@Anyone angry at Kespa, they are doing what it takes to protect their product based on first hand experiences from this happening five years ago. You can't blame them for their demands as they are absolutely understandable.
i can see why they wouldn't want to be associated. but what exactly are kespa doing to prevent the match fixing happening in the first place? we've still got the absurdly top-heavy payout structures in individual leagues, leaving anything other than the absolute elite of the elite making next to nothing (to be fair, wcs finals are equally ridiculous). proleague's stagnant - skt's the main sponsor so it's not like kespa has been able to attract any new sponsorship interest given they own one of the teams already. i'd be surprised if they can replace prime next season. gstl's gone. there's little to nothing in terms of non-gsl/ssl tournaments that lower tier players can compete in. say for example soulkey was breaking through now instead of five years ago - what's there for him to play in?
sure, kespa can say what they like re: afreeca, but it's a bit two faced to bring down the banhammer re: players that have been stupid enough to get caught, and then ignore the landscape that's causing players to match fix in the first place, and also be happy to brush incredibly likely cases under the rug when they do occur.
The request to ban the streamers is directly in line with the movement to show that esports is clean of matchfixing and doesn't tolerate it at all. The BW matchfixing was directly responsible for destroying the reputation of the esports industry to the ground and driving away sponsors that didn't want to be associated with tainted image of the scene. It's very difficult to convince your sponsors that the scene is now clean of matchfixing if one of the main tournament organizers is also supporting a culprit streaming happily side-by-side to the very tournament he matchfixed in. The distinction between streaming and competitive gaming is very small for an outsider.
do u still believe this crap ? ...
kespa vs blizzard killed bw
After everything I've seen and learned of in the last week (not just in Korea, but again in my own back yard), I am 100% certain Blizzard only cares about the money and doesn't give a shit about merit. In many ways, it reminds me of what Richard Lewis was talking about when he said, "The good days of eSports will be gone soon." In his interview with Lycan on TLG a few months ago.
Richard Lewis is great but the guy's the eternal pessimist. How often has he "threatened" to quit, he just did recently, and a while ago he wrote an article that made a bunch of dumb gamers lose their shit and he said he considered quitting. More recently he was completely shaken by a death threat or something, and said something about how the gaming scene is toxic and he should leave it. Richard Lewis is the embodiment of mood swings, and when he's feeling bad, you'll get doomsday predictions from him.
eSports are very clearly trending up with games like LoL (sigh) and CSGO reaching levels never seen before, and Blizzard missed the train.
I don't know what Richard Lewis said, but for me personally the good days of eSports are going to be over soon. After SC2 is out of the picture (hopefully at least another 5-6 years) I'm not sure if we'll ever get a big hardcore 1v1 eSport again. Big publishers are going to want to greenlight eSports that are team games and have mass appeal. Future eSports are going to have their gameplay designed around skins, microtransactions and frequent content updates.
This is stupid. Why was such a huge deal made about match fixing in the first place. I know gambling is illegal in Korea, but this is ridicullous. You'd be hard pressed to find a sport that isn't plagued with match fixing even now. It's just a part of professional sports. Is it right? Probably not. Is it the armageddon when it happens? No.
@Anyone angry at Kespa, they are doing what it takes to protect their product based on first hand experiences from this happening five years ago. You can't blame them for their demands as they are absolutely understandable.
i can see why they wouldn't want to be associated. but what exactly are kespa doing to prevent the match fixing happening in the first place? we've still got the absurdly top-heavy payout structures in individual leagues, leaving anything other than the absolute elite of the elite making next to nothing (to be fair, wcs finals are equally ridiculous). proleague's stagnant - skt's the main sponsor so it's not like kespa has been able to attract any new sponsorship interest given they own one of the teams already. i'd be surprised if they can replace prime next season. gstl's gone. there's little to nothing in terms of non-gsl/ssl tournaments that lower tier players can compete in. say for example soulkey was breaking through now instead of five years ago - what's there for him to play in?
sure, kespa can say what they like re: afreeca, but it's a bit two faced to bring down the banhammer re: players that have been stupid enough to get caught, and then ignore the landscape that's causing players to match fix in the first place, and also be happy to brush incredibly likely cases under the rug when they do occur.
The request to ban the streamers is directly in line with the movement to show that esports is clean of matchfixing and doesn't tolerate it at all. The BW matchfixing was directly responsible for destroying the reputation of the esports industry to the ground and driving away sponsors that didn't want to be associated with tainted image of the scene. It's very difficult to convince your sponsors that the scene is now clean of matchfixing if one of the main tournament organizers is also supporting a culprit streaming happily side-by-side to the very tournament he matchfixed in. The distinction between streaming and competitive gaming is very small for an outsider.
do u still believe this crap ? ...
kespa vs blizzard killed bw
After everything I've seen and learned of in the last week (not just in Korea, but again in my own back yard), I am 100% certain Blizzard only cares about the money and doesn't give a shit about merit. In many ways, it reminds me of what Richard Lewis was talking about when he said, "The good days of eSports will be gone soon." In his interview with Lycan on TLG a few months ago.
