Everything stated here is my opinion unless noted and/or cited otherwise. As a progamer for several years now, I have a wealth of personal experience and observations to draw upon. With that said, I sometimes have to speculate due to lack of studies/concrete facts.
What is archon mode? Archon mode is a version of 1v1 where two (currently) players operate as one. Imagine a normal 1v1 where each side had two players managing it instead of one.
For veterans of Starcraft, you already know that ‘archon’ mode has been around for years. In Broodwar, it was known as team melee. So, what's the big deal? Team melee was a neat idea that held some people’s interest but eventually faded away. In recent times, we’ve identified some inherent problems with Starcraft’s ladder and archon mode seeks to fill a void in the experience. Starcraft 1v1 ladder is generally a pretty anti-social experience. Archon mode allows players to experience the full competitive beauty of Starcraft (the game is not as balanced/well designed for actual team games) while doing so with a friend. In addition, archon mode allows players of drastically different skills to enjoy 1v1 together.
It is important to note that one of Starcraft’s most defining elements is its incredible difficulty and the amount of tasks that can be done at any time. Starcraft requires a near constant investment in energy and focus from start to finish to multi task all across the map and perform everything required. In 1v1, that means making strategic cuts of attention. As soon as a drop or set of units is doomed, it’s important to look away in order to focus on other parts of the game that can benefit from your attention. In archon mode, players can get closer to doing ‘everything’; perfect macro while maintaining map control and fighting on multiple fronts will be the norm.
So, what’s difference between regular 1v1 and archon mode? Simply put, you have the APM of both players combined as well as the ability to do and look at 2 completely separate things. In order to put that extra attention to good use you want to favor builds that allow 1 of the players to do a lot of heavy micro. Archon mode favors builds that are normally much more difficult to do optimally due to APM constraints such as early tank drops, proxy reaper, disruptor harass, or mass mutas. Any style that can be played with low APM won’t be fully utilizing the capacity of your team so deathball type strategies and heavy macro builds are generally less useful.
Opening fast tank drop in any matchup is a good example of a build with a huge difference in power between archon mode and 1v1. Tank drops are extremely effective when microed, but they have almost no utility if not microed consistently. Left alone, tank drops are similar to mutalisks in that they won’t really accomplish any damage. They are too fragile and expensive to be left alone or to be expended. The real value from tank drops comes from repeated harass and the ability to get a lot of damage done for ‘free’ which requires a huge attention investment. As such, tank drops really shine in archon mode as 1 player can dedicate their APM and attention to maximizing that investment.
While playing vs Vibe/Livibee I focused my entire attention on tank drops which resulted in a huge amount of damage done. In a 1v1, this level of micro is impossible to maintain due to macro requirements at home.
Mutalisk harass is another great example of a strategy that excels in archon mode. Due to their incredible mobility, mutalisks can more easily find and abuse holes in your opponent’s defenses. The problem is that finding those holes is very attention intensive and it’s hard to maintain consistent harass while also macroing back home or defending against drops. While mutalisk harass is obviously viable in standard 1v1, there is so much more potential to deal damage in archon mode because one player can do nothing but micro the mutalisks. Splitting mutalisks into smaller groups is another avenue so far barely explored.
In our game vs TRUE/DRG, a flock of mutalisks managed full time by one of the zergs creates a constant source of pressure while their macro remains as solid as ever.
As the game goes longer and longer, there is more potential to control the map and leverage the fact that you have 2 players capable of moving armies on the map. As more and more units appear, it becomes imperative to coordinate attacks with my partner so that they occur simultaneously on the map. This creates increased logistical strain on our opponents as they must figure out who will defend what attack and with which units.
The other critical difference comes from the fact that your archon is actually two different people. Archon mode requires clear communication so that both players are on the same page strategically as well as in the division of labor. The absolute worst thing to happen in archon mode is when both players try to do something with the same set of units. Those units will tend to walk back and forth and not accomplish either goal.
Archon mode is much easier to manage when players have a clear distinction in who controls what. Generally, one player is set to macro and defense while the other performs the main army control, maneuvering, scouting and map control. There is a significant attacker's advantage in archon mode because it forces the defender to create that clear distinction of control on the fly. It is much harder to split tasks appropriately without a predetermined order.
