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AfreecaTV bans matchfixers' streams - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
277 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next All
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11286 Posts
October 23 2015 14:48 GMT
#201
The pp ruling was harsh but it's the rules. I mean remember RuBy vs FlaSh where FlaSh won the game because RuBy accidentally exited before the game started. And it's not like it was revised to recognize the times when keyboards go haywire.
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3748 Posts
October 23 2015 14:58 GMT
#202
On October 23 2015 23:42 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 23:34 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:27 Caihead wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:09 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote:
we should boycott kespa because they suck

who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...


Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?


You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.


In golf you aren't pressed for milliseconds.

Kespa is the only organization that has managed to keep a team league together for Starcraft for 15 years. You don't have to agree with everything they do, but the hate really is unwarranted. But sure, boycott the one group that is actually successful and profitable at providing the best SC content in the world.

Proleague is excellent product but KeSPA's specific rulings frequently is on a different level and in sad way.

Of course there's the fact that international fans are at best secondary for them so will rule based on Korean market and community.
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
October 23 2015 18:14 GMT
#203
On October 23 2015 23:27 Caihead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 23:09 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote:
we should boycott kespa because they suck

who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...


Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?


You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.

I like that argument. It should have some sort of latin logical fallacy name specific to it. "Something is worse therefore it is acceptable."
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
October 23 2015 18:37 GMT
#204
On October 24 2015 03:14 Djzapz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 23:27 Caihead wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:09 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote:
we should boycott kespa because they suck

who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...


Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?


You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.

I like that argument. It should have some sort of latin logical fallacy name specific to it. "Something is worse therefore it is acceptable."

The question was "who else".
The answer is a shit tonne of other professional sports organizations.
Or am I just supposed to sarcastically snark and shit over the one organization holding the korean scene together in a circle jerk?
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 20:39:03
October 23 2015 18:50 GMT
#205
On October 24 2015 03:37 Caihead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 03:14 Djzapz wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:27 Caihead wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:09 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote:
we should boycott kespa because they suck

who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...


Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?


You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.

I like that argument. It should have some sort of latin logical fallacy name specific to it. "Something is worse therefore it is acceptable."

The question was "who else".
The answer is a shit tonne of other professional sports organizations.
Or am I just supposed to sarcastically snark and shit over the one organization holding the korean scene together in a circle jerk?

Well it was a rhetorical question. He was not really asking who else does it, because no one else does anything remotely close to dq'ing people for "ppp", and you have to go quite far away from eSports to find something as crazy, and even then it's an absolutely stupid rule which at least has some basis in rationality, it's to prevent people from cheating. Only KESPA is nuts enough to dq a player for a typo. That shit is insane.

And no you're not supposed to join the alleged circlejerk, but wow golf? Nice try...
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28475 Posts
October 23 2015 19:02 GMT
#206
How did this turn into a discussion about the ppp incident!?

Haha, wow
I Protoss winner, could it be?
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 19:30:58
October 23 2015 19:30 GMT
#207
is Kespa keeping the scene together or do they strive to monopolize the scene that they already have a strangle hold on?

i may not be the most informed... but i get the impression Kespa needs a large dose of Don't be Evil.

What was all that fuss about kespa players can't play in GSL until we allow them to. Oh kespa thanks for allowing!
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3748 Posts
October 23 2015 19:56 GMT
#208
On October 24 2015 04:30 mishimaBeef wrote:
is Kespa keeping the scene together or do they strive to monopolize the scene that they already have a strangle hold on?

i may not be the most informed... but i get the impression Kespa needs a large dose of Don't be Evil.

What was all that fuss about kespa players can't play in GSL until we allow them to. Oh kespa thanks for allowing!


Perhaps the sole reason KeSPA kept the scene together was because they kind of monopolized it. And to be fair - is it more of a monopoly than i.e. NHL?
egernya
Profile Joined March 2013
Canada352 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 20:10:49
October 23 2015 20:07 GMT
#209
It seems many people here think Kespa tried to boycott GSl, but that's wrong. Kespa never said they were going to boycott . There was only one article that boycotting GSL was discussed as far as I know, and it only said that some of players and coaches were considering boycotting GSL. You may say that Kespa manipulated them to express such idea from behind, but ever since Savior started his first streaming, a lot of players, ex-players, and coaches expressed how unpleasant they felt that the person who ruined the gaming scene making money with gaming.

You may not agree with those people, but that't majority of progaming scene, and regardless that's right or wrong, I think it's enough to show that boycotting was not forced by kespa like years ago when they boycotted gsl, but it was rather voluntary actions from many players. So it's not really Kespa being evil, but the players expressing their opinion, and trying to achieving what they wanted. Although I think it was their just right, but if you think that's wrong, then the evil ones are not Kespa, but the players and the coaches.

