He should lose because he doesnt practice anymore. But really...
Kane > HuK
We all saw HuK's skill when he played with Scarlett in the archon mode. Its so bad... thank god he plays protoss, he should praise david kim for the imbalance.
He should lose because he doesnt practice anymore. But really...
Kane > HuK
We all saw HuK's skill when he played with Scarlett in the archon mode. Its so bad... thank god he plays protoss, he should praise david kim for the imbalance.
Huk did decent at HSC, which I think is what lead to him being picked last.
Lucky for him, he's not playing Zerg here, so that archon mode match is pretty irrelevant.
On July 12 2015 11:28 Ja.Y. wrote: Rip first 3 in NA going against Koreans
I said this in the other thread but I'll say it again here, I just don't see a world where Polt/JD would lose their spots in AM to anyone not in premier league outside of MAYBE HuK or Qxc (or Puck if he had qualified). And with Polt/JD having pick of the lot they would never pick players that could give them trouble. Its similar to Kelazhur and Major having locks for the Copa America spots. they're just on a higher level than the rest of their competition
Cool, there is a good chance that we will have 3 finns in next premier. I would still consider Welmu as a favorite against Elazer but Elfi vs Uthermal and Serral vs Snute are harder to predict. Let's make a record number of finns in premier guys :D
Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
I can't imagine what he would have done to get it back so he can't have lost much this time.
I hope heromarine makes it through this time. Even though he had some bad matches recently, I believe he has the most potential of the current German players. He will just have to find the time to practice really hard.
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
I can't imagine what he would have done to get it back so he can't have lost much this time.
On July 12 2015 09:51 Dragoonstorm7 wrote: ...ForGG picked Dayshi???
Not that surprising. Didn't Jaedong pick supply last season?
No Suppy picked Jaedong, but not really. They didn't pick last season they submitted lists. Suppy was second to last and had JD and Masa at the bottom of his list, he didn't really expect to get Jaedong and couldn't control it.
ForGG wasn't at the bottom and had way more choices, so there definitely is a difference.
I still think it's really stupid if someone gets upset with ForGG here, the only one who has the right to be upset is Dayshi, but he is a pro and understands it I think. ForGG is not that good/confident that he can just pick anybody and win in Premiere.
Edit: I guess another difference is that Suppy basically suicided (not by choice).
I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Although Dayshi could also try practicing with a bunch of great TvT players to actually win for once. ForGG has been eliminated from both WCS seasons this year by TvT.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
You must be an awesome friend.
Dude what has friendship to do with this? Do you think all teammates of a team are friends? If you read some interviews lot of the players(EU teams) even dont practice together with their teammates. And you are talking here about friendship. God, first learn about the scene, then complaín about picking teammates in 1vs1 game is wrong. 2nd I wrote they arent close friends, so my question again what has friendship to do here?
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
You must be an awesome friend.
Dude what has friendship to do with this? Do you think all teammates of a team are friends? If you read some interviews most of the players even dont practice together with their teammates. And you are talking here about friendship. God, first learn about the scene, then complaín about picking teammates in 1vs1 game is wrong. 2nd I wrote they arent close friends, so my question again what has friendship to do here?
This is a dumb move no matter how you look at it, withoput taking "friendship" or "teammates" into consideration. Seriously if I was millenium I would be pissed, what the point of having an expensive korean on your team if he isn't even confident against the likes of heromarine, nerchio and uthermal. This kind of move just makes me think, this guys is scared out of his pants of standard EU players, sounds to me like ForGG is aiming desperately to get into top 16 this wcs!
I mean wtf, why would anyone wants to keep a guy on their team that backstabs their members because they are afraid of 50% of the players in challenger, just get rid of the loser already.
The only other possibility rather than fear and a weak mindset is that the guy is just genuinaly an asshole that did it to fuck Dayshi over.
No matter how you cut it ForGG doesn't look good doing this, not from a team or sponsor perspective and definitely not from a fan perspective.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
You must be an awesome friend.
Dude what has friendship to do with this? Do you think all teammates of a team are friends? If you read some interviews most of the players even dont practice together with their teammates. And you are talking here about friendship. God, first learn about the scene, then complaín about picking teammates in 1vs1 game is wrong. 2nd I wrote they arent close friends, so my question again what has friendship to do here?
This is a dumb move no matter how you look at it, withoput taking "friendship" or "teammates" into consideration. Seriously if I was millenium I would be pissed, what the point of having an expensive korean on your team if he isn't even confident against the likes of heromarine, nerchio and uthermal. This kind of move just makes me think, this guys is scared out of his pants of standard EU players, sounds to me like ForGG is aiming desperately to get into top 16 this wcs!
I mean wtf, why would anyone wants to keep a guy on their team that backstabs their members because they are afraid of 50% of the players in challenger, just get rid of the loser already.
The only other possibility rather than fear and a weak mindset is that the guy is just genuinaly an asshole that did it to fuck Dayshi over.
No matter how you cut it ForGG doesn't look good doing this, not from a team or sponsor perspective and definitely not from a fan perspective.