Tefel & Tomikus have a communication issue which disrupts their game plan.
Can one player beat two working together? Up to a certain point, two weaker players won’t have much of an advantage over a higher level player as the two working together still won’t approach optimal play in terms of build order or strategy. I am fairly confident that I could beat two ~mid masters players by myself. That said, as players get better and better it becomes more and more impossible for the single player to win. Playing against two high masters / low gm players might be too much. As the early game attention requirements are fairly low, archon mode doesn’t differentiate itself too much from a regular game in the first ~5-8 minutes. After that point, there's too much potential for multi tasking to overwhelm a single opponent.
Semper, who volunteered to play 1v2, is quickly picked apart as multi pronged attacks from both me and Beasty are executed at the same time.
Assuming archon mode catches on, it will become a medium for players of different skills to come together and enjoy 1v1. As archon mode is much more similar to actual 1v1 than any other mode currently in Starcraft, it may also be a better gateway for players to enter 1v1 ladder. Archon mode is poised be a more relaxed and social way to enjoy the incredible depth and complexity of Starcraft’s 1v1. While, it will never replace 1v1, there is plenty of potential for archon mode to spawn its own set of tournaments and followers.
I absolutely think Archon mode could be what (lower level) players play all the time in sc2 IF (and yes it is really that big of an if) Blizzard actually promotes it a lot. I doubt that the mode is enough to get player numbers like the big Valve titles, but i totally could imagine it being a huge factor in making sc2 to a pretty big game again.
If we look at the competetive side i think and hope that there will be tournaments and i also hope that Proleague might do one archon set per match. (bo7 here we come??!). Archon mode might be the single most important thing Blizzard did with LOTV so far, i hope they understand the potential and use it.
On July 24 2015 02:13 BisuDagger wrote: I want to see a 3 player maybe even 4 player per team archon mode. That'd be absolutely insane.
2v2 archon mode?
2 players control one "player" each. Imagine how fun (or not) that would be.
I think it makes the most sense in the 1vs1 environment cause it already is kinda balanced. Imagine a proleague game where they are playing 4vs4 in archon mode. KT vs SKT. Life, Zest, TY and Flash vs soO, Dream, Classic and Innovation They probably would 2 rax, lol
On July 24 2015 02:13 BisuDagger wrote: I want to see a 3 player maybe even 4 player per team archon mode. That'd be absolutely insane.
2v2 archon mode?
2 players control one "player" each. Imagine how fun (or not) that would be.
I think it makes the most sense in the 1vs1 environment cause it already is kinda balanced. Imagine a proleague game where they are playing 4vs4 in archon mode. KT vs SKT. Life, Zest, TY and Flash vs soO, Dream, Classic and Innovation They probably would 2 rax, lol
I feel like 4 players controlling one base, like Blind mentioned earlier would be a bit too many people for the amount of stuff that could happen.
A bit of background: i'm terrible at starcraft. Archon mode made starcraft playable for me. It is actually fun! I don't get this feeling of drowning anymore when i have to handle 200 things at once, especially in the late game. We split micro / macro. When i macro, i focus on the build order , the unit comps my friends asks me to tweak, and getting a perfect production, when microing, i have to look for what the enemy is doing and handle the army and the defense.
At my level, any one of those tasks is doable. I'm still pretty bad, but it doesn't feel physically taxing anymore.
The game is way more balanced like that than in 2v2, and i can try to do stuff that look like what the pros are doing, like microing my reapers, or my drops without the economy collapsing at home!
So, for me, a casual player who stopped playing because starcraft, when you have a stressing life is way too much, archon mode is a 10/10.
I would like to see a serious league for that kind of thing. 2 top players playing together, and who trained to be good at collaboration could blow our minds i think. We're going to need archon observers to see all that's going on!
On July 24 2015 02:13 BisuDagger wrote: I want to see a 3 player maybe even 4 player per team archon mode. That'd be absolutely insane.
2v2 archon mode?
2 players control one "player" each. Imagine how fun (or not) that would be.
I think it makes the most sense in the 1vs1 environment cause it already is kinda balanced. Imagine a proleague game where they are playing 4vs4 in archon mode. KT vs SKT. Life, Zest, TY and Flash vs soO, Dream, Classic and Innovation They probably would 2 rax, lol
I feel like 4 players controlling one base, like Blind mentioned earlier would be a bit too many people for the amount of stuff that could happen.
