EPTqxc's Thoughts: Archon Mode - Page 3
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cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
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yoshi245
United States2974 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On July 26 2015 07:56 yoshi245 wrote: Would love to see Archon mode in proleague. Imagine Flash macro with Life micro. How devastating would that be. Yes, but what race would they play?  | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
Protoss | ||
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yoshi245
United States2974 Posts
Random would be hillarious. But I think as Toss or Terran would be best for the Life/Flash archon. | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 26 2015 07:56 yoshi245 wrote: Would love to see Archon mode in proleague. Imagine Flash macro with Life micro. How devastating would that be. i don't think this would work. i mean, what would life micro if flash goes 3cc and dies to a baneling bust | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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neteX
Sweden285 Posts
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though. | ||
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jekku
Canada1640 Posts
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL. I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though. How about Multiplayer archon mode? 3v3 Team Game Each "Player" in Archon Mode 12 Players playing total. | ||
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qxc
United States550 Posts
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL. I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though. Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot. | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On July 28 2015 07:02 qxc wrote: Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot. To emphasize this further. MOBAs are not difficult to play. None of their stuff are taxing at the least. What is hard in a MOBA is a communication. Because there is 5 of you able to do 5 things at one time, what is difficult in a MOBA is communicating the needs of the whole to the individuals within the team. But the game itself is very easy. The same is not true for SC2. Splitting up responsibilities in SC2 will do GREAT things for casual play because it puts emphasis on communication and interaction over click mechanics. | ||
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pNRG
United States333 Posts
On July 24 2015 02:24 Fiallach wrote: A bit of background: i'm terrible at starcraft. Archon mode made starcraft playable for me. It is actually fun! I don't get this feeling of drowning anymore when i have to handle 200 things at once, especially in the late game. We split micro / macro. When i macro, i focus on the build order , the unit comps my friends asks me to tweak, and getting a perfect production, when microing, i have to look for what the enemy is doing and handle the army and the defense. At my level, any one of those tasks is doable. I'm still pretty bad, but it doesn't feel physically taxing anymore. The game is way more balanced like that than in 2v2, and i can try to do stuff that look like what the pros are doing, like microing my reapers, or my drops without the economy collapsing at home! So, for me, a casual player who stopped playing because starcraft, when you have a stressing life is way too much, archon mode is a 10/10. I would like to see a serious league for that kind of thing. 2 top players playing together, and who trained to be good at collaboration could blow our minds i think. We're going to need archon observers to see all that's going on! I very much agree with you here. I am definitely looking forward to playing some Archon mode with some friends! | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On July 28 2015 07:02 qxc wrote: Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot. I don't think it's a fair assessment to say archon mode is mechanically easier. It's just different. Even though each player is focusing on less tasks overall, the players can still differentiate their skill by performing each macro/micro task perfectly. There's always something more you can be doing in starcraft. It's not like your keyboard is ever idle. At the end of the day, archon teams will still lose 50% of the time just like any other mode. | ||
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SinO[Ob]
France898 Posts
On July 29 2015 05:04 pNRG wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 24 2015 02:24 Fiallach wrote: A bit of background: i'm terrible at starcraft. Archon mode made starcraft playable for me. It is actually fun! I don't get this feeling of drowning anymore when i have to handle 200 things at once, especially in the late game. We split micro / macro. When i macro, i focus on the build order , the unit comps my friends asks me to tweak, and getting a perfect production, when microing, i have to look for what the enemy is doing and handle the army and the defense. At my level, any one of those tasks is doable. I'm still pretty bad, but it doesn't feel physically taxing anymore. The game is way more balanced like that than in 2v2, and i can try to do stuff that look like what the pros are doing, like microing my reapers, or my drops without the economy collapsing at home! So, for me, a casual player who stopped playing because starcraft, when you have a stressing life is way too much, archon mode is a 10/10. I would like to see a serious league for that kind of thing. 