Sry, dat doesnt make any sense too. ForGG is far the best player in Millenium. He did more than enough good job to represent Millenium. He won Dreamhack Winter last year with high calibers of Korean. And now he chooses his teammate to reach ro32, he is bad for Millenium? Are you serious? ForGG is the best thing to happen for Millenium after Stephano. Even if you are in team, in 1vs1 tournament, you think how to win first as individual. If i became progamer to earn money, then why would I care about killing my teammate to win a tournament? Everyone is there to win. And to be clearify I am not ForGG fan and I was never. But how people are shit talking to him is the dumbest thing I ve ever seen.
Well ForGG did his best to decrease the amount of players from Millenium in Premier by one and he did it in a spot where it could've been avoided. I understand the argument against limiting players choice to choose for themself, sure. The same way people protest if in F1 a driver is told by the garage director to give room for other driver from the same garage. I think this was an unnecessary call from ForGG since he had 8 players in total from which to choose from and he is himself maybe the strongest player. I don't know if players communicate with their team when they make these decisions. I think this is against Millenium's interests, since this will mean less coverage for the team.
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
You must be an awesome friend.
Dude what has friendship to do with this? Do you think all teammates of a team are friends? If you read some interviews most of the players even dont practice together with their teammates. And you are talking here about friendship. God, first learn about the scene, then complaín about picking teammates in 1vs1 game is wrong. 2nd I wrote they arent close friends, so my question again what has friendship to do here?
This is a dumb move no matter how you look at it, withoput taking "friendship" or "teammates" into consideration. Seriously if I was millenium I would be pissed, what the point of having an expensive korean on your team if he isn't even confident against the likes of heromarine, nerchio and uthermal. This kind of move just makes me think, this guys is scared out of his pants of standard EU players, sounds to me like ForGG is aiming desperately to get into top 16 this wcs!
I mean wtf, why would anyone wants to keep a guy on their team that backstabs their members because they are afraid of 50% of the players in challenger, just get rid of the loser already.
The only other possibility rather than fear and a weak mindset is that the guy is just genuinaly an asshole that did it to fuck Dayshi over.
No matter how you cut it ForGG doesn't look good doing this, not from a team or sponsor perspective and definitely not from a fan perspective.
Sry, dat doesnt make any sense too. ForGG is far the best player in Millenium. He did more than enough good job to represent Millenium. He won Dreamhack Winter last year with high calibers of Korean. And now he chooses his teammate to reach ro32, he is bad for Millenium? Are you serious? ForGG is the best thing to happen for Millenium after Stephano. Even if you are in team, in 1vs1 tournament, you think how to win first as individual. If i became progamer to earn money, then why would I care about killing my teammate to win a tournament? Everyone is there to win. And to be clearify I am not ForGG fan and I was never. But how people are shit talking to him is the dumbest thing I ve ever seen.
Hello, have you seen the group selections for ssl or gsl?
Its a different climate in korea, there teams are teams. These kinds of things is what works against that kind of climate coming to eu and am. The way you make it sounds teams doesn't matter in sc2 for eu and am, I disagree. Teams are teams, if you want to play for yourself only why get a team. Go freelance, if you join a team you join a team after you have join going all "I'm just playing for myself" is bullshit. If thats how you think then don't join a team lol.
You have a choice, join a team or not, if you do choose to join a team that contains advantages and disadvantages.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
You must be an awesome friend.
Dude what has friendship to do with this? Do you think all teammates of a team are friends? If you read some interviews most of the players even dont practice together with their teammates. And you are talking here about friendship. God, first learn about the scene, then complaín about picking teammates in 1vs1 game is wrong. 2nd I wrote they arent close friends, so my question again what has friendship to do here?
This is a dumb move no matter how you look at it, withoput taking "friendship" or "teammates" into consideration. Seriously if I was millenium I would be pissed, what the point of having an expensive korean on your team if he isn't even confident against the likes of heromarine, nerchio and uthermal. This kind of move just makes me think, this guys is scared out of his pants of standard EU players, sounds to me like ForGG is aiming desperately to get into top 16 this wcs!
I mean wtf, why would anyone wants to keep a guy on their team that backstabs their members because they are afraid of 50% of the players in challenger, just get rid of the loser already.
The only other possibility rather than fear and a weak mindset is that the guy is just genuinaly an asshole that did it to fuck Dayshi over.
No matter how you cut it ForGG doesn't look good doing this, not from a team or sponsor perspective and definitely not from a fan perspective.
Sry, dat doesnt make any sense too. ForGG is far the best player in Millenium. He did more than enough good job to represent Millenium. He won Dreamhack Winter last year with high calibers of Korean. And now he chooses his teammate to reach ro32, he is bad for Millenium? Are you serious? ForGG is the best thing to happen for Millenium after Stephano. Even if you are in team, in 1vs1 tournament, you think how to win first as individual. If i became progamer to earn money, then why would I care about killing my teammate to win a tournament? Everyone is there to win. And to be clearify I am not ForGG fan and I was never. But how people are shit talking to him is the dumbest thing I ve ever seen.
Hello, have you seen the group selections for ssl or gsl?
Its a different climate in korea, there teams are teams. These kinds of things is what works against that kind of climate coming to eu and am. The way you make it sounds teams doesn't matter in sc2 for eu and am, I disagree. Teams are teams, if you want to play for yourself only why get a team. Go freelance, if you join a team you join a team after you have join going all "I'm just playing for myself" is bullshit. If thats how you think then don't join a team lol.
