be intimately familiar with the game mechanics but they're not fucking morons. If something is as consistent as it could be with the implementation of the burrow change, it should actually be helpful for someone who might not otherwise know what key to press. Hmm, I played terran and the siege tank requires two different buttons to switch back and forth. Let me glance to the bottom right corner for .5 seconds to see if this is the case with the roach. Oh, it's the D key, just like unsieging a tank. How convenient. i think you are massively overestimating the mental capabilties of the dev team behind SC2 | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
I don't know what series you were watching, but in PartinG vs Showtime, Stalkers and Disruptors were getting blown up left and right. This is fundamentally different from SH stalemates, because SH stalemates can go on indefinitely, while Disruptor wars are hard limited by the resources on the map. There may be problems with engaging into Disruptors, as DK points out, but that can be tweaked with a few number changes. The only quibble I have with that paragraph is it implies they're not concerned about the possibility of other races also having trouble engaging into a critical mass of Disruptors. We haven't seen this be problematic on the pro level yet, but it'd have been nice to see them acknowledge the possibility as something to look out for. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On December 05 2015 04:15 Elentos wrote: I'm a bit confused by that statement. What games do they look at? Only Dreamhack? Only offline? Everything including online cups?  They must have looked at ByuN vs Zerg. | ||
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DCStarcraftGall
102 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 05 2015 05:36 pmp10 wrote: Thor changes? Not that I'm complaining but what discussion made that happen? Buffing mech  | ||
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pieroog
Poland146 Posts
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FanaticCZ
Czech Republic287 Posts
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
On December 05 2015 05:08 heishe wrote: Except those are not genuinely huge issues and players probably just haven't figured out how to deal with it correctly. For example, Nydus all ins are no problem if you actually prioritize your economy correctly: You just have to have enough stuff to defend vs them. But many players get caught off guard or were too greedy before and then complain when their wall doesn't save them. I mean, your perspective is kind of funny, because the entire reason for wanting to kill a nydus before units come out is because you have no way to deal with them once the units arrive. This just should never be case, and you have to adapt your openings and game progression to survive vs nydus all ins, not ask Blizzard for letting you kill Nydus so you don't have to deal with the units that come through them. I'm obviously biased since I'm Zerg but every time I win a game and look at the replay my reaction is the same: People just play like they've played for 5 years instead of genuinely trying to change up their playstyle and then complain when it doesn't work. People were just used for 5 years that Zerg doesn't do anything too aggressive until its a full scale all in or mid game with mutas or other more aggressive units arrives, and thus haven't learned to scout and react to opponents eco when it's clear they're going to do a timing attack, and then scale back of getting upgrades or new CCs and SCVs, and make more units instead, or changing up unit compositions to deal with it. People literally just blindly build their favorite unit composition while trying to turtle and then complain when it doesn't work. Or they try blatantly greedy opening and then complain when they don't have enough units when a push arrives. Same goes for parasitic bomb: Whoops! I make 100 supply air units and my opponent beats it with only a couple of vipers! Guess parasitic bomb is imba! I hope you don't switch to Zerg, make mass mutas and corruptors and then complain that they're countered by a miniscule amount of Thors compared to your army. I have yet to be pointed to a single replay where a Zerg does something that is considered imba right now, wins and I can say "yup, not much the T/P could've done there" or "short of amazing robot like micro nothing could be changed in the outcome here". Instead I always see giant mistakes which the all players make (ALL of them, including most pros) which could be alleviated by simple change of decision making. But instead they just try to copy all BOs of pros they knew in the past, without actually thinking about why they're doing what they're doing. And as a result Zerg dominates, because Zerg players have been learning this skill since the very beginning when SC2 came out. To scout opponents eco, interpret it, and react to it in just the right manner that you have an econ advantage while also not dying to aggression. And the other two races now need to figure this out vs Zerg, but haven't. After watching 6 hours of continuous nydus network abuse, as a not Zerg player, I cannot afford myself the luxury to be biased. If you're asking who dared to have such an immoral conduct , well, his name is ZergBonJovi the 4th. You can find the vod quite easily. | ||
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FruitsPunchSamurai
United Kingdom87 Posts
What if the Nexus could construct cannons without a forge and plant it down within, say, a radius of 15. Give it 30 seconds of construction in the Nexus (probes cannot be produced during this time) and then another 10 seconds warping in (similar to the warp-in pylon ability in campaign). I think it would be relatively good in PvP as it would allow tech builds to hold against heavy aggression slightly better (compared to no overcharge) while still allowing aggressive builds to have an edge against overly greedy builds. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On December 05 2015 05:48 DCStarcraftGall wrote: Can Blizzard add a default channel separated into leagues when we come in in addition to General? this would make finding Archon mode, Co-Op, and practice partners way easier. This would be a pretty good idea I think. | ||
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PepperMintTea
187 Posts