Richard Lewis is great but the guy's the eternal pessimist. How often has he "threatened" to quit, he just did recently, and a while ago he wrote an article that made a bunch of dumb gamers lose their shit and he said he considered quitting. More recently he was completely shaken by a death threat or something, and said something about how the gaming scene is toxic and he should leave it. Richard Lewis is the embodiment of mood swings, and when he's feeling bad, you'll get doomsday predictions from him.
eSports are very clearly trending up with games like LoL (sigh) and CSGO reaching levels never seen before, and Blizzard missed the train.
I don't know what Richard Lewis said, but for me personally the good days of eSports are going to be over soon. After SC2 is out of the picture (hopefully at least another 5-6 years) I'm not sure if we'll ever get a big hardcore 1v1 eSport again. Big publishers are going to want to greenlight eSports that are team games and have mass appeal. Future eSports are going to have their gameplay designed around skins, microtransactions and frequent content updates.
For me too I'm afraid. I can watch some Street Fighter and maybe some Hearthstone sometimes but nothing compares to StarCraft/ RTS as an esport. Let's hope it ends soon™ rather than soon.
On October 22 2015 22:00 nimdil wrote: GSL and their personal streams are different Afreeca channels.
Yet its the same company giving them a platform.
The Tour de France wouldn't allow advertisements for Lance Armstrong cycling lessons.
For starters TdF waited for court ruling, unlike KeSPA and Afreeca. Second, that's not fair comparison.
Comparisons to TdF aside, at the very least as the new owners and showrunners of the GSL, you know the largest and supposedly most prestigious SC2 tournament around, they shouldn't be associated with matchfixers at all, at least if they want to maintain any degree of credibility at all.
Like I said, if they weren't the new owners of the GSL this would all be a moot point and I'd agree that they shouldn't be banned.
People are referencing this quote so:
1) The accussed match fixers are NOT match fixers yet. There' no court ruling, the trial apparently didn't start yet. They were arrested but that doesn't mean they are all guilty. There was a report indicating their fellony and KeSPA immediately banned them without any hearing. That's just wrong.
2) Lance Armstrong advertising on TdF and match fixers streaming on Afreeca which also streams GSL are 2 different things. If match fixers streams were broadcasted in the same channel as GSL during GSL downtime, it would be comparable. Explanation TdF is run by Amaury Sport Organisation which in turn is owned by Amaury Group. They also own le Parisien, a newspaper. This newspaper has internet edition (not surprising) with their own video content not surprising) and look: here is interview with Lance Armstrong http://videos.leparisien.fr/video/lance-armstrong-jalabert-est-la-hinault-est-la-pourquoi-pas-moi-16-07-2015-x2y9fc6 on a bike, cycling an all in sports channel.
This is perfect comparison. Lance Armstrong cycling is streamed on a platform owned by owners of the most prestigious cycling event in the world which he fucked up hard.
On October 22 2015 22:00 nimdil wrote: GSL and their personal streams are different Afreeca channels.
Yet its the same company giving them a platform.
The Tour de France wouldn't allow advertisements for Lance Armstrong cycling lessons.
For starters TdF waited for court ruling, unlike KeSPA and Afreeca. Second, that's not fair comparison.
Comparisons to TdF aside, at the very least as the new owners and showrunners of the GSL, you know the largest and supposedly most prestigious SC2 tournament around, they shouldn't be associated with matchfixers at all, at least if they want to maintain any degree of credibility at all.
Like I said, if they weren't the new owners of the GSL this would all be a moot point and I'd agree that they shouldn't be banned.
People are referencing this quote so:
1) The accussed match fixers are NOT match fixers yet. There' no court ruling, the trial apparently didn't start yet. They were arrested but that doesn't mean they are all guilty. There was a report indicating their fellony and KeSPA immediately banned them without any hearing. That's just wrong.
2) Lance Armstrong advertising on TdF and match fixers streaming on Afreeca which also streams GSL are 2 different things. If match fixers streams were broadcasted in the same channel as GSL during GSL downtime, it would be comparable. Explanation TdF is run by Amaury Sport Organisation which in turn is owned by Amaury Group. They also own le Parisien, a newspaper. This newspaper has internet edition (not surprising) with their own video content not surprising) and look: here is interview with Lance Armstrong http://videos.leparisien.fr/video/lance-armstrong-jalabert-est-la-hinault-est-la-pourquoi-pas-moi-16-07-2015-x2y9fc6 on a bike, cycling an all in sports channel.
This is perfect comparison. Lance Armstrong cycling is streamed on a platform owned by owners of the most prestigious cycling event in the world which he fucked up hard.