You have a choice, join a team or not, if you do choose to join a team that contains advantages and disadvantages.
Exactly. Not only that, but since most teams of the size of Millenium pay their players, it is only normal not to fuck over your team.
I'm a fan of ForGG, not millenium, and so have no problem with him picking any opponent he wants. Most people i've seen really mad about this decision seem to be french or supporters of millenium. Now, the argument of 1v1 and a team game doesn't really apply here since sc is a 1v1 game but without teams, there isn't any other way for training and exposure of players. a bit off topic but i was wondering how the eu sc scene would look like if no koreans switched to eu and played on eu ladder. this is for all those wanting millenium to sack forgg. how much did the milenium players benefit from having forgg as a teammate up till now. personally it just seems to me that france got outstanding success in recent times, well deserved i should add, and this has gotten to them a little,
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
ForGG does what a champion in 1v1 sports has to do: Having no respect:
What made Hamilton or Vettel champions and Rosberg or Webber not? They drive in teams and get pay by the teams, that also build their cars. But still they fight for their own for a championchip where only one man can win it in the end of the year. And Hamilton or Vettel did not give a shit for their teammates, while Rosberg and Webber did: Hamilton fights hard against Rosberg, so hard, that if Rosberg does not want to risk a crash, he has to stay back. And Hamilton knows that and uses that, Hamilton risks the crash and thus harming his own team (which pays him 25 M $ per year). It is the difference between champions and only "good ones". Using every inch you get even when it harms your team. When ForGG sits in the booth and wins or loses, his team is not there, he is on his own and wins or loses on his own. ForGG has what a champion needs to have inside: No respect and the look for personal advantage. All who cry out know, in the scene as pro players or as specators, show, that they dont understand that. Espacially people like Desrow, who never win anything.
On July 12 2015 21:23 Ronok1307 wrote: I'm a fan of ForGG, not millenium, and so have no problem with him picking any opponent he wants. Most people i've seen really mad about this decision seem to be french or supporters of millenium. Now, the argument of 1v1 and a team game doesn't really apply here since sc is a 1v1 game but without teams, there isn't any other way for training and exposure of players. a bit off topic but i was wondering how the eu sc scene would look like if no koreans switched to eu and played on eu ladder. this is for all those wanting millenium to sack forgg. how much did the milenium players benefit from having forgg as a teammate up till now. personally it just seems to me that france got outstanding success in recent times, well deserved i should add, and this has gotten to them a little,
A team is a team, if you won't play as a teammember don't join a team. Its pretty obvious actually. I'm not a dayshi fan, I'm not a forgg fan, I'm not a millenium fan. If you want to pull the "you french people are biased" card then I'll pull the "you forgg fans are biased" card. You are the biased one here, I would say the same thing no matter which coward ran away from challenger to screw over a teammate. Forgg is obviously a has been(if he ever even was something), running from challenger to pick a teammate. He is obviously too weak to make any waves in wcs anyway.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 21:15 MiniFotToss wrote:
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
In Korea, players do everything to avoid teamkills. This is not Korean mentality ForGG is displaying.
On July 12 2015 21:27 Clonester wrote: ForGG does what a champion in 1v1 sports has to do: Having no respect:
What made Hamilton or Vettel champions and Rosberg or Webber not? They drive in teams and get pay by the teams, that also build their cars. But still they fight for their own for a championchip where only one man can win it in the end of the year. And Hamilton or Vettel did not give a shit for their teammates, while Rosberg and Webber did: Hamilton fights hard against Rosberg, so hard, that if Rosberg does not want to risk a crash, he has to stay back. And Hamilton knows that and uses that, Hamilton risks the crash and thus harming his own team (which pays him 25 M $ per year). It is the difference between champions and only "good ones". Using every inch you get even when it harms your team. When ForGG sits in the booth and wins or loses, his team is not there, he is on his own and wins or loses on his own. ForGG has what a champion needs to have inside: No respect and the look for personal advantage. All who cry out know, in the scene as pro players or as specators, show, that they dont understand that. Espacially people like Desrow, who never win anything.
You can be respectful and be the greatest player of tennis of all time: Roger Federer
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still dont get teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
You must be an awesome friend.
Dude what has friendship to do with this? Do you think all teammates of a team are friends? If you read some interviews most of the players even dont practice together with their teammates. And you are talking here about friendship. God, first learn about the scene, then complaín about picking teammates in 1vs1 game is wrong. 2nd I wrote they arent close friends, so my question again what has friendship to do here?
This is a dumb move no matter how you look at it, withoput taking "friendship" or "teammates" into consideration. Seriously if I was millenium I would be pissed, what the point of having an expensive korean on your team if he isn't even confident against the likes of heromarine, nerchio and uthermal. This kind of move just makes me think, this guys is scared out of his pants of standard EU players, sounds to me like ForGG is aiming desperately to get into top 16 this wcs!
I mean wtf, why would anyone wants to keep a guy on their team that backstabs their members because they are afraid of 50% of the players in challenger, just get rid of the loser already.
The only other possibility rather than fear and a weak mindset is that the guy is just genuinaly an asshole that did it to fuck Dayshi over.