2 top players playing together, and who trained to be good at collaboration could blow our minds i think. We're going to need archon observers to see all that's going on! I very much agree with you here. I am definitely looking forward to playing some Archon mode with some friends! Same here! I play 1v1 no problem but I have hard time not being too serious when Im playing :p. I tried archon way less pressure so more fun! And a some of my friends who didnt played SC2, wanted to try it with me. I think this mod will really help the growing of SC2  . | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On July 30 2015 00:31 TRaFFiC wrote: I don't think it's a fair assessment to say archon mode is mechanically easier. It's just different. Even though each player is focusing on less tasks overall, the players can still differentiate their skill by performing each macro/micro task perfectly. There's always something more you can be doing in starcraft. It's not like your keyboard is ever idle. At the end of the day, archon teams will still lose 50% of the time just like any other mode. Its easier because the limits of resource availability is still restricted to a 1v1 matchup despite there being 4 players. Unlike a 2v2, where if you have a weak partner you are facing as much as 400 supply worth of enemy troops, archon mode keeps stakes in the 1v1 world where most bad players either don't micro or don't macro. Archon mode fixes the attention limit of new players by giving them specific tasks needed for 1v1 to work adequately. The upper limits of archon mode is exciting specifically because of the possibility of actual SC2 + Moba qualities it provides. You finally can have someone be able to (as an example) harass with 2-3 clumps of Mutas in 2-6 different locations and not have to worry about defense and macro since someone else is handling that. And the guy playing Macro only needs to say something like "defend 3rd" to automatically recall harass groups from all those locations and have them effectively engage the advancing enemy troops while the ground army is being defensively setup by the macro player. Those upper levels of play will still be unattainable by new players. But to experience SC2 as a baseline--archon mode rocks. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On July 30 2015 01:44 TMagpie wrote: Its easier because the limits of resource availability is still restricted to a 1v1 matchup despite there being 4 players. Unlike a 2v2, where if you have a weak partner you are facing as much as 400 supply worth of enemy troops, archon mode keeps stakes in the 1v1 world where most bad players either don't micro or don't macro. Archon mode fixes the attention limit of new players by giving them specific tasks needed for 1v1 to work adequately. The upper limits of archon mode is exciting specifically because of the possibility of actual SC2 + Moba qualities it provides. You finally can have someone be able to (as an example) harass with 2-3 clumps of Mutas in 2-6 different locations and not have to worry about defense and macro since someone else is handling that. And the guy playing Macro only needs to say something like "defend 3rd" to automatically recall harass groups from all those locations and have them effectively engage the advancing enemy troops while the ground army is being defensively setup by the macro player. Those upper levels of play will still be unattainable by new players. But to experience SC2 as a baseline--archon mode rocks. Sure, I'll agree it's easier to carry in Archon Mode. But with 2 players of equal skill I think the jury is still out on whether 2v2 isn't just as easy. | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On July 30 2015 05:48 TRaFFiC wrote: Sure, I'll agree it's easier to carry in Archon Mode. But with 2 players of equal skill I think the jury is still out on whether 2v2 isn't just as easy. Archon will always be easier because you only 1 base worth of production being sent against you instead of 2 bases worth of production. EDIT: For clarification--the hardest part of 2v2 and Archon Mode will be the same as in any MOBA; communication. Things are easier to do in a team, this is not in question. Things are easier if less things are able to run at you, this is also not in question. But the skill ceiling of any team based game is several magnitudes higher than ANY 1 player game. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On July 30 2015 06:14 TMagpie wrote: Archon will always be easier because you only 1 base worth of production being sent against you instead of 2 bases worth of production. EDIT: For clarification--the hardest part of 2v2 and Archon Mode will be the same as in any MOBA; communication. Things are easier to do in a team, this is not in question. Things are easier if less things are able to run at you, this is also not in question. But the skill ceiling of any team based game is several magnitudes higher than ANY 1 player game. Things are easier to do in team. < Not necessarily. Things are easier if less things can run at you. <Not necessarily. the skill ceiling of any team based game is several magnitudes higher than ANY 1 player game. <Disagree. Different kinds of skill. Right out of the gateway with no prep work required, 2v2 is easier to get into. You don't need the same level of coordination with your ally as in Archon mode. You just expand, defend, mass up to 150-200 supply and then a-move with your ally's army in the general direction of the enemy. It usually lags too hard to micro even if you want to. The distribution of responsibilities is very clear. You control your army. He controls his. You don't need to chat at all. Just beacon when you move out. It's two different modes of play which each require their own specific skill sets. I don't think either one is easier. | ||
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