I don't know, i think there is almost no ceiling tbh. Pros can do stuff very, very fast in succession, but with this they literally can multitask. Archon mode with a lot of players would acually perfectly show which race has the most potential, kinda exciting if you ask me
On July 24 2015 02:13 BisuDagger wrote: I want to see a 3 player maybe even 4 player per team archon mode. That'd be absolutely insane.
2v2 archon mode?
2 players control one "player" each. Imagine how fun (or not) that would be.
I think it makes the most sense in the 1vs1 environment cause it already is kinda balanced. Imagine a proleague game where they are playing 4vs4 in archon mode. KT vs SKT. Life, Zest, TY and Flash vs soO, Dream, Classic and Innovation They probably would 2 rax, lol
I feel like 4 players controlling one base, like Blind mentioned earlier would be a bit too many people for the amount of stuff that could happen.
I don't know, i think there is almost no ceiling tbh. Pros can do stuff very, very fast in succession, but with this they literally can multitask. Archon mode with a lot of players would acually perfectly show which race has the most potential, kinda exciting if you ask me
I agree that it shows potential, but I feel like 4 players might be a bit too many, just with the fact that your base is of finite size, and your army is also finite. I can maybe see 3 players controlling the armies and 1 doing the mining, but at a certain point wouldn't you just get in each other's way? I think Twitch Plays demonstrated that pretty well.
edit: wow my 10kth post. I know what you might be thinking: "dude it's your 12051st post" but this is 10k non-Blizzcon shitposting posts.
I think that 3v3 might be the sweet spot on the archon mode number. Remember that the top ESports right now consist of teams. I find it extremely exciting to cheer for several favorite players at once. Last years SKT team could have had Parting+Rain+Classic on an archon team if this where possible. 2v2 or 3v3 would also cause teams to grow in size needing more players of each race to compete.
On July 24 2015 02:13 BisuDagger wrote: I want to see a 3 player maybe even 4 player per team archon mode. That'd be absolutely insane.
For really low level players and/or new players this could actually be interesting as you may have just one task to do with so many hands. I could imagine having fun with players new to Starcraft and RTS games in general this way. There are enough roles to fulfil in a single match.
For example you could do the following split:
The macro guy who just has to focus on macroing and nothing else. The main army guy who focuses on defending, positioning the main army and doing the big pushes etc. The harasser who's only job is to be as annoying as possible to the enemy all the time. And the commander who's job is to scout the enemy, meticulously watch the minimap, formulate stategy and counters, relay the necessary information to others and keep track of everything.
On July 24 2015 02:13 BisuDagger wrote: I want to see a 3 player maybe even 4 player per team archon mode. That'd be absolutely insane.
Inb4 we get Twitch plays StarCraft2, with thousands of players per team
Would you not watch that? Sounds like a fantastic idea. Imagine that account laddering.
I'd actually like to see a game where each player controls a single unit. Maybe throw in some mid-level commanders and a player at the top to dictate strategy.
ZvZ would be fantastic.
In more realistic hopes, I do like the prospect of 3v3 and 4v4 archonmodes, or a 2v2 where each of the four bases has two people manning it.
On July 24 2015 02:13 BisuDagger wrote: I want to see a 3 player maybe even 4 player per team archon mode. That'd be absolutely insane.
For really low level players and/or new players this could actually be interesting as you may have just one task to do with so many hands. I could imagine having fun with players new to Starcraft and RTS games in general this way. There are enough roles to fulfil in a single match.
For example you could do the following split:
The macro guy who just has to focus on macroing and nothing else. The main army guy who focuses on defending, positioning the main army and doing the big pushes etc. The harasser who's only job is to be as annoying as possible to the enemy all the time. And the commander who's job is to scout the enemy, meticulously watch the minimap, formulate stategy and counters, relay the necessary information to others and keep track of everything.
I love spectating the game but when I see some units not being micro'd properly I really want to do something about it. If there were 3+ players in archon mode I'd assume some players just want to watch the game unfold but would like the option to help if needed.