No matter how you cut it ForGG doesn't look good doing this, not from a team or sponsor perspective and definitely not from a fan perspective.
Sry, dat doesnt make any sense too. ForGG is far the best player in Millenium. He did more than enough good job to represent Millenium. He won Dreamhack Winter last year with high calibers of Korean. And now he chooses his teammate to reach ro32, he is bad for Millenium? Are you serious? ForGG is the best thing to happen for Millenium after Stephano. Even if you are in team, in 1vs1 tournament, you think how to win first as individual. If i became progamer to earn money, then why would I care about killing my teammate to win a tournament? Everyone is there to win. And to be clearify I am not ForGG fan and I was never. But how people are shit talking to him is the dumbest thing I ve ever seen.
Hello, have you seen the group selections for ssl or gsl?
Its a different climate in korea, there teams are teams. These kinds of things is what works against that kind of climate coming to eu and am. The way you make it sounds teams doesn't matter in sc2 for eu and am, I disagree. Teams are teams, if you want to play for yourself only why get a team. Go freelance, if you join a team you join a team after you have join going all "I'm just playing for myself" is bullshit. If thats how you think then don't join a team lol.
You have a choice, join a team or not, if you do choose to join a team that contains advantages and disadvantages.
Dude are you really comparing Korea with EU or NA? In Korea they live together, they eat together, they spend their free time together, they practice together. They have almost literally Family atmosphere there. But here in EU do Snute, Bunny, TLO, Ret and etc. live together? Do they feel so close? I dont think so. And ForGG doesnt live in Millenium teamhouse. And you join a team to get support. Do you think a unknown player, who is not rich and student can afford to travel to all tournaments by himself? Do you think he cares about his teammates when its his desire to earn money? And if a team has a player that can go very far in any tournament and even win it, why should they care if he does a teamkill? Only 1 can at the end win. And to compare Korea with EU and NA is so wrong. They have Proleague where not the individuals but teams are in focus. In Eu there ist something like that. Clanwars etc. arent same.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 21:15 MiniFotToss wrote:
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
In Korea, players do everything to avoid teamkills. This is not Korean mentality ForGG is displaying.
On July 12 2015 21:23 Ronok1307 wrote: I'm a fan of ForGG, not millenium, and so have no problem with him picking any opponent he wants. Most people i've seen really mad about this decision seem to be french or supporters of millenium. Now, the argument of 1v1 and a team game doesn't really apply here since sc is a 1v1 game but without teams, there isn't any other way for training and exposure of players. a bit off topic but i was wondering how the eu sc scene would look like if no koreans switched to eu and played on eu ladder. this is for all those wanting millenium to sack forgg. how much did the milenium players benefit from having forgg as a teammate up till now. personally it just seems to me that france got outstanding success in recent times, well deserved i should add, and this has gotten to them a little,
A team is a team, if you won't play as a teammember don't join a team. Its pretty obvious actually. I'm not a dayshi fan, I'm not a forgg fan, I'm not a millenium fan. If you want to pull the "you french people are biased" card then I'll pull the "you forgg fans are biased" card. You are the biased one here, I would say the same thing no matter which coward ran away from challenger to screw over a teammate. Forgg is obviously a has been(if he ever even was something), running from challenger to pick a teammate. He is obviously too weak to make any waves in wcs anyway.
And here you are pulling the "team" card on me. As i said, what is a team really in a 1v1 game as starcraft? Different people have different opinions on what a team represents here, you and i clearly have view it differently.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 21:15 MiniFotToss wrote:
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
Sorry if my answer seemed harsh. Yeah I understand that for ForGG it's the best move, but if you factor in ethics, it's not acceptable to pick your teammate. Look at Liquid players in Challenger last season, for example.
On July 12 2015 21:27 Clonester wrote: ForGG does what a champion in 1v1 sports has to do: Having no respect:
What made Hamilton or Vettel champions and Rosberg or Webber not? They drive in teams and get pay by the teams, that also build their cars. But still they fight for their own for a championchip where only one man can win it in the end of the year. And Hamilton or Vettel did not give a shit for their teammates, while Rosberg and Webber did: Hamilton fights hard against Rosberg, so hard, that if Rosberg does not want to risk a crash, he has to stay back. And Hamilton knows that and uses that, Hamilton risks the crash and thus harming his own team (which pays him 25 M $ per year). It is the difference between champions and only "good ones". Using every inch you get even when it harms your team. When ForGG sits in the booth and wins or loses, his team is not there, he is on his own and wins or loses on his own. ForGG has what a champion needs to have inside: No respect and the look for personal advantage. All who cry out know, in the scene as pro players or as specators, show, that they dont understand that. Espacially people like Desrow, who never win anything.
I'm not sure if you can compare racing with SC2. F1 drivers are under the constant pressure of being fired by their teams if their results are too bad, and thus it is a necessity (the first rule of racing, even) to do better than your teammate. That's not the case in SC2. At least not as far as ForGG and Mill are concerned.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
On July 12 2015 21:15 MiniFotToss wrote:
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, thanks. Doesn't change what I think about this and him though.