Also, In my opinion, Afreeca had to choose either Savior, Hwasin, and etc or so many other players and teams as their business partner, and they just chose the bigger one with greater profit for them.
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 20:10:47
October 23 2015 20:08 GMT
#210
well... a few things

1. we are on a digital medium not a physical one
2. just because NHL does it ... are we going with the 'it's always been done that way' argument?

seems to me korean players are happy to get out of kespa and join foreign teams... what is that about the 'rigorous practice' regime they enforce?
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
October 23 2015 20:13 GMT
#211
On October 24 2015 05:07 egernya wrote:
It seems many people here think Kespa tried to boycott GSl, but that's wrong. Kespa never said they were going to boycott . There was only one article that boycotting GSL was discussed as far as I know, and it only said that some of players and coaches were considering boycotting GSL. You may say that Kespa manipulated them to express such idea from behind, but ever since Savior started his first streaming, a lot of players, ex-players, and coaches expressed how unpleasant they felt that the person who ruined the gaming scene making money with gaming.

You may not agree with those people, but that't majority of progaming scene, and regardless that's right or wrong, I think it's enough to show that boycotting was not forced by kespa like years ago when they boycotted gsl, but it was rather voluntary actions from many players. So it's not really Kespa being evil, but the players expressing their opinion, and trying to achieving what they wanted. Although I think it was their just right, but if you think that's wrong, then the evil ones are not Kespa, but the players and the coaches.

Also, In my opinion, Afreeca had to choose either Savior, Hwasin, and etc or so many other players and teams as their business partner, and they just chose the bigger one with greater profit for them.


are you referring to "KESPA Players Allowed to play in GSL Season 4" ?
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
egernya
Profile Joined March 2013
Canada352 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 20:17:27
October 23 2015 20:15 GMT
#212
On October 24 2015 05:13 mishimaBeef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 05:07 egernya wrote:
It seems many people here think Kespa tried to boycott GSl, but that's wrong. Kespa never said they were going to boycott . There was only one article that boycotting GSL was discussed as far as I know, and it only said that some of players and coaches were considering boycotting GSL. You may say that Kespa manipulated them to express such idea from behind, but ever since Savior started his first streaming, a lot of players, ex-players, and coaches expressed how unpleasant they felt that the person who ruined the gaming scene making money with gaming.

You may not agree with those people, but that't majority of progaming scene, and regardless that's right or wrong, I think it's enough to show that boycotting was not forced by kespa like years ago when they boycotted gsl, but it was rather voluntary actions from many players. So it's not really Kespa being evil, but the players expressing their opinion, and trying to achieving what they wanted. Although I think it was their just right, but if you think that's wrong, then the evil ones are not Kespa, but the players and the coaches.

Also, In my opinion, Afreeca had to choose either Savior, Hwasin, and etc or so many other players and teams as their business partner, and they just chose the bigger one with greater profit for them.


are you referring to "KESPA Players Allowed to play in GSL Season 4" ?

I don't remember which GSL it was, but if you meant when Kespa and ESF fought, yes. I've seen lots of people saying like "OMG the evil Kespa is back, and they are now even worse monopolizing the scene."
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3748 Posts
October 23 2015 20:20 GMT
#213
On October 24 2015 05:08 mishimaBeef wrote:
well... a few things

1. we are on a digital medium not a physical one
2. just because NHL does it ... are we going with the 'it's always been done that way' argument?

seems to me korean players are happy to get out of kespa and join foreign teams... what is that about the 'rigorous practice' regime they enforce?

I'm saying the associations behave that way frequently.
Look - you generally have one federation for each sport per country. AS for the professional it's a bit more different - you have ATP and WTA for tennis, only FIFA for football on global level, Box is a mess but but FIVB - again - is a monpoly.

If you look at i.e. Kennel Clubs it's kind of similar. In some countries you have one (i.e. Germany AFAIK), in some there's only one really strong and the rest are just pseudo kennel clubs (i.e. Poland). You can't be in more than one kennel club.
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
October 23 2015 20:23 GMT
#214
On October 24 2015 03:50 Djzapz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 03:37 Caihead wrote:
On October 24 2015 03:14 Djzapz wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:27 Caihead wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:09 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote:
we should boycott kespa because they suck

who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...


Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?


You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.

I like that argument. It should have some sort of latin logical fallacy name specific to it. "Something is worse therefore it is acceptable."

The question was "who else".
The answer is a shit tonne of other professional sports organizations.
Or am I just supposed to sarcastically snark and shit over the one organization holding the korean scene together in a circle jerk?