Without being too long winded, I think Archon mode is an excellent addition to SC and will (hopefully) reinvigorate the scene. I know I've been telling my friends about it who don't normally play SC, and explained it as a great way to ease them into the game. Traditional 2v2s never worked out, since it was too obvious I was carrying the team while they got beat up on, but Archon mode seems like a nice way to incorporate newer players.
awesome read, and great to see that qxc has a lot of the same ideas I've had. I do really like the thought of bringing some of my lower league friends into the game as well as new players.
I tried some Archon mode and found the difficulty of communicating the next moves in real time is rather stressful. I still see much potential in this mode; but I doubt it will be widely recognized as more relaxed.
I really hope archon mode will be popular and draw new players to the game, but I don't think balance problems affect the fun of 2v2 very much at the lower levels. I've been playing mostly 2v2 (since early 2012), casually with a friend, never gone beyond plat. It's not like we would be gm if we picked different races, and even though we regularly complain to each other about toss and zerg being imba (since we both play terran), the only reason I know that 2v2 is not balanced is because I've read about it on teamliquid. So what I'm saying is I don't really believe that noobs get turned off by 2v2 because of perceived lack of balance any more than they will get turned off by perceived lack of balance in 1v1 (whether true or not).
Love QXC.. however I really expected this to state more than the obvious. Here's the one line version: Archon mode makes the game more accessible and social, it requires strong communication skills and lets people focus one a single task.
Looking forward to Archon! It could also be an interesting choice for teaching weaker players how to get better, e.g. by assigning single tasks first, and then asking to combine them.
Nice article, but a little confused as to whether the point of it was a review of archon mode itself, or a point made in favor of restricting unit selection for the two players. Personally I think it will diminish the advantage of being 2 players significantly if, say, the macro player cannot control the units. IMO the advantage of archon mode almost exclusively consists of leaving a group of heavily microable units to the other player, while the macro player does most of the other work, which includes controlling units.
I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
Excellent article as usual from qxc. I do think it will help newer or more social ppl get into the 1v1 aspect of the game more. And like he said help ppl of different skill levels come together. Communication is IMPERATIVE though. I could definitely see it catching on competitively.
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot.
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot.
To emphasize this further.
MOBAs are not difficult to play. None of their stuff are taxing at the least. What is hard in a MOBA is a communication. Because there is 5 of you able to do 5 things at one time, what is difficult in a MOBA is communicating the needs of the whole to the individuals within the team. But the game itself is very easy. The same is not true for SC2. Splitting up responsibilities in SC2 will do GREAT things for casual play because it puts emphasis on communication and interaction over click mechanics.
On July 24 2015 02:24 Fiallach wrote: A bit of background: i'm terrible at starcraft. Archon mode made starcraft playable for me. It is actually fun! I don't get this feeling of drowning anymore when i have to handle 200 things at once, especially in the late game. We split micro / macro. When i macro, i focus on the build order , the unit comps my friends asks me to tweak, and getting a perfect production, when microing, i have to look for what the enemy is doing and handle the army and the defense.
At my level, any one of those tasks is doable. I'm still pretty bad, but it doesn't feel physically taxing anymore.
The game is way more balanced like that than in 2v2, and i can try to do stuff that look like what the pros are doing, like microing my reapers, or my drops without the economy collapsing at home!
So, for me, a casual player who stopped playing because starcraft, when you have a stressing life is way too much, archon mode is a 10/10.
I would like to see a serious league for that kind of thing. 2 top players playing together, and who trained to be good at collaboration could blow our minds i think. We're going to need archon observers to see all that's going on!
I very much agree with you here. I am definitely looking forward to playing some Archon mode with some friends!
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot.
I don't think it's a fair assessment to say archon mode is mechanically easier. It's just different. Even though each player is focusing on less tasks overall, the players can still differentiate their skill by performing each macro/micro task perfectly. There's always something more you can be doing in starcraft. It's not like your keyboard is ever idle.
At the end of the day, archon teams will still lose 50% of the time just like any other mode.
On July 24 2015 02:24 Fiallach wrote: A bit of background: i'm terrible at starcraft. Archon mode made starcraft playable for me. It is actually fun! I don't get this feeling of drowning anymore when i have to handle 200 things at once, especially in the late game. We split micro / macro. When i macro, i focus on the build order , the unit comps my friends asks me to tweak, and getting a perfect production, when microing, i have to look for what the enemy is doing and handle the army and the defense.