Dude, let me be clear, I am NOT insulting you or anything. So I hope you don't misunderstand. It's just ForGG is doing this as a job and in Korea they value competition more than anything and maybe that sort of mindset got to ForGG. Sure, it's a bitchy move, but hey, if he can win it why wouldn't he go for it, as I said, every man for himself. Sure, it doesn't justify his choice, but it's not like he needs anyone else to comment about his choices, our comments are irrelevant
Sorry if my answer seemed harsh. Yeah I understand that for ForGG it's the best move, but if you factor in ethics, it's not acceptable to pick your teammate. Look at Liquid players in Challenger last season, for example.
At least we're sort of on the same page, and yeah what ForGG did is kinda unethical but still.....
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
Dude you are saying ForGG is a failure? He was the only player last year to represent Millenium in highest levesl, who else were there? Noone. And you are comparing Korean team with Milenium? They are all Korean players who live together and spend so much time together. Now think Lilbow, Marinelord and Dayshi are french, they are probably friends. But ForGG live alone and isnt close to them. So does he think if he chooses Dayshi about teamkill or his best chance to advance further? Well ForGG was till Lilbow and Marinelord started to show some results, the best player in Millenium, and you cant denie that. I am pretty sure, because of ForGG Millenium earned some money too. Disrespectful to Dayshi? Maybe yes, I feel sorry for Dayshi, Disrespectful to Millenium? Nope, he represented Millenium good enough.
On July 12 2015 18:44 TsogiMaster wrote: I dont still get why people are complaining about ForGG picking Dayshi. Yes they are teammates, but its 1vs1 game and Dayshi is for him the easiest way to reach premier.
Because they are teammates there is no "but"...
The term "Teammates" in 1vs1 tournament has no big deal. Dude if I know i am 22-0 against him, then why wouldnt I choose him again, if I want to win a tournament? If they were close friends or live together in same teamhouse, its different story, ForGG is just a "Millenium player", who isnt close to the other members. And still teammates or not, its f...king 1vs1 GAME not a TEAMGAME.
Contrarily to "true" 1v1 games like Tennis or Chess, professional SC2 has this characteristic of having players paid by a team even though they play 1v1 and not team games. Thus yes, "teammate" in a 1v1 tournament in SC2 means something. You're not only playing (and behaving) for yourself and for your sponsors, like in Tennis, you're also playing for your team, since this team pays you to play for them. That's why, when someone like soO wins KeSPA Cup and makes 4 GSL finals, the glory does not only shine upon soO, but upon the whole of SKT. Same thing : when someone like ByuL goes from decent PL player and WCS AM contender to SSL semifinalist and arguably top 5/3 Zerg in the world, the glory also shines upon CJ for making him progress like that. Same thing : when someone like YoDa goes from somewhat decent PL player to one of the worst player on Prime, people don't blame YoDa, they blame Prime for changing YoDa like that.
ForGG picking Dayshi is not only disrespectful to Dayshi because it's a teamkill and thus does not represent the true skill of the players (it's not even the 22-0 record, it's just the way teamkills are : mindgames play a way more important role in these than in non-teamkills), ForGG picking Dayshi is also disrespectful to Millenium because it eliminates one Millenium player straight-up (=less visibility), and it lessens the amount of broadcasted matches with Mill players in it (=less visibility). But well now I just hope Dayshi somehow 3-0s ForGG into retirement, that would be deserved. And if you think ForGG is the best player on Mill right now, you need to get some updates about the state of the scene. And ForGG is clearly not the best thing to happen to Mill, the guy wasn't even able to make the finals of WCS EU/WCS even once despite being one of the first Koreans to come... Except for that DH that he brilliantly won, he has been a failure in term of results.
Dude you are saying ForGG is a failure? He was the only player last year to represent Millenium in highest levesl, who else were there? Noone. And you are comparing Korean team with Milenium? They are all Korean players who live together and spend so much time together. Now think Lilbow, Marinelord and Dayshi are french, they are probably friends. But ForGG live alone and isnt close to them. So does he think if he chooses Dayshi about teamkill or his best chance to advance further? Well ForGG was till Lilbow and Marinelord started to show some results, the best player in Millenium, and you cant denie that. I am pretty sure, because of ForGG Millenium earned some money too. Disrespectful to Dayshi? Maybe yes, I feel sorry for Dayshi, Disrespectful to Millenium? Nope, he represented Millenium good enough.
So doing well for your team in the past allows you to do shit moves towards your team in the present? Man that's a nice way to think things, I guess by that reasoning you're OK with stealing money from your employer or selling industrial secrets to rivals because you made him earn money in the past.
If ForGG picked Dayshi because he is afraid of players like uThermal, Welmu, Nerchio or Naniwa, that's a bid sad for ForGG and I doubt that he can win WCS.
That's really sad for Dayshi, he was just starting playing SC2 full time again and obtained some results. I think he would have had a real change versus an other opponent. I hope he won't loose his motivation once again if he loose versus ForGG.
I don't think ForGG is a failure for Millenium, as he was the best player in their team for years, BUT I think Millenium expected him to win way more tournaments in Europe when they recruited him. Remember he was a Code S player when he arrived to Millenium in 2012. He did not play in Europe because they could not perform well anymore in Korea like MvP, MC jjakji, Duckdeock, MMA. He cancelled his code S spot to come and was expected to completely dominate Europe, which he never really did (it took 2 years to win a premier tournament).
