Well ForGG did his best to decrease the amount of players from Millenium in Premier by one and he did it in a spot where it could've been avoided. I understand the argument against limiting players choice to choose for themself, sure. The same way people protest if in F1 a driver is told by the garage director to give room for other driver from the same garage. I think this was an unnecessary call from ForGG since he had 8 players in total from which to choose from and he is himself maybe the strongest player. I don't know if players communicate with their team when they make these decisions. I think this is against Millenium's interests, since this will mean less coverage for the team.
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
You must be an awesome friend.
Dude what has friendship to do with this? Do you think all teammates of a team are friends? If you read some interviews most of the players even dont practice together with their teammates. And you are talking here about friendship. God, first learn about the scene, then complaín about picking teammates in 1vs1 game is wrong. 2nd I wrote they arent close friends, so my question again what has friendship to do here?
This is a dumb move no matter how you look at it, withoput taking "friendship" or "teammates" into consideration. Seriously if I was millenium I would be pissed, what the point of having an expensive korean on your team if he isn't even confident against the likes of heromarine, nerchio and uthermal. This kind of move just makes me think, this guys is scared out of his pants of standard EU players, sounds to me like ForGG is aiming desperately to get into top 16 this wcs!
I mean wtf, why would anyone wants to keep a guy on their team that backstabs their members because they are afraid of 50% of the players in challenger, just get rid of the loser already.
The only other possibility rather than fear and a weak mindset is that the guy is just genuinaly an asshole that did it to fuck Dayshi over.
No matter how you cut it ForGG doesn't look good doing this, not from a team or sponsor perspective and definitely not from a fan perspective.
Sry, dat doesnt make any sense too. ForGG is far the best player in Millenium. He did more than enough good job to represent Millenium. He won Dreamhack Winter last year with high calibers of Korean. And now he chooses his teammate to reach ro32, he is bad for Millenium? Are you serious? ForGG is the best thing to happen for Millenium after Stephano. Even if you are in team, in 1vs1 tournament, you think how to win first as individual. If i became progamer to earn money, then why would I care about killing my teammate to win a tournament? Everyone is there to win. And to be clearify I am not ForGG fan and I was never. But how people are shit talking to him is the dumbest thing I ve ever seen.
Hello, have you seen the group selections for ssl or gsl?
Its a different climate in korea, there teams are teams. These kinds of things is what works against that kind of climate coming to eu and am. The way you make it sounds teams doesn't matter in sc2 for eu and am, I disagree. Teams are teams, if you want to play for yourself only why get a team. Go freelance, if you join a team you join a team after you have join going all "I'm just playing for myself" is bullshit. If thats how you think then don't join a team lol.
You have a choice, join a team or not, if you do choose to join a team that contains advantages and disadvantages.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
You must be an awesome friend.
Dude what has friendship to do with this? Do you think all teammates of a team are friends? If you read some interviews most of the players even dont practice together with their teammates. And you are talking here about friendship. God, first learn about the scene, then complaín about picking teammates in 1vs1 game is wrong. 2nd I wrote they arent close friends, so my question again what has friendship to do here?
This is a dumb move no matter how you look at it, withoput taking "friendship" or "teammates" into consideration. Seriously if I was millenium I would be pissed, what the point of having an expensive korean on your team if he isn't even confident against the likes of heromarine, nerchio and uthermal. This kind of move just makes me think, this guys is scared out of his pants of standard EU players, sounds to me like ForGG is aiming desperately to get into top 16 this wcs!
I mean wtf, why would anyone wants to keep a guy on their team that backstabs their members because they are afraid of 50% of the players in challenger, just get rid of the loser already.
The only other possibility rather than fear and a weak mindset is that the guy is just genuinaly an asshole that did it to fuck Dayshi over.
No matter how you cut it ForGG doesn't look good doing this, not from a team or sponsor perspective and definitely not from a fan perspective.
Sry, dat doesnt make any sense too. ForGG is far the best player in Millenium. He did more than enough good job to represent Millenium. He won Dreamhack Winter last year with high calibers of Korean. And now he chooses his teammate to reach ro32, he is bad for Millenium? Are you serious? ForGG is the best thing to happen for Millenium after Stephano. Even if you are in team, in 1vs1 tournament, you think how to win first as individual. If i became progamer to earn money, then why would I care about killing my teammate to win a tournament? Everyone is there to win. And to be clearify I am not ForGG fan and I was never. But how people are shit talking to him is the dumbest thing I ve ever seen.