At my level, any one of those tasks is doable. I'm still pretty bad, but it doesn't feel physically taxing anymore.
The game is way more balanced like that than in 2v2, and i can try to do stuff that look like what the pros are doing, like microing my reapers, or my drops without the economy collapsing at home!
So, for me, a casual player who stopped playing because starcraft, when you have a stressing life is way too much, archon mode is a 10/10.
I would like to see a serious league for that kind of thing. 2 top players playing together, and who trained to be good at collaboration could blow our minds i think. We're going to need archon observers to see all that's going on!
I very much agree with you here. I am definitely looking forward to playing some Archon mode with some friends!
Same here! I play 1v1 no problem but I have hard time not being too serious when Im playing :p. I tried archon way less pressure so more fun! And a some of my friends who didnt played SC2, wanted to try it with me. I think this mod will really help the growing of SC2 .
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot.
I don't think it's a fair assessment to say archon mode is mechanically easier. It's just different. Even though each player is focusing on less tasks overall, the players can still differentiate their skill by performing each macro/micro task perfectly. There's always something more you can be doing in starcraft. It's not like your keyboard is ever idle.
At the end of the day, archon teams will still lose 50% of the time just like any other mode.
Its easier because the limits of resource availability is still restricted to a 1v1 matchup despite there being 4 players. Unlike a 2v2, where if you have a weak partner you are facing as much as 400 supply worth of enemy troops, archon mode keeps stakes in the 1v1 world where most bad players either don't micro or don't macro. Archon mode fixes the attention limit of new players by giving them specific tasks needed for 1v1 to work adequately.
The upper limits of archon mode is exciting specifically because of the possibility of actual SC2 + Moba qualities it provides. You finally can have someone be able to (as an example) harass with 2-3 clumps of Mutas in 2-6 different locations and not have to worry about defense and macro since someone else is handling that. And the guy playing Macro only needs to say something like "defend 3rd" to automatically recall harass groups from all those locations and have them effectively engage the advancing enemy troops while the ground army is being defensively setup by the macro player. Those upper levels of play will still be unattainable by new players. But to experience SC2 as a baseline--archon mode rocks.
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot.
I don't think it's a fair assessment to say archon mode is mechanically easier. It's just different. Even though each player is focusing on less tasks overall, the players can still differentiate their skill by performing each macro/micro task perfectly. There's always something more you can be doing in starcraft. It's not like your keyboard is ever idle.
At the end of the day, archon teams will still lose 50% of the time just like any other mode.
Its easier because the limits of resource availability is still restricted to a 1v1 matchup despite there being 4 players. Unlike a 2v2, where if you have a weak partner you are facing as much as 400 supply worth of enemy troops, archon mode keeps stakes in the 1v1 world where most bad players either don't micro or don't macro. Archon mode fixes the attention limit of new players by giving them specific tasks needed for 1v1 to work adequately.
The upper limits of archon mode is exciting specifically because of the possibility of actual SC2 + Moba qualities it provides. You finally can have someone be able to (as an example) harass with 2-3 clumps of Mutas in 2-6 different locations and not have to worry about defense and macro since someone else is handling that. And the guy playing Macro only needs to say something like "defend 3rd" to automatically recall harass groups from all those locations and have them effectively engage the advancing enemy troops while the ground army is being defensively setup by the macro player. Those upper levels of play will still be unattainable by new players. But to experience SC2 as a baseline--archon mode rocks.
Sure, I'll agree it's easier to carry in Archon Mode. But with 2 players of equal skill I think the jury is still out on whether 2v2 isn't just as easy.
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot.
I don't think it's a fair assessment to say archon mode is mechanically easier. It's just different. Even though each player is focusing on less tasks overall, the players can still differentiate their skill by performing each macro/micro task perfectly. There's always something more you can be doing in starcraft. It's not like your keyboard is ever idle.
At the end of the day, archon teams will still lose 50% of the time just like any other mode.
Its easier because the limits of resource availability is still restricted to a 1v1 matchup despite there being 4 players. Unlike a 2v2, where if you have a weak partner you are facing as much as 400 supply worth of enemy troops, archon mode keeps stakes in the 1v1 world where most bad players either don't micro or don't macro. Archon mode fixes the attention limit of new players by giving them specific tasks needed for 1v1 to work adequately.