That doesn't make it right (do i need to bold now ?). I don't understand why this guy can talk about cyclism anymore.
On October 23 2015 13:34 Heyoka wrote: can we not make this a nationalistic thing
I know right? That's what I've been trying to say - disagree with the ban as you will, but please don't insinuate that the Korean Starcraft community (or worse, its citizens as a whole) is a mindless mob blinded by emotions and driven by irrationality.
This Lance Armstrong comparison is ridiculous. What Afreeca have done is the equivalent of Armstrong not being able to sell magic beans on QVC because that channel happens to be in the same TV package that I get Eurosport from.
On October 22 2015 22:00 nimdil wrote: GSL and their personal streams are different Afreeca channels.
Yet its the same company giving them a platform.
The Tour de France wouldn't allow advertisements for Lance Armstrong cycling lessons.
For starters TdF waited for court ruling, unlike KeSPA and Afreeca. Second, that's not fair comparison.
Comparisons to TdF aside, at the very least as the new owners and showrunners of the GSL, you know the largest and supposedly most prestigious SC2 tournament around, they shouldn't be associated with matchfixers at all, at least if they want to maintain any degree of credibility at all.
Like I said, if they weren't the new owners of the GSL this would all be a moot point and I'd agree that they shouldn't be banned.
People are referencing this quote so:
1) The accussed match fixers are NOT match fixers yet. There' no court ruling, the trial apparently didn't start yet. They were arrested but that doesn't mean they are all guilty. There was a report indicating their fellony and KeSPA immediately banned them without any hearing. That's just wrong.
2) Lance Armstrong advertising on TdF and match fixers streaming on Afreeca which also streams GSL are 2 different things. If match fixers streams were broadcasted in the same channel as GSL during GSL downtime, it would be comparable. Explanation TdF is run by Amaury Sport Organisation which in turn is owned by Amaury Group. They also own le Parisien, a newspaper. This newspaper has internet edition (not surprising) with their own video content not surprising) and look: here is interview with Lance Armstrong http://videos.leparisien.fr/video/lance-armstrong-jalabert-est-la-hinault-est-la-pourquoi-pas-moi-16-07-2015-x2y9fc6 on a bike, cycling an all in sports channel.
This is perfect comparison. Lance Armstrong cycling is streamed on a platform owned by owners of the most prestigious cycling event in the world which he fucked up hard.
That doesn't make it right (do i need to bold now ?). I don't understand why this guy can talk about cyclism anymore.
To be fair I don't think he should be invited to the press at all for any reason (with possible exception to "how is it to live on transfusions and EPO"), much like people shouldn't want to watch Yoda's (assuming he will be find guilty) or sAviOr's streams. That doesn't really justify them being banned for ability to try to be watched/seen/cycling outside professional fedearations.
On October 23 2015 15:44 Qikz wrote: This is stupid. Why was such a huge deal made about match fixing in the first place. I know gambling is illegal in Korea, but this is ridicullous. You'd be hard pressed to find a sport that isn't plagued with match fixing even now. It's just a part of professional sports. Is it right? Probably not. Is it the armageddon when it happens? No.
yeh I agree. Even in football, the biggest sport in the world, a lot of match fixing goes on. In the football thread on TL Stealthblue posted an article about match fixing in El Classico. That is one of the biggest matches there is.
On October 23 2015 18:56 sixfour wrote: This Lance Armstrong comparison is ridiculous. What Afreeca have done is the equivalent of Armstrong not being able to sell magic beans on QVC because that channel happens to be in the same TV package that I get Eurosport from.
Yes, because selling magic beans on QVC is completely equal to using the audience that remained from the hard work of people left in the scene after almost causing the end of it. Completely the same.
Seriously you guys need to start making better comparisons, because almost none of them makes sense whatsoever.
@Anyone angry at Kespa, they are doing what it takes to protect their product based on first hand experiences from this happening five years ago. You can't blame them for their demands as they are absolutely understandable.
i can see why they wouldn't want to be associated. but what exactly are kespa doing to prevent the match fixing happening in the first place? we've still got the absurdly top-heavy payout structures in individual leagues, leaving anything other than the absolute elite of the elite making next to nothing (to be fair, wcs finals are equally ridiculous). proleague's stagnant - skt's the main sponsor so it's not like kespa has been able to attract any new sponsorship interest given they own one of the teams already. i'd be surprised if they can replace prime next season. gstl's gone. there's little to nothing in terms of non-gsl/ssl tournaments that lower tier players can compete in. say for example soulkey was breaking through now instead of five years ago - what's there for him to play in?
sure, kespa can say what they like re: afreeca, but it's a bit two faced to bring down the banhammer re: players that have been stupid enough to get caught, and then ignore the landscape that's causing players to match fix in the first place, and also be happy to brush incredibly likely cases under the rug when they do occur.