Hello, have you seen the group selections for ssl or gsl?
Its a different climate in korea, there teams are teams. These kinds of things is what works against that kind of climate coming to eu and am. The way you make it sounds teams doesn't matter in sc2 for eu and am, I disagree. Teams are teams, if you want to play for yourself only why get a team. Go freelance, if you join a team you join a team after you have join going all "I'm just playing for myself" is bullshit. If thats how you think then don't join a team lol.
You have a choice, join a team or not, if you do choose to join a team that contains advantages and disadvantages.
Exactly. Not only that, but since most teams of the size of Millenium pay their players, it is only normal not to fuck over your team.
I'm a fan of ForGG, not millenium, and so have no problem with him picking any opponent he wants. Most people i've seen really mad about this decision seem to be french or supporters of millenium. Now, the argument of 1v1 and a team game doesn't really apply here since sc is a 1v1 game but without teams, there isn't any other way for training and exposure of players. a bit off topic but i was wondering how the eu sc scene would look like if no koreans switched to eu and played on eu ladder. this is for all those wanting millenium to sack forgg. how much did the milenium players benefit from having forgg as a teammate up till now. personally it just seems to me that france got outstanding success in recent times, well deserved i should add, and this has gotten to them a little,
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
ForGG does what a champion in 1v1 sports has to do: Having no respect:
What made Hamilton or Vettel champions and Rosberg or Webber not? They drive in teams and get pay by the teams, that also build their cars. But still they fight for their own for a championchip where only one man can win it in the end of the year. And Hamilton or Vettel did not give a shit for their teammates, while Rosberg and Webber did: Hamilton fights hard against Rosberg, so hard, that if Rosberg does not want to risk a crash, he has to stay back. And Hamilton knows that and uses that, Hamilton risks the crash and thus harming his own team (which pays him 25 M $ per year). It is the difference between champions and only "good ones". Using every inch you get even when it harms your team. When ForGG sits in the booth and wins or loses, his team is not there, he is on his own and wins or loses on his own. ForGG has what a champion needs to have inside: No respect and the look for personal advantage. All who cry out know, in the scene as pro players or as specators, show, that they dont understand that. Espacially people like Desrow, who never win anything.
On July 12 2015 21:23 Ronok1307 wrote: I'm a fan of ForGG, not millenium, and so have no problem with him picking any opponent he wants. Most people i've seen really mad about this decision seem to be french or supporters of millenium. Now, the argument of 1v1 and a team game doesn't really apply here since sc is a 1v1 game but without teams, there isn't any other way for training and exposure of players. a bit off topic but i was wondering how the eu sc scene would look like if no koreans switched to eu and played on eu ladder. this is for all those wanting millenium to sack forgg. how much did the milenium players benefit from having forgg as a teammate up till now. personally it just seems to me that france got outstanding success in recent times, well deserved i should add, and this has gotten to them a little,
A team is a team, if you won't play as a teammember don't join a team. Its pretty obvious actually. I'm not a dayshi fan, I'm not a forgg fan, I'm not a millenium fan. If you want to pull the "you french people are biased" card then I'll pull the "you forgg fans are biased" card. You are the biased one here, I would say the same thing no matter which coward ran away from challenger to screw over a teammate. Forgg is obviously a has been(if he ever even was something), running from challenger to pick a teammate. He is obviously too weak to make any waves in wcs anyway.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 21:15 MiniFotToss wrote:
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
In Korea, players do everything to avoid teamkills. This is not Korean mentality ForGG is displaying.
On July 12 2015 21:27 Clonester wrote: ForGG does what a champion in 1v1 sports has to do: Having no respect:
What made Hamilton or Vettel champions and Rosberg or Webber not? They drive in teams and get pay by the teams, that also build their cars. But still they fight for their own for a championchip where only one man can win it in the end of the year. And Hamilton or Vettel did not give a shit for their teammates, while Rosberg and Webber did: Hamilton fights hard against Rosberg, so hard, that if Rosberg does not want to risk a crash, he has to stay back. And Hamilton knows that and uses that, Hamilton risks the crash and thus harming his own team (which pays him 25 M $ per year). It is the difference between champions and only "good ones". Using every inch you get even when it harms your team. When ForGG sits in the booth and wins or loses, his team is not there, he is on his own and wins or loses on his own. ForGG has what a champion needs to have inside: No respect and the look for personal advantage. All who cry out know, in the scene as pro players or as specators, show, that they dont understand that. Espacially people like Desrow, who never win anything.