On July 12 2015 23:40 Totorosc2 wrote: If ForGG picked Dayshi because he is afraid of players like uThermal, Welmu, Nerchio or Naniwa, that's a bid sad for ForGG and I doubt that he can win WCS.
That's really sad for Dayshi, he was just starting playing SC2 full time again and obtained some results. I think he would have had a real change versus an other opponent. I hope he won't loose his motivation once again if he loose versus ForGG.
I don't think ForGG is a failure for Millenium, as he was the best player in their team for years, BUT I think Millenium expected him to win way more tournaments in Europe when they recruited him. Remember he was a Code S player when he arrived to Millenium in 2012. He did not play in Europe because they could not perform well anymore in Korea like MvP, MC jjakji, Duckdeock, MMA. He cancelled his code S spot to come and was expected to completely dominate Europe, which he never really did (it took 2 years to win a premier tournament).
If i remember right, he wasnt alone here, MMA, Mvp and MC were since the first WCS here in Europe too. ForGG is good but against them he had almost no chance. And other tournaments like IEM, DH had Code S level players anyway. It made no difference.
On July 13 2015 00:52 SharkStarcraft wrote: nanibae got one of the most difficult players in the entirety of the European WCS. Hope he can pull through!
On July 12 2015 23:40 Totorosc2 wrote: If ForGG picked Dayshi because he is afraid of players like uThermal, Welmu, Nerchio or Naniwa, that's a bid sad for ForGG and I doubt that he can win WCS.
That's really sad for Dayshi, he was just starting playing SC2 full time again and obtained some results. I think he would have had a real change versus an other opponent. I hope he won't loose his motivation once again if he loose versus ForGG.
I don't think ForGG is a failure for Millenium, as he was the best player in their team for years, BUT I think Millenium expected him to win way more tournaments in Europe when they recruited him. Remember he was a Code S player when he arrived to Millenium in 2012. He did not play in Europe because they could not perform well anymore in Korea like MvP, MC jjakji, Duckdeock, MMA. He cancelled his code S spot to come and was expected to completely dominate Europe, which he never really did (it took 2 years to win a premier tournament).
MVP, MC, MMA were all better players than ForGG. Hell, even Jjakji was a GSL champion. They left Korea for different reasons but "code s player" is nothing too significant to believe he would have a walkover against them. Maybe he could win like one more premier title somewhere along the road but he is definitely what Millenium asked for - best player of the team and a star on EU level.
Actually, I think Mill has nothing to blame ForGG for. Suppose you have Dayshi, the worst player on team who is likely to drop already at Challenger and has no chances further whatsoever, and ForGG, your best player who currently struggles for whatever reasons but has a chance to win it all if he regains his form. Would you prefer a risk of losing both players or get one player to groups for sure?
On July 12 2015 23:40 Totorosc2 wrote: If ForGG picked Dayshi because he is afraid of players like uThermal, Welmu, Nerchio or Naniwa, that's a bid sad for ForGG and I doubt that he can win WCS.
That's really sad for Dayshi, he was just starting playing SC2 full time again and obtained some results. I think he would have had a real change versus an other opponent. I hope he won't loose his motivation once again if he loose versus ForGG.
I don't think ForGG is a failure for Millenium, as he was the best player in their team for years, BUT I think Millenium expected him to win way more tournaments in Europe when they recruited him. Remember he was a Code S player when he arrived to Millenium in 2012. He did not play in Europe because they could not perform well anymore in Korea like MvP, MC jjakji, Duckdeock, MMA. He cancelled his code S spot to come and was expected to completely dominate Europe, which he never really did (it took 2 years to win a premier tournament).
If you check ForGGs twitter he followed up by saying he isn't confident on these maps and thereforse choose the easy teamkill. Its sad but true, ForGG is afraid of 50% of the challengers. For those people saying ForGG is Mills best player and that he has a chance to win WCS, keep on dreaming.
If i remember right, he wasnt alone here, MMA, Mvp and MC were since the first WCS here in Europe too. ForGG is good but against them he had almost no chance. And other tournaments like IEM, DH had Code S level players anyway. It made no difference.
When Mvp arrived in WCS Europe, he was already declining due to his wrist problems. After his issues with Slayers MMA was quite terrible for a while. Jjakji arrived later and was also quite bad for a while after winning his GSL trophy.
If I remember correctly, when ForGG signed for Millenium, he just finished an awesome run in Code A (it was his first attempt qualifying for code S), beating Sage, Polt and JulyZerg without loosing a map. For me (and I probably was wrong :p), he was a rising start in SC2 and I expected him to be a future top 4 GSL player if he stayed in Korea.
I don't say he was the best Korean, but he always was showing an excellent level in Team leagues (even versus full Korean teams) and in early stages of tournaments. In term of skill, I would probably put him very close (maybe above) to MMA and Jjakji. At some point, he possibly had the best TvT in the world, and I found crazy that the only premier tournaments he won is a Dreamhack in 2014.
Actually, I think Mill has nothing to blame ForGG for. Suppose you have Dayshi, the worst player on team who is likely to drop already at Challenger and has no chances further whatsoever, and ForGG, your best player who currently struggles for whatever reasons but has a chance to win it all if he regains his form.