The request to ban the streamers is directly in line with the movement to show that esports is clean of matchfixing and doesn't tolerate it at all. The BW matchfixing was directly responsible for destroying the reputation of the esports industry to the ground and driving away sponsors that didn't want to be associated with tainted image of the scene. It's very difficult to convince your sponsors that the scene is now clean of matchfixing if one of the main tournament organizers is also supporting a culprit streaming happily side-by-side to the very tournament he matchfixed in. The distinction between streaming and competitive gaming is very small for an outsider.
do u still believe this crap ? ...
kespa vs blizzard killed bw
After everything I've seen and learned of in the last week (not just in Korea, but again in my own back yard), I am 100% certain Blizzard only cares about the money and doesn't give a shit about merit. In many ways, it reminds me of what Richard Lewis was talking about when he said, "The good days of eSports will be gone soon." In his interview with Lycan on TLG a few months ago.
Richard Lewis is great but the guy's the eternal pessimist. How often has he "threatened" to quit, he just did recently, and a while ago he wrote an article that made a bunch of dumb gamers lose their shit and he said he considered quitting. More recently he was completely shaken by a death threat or something, and said something about how the gaming scene is toxic and he should leave it. Richard Lewis is the embodiment of mood swings, and when he's feeling bad, you'll get doomsday predictions from him.
eSports are very clearly trending up with games like LoL (sigh) and CSGO reaching levels never seen before, and Blizzard missed the train.
I don't know what Richard Lewis said, but for me personally the good days of eSports are going to be over soon. After SC2 is out of the picture (hopefully at least another 5-6 years) I'm not sure if we'll ever get a big hardcore 1v1 eSport again. Big publishers are going to want to greenlight eSports that are team games and have mass appeal. Future eSports are going to have their gameplay designed around skins, microtransactions and frequent content updates.
I mean, it doesn't matter what eSports are "for you". I couldn't care less about LoL, I even loathe it a little, same for DOTA2, but it's still a sign that eSports are doing great internationally. Barring some huge crash, money is here.
Korea had a stable scene, now the entire world does, with more money, better production than ever before. Hell, tournaments are generally able to pay players now. As sad as it may be to lose SC2, gotta realize that the scene in general is thriving. Granted, there are shortcomings and problems, but nothing that would indicate imminent doom to me.
On October 23 2015 12:56 Doodsmack wrote: So basically South Koreans take their discipline and sense of honor and morality to extreme levels, and Afreeca caved to that. Remind me never to move to South Korea.
Thanks
LMFAO Highly doubt South Korea will want anything to do with you. Seriously, what makes you think that South Korea wants you in anyway?
These children think that South Korea owes them something because they watch eSports. SMH
On October 23 2015 15:44 Qikz wrote: This is stupid. Why was such a huge deal made about match fixing in the first place. I know gambling is illegal in Korea, but this is ridicullous. You'd be hard pressed to find a sport that isn't plagued with match fixing even now. It's just a part of professional sports. Is it right? Probably not. Is it the armageddon when it happens? No.
Probably because this sport is actually relies on good will of the sponsors in the country it's most popular in to stay afloat? A matchfixing scandal in the NBA wouldn't cause half the teams to suddenly drop out of existence with in the year because of how much popularity and money is already in the sport.
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote: we should boycott kespa because they suck
who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...
Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?
You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.
esports and streaming go hand in hand. Would we have the esports scene we have if not for the explosion of twitch? And would we have twitch if not for the esports? + Show Spoiler +
and by "twitch" I mean "streaming" and by "esports" I mean "competitive gaming" - yes, both existed prior to 2010 but both saw major (comparatively linear) growth since
Match-fixing FUNDAMENTALLY corrupts the efforts of those trying to arrange competition. The whole point of sport ('e' or otherwise) is to compete.
If Lance Armstrong had a show on ESPN prior to getting caught as a cheater he would have been fired / taken off the air and ESPN would have been apologizing and probably suing him!
If the legal system in SK finds these people innocent we can all throw flaming pitchforks at KeSPA until they're unbanned (unless we're talking about O.J. "innocent").
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote: we should boycott kespa because they suck
who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...
Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?
You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote: we should boycott kespa because they suck
who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...
Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?
You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.
In golf you aren't pressed for milliseconds.
So you are a progamer who can press thousands upon thousands of keys every minute with precision and accuracy and can't press 4 keys in a sequence with in a relatively lenient time frame? What's the excuse there then?
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote: we should boycott kespa because they suck
who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...
Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?
You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.
In golf you aren't pressed for milliseconds.
Kespa is the only organization that has managed to keep a team league together for Starcraft for 15 years. You don't have to agree with everything they do, but the hate really is unwarranted. But sure, boycott the one group that is actually successful and profitable at providing the best SC content in the world.
EPT