You can be respectful and be the greatest player of tennis of all time: Roger Federer
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
You must be an awesome friend.
Dude what has friendship to do with this? Do you think all teammates of a team are friends? If you read some interviews most of the players even dont practice together with their teammates. And you are talking here about friendship. God, first learn about the scene, then complaín about picking teammates in 1vs1 game is wrong. 2nd I wrote they arent close friends, so my question again what has friendship to do here?
This is a dumb move no matter how you look at it, withoput taking "friendship" or "teammates" into consideration. Seriously if I was millenium I would be pissed, what the point of having an expensive korean on your team if he isn't even confident against the likes of heromarine, nerchio and uthermal. This kind of move just makes me think, this guys is scared out of his pants of standard EU players, sounds to me like ForGG is aiming desperately to get into top 16 this wcs!
I mean wtf, why would anyone wants to keep a guy on their team that backstabs their members because they are afraid of 50% of the players in challenger, just get rid of the loser already.
The only other possibility rather than fear and a weak mindset is that the guy is just genuinaly an asshole that did it to fuck Dayshi over.
No matter how you cut it ForGG doesn't look good doing this, not from a team or sponsor perspective and definitely not from a fan perspective.
Sry, dat doesnt make any sense too. ForGG is far the best player in Millenium. He did more than enough good job to represent Millenium. He won Dreamhack Winter last year with high calibers of Korean. And now he chooses his teammate to reach ro32, he is bad for Millenium? Are you serious? ForGG is the best thing to happen for Millenium after Stephano. Even if you are in team, in 1vs1 tournament, you think how to win first as individual. If i became progamer to earn money, then why would I care about killing my teammate to win a tournament? Everyone is there to win. And to be clearify I am not ForGG fan and I was never. But how people are shit talking to him is the dumbest thing I ve ever seen.
Hello, have you seen the group selections for ssl or gsl?
Its a different climate in korea, there teams are teams. These kinds of things is what works against that kind of climate coming to eu and am. The way you make it sounds teams doesn't matter in sc2 for eu and am, I disagree. Teams are teams, if you want to play for yourself only why get a team. Go freelance, if you join a team you join a team after you have join going all "I'm just playing for myself" is bullshit. If thats how you think then don't join a team lol.
You have a choice, join a team or not, if you do choose to join a team that contains advantages and disadvantages.
Dude are you really comparing Korea with EU or NA? In Korea they live together, they eat together, they spend their free time together, they practice together. They have almost literally Family atmosphere there. But here in EU do Snute, Bunny, TLO, Ret and etc. live together? Do they feel so close? I dont think so. And ForGG doesnt live in Millenium teamhouse. And you join a team to get support. Do you think a unknown player, who is not rich and student can afford to travel to all tournaments by himself? Do you think he cares about his teammates when its his desire to earn money? And if a team has a player that can go very far in any tournament and even win it, why should they care if he does a teamkill? Only 1 can at the end win. And to compare Korea with EU and NA is so wrong. They have Proleague where not the individuals but teams are in focus. In Eu there ist something like that. Clanwars etc. arent same.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 21:15 MiniFotToss wrote:
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
In Korea, players do everything to avoid teamkills. This is not Korean mentality ForGG is displaying.