Well it was a rhetorical question. He was not really asking who else does it, because no one else does anything remotely close to dq'ing people for "ppp", and you have to go quite far away from eSports to find something as crazy, and even then it's an absolutely stupid rule which at least has some basis in rationality, it's to prevent people from cheating. Only KESPA is nuts enough to dq a player for a typo.

And no you're not supposed to join the alleged circlejerk, but wow gold? Nice try...


Right... there's never been people DQ-ed in the esports arena for tweets, random comments, user names and barcodes, draconian region locks and sign up restrictions (fucking over Chinese players), tournament organizers themselves fucking up and not informing players of rescheduling...... Do I even need to refer to shit that happens out side of SC2?
MLG/WCS/ other reputable organizations would never do anything like that, only Kespa.
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 20:40:16
October 23 2015 20:38 GMT
#215
On October 24 2015 05:23 Caihead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 03:50 Djzapz wrote:
On October 24 2015 03:37 Caihead wrote:
On October 24 2015 03:14 Djzapz wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:27 Caihead wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:09 mishimaBeef wrote:
On October 23 2015 11:21 mishimaBeef wrote:
we should boycott kespa because they suck

who else would disqualify a player for typing "pp" instead of "ppp" before pausing...


Guys can we give this the attention it deserves?


You can get disqualified in Golf for making a mistake writing the score yourself (even though there are professional score keepers watching everybody) even if you immediately realize the mistake. There's plenty of stupid DQ rules in sports.

I like that argument. It should have some sort of latin logical fallacy name specific to it. "Something is worse therefore it is acceptable."

The question was "who else".
The answer is a shit tonne of other professional sports organizations.
Or am I just supposed to sarcastically snark and shit over the one organization holding the korean scene together in a circle jerk?

Well it was a rhetorical question. He was not really asking who else does it, because no one else does anything remotely close to dq'ing people for "ppp", and you have to go quite far away from eSports to find something as crazy, and even then it's an absolutely stupid rule which at least has some basis in rationality, it's to prevent people from cheating. Only KESPA is nuts enough to dq a player for a typo.

And no you're not supposed to join the alleged circlejerk, but wow gold? Nice try...


Right... there's never been people DQ-ed in the esports arena for tweets, random comments, user names and barcodes, draconian region locks and sign up restrictions (fucking over Chinese players), tournament organizers themselves fucking up and not informing players of rescheduling...... Do I even need to refer to shit that happens out side of SC2?
MLG/WCS/ other reputable organizations would never do anything like that, only Kespa.

I haven't heard of anything as bad as ppp but I guess I haven't been paying attention to all the shit you people have been putting up with while CSGO has been healthy... Still that brings me back to my first point, just because shit is the norm doesn't mean you should put up with it.

Why anyone would cheer for KESPA when it's responsible for some of the filthiest behaviors is akin to the stockholm syndrome.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Circumstance
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States11403 Posts
October 23 2015 21:00 GMT
#216
Simply because the people making the ruling have had a questionable past, it doesn't change the fact that this decision, in this situation, happens to be right.
The world is better when every background has a chance.
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 23:00:21
October 23 2015 21:56 GMT
#217
uh-huh... and how does this decision help starcraft?

i guess it's an attempt to further scare away future match fixers?

also i still don't understand how it's just to ban the bw match fixers now...

hey BW guys, remember when you stole from us and we punished you? well more people stole from us so we're gonna punish you again
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
October 24 2015 02:15 GMT
#218
On October 23 2015 01:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 01:55 wo1fwood wrote:
question, but won't this have far larger ramifications for BW streamers than SC2?

Like what?

like isn't sc2 is largely nonexistent on afreeca by comparison to bw?
Administrator
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
October 24 2015 03:10 GMT
#219
On October 24 2015 11:15 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 01:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On October 23 2015 01:55 wo1fwood wrote:
question, but won't this have far larger ramifications for BW streamers than SC2?

Like what?

like isn't sc2 is largely nonexistent on afreeca by comparison to bw?

You're right, it doesn't affect the SC2 matchfixers at all really.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
October 24 2015 12:56 GMT
#220
On October 23 2015 13:08 pure.Wasted wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 12:56 Doodsmack wrote:
So basically South Koreans take their discipline and sense of honor and morality to extreme levels, and Afreeca caved to that. Remind me never to move to South Korea.

Thanks


Did you know that if you commit a felony in the US, you can never ever become a police officer?

Did you know that if a US soldier is dishonorably discharged, s/he can never ever work as a government employee in any capacity?

Just a friendly reminder that you may need to move out of the United States.

edit: to be perfectly clear, I'm not bashing America, I'm bashing your shoddy nationalistic "argument."


Police officers and army soldiers are pretty narrow examples. I'm fine with both of those things. Korean netizens actually felt so strongly that they boycotted Afreeca. That's the citizenry, and their beliefs, rather than government rules about what some government occupations can do.
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