Are you saying that Dayshi had no chance if he was picked by Harstem (he beat him at HSCXI), Ret, Elfi, Elazer, Snute (he beat him in HSCXI), Mana and Showtime? I really think Dayshi had a good change against all those players. (he would not necessarily be the favorite, but he had a good chance to make it to Premier)
Wow, everyone here is super salty. Everyone getting mad in place of someone else - how about you ask Dayshi how he feels about it and then calm down? I'm sure none of the angry people here know how he reacted
Also to the person saying omg i lost all my respect for ForGG: Do you really think he cares? Do you think it matters? And about the 'Millenium should fine him for doing this' statement : Nowhere does it state picking your teammate is forbidden. Is it morally questionable? Yes, but that's about it.
On July 13 2015 02:55 cheerful wrote: Wow, everyone here is super salty. Everyone getting mad in place of someone else - how about you ask Dayshi how he feels about it and then calm down? I'm sure none of the angry people here know how he reacted
Also to the person saying omg i lost all my respect for ForGG: Do you really think he cares? Do you think it matters? And about the 'Millenium should fine him for doing this' statement : Nowhere does it state picking your teammate is forbidden. Is it morally questionable? Yes, but that's about it.
I'd like to add to this that for millenium this might even be the best course of action. Dayshi has a 0% chance of getting to blizzcon where as ForGG has ~10%. Giving forgg his easiest opponent possible, which ends up being dayshi, just makes sense from a standpoint of "Lets try and get at least 1 guy to blizzcon"
On July 12 2015 17:28 OtherWorld wrote: Okay ForGG lost all my respect for the third or fourth time in his career now, what a low move. That's just lame and Millenium should fine him for doing this. One of Snute and Serral not going into Premier sucks too, but I guess poor Snute didn't have much choice T_T
ForGG doesn't give a shit about your opinion (and no one does either) so don't bother, he plays it because it's his job not just a game. Every man for himself.
He actually does give a shit. Not only is his income tied to his fan base (which is probably connected to the large group of French millennium fans), but he even explained his thought process and apologized on twitter, saying that he didn't realize people would find it so BM
On July 13 2015 02:55 cheerful wrote: Wow, everyone here is super salty. Everyone getting mad in place of someone else - how about you ask Dayshi how he feels about it and then calm down? I'm sure none of the angry people here know how he reacted
Also to the person saying omg i lost all my respect for ForGG: Do you really think he cares? Do you think it matters? And about the 'Millenium should fine him for doing this' statement : Nowhere does it state picking your teammate is forbidden. Is it morally questionable? Yes, but that's about it.
Huh, would have guessed that ForGG would feel pretty much as confident against Heromarine for example. Just seems like a bit of a weird decision since one should expect backlash and whatnot.
And as always kinda nervous for all the Finns because of the level of their opponents, but hopefully will see at least two of them in premier next season. Never know.
On July 13 2015 02:55 cheerful wrote: Wow, everyone here is super salty. Everyone getting mad in place of someone else - how about you ask Dayshi how he feels about it and then calm down? I'm sure none of the angry people here know how he reacted
Also to the person saying omg i lost all my respect for ForGG: Do you really think he cares? Do you think it matters? And about the 'Millenium should fine him for doing this' statement : Nowhere does it state picking your teammate is forbidden. Is it morally questionable? Yes, but that's about it.
Damn I always love people who react with "do you think he gives a shit about your opinion?". Obviously I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, however yes just like any progamer his popularity is as essential as his skill to succeed, and you just have to look up the reactions to his tweet or on Millenium's site to know that I'm not the only one to feel that way. And please read carefully, I suggested that Millenium fine him, and I'm pretty sure Millenium (or any team for that matter) can fine their own players for literally every reason they could imagine. You don't need a "picking a teammate is forbidden" rule to fine your own players. And the fact that it's ethically questionable is the very reason why he should be fined.
On July 13 2015 06:27 D-light wrote: Huh, would have guessed that ForGG would feel pretty much as confident against Heromarine for example. Just seems like a bit of a weird decision since one should expect backlash and whatnot.
And as always kinda nervous for all the Finns because of the level of their opponents, but hopefully will see at least two of them in premier next season. Never know.
On TakeTV Stream during WCS Season 2 Finals heroMarine said, that he made over 100 TvT practice games with forGG and he, Heromarine, won most of the Bio vs Bio games. You rather pick a your teammate you have no real contact to then a recent practicepartners, who has over 100 recent TvT replays to analyse you. No Heromarine was out of limits. And Uthermal looks stronger then dayshi. And everything but TvT ForGG lacks something.
On July 13 2015 02:55 cheerful wrote: Wow, everyone here is super salty. Everyone getting mad in place of someone else - how about you ask Dayshi how he feels about it and then calm down? I'm sure none of the angry people here know how he reacted
Also to the person saying omg i lost all my respect for ForGG: Do you really think he cares? Do you think it matters? And about the 'Millenium should fine him for doing this' statement : Nowhere does it state picking your teammate is forbidden. Is it morally questionable? Yes, but that's about it.
