EPTCommunity Feedback - December 4 - Page 11
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
ThunderJunk
United States648 Posts
| ||
|
PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
| ||
|
HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On December 07 2015 02:40 ThunderJunk wrote: Honestly, I think the biggest problem with Zerg is the Muta switch. Protoss and terran have very little ability to zone where a muta flock goes without using their entire army. I think buffing archon dmg or splash vs air would be a good fix for toss, and increasing Thor dmg vs air would be good for Terran. Terran has plenty of ways to deal with Mutas. Personally don't see the problem with them on T side. Protoss though does have legit problems with Muta switches if they don't scout for it. Sometimes it can end up being an automatic loss. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland23700 Posts
| ||
|
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 07 2015 02:40 ThunderJunk wrote: Honestly, I think the biggest problem with Zerg is the Muta switch. Protoss and terran have very little ability to zone where a muta flock goes without using their entire army. I think buffing archon dmg or splash vs air would be a good fix for toss, and increasing Thor dmg vs air would be good for Terran. Yes, in vs Protoss obviously. One really must be blind to not see how Protoss vs Zerg has so far for 5 years relied on Protoss being overpowered on the ground and zerg being able to techswitch to the skies - swarm host times were the exception and not even then because zerg was still heavily reliant on mass corruptor/viper - to prevent strategies like double robo from becoming viable (Mutas, Broodlords, Broodlord/Infestor, Muta Switches). Now that Zerg has gotten units that can straight up compete with the Protoss ground deathball - lurker, ravager to some degree, ultra to some degree - Protoss is suddenly fucked because they still can't go double robo or something of that kind to actually build their techunit count up on time without taking an extreme gamble. Against Zerg mass mutas have been very dominant since the infestor nerf, though roach timings held them back in long phases of the metagame. Until they popped up again and the games turned out to be mass muta again... Against Terran I don't agree though, especially nowadays with liberators in the picture. But I'm sure blizzard will do the right thing and not touch their beloved "fuck-your-base-from-behind"-units and rather make half of the ground units in the game unplayable. | ||
|
heishe
Germany2284 Posts
For example, the muta switch you're talking about is more of a follow up when you can't manage to beat a Toss or Terran in a push. It's mostly meant to stall and do eco damage while you're recovering the rest of your army. If a fight ends evenly or you're ahead, you're not going to have a problem with it. However, if you just barely held a push against a +30 and upwards supply army, you shouldn't be surprised if the follow up of a muta switch harass + some ground units is stronger than you can deal with because at that point your opponent is most likely way ahead in econ. and unit numbers. You can see this literally in all games from DH where Solar used the Muta switch to great effect for example. I don't get it, the argumentation in this thread is all the same. People argue in a vacuum and complain about getting steamrolled by mass ultras for example. Well I can tell you one thing for sure, if the Zerg has the time to not only tech to, but assemble, a mass ultra army with full upgrades he either has such an economy advantage vs. you that it isn't funny, or you have more than enough tools available to scout and counter it. But people don't seem to get it and ask for a "get out of jail free card" instead. Focus too much on "my opponent has [x], why can't I beat it?" not enough on "how did opponent get [x]" and "why do I even have 50 supply less than my opponent". They want to beat a 150 supply roach/ravager army with 100 supply worth of whatever by having Blizzard introduce or buff something into a roll that can do this. This is not supposed to happen without a great use of skill (such as Byuls mass drop play he's often used recently) and I hope it never will. | ||
|
FruitsPunchSamurai
United Kingdom87 Posts
On December 07 2015 06:00 heishe wrote: A zerg doesn't just get 2-4k gas and makes masses of mutas and beats you with it without you doing something very wrong. Probably the game is already over anyways and it doesnt matter what units the Zerg does because of eco advantage but it's just dragging on because the Zerg couldn't finish you so he makes mass mutas with his mass bases vs yours. I disagree with this part, sometimes in games you can have prolonged stalemates where both sides are unable to engage the other and both players build up large banks. The main reason muta switches are so strong (in particular vs Protoss) is because you don't know what zerg is going to remax on, making it a prediction game. It isn't particularly overpowered (because phoenix counters mutalisks so hard), but it creates a bad dynamic where Zerg wins because you guessed wrong or zerg gets crushed because you happened to guess correctly. I feel a lot of this stems from how one-sided battles become depending on whether Protoss has build enough hard counters (phoenix vs muta, immortal vs ultra). Without enough of a particular counter, Protoss gets crushed pretty hard most of the time and with enough of it Zerg gets annihilated. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20274 Posts
A zerg doesn't just get 2-4k gas and makes masses of mutas and beats you with it without you doing something very wrong. They do, 2000 gas isn't very much in legacy. Random 15-20 muta happens commonly and people just build a spire and continue flooding lurker etc in a ton of games - it's largely a matter of reacting to instant 15 mutas than it is of scouting for it before it happens because of that | ||
|
Janko
Slovenia28 Posts
| ||
|
HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
| ||
|
CheeseCakez0
22 Posts
| ||
|
JackONeill
861 Posts
I'd like the thor to recieve an HP buff and change its attacks animation, even if it mean reducing its AG damage. | ||
|
raXNT
16 Posts
Are you gonna take as many years as you did with swarmhost to realize and ADMIT that this unit is a COMPLETE design flaw from your side and that it doesnt make for great games?. Everyone I know in SC2 community and everyone they know HATE THIS UNIT and everything in my Protoss soul tells me this unit is a completely flawed unit that does not add anything good to SC2. Look at Swarm host now, you NEVER SEE IT. At Blizzcon you said you learned alot from WOL and HOTS, well I have yet to see it. Hopeless | ||
|
Dracover
Australia177 Posts
On December 07 2015 07:06 Cyro wrote: They do, 2000 gas isn't very much in legacy. Random 15-20 muta happens commonly and people just build a spire and continue flooding lurker etc in a ton of games - it's largely a matter of reacting to instant 15 mutas than it is of scouting for it before it happens because of that This is my thought exactly. LoTV you max quick, you start banking resources quickly. You spend 70% of the the game posturing. Games that I win in PvZ is when the Zerg keeps bashing their heads onto my third and we keep trading. This is largely because I know their spending their gas and can't switch into 20 mutas, or Ultras. But when the Zerg sits there, parked behind some lurkers and does not attack and just banks resources...it's not hard to switch into anything after remax and there's no way of knowing what it will be. It's not like the eggs have a sign on them (like a stargate) that tells you what they're making.. | ||
|
Nam_Pho_life
6 Posts
| ||
|
ChristianS
United States3185 Posts
On December 07 2015 10:04 raXNT wrote: I'm a Protoss player and I HATE THE DISRUPTOR more then anything you have ever done in SC2 history. Are you gonna take as many years as you did with swarmhost to realize and ADMIT that this unit is a COMPLETE design flaw from your side and that it doesnt make for great games?. Everyone I know in SC2 community and everyone they know HATE THIS UNIT and everything in my Protoss soul tells me this unit is a completely flawed unit that does not add anything good to SC2. Look at Swarm host now, you NEVER SEE IT. At Blizzcon you said you learned alot from WOL and HOTS, well I have yet to see it. Hopeless Care to give a reason for any of your opinions? As it is I think your post can be boiled down to one sentence: "I don't like the disruptor, and my friends don't either." You talk about the swarm host, but don't establish how they're similar, you say it's a design flaw but don't say why. If Blizzard gets a lot of feedback, some in favor of the disruptor, some opposed, then one more person saying "I don't like it" isn't gonna change anything. If you talked about why it's bad, and ways that it could be better, at least your feedback might be useful for something | ||
|
TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
On December 05 2015 03:53 Topdoller wrote: Pylon Overcharge is silly, is it even necessary. Protoss is untouchable in the early game with these pylons so easily turned into long range murdering machines I suggest that the overcharge be replaced with an ability that can temporarily cloak all the surrounding units like mothership's. That would make all your probes and units practically invulnerable in the early game when there's no means of detection, but the point is, in that circumstance, you MUST have a handful of units to defend your base instead of just a pylon and nothing else. | ||
|
egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
Ofc it is a obvious nerf to disruptor so to keep balance is same place I suggested slightly reducing Nova cooldown which also would help with more consistent dmg output with disruptors. | ||
|
raXNT
16 Posts
Care to give a reason for any of your opinions? As it is I think your post can be boiled down to one sentence: "I don't like the disruptor, and my friends don't either." You talk about the swarm host, but don't establish how they're similar, you say it's a design flaw but don't say why. If Blizzard gets a lot of feedback, some in favor of the disruptor, some opposed, then one more person saying "I don't like it" isn't gonna change anything. If you talked about why it's bad, and ways that it could be better, at least your feedback might be useful for something[/QUOTE] Yes please show me where Blizzard are getting their claimed "majority of feedback" "WE LOVE PVP DISRUPTOR WARS" It's a random unit that can end games in 1 shot its extremely volatile and luck based. Blizzard has tried to get away from "volatile" game play yet they managed to create this unit. The wow and excitement factor Blizzard are talking about is not there, and what little excitement there is will dissapear as people will win games they dont diserve to win because of this badly designed unit. Just like the swarm host the cost efficiency potential is beyond anything you can possibly justify. You are going to see games in Korea where players will insta GG out of the game too 1 disruptor shot hit in big matches. | ||
|
Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On December 07 2015 18:14 egrimm wrote: disruptor shots just shouldn't be able to "phase" through units and therefore also forcefields, buildings etc. That would allow for some counter play with units blocking path with their bodies in wall for example. Ofc it is a obvious nerf to disruptor so to keep balance is same place I suggested slightly reducing Nova cooldown which also would help with more consistent dmg output with disruptors. They don't phase through buildings, that's one way to defend disruptors shots by the way, you put one spore crawler in your mineral line and you mineral walk your drones at the other side of the spore crawler, and it will block the nova. I actually really like Disruptors, except in PvP, which might be fixed by giving to forcefield the ability to block it. | ||
| ||