1. APM Change - Don't care 2. Co-op missions - Don't care 3. Disruptors in PvP - Proposed changes seem good, it is interesting for the spectator but that matchup needs time to develop. I don't play protoss so I can't give insight but I would like to see disruptor cost energy rather than a cooldown. 4. Thor - I can't go mutas anyway so buff the Thor all you want. 5. Pylon Overcharge - This spell mainly seems to be an issue in PvT from what I read so I can't give much input to it but it seems like it would make multi pronged aggression stronger which is always fun to see. It might be a good pre-emptive nerf to silly aggressive pylon cheese. I haven't encountered that yet though. 6. Carrier - I only see carriers in boring turtle games vs protoss so nerfing the build time doesn't affect that strategy. Maybe there is some build out there with a 2 carrier timing or something that I haven't see. Not a big change overall 7. Zerg Burrow Change - I mean I learned with the single button and it served me fine for years so I don't see the need to change it when it isn't going to be an improvement. 8. Zerg Strength in General - I can speak quite a bit to this. My main question to Terran/Protoss players would be how often are you facing an early Roach-Ravager Push and what is needed to hold this off? I don't do this strategy and maybe that is why ZvT is statistically my worse match up. Which leads me into my experience of the ZvT matchup. If you don't do a Roach-Ravager push, there is a huge window in which Terran are stronger than zerg. Firstly there are a wide array of harasses and timing pushes that Terran can do that are very strong, hellbats, banshees,liberators, tank timings etc are all really good, and not easy to identify. After that the period "pre hive" used to be a roughly equal battle between bio and Muta,ling,bane . With the changes to Larvae and the introduction of the liberator this battle has swung in the terran favour. If I try to go lurker, again there is a huge period where I am getting the hydra den and then morphing it, this is a long time and I have taken game ending damage waiting for this to finish and having my 10 hydras get obliterated. If I ignore or don't go lurkers I have an army of ling, bane, corrupter which is less scary than ling,bane,muta. Or I am just on ling bane until I have hive...That is a big window. So then you get to the next complaint about zerg in this matchup which is that Ultras are too strong. I agree it is strong but it should be, It took me along time to get there, get upgrades, not die and then pay a lot to build the thing, it should be a strong unit. It shouldn't be an overpriced paperweight. The ultralisk used to be naturally absorbed by a terran because marauders and marines could handle it. I hope I don't overstep myself by saying this but perhaps scouting the hive and anticipating the switch can lead the terran to adapt by making a different unit like a liberator or a siege tank. These units do great against the ultra. This is assuming you can't just go kill the zerg. As for Parasitic Bomb, Again I would argue that this is an energy unit and requires a solution like a ghost or something similar. I haven't really used this unit in ZvT because I am spending my gas on banes to not die midgame, lurkers/corrupters to not die later and then my hive tech of choice. I want to hear what situations Terran has been in where they are losing games to parasitic bomb because I haven't won with it. For ZvP. Lurkers are pretty damn good but again it's a positional unit that literally can't move as it shoots, that takes a while to get to so there are solutions. My strategy in this matchup is muta-->lurker or lurker--> muta and I've had good success with that. I suppose my perspective gained from ladder, and watching Byun play TvZ. I don't feel like zerg is actually overpowered without roach-ravager. My proposed idea would be a nerf to corrosive bile, ravager health and reverting the nydus wurm. Coupled with this I think a toning down of the liberator vs air to allow mutas a place in that matchup again. This was a bit of a wall of text so thanks if you took the time to read it. 9. Balance Test Update - To my eternal shame I don't play on the balance test map as I prefer to ladder. I hope I didn't offend anyone with this but it is just my experience, I would echo the statements of nony, be patient and wait for things to develop and also the thoughts of ret , give better maps. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27415 Posts
On December 05 2015 04:47 banjoetheredskin wrote: If the ability switching in the case of burrow/unburrow were streamlined to match that of terran units switching in and out of siege/assault/defender mode, that should be easier to understand even if it's "more options". For fucks sake, casuals might not be intimately familiar with the game mechanics but they're not fucking morons. If something is as consistent as it could be with the implementation of the burrow change, it should actually be helpful for someone who might not otherwise know what key to press. Hmm, I played terran and the siege tank requires two different buttons to switch back and forth. Let me glance to the bottom right corner for .5 seconds to see if this is the case with the roach. Oh, it's the D key, just like unsieging a tank. How convenient. Yeah that really irritated me, Blizzard don't appear to hold the collective intelligence of the playerbase in high regard judging from that point. | ||
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NyxNax
United States227 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16095 Posts
On December 05 2015 06:09 PepperMintTea wrote: So then you get to the next complaint about zerg in this matchup which is that Ultras are too strong. I agree it is strong but it should be, It took me along time to get there, get upgrades, not die and then pay a lot to build the thing, it should be a strong unit. It shouldn't be an overpriced paperweight. The ultralisk used to be naturally absorbed by a terran because marauders and marines could handle it. I hope I don't overstep myself by saying this but perhaps scouting the hive and anticipating the switch can lead the terran to adapt by making a different unit like a liberator or a siege tank. These units do great against the ultra. This is assuming you can't just go kill the zerg. As for Parasitic Bomb, Again I would argue that this is an energy unit and requires a solution like a ghost or something similar. I haven't really used this unit in ZvT because I am spending my gas on banes to not die midgame, lurkers/corrupters to not die later and then my hive tech of choice. I want to hear what situations Terran has been in where they are losing games to parasitic bomb because I haven't won with it. I agree that with liberators in their current state ultras aren't really op but I really despise this hardcounter mechanic. "Oh I made 10 ultras that you didn't scout and now I win despite having half your economy" Also it's not very good design that you need an air unit to counter a ground unit because this forces zerg to build corruptors (the only thing that deals with liberators) and then every game revolves around mass air battles - where parasitic bomb comes into play which is imo completely broken and makes the zerg army untouchable in direct fight. Once the zerg has ultra/corruptor/viper with broodlords the only thing you can do is drop everywhere and play for the baserace because this army can't be defeated in direct combat. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
6. Carrier - I only see carriers in boring turtle games vs protoss so nerfing the build time doesn't affect that strategy. Maybe there is some build out there with a 2 carrier timing or something that I haven't see. Not a big change overall The reason you only see them in those games is because it's basically impossible to use them for anything else (you can't do timings or expand aggressively) since they heavily nerfed the build time and also took 50 health off. | ||
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