Damn I always love people who react with "do you think he gives a shit about your opinion?". Obviously I know he doesn't give a shit about my opinion, however yes just like any progamer his popularity is as essential as his skill to succeed, and you just have to look up the reactions to his tweet or on Millenium's site to know that I'm not the only one to feel that way. And please read carefully, I suggested that Millenium fine him, and I'm pretty sure Millenium (or any team for that matter) can fine their own players for literally every reason they could imagine. You don't need a "picking a teammate is forbidden" rule to fine your own players. And the fact that it's ethically questionable is the very reason why he should be fined.
isn't a starcraft team basically just a sponsorship anyway? sure there are team leagues but WCS isn't a team league... like surely there are other individual sports where two people can be sponsored by the same group but still compete directly for a championship? isn't car racing like this (not sure, i don't follow it)?
On July 13 2015 08:24 Ciaus237 wrote: I would love to see Dayshi 3-0 ForGG with mindgames and cheesey plays. Have ForGG out of WCS in 15 minutes.
what a nice thing to say. If people knew about a players situation they wouldn't say shit like this.
If people knew about Dayshis situation they wouldn't say shit like this. #Actuallynicethingtosay
yea im sure thats why huk, also a foreign progamer on a pro team who's also struggling to stay competitive with koreans, told fans to "grow up" about it
On July 13 2015 08:24 Ciaus237 wrote: I would love to see Dayshi 3-0 ForGG with mindgames and cheesey plays. Have ForGG out of WCS in 15 minutes.
what a nice thing to say. If people knew about a players situation they wouldn't say shit like this.
If people knew about Dayshis situation they wouldn't say shit like this. #Actuallynicethingtosay
yea im sure thats why huk, also a foreign progamer on a pro team who's also struggling to stay competitive with koreans, told fans to "grow up" about it
About what, about wanting Dayshi to win over ForGG? Huk has said people should grow up from wanting Dayshi to win? Seriously I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying here.
The post I replied to said it was mean and ignorant to want Dayshi to win. Thats all I'm replying to. Let people root for whoever they want.
On July 13 2015 08:24 Ciaus237 wrote: I would love to see Dayshi 3-0 ForGG with mindgames and cheesey plays. Have ForGG out of WCS in 15 minutes.
what a nice thing to say. If people knew about a players situation they wouldn't say shit like this.
If people knew about Dayshis situation they wouldn't say shit like this. #Actuallynicethingtosay
yea im sure thats why huk, also a foreign progamer on a pro team who's also struggling to stay competitive with koreans, told fans to "grow up" about it
About what, about wanting Dayshi to win over ForGG? Huk has said people should grow up from wanting Dayshi to win? Seriously I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying here.
The post I replied to said it was mean and ignorant to want Dayshi to win. Thats all I'm replying to. Let people root for whoever they want.
lol, the guy who said he wanted forgg "out in 15 minutes" was clearly being vindictive and negative, not just rooting for dayshi, youre blind if you cant see that
On July 13 2015 08:24 Ciaus237 wrote: I would love to see Dayshi 3-0 ForGG with mindgames and cheesey plays. Have ForGG out of WCS in 15 minutes.
what a nice thing to say. If people knew about a players situation they wouldn't say shit like this.
If people knew about Dayshis situation they wouldn't say shit like this. #Actuallynicethingtosay
yea im sure thats why huk, also a foreign progamer on a pro team who's also struggling to stay competitive with koreans, told fans to "grow up" about it
About what, about wanting Dayshi to win over ForGG? Huk has said people should grow up from wanting Dayshi to win? Seriously I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying here.
The post I replied to said it was mean and ignorant to want Dayshi to win. Thats all I'm replying to. Let people root for whoever they want.
lol, the guy who said he wanted forgg "out in 15 minutes" was clearly being vindictive and negative, not just rooting for dayshi, youre blind if you cant see that
So because he is vindictive and negative he isn't entitled to his opinion?
I'm siding with the person who gets stepped on for expressing his opinion, doesn't mean I agree with the way he presented his opinion. If you disagree thats fine just say that, if you have arguements to counter his arguements say that. However if you say "your opinion is wrong and mine is right so stfu" then I'm going to shove that self righteous bullshit down your throat.
Well, ForGG has the right to choose whoever he wants, and even if it's a "dick" move, there's no "dick" move in the world of professionals. The only rule is to do whatever it takes for you to win as long as it within the legal bounds.
ForGG simply made a choice. Dayshi may be mad at him and that may affect things in the future, but you have to wonder as ForGG, is that really bad and worth a potential loss? Dayshi may be a good player, but it's not like ForGG won't have other training partners. I don't know if ForGG made the right choice, but he certainly did not take the worst choice imo.
ForGG made the right choice for HIMSELF. That being said it is a dick move imo. Sure SC2 is a 1v1 game, but purposely picking your Teammate when you have the choice is a dick move no matter how hard you try to spin it. Sure it is good for Millenium having one guarnateed spot in Premier, but people need to stop acting as if Dayshi would never actually make it into premier. He had a good showing at HSC (at least for someone who hasn´t been playing) and did well enough to qualify for Challenger. So that is one less Milenium player in Premier.
Dick move? Yes. Good choice and decision for ForGG? Yes.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4MQahUa.jpg)
Lilbow vs 
SortOf
Bunny vs 
(not by choice).
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/v52JaEF.png)