The upper limits of archon mode is exciting specifically because of the possibility of actual SC2 + Moba qualities it provides. You finally can have someone be able to (as an example) harass with 2-3 clumps of Mutas in 2-6 different locations and not have to worry about defense and macro since someone else is handling that. And the guy playing Macro only needs to say something like "defend 3rd" to automatically recall harass groups from all those locations and have them effectively engage the advancing enemy troops while the ground army is being defensively setup by the macro player. Those upper levels of play will still be unattainable by new players. But to experience SC2 as a baseline--archon mode rocks.
Sure, I'll agree it's easier to carry in Archon Mode. But with 2 players of equal skill I think the jury is still out on whether 2v2 isn't just as easy.
Archon will always be easier because you only 1 base worth of production being sent against you instead of 2 bases worth of production.
EDIT:
For clarification--the hardest part of 2v2 and Archon Mode will be the same as in any MOBA; communication. Things are easier to do in a team, this is not in question. Things are easier if less things are able to run at you, this is also not in question. But the skill ceiling of any team based game is several magnitudes higher than ANY 1 player game.
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot.
I don't think it's a fair assessment to say archon mode is mechanically easier. It's just different. Even though each player is focusing on less tasks overall, the players can still differentiate their skill by performing each macro/micro task perfectly. There's always something more you can be doing in starcraft. It's not like your keyboard is ever idle.
At the end of the day, archon teams will still lose 50% of the time just like any other mode.
Its easier because the limits of resource availability is still restricted to a 1v1 matchup despite there being 4 players. Unlike a 2v2, where if you have a weak partner you are facing as much as 400 supply worth of enemy troops, archon mode keeps stakes in the 1v1 world where most bad players either don't micro or don't macro. Archon mode fixes the attention limit of new players by giving them specific tasks needed for 1v1 to work adequately.
The upper limits of archon mode is exciting specifically because of the possibility of actual SC2 + Moba qualities it provides. You finally can have someone be able to (as an example) harass with 2-3 clumps of Mutas in 2-6 different locations and not have to worry about defense and macro since someone else is handling that. And the guy playing Macro only needs to say something like "defend 3rd" to automatically recall harass groups from all those locations and have them effectively engage the advancing enemy troops while the ground army is being defensively setup by the macro player. Those upper levels of play will still be unattainable by new players. But to experience SC2 as a baseline--archon mode rocks.
Sure, I'll agree it's easier to carry in Archon Mode. But with 2 players of equal skill I think the jury is still out on whether 2v2 isn't just as easy.
Archon will always be easier because you only 1 base worth of production being sent against you instead of 2 bases worth of production.
EDIT:
For clarification--the hardest part of 2v2 and Archon Mode will be the same as in any MOBA; communication. Things are easier to do in a team, this is not in question. Things are easier if less things are able to run at you, this is also not in question. But the skill ceiling of any team based game is several magnitudes higher than ANY 1 player game.
Things are easier to do in team. < Not necessarily.
Things are easier if less things can run at you. <Not necessarily.
the skill ceiling of any team based game is several magnitudes higher than ANY 1 player game. <Disagree. Different kinds of skill.
Right out of the gateway with no prep work required, 2v2 is easier to get into. You don't need the same level of coordination with your ally as in Archon mode. You just expand, defend, mass up to 150-200 supply and then a-move with your ally's army in the general direction of the enemy. It usually lags too hard to micro even if you want to. The distribution of responsibilities is very clear. You control your army. He controls his. You don't need to chat at all. Just beacon when you move out.
It's two different modes of play which each require their own specific skill sets. I don't think either one is easier.
On July 27 2015 06:43 TRaFFiC wrote: I literally cringe every time someone says that Archon mode will attract new players because it's "easier." There's nothing easy about it. As the article covers, playing it properly requires a lot of skill and communication. People have been playing 2v2 with their buddies since WOL.
I am starting to think it has competitive prospects though.
Archon mode is mechanically easier than 1v1. It requires significantly less muscle memory and practice than 1v1 to approach optimal macro/micro mechanics. That means that newer players can get into archon mode and actually do cool things with less practice. Of course, it's still difficult to be good and there's tons of communication and teamwork involved in playing archon mode but it's still a more accessible game mode than 1v1 and probably 2v2 by a long shot.