On July 12 2015 21:23 Ronok1307 wrote: I'm a fan of ForGG, not millenium, and so have no problem with him picking any opponent he wants. Most people i've seen really mad about this decision seem to be french or supporters of millenium. Now, the argument of 1v1 and a team game doesn't really apply here since sc is a 1v1 game but without teams, there isn't any other way for training and exposure of players. a bit off topic but i was wondering how the eu sc scene would look like if no koreans switched to eu and played on eu ladder. this is for all those wanting millenium to sack forgg. how much did the milenium players benefit from having forgg as a teammate up till now. personally it just seems to me that france got outstanding success in recent times, well deserved i should add, and this has gotten to them a little,
A team is a team, if you won't play as a teammember don't join a team. Its pretty obvious actually. I'm not a dayshi fan, I'm not a forgg fan, I'm not a millenium fan. If you want to pull the "you french people are biased" card then I'll pull the "you forgg fans are biased" card. You are the biased one here, I would say the same thing no matter which coward ran away from challenger to screw over a teammate. Forgg is obviously a has been(if he ever even was something), running from challenger to pick a teammate. He is obviously too weak to make any waves in wcs anyway.
And here you are pulling the "team" card on me. As i said, what is a team really in a 1v1 game as starcraft? Different people have different opinions on what a team represents here, you and i clearly have view it differently.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 21:15 MiniFotToss wrote:
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
Sorry if my answer seemed harsh. Yeah I understand that for ForGG it's the best move, but if you factor in ethics, it's not acceptable to pick your teammate. Look at Liquid players in Challenger last season, for example.
On July 12 2015 21:27 Clonester wrote: ForGG does what a champion in 1v1 sports has to do: Having no respect:
What made Hamilton or Vettel champions and Rosberg or Webber not? They drive in teams and get pay by the teams, that also build their cars. But still they fight for their own for a championchip where only one man can win it in the end of the year. And Hamilton or Vettel did not give a shit for their teammates, while Rosberg and Webber did: Hamilton fights hard against Rosberg, so hard, that if Rosberg does not want to risk a crash, he has to stay back. And Hamilton knows that and uses that, Hamilton risks the crash and thus harming his own team (which pays him 25 M $ per year). It is the difference between champions and only "good ones". Using every inch you get even when it harms your team. When ForGG sits in the booth and wins or loses, his team is not there, he is on his own and wins or loses on his own. ForGG has what a champion needs to have inside: No respect and the look for personal advantage. All who cry out know, in the scene as pro players or as specators, show, that they dont understand that. Espacially people like Desrow, who never win anything.
I'm not sure if you can compare racing with SC2. F1 drivers are under the constant pressure of being fired by their teams if their results are too bad, and thus it is a necessity (the first rule of racing, even) to do better than your teammate. That's not the case in SC2. At least not as far as ForGG and Mill are concerned.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 21:15 MiniFotToss wrote:
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
Sorry if my answer seemed harsh. Yeah I understand that for ForGG it's the best move, but if you factor in ethics, it's not acceptable to pick your teammate. Look at Liquid players in Challenger last season, for example.
At least we're sort of on the same page, and yeah what ForGG did is kinda unethical but still.....
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
Dude you are saying ForGG is a failure? He was the only player last year to represent Millenium in highest levesl, who else were there? Noone. And you are comparing Korean team with Milenium? They are all Korean players who live together and spend so much time together. Now think Lilbow, Marinelord and Dayshi are french, they are probably friends. But ForGG live alone and isnt close to them. So does he think if he chooses Dayshi about teamkill or his best chance to advance further? Well ForGG was till Lilbow and Marinelord started to show some results, the best player in Millenium, and you cant denie that. I am pretty sure, because of ForGG Millenium earned some money too. Disrespectful to Dayshi? Maybe yes, I feel sorry for Dayshi, Disrespectful to Millenium? Nope, he represented Millenium good enough.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
Dude you are saying ForGG is a failure? He was the only player last year to represent Millenium in highest levesl, who else were there? Noone. And you are comparing Korean team with Milenium? They are all Korean players who live together and spend so much time together. Now think Lilbow, Marinelord and Dayshi are french, they are probably friends. But ForGG live alone and isnt close to them. So does he think if he chooses Dayshi about teamkill or his best chance to advance further? Well ForGG was till Lilbow and Marinelord started to show some results, the best player in Millenium, and you cant denie that. I am pretty sure, because of ForGG Millenium earned some money too. Disrespectful to Dayshi? Maybe yes, I feel sorry for Dayshi, Disrespectful to Millenium? Nope, he represented Millenium good enough.
So doing well for your team in the past allows you to do shit moves towards your team in the present? Man that's a nice way to think things, I guess by that reasoning you're OK with stealing money from your employer or selling industrial secrets to rivals because you made him earn money in the past.
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