EPTAnd there was the best terans in Kespa Cup (Maru, Dream, etc.). so yo argument is true for many foreign events, but not the last 2 cups we were taking about.
[DH Valencia Recap] 5 Years for One Moment - Page 2
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
xongnox
540 Posts
And there was the best terans in Kespa Cup (Maru, Dream, etc.). so yo argument is true for many foreign events, but not the last 2 cups we were taking about. | ||
|
fishjie
United States1519 Posts
The Soo write up was good too Really good stuff | ||
|
OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On July 18 2015 19:27 xongnox wrote: Because you consider FanTaSy; GuMiho; Taeja a weaker line-up than Curious; True; Huyn ? And there was the best terans in Kespa Cup (Maru, Dream, etc.). so yo argument is true for many foreign events, but not the last 2 cups we were taking about. So when a Terran isn't in the finals of the last two cups with good Terrans, there's suddenly a huge problem and we need to cry IMBA IMBA IMBA? >.> And yes, Curious is a Code S Ro4 player, he is way better than FanTaSy and GuMiho (won't even talk about TaeJa lol), whatever the Terran-supremacist propaganda says. | ||
|
SuperHofmann
Italy1741 Posts
On July 18 2015 19:27 xongnox wrote: Because you consider FanTaSy; GuMiho; Taeja a weaker line-up than Curious; True; Huyn ? And there was the best terans in Kespa Cup (Maru, Dream, etc.). so yo argument is true for many foreign events, but not the last 2 cups we were taking about. All the guys that are winning foreigner events are top tier P/Z (looking at GSL/SSL ranking). The only Terrans that travel are about Ro32. Curious made the top4, Rain, Classic won it, Parting is a runner up. GuMiho, Fantasy are nothing compared. | ||
|
Elentos
55585 Posts
On July 18 2015 19:32 OtherWorld wrote: So when a Terran isn't in the finals of the last two cups with good Terrans, there's suddenly a huge problem and we need to cry IMBA IMBA IMBA? >.> Terran has the least premier tournament wins and final appearances of all 3 races this year. And if you insist that neither Terran is weaker than the other races, nor does the map pool have anything to do with it, I call worst bracket luck for Terran. Fitting that the only Terran to reach the GSL semis would be MMA in that case. | ||
|
desRow
Canada2654 Posts
| ||
|
OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On July 18 2015 19:53 Elentos wrote: Terran has the least premier tournament wins and final appearances of all 3 races this year. And if you insist that neither Terran is weaker than the other races, nor does the map pool have anything to do with it, I call worst bracket luck for Terran. Fitting that the only Terran to reach the GSL semis would be MMA in that case. Since when is the number of premier tournaments wins a relevant metric to measure balance? The current figures are 2 wins for T, 5 for Z and 6 for P. Guess what? By changing the outcome of only one game per finals, we could have 3T, 3Z, 7P, or 3T, 4Z, 6P. By changing the outcome of only two games per final (something very small and insignificant on the scale of a tournament !) we could have 4T, 4Z, 5P, something as balanced as it goes. See? The number of premier wins is meaningless. Or if you want to look at it another way, consider this : during the BL-infestor era, the number of Zerg premier wins is not significantly higher than T and P's. If you really want something involving finals, - which is absurd in itself because there are so many factors deciding who's in the finals, from bracket luck to players involved - it would be more indicative to look at the number of mirror finals for each race, as in fact what we observe in the BLfestor era, the GOMTvT era and the Golden Protoss era is an unnaturally high number of mirror finals. This year so far : 1 PvP finals, 1 TvT finals, 2 ZvZ finals. If you exclude foreign tournaments : 1 for each. Magic. Meanwhile, the other usually used indicators of balance (number of TvT/ZvZ/PvP and number of Terrans in the Ro32 of Korean tournaments) are fine. | ||
|
Makro
France16890 Posts
nice storyline we got at dreamhack | ||
|
xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
| ||
|
Topin
Peru10120 Posts
| ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On July 18 2015 20:58 desRow wrote: Amazing words to describe an amazing story. I wasn't aware he's going to retire and go to the army, that's really sad. Does anyone know when? He said he was retiring once he lost in GSL. Said this after Code A. But then he went to the ro4 so no one knows if he still wants to retire. | ||
Jer99
Canada8159 Posts
| ||
|
xongnox
540 Posts
On July 18 2015 21:18 OtherWorld wrote: Since when is the number of premier tournaments wins a relevant metric to measure balance? Well, since a very long time. If you take only in consideration Korean Premier Tournament, the numbers of wins per race are highly correlated to each period of dominance of each race. Foreign events are often affected by imbalanced line-ups. The current figures are 2 wins for T, 5 for Z and 6 for P. Guess what? By changing the outcome of only one game per finals, we could have 3T, 3Z, 7P, or 3T, 4Z, 6P. I don't get your point at all ? By shifting arbitrary the results by 1/5 (or 1/7), which is HUGE (more than accepted imbalance effects in most case), you get 3T wins vs 6P wins instead of 3T wins for 7P wins, so you take the ration from 3/7 = 0.42 to 3/6 = 0.5. Guess what ? You shifted 20%, witch is exactly 1/5. So by shifting the results by 1/5 you..... shift the result by 1/5. That's exactly like saying changing only one map in a BO1 (i.e 100% shift) change the match by 100%, LOL. Magic, as you said. If you want to do maths, we can do so. So, assuming we got a balanced game and a balanced line-up of players per race (ie the distribution of skill among players of race X are the same as race Y, etc. ), we should got 1 chance of 3 for a given race to win a tournament. In this condition, the probability of wining 7 consecutive premier tournament by protoss is 1 on 2187 ( 3^7 ). But you will argue everything is fine and balanced, i guess. Bracket luck, i guess. Btw that was done by 6 distinct protoss, so it's somewhat difficult to argue these 6 players are way ahead others in skill... (it's a receivable argument when only one player wins everything ) Meanwhile, the other usually used indicators of balance (number of TvT/ZvZ/PvP and number of Terrans in the Ro32 of Korean tournaments) are fine. Well if you watch the Ro4 or Ro8 of these tournaments, it's not fine at all. Balance are related to skill level. For example before Ro32, TvP is kinda fine, because protoss early BS and late-game strength are balanced by mine drops and bio-drop play mid-game. Then if you watch the best PvTers, i.e Parting, he wins 87% of his game and 97% of his matchs since January 1st. The new map pool is new, but they retired relatively good terran maps for totally awful terran maps. Guess what, terrans will suck and zerg will do fine, while protosses will stay strong. They done this change while terran was already underperforming for half a year. Very hard to understand, i guess ? | ||
|
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
| ||
|
EvilsPresley
France132 Posts
Maybe just fix "Tours" instead of "Valencia" in the black frame right below the top illustration  | ||
|
DSK
England1110 Posts
| ||
|
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On July 19 2015 08:08 EvilsPresley wrote: Good one! Maybe just fix "Tours" instead of "Valencia" in the black frame right below the top illustration thanks, fixed | ||
|
Sumahi
Guam5609 Posts
| ||
|
ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On July 18 2015 16:11 Samx wrote: Take nothing away from curious. But dreamhack isn't what it used to be with the line-up. Great to see curious finally win something. Dreamhack rarely ever has a very stacked line-up, pretty much only just before Blizzcon and Koreans need the WCS points to make the cut. | ||
|
elwood.sc2
Germany35 Posts
I was here, when Maru played his first GSL, saw Fruitdealer, Nestea and the likes and noticed Curious with his Code A win in 2011 - a tournment where he dropped only one single map (in the preliminaries, funnily against Maru). Of course one could argue, that his Code S semifinals run last season was much harder, but he did this already in 2013 AND it didnt win him a championship! But now... :-) :-) | ||
| ||