I don't think it's a fair assessment to say archon mode is mechanically easier. It's just different. Even though each player is focusing on less tasks overall, the players can still differentiate their skill by performing each macro/micro task perfectly. There's always something more you can be doing in starcraft. It's not like your keyboard is ever idle.
At the end of the day, archon teams will still lose 50% of the time just like any other mode.
Its easier because the limits of resource availability is still restricted to a 1v1 matchup despite there being 4 players. Unlike a 2v2, where if you have a weak partner you are facing as much as 400 supply worth of enemy troops, archon mode keeps stakes in the 1v1 world where most bad players either don't micro or don't macro. Archon mode fixes the attention limit of new players by giving them specific tasks needed for 1v1 to work adequately.
The upper limits of archon mode is exciting specifically because of the possibility of actual SC2 + Moba qualities it provides. You finally can have someone be able to (as an example) harass with 2-3 clumps of Mutas in 2-6 different locations and not have to worry about defense and macro since someone else is handling that. And the guy playing Macro only needs to say something like "defend 3rd" to automatically recall harass groups from all those locations and have them effectively engage the advancing enemy troops while the ground army is being defensively setup by the macro player. Those upper levels of play will still be unattainable by new players. But to experience SC2 as a baseline--archon mode rocks.
Sure, I'll agree it's easier to carry in Archon Mode. But with 2 players of equal skill I think the jury is still out on whether 2v2 isn't just as easy.
Archon will always be easier because you only 1 base worth of production being sent against you instead of 2 bases worth of production.
EDIT:
For clarification--the hardest part of 2v2 and Archon Mode will be the same as in any MOBA; communication. Things are easier to do in a team, this is not in question. Things are easier if less things are able to run at you, this is also not in question. But the skill ceiling of any team based game is several magnitudes higher than ANY 1 player game.
Things are easier to do in team. < Not necessarily.
Things are easier if less things can run at you. <Not necessarily.
the skill ceiling of any team based game is several magnitudes higher than ANY 1 player game. <Disagree. Different kinds of skill.
Right out of the gateway with no prep work required, 2v2 is easier to get into. You don't need the same level of coordination with your ally as in Archon mode. You just expand, defend, mass up to 150-200 supply and then a-move with your ally's army in the general direction of the enemy. It usually lags too hard to micro even if you want to. The distribution of responsibilities is very clear. You control your army. He controls his. You don't need to chat at all. Just beacon when you move out.
It's two different modes of play which each require their own specific skill sets. I don't think either one is easier.
Here's how archon works for new players.
"Have you played SC2 before?"
"No"
"Let me show you, I'll make you stuff and you fight with them"
"I don't know how"
"Don't worry, I'll control some, and you will get the hang of it"
Here is how 2v2 plays with new people.
"What's going on?"
"Just defend their rush"
"But there's twelve lings!"
"You should have walled off"
"What's a wall off?"
Archon is infinitely easier for new players and is infinitely easier to coordinate. That's because 2v2 requires each player to have some idea how to play the game on their own, and then have to coordinate as opposed to delegating responsibilities.
Single player: an individual handles 100% of required actions, and if he is unable to he dies. Team Games: an individual handles X% of required actions, and if he is unable to the team is X% weaker overall.
What is difficult about team games is the communication. A different skill, yes, but much harder than mechanical skills. Any engineer can design a bridge--not any engineer can get the funding, manage the employees, manage the vendors, get the permits, and the other million different things you need to communicate with other people to actually build a bridge. Now it takes a lot more skill to design a bridge than it does to tighten a screw--but it takes a lot more skill to manage hundreds of screw tighteners than it does to fiddle on a cad program. Both skills are important, both skills are necessary to everyday life.
The articles doesn't address the elephant in the room. Starcraft 1 had archon mode but no one played it. So, why do you think it will take off in starcraft 2?
I'm not suggesting that we get rid of it. I think it actually might take off. I believe that starcraft 2 is so much harder than stacraft 1, so that you need 2 people to play effectively. So, archon mode might become popular. But, if it does take off, I think it suggests that starcraft 2 is too difficult as a game.
On July 30 2015 08:29 CloudyVision wrote: The articles doesn't address the elephant in the room. Starcraft 1 had archon mode but no one played it. So, why do you think it will take off in starcraft 2?
I'm not suggesting that we get rid of it. I think it actually might take off. I believe that starcraft 2 is so much harder than stacraft 1, so that you need 2 people to play effectively. So, archon mode might become popular. But, if it does take off, I think it suggests that starcraft 2 is too difficult as a game.
BW had a ladder--and no one played it. Now it has replaced inhouse practice for pro-gamers.
People didn't play ladder in BW because it was too stressful and hard. It was much more fun to play unlimited resource maps which made the game easier. It was more fun to also play 2v2 or 3v3 so that if you lose, you can blame the loss on your bad teammates, not on your lack of skills.
That's partially why I think starcraft 2 isn't as popular. The ranking system creates ladder anxiety so you don't want to play. And, the game is too hard. And, 2v2 and 3v3 games aren't encouraged.
On July 30 2015 08:32 TMagpie wrote:
BW had a ladder--and no one played it. Now it has replaced inhouse practice for pro-gamers.
One of the reason the first members of my clan found eachother was the macro/micro arcade maps, which have been around for a while. The only difference is that there, the macro player controls structures and workers, but transfers control of all army units to the macro players as they are made. Why no mention of these awesome maps, which clarely inspired this game mode?
Me and a clanmate, we both reached platinum tryharding, were the dream team at this, because my strength was always macro while his was micro. Working as a team, however, we regularly beat master players, so qxc, I have some serious doubts you could hold off 2 mid-masters players 2v1, if they know what they are doing.
On July 30 2015 08:29 CloudyVision wrote: The articles doesn't address the elephant in the room. Starcraft 1 had archon mode but no one played it. So, why do you think it will take off in starcraft 2?
I'm not suggesting that we get rid of it. I think it actually might take off. I believe that starcraft 2 is so much harder than stacraft 1, so that you need 2 people to play effectively. So, archon mode might become popular. But, if it does take off, I think it suggests that starcraft 2 is too difficult as a game.
Our understanding of RTS games has drastically shifted since broodwar. Broodwar is, without question, the harder of the two games, but we also didn't really 'get' it back then. Now that the community has a better understanding of the game being so incredibly difficult and that being a barrier of entry, archon mode fills a crucial role to lowering said barrier.
On August 01 2015 04:10 Slydie wrote: One of the reason the first members of my clan found eachother was the macro/micro arcade maps, which have been around for a while. The only difference is that there, the macro player controls structures and workers, but transfers control of all army units to the macro players as they are made. Why no mention of these awesome maps, which clarely inspired this game mode?
Me and a clanmate, we both reached platinum tryharding, were the dream team at this, because my strength was always macro while his was micro. Working as a team, however, we regularly beat master players, so qxc, I have some serious doubts you could hold off 2 mid-masters players 2v1, if they know what they are doing.
I am confident I could beat 2 mid-masters players. If anyone would like to take this challenge you can pm me and set up a time
On August 01 2015 04:10 Slydie wrote: One of the reason the first members of my clan found eachother was the macro/micro arcade maps, which have been around for a while. The only difference is that there, the macro player controls structures and workers, but transfers control of all army units to the macro players as they are made. Why no mention of these awesome maps, which clarely inspired this game mode?
Me and a clanmate, we both reached platinum tryharding, were the dream team at this, because my strength was always macro while his was micro. Working as a team, however, we regularly beat master players, so qxc, I have some serious doubts you could hold off 2 mid-masters players 2v1, if they know what they are doing.
I am confident I could beat 2 mid-masters players. If anyone would like to take this challenge you can pm me and set up a time
mmmmm <3 hope we get to watch (we a bit pervy I admit )
I just read your post now. After a long hiatus from SC2 in favor of other team based games, i think this is the only thing that they could have done, that gets me back into the game - Seriously.
The anti-social part of the ladder was a huge problem and since i enjoyed playing 2v2 or 3v3 with my buddies, this is just a natural step towards a balanced game. 2v2 or 3v3 are not fun - the maps are not balanced towards ... well ... anything. Archon Mode is the only thing that combines a neat gameplay experience and "doing something with friends".
I doubt, i'll ever play 1v1 again, but Archon? This is more likely.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CdXDhYn.gif)
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