• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:11
CET 04:11
KST 12:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1225 users

Strat Chat: Updates and Vods

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-11 21:47:18
June 30 2015 15:54 GMT
#1
[image loading]

A twice monthly streamed talk show featuring the Team Liquid Strategy Members talking (and occasionally ranting) about a wide variety of subjects. This will be fairly informal and will be treated as a discussion between the TL Strategy members. We will have occasional guests with us to discuss the various topics.

We will take questions near the end of the show. You can post questions you would like answered in the thread here, on the stream during the question period, or tweet them to us at TLStrategyChat.

Featuring Your TL Strategy Team:
Matteo "Teoita" Lucchini - Wok master and lord of the rant. Supreme Commander of the TL Strategy forums.
Joel "Whitewing" Silverman - Game designer, strategy analyst, economist and teacher. Writer for TL Strategy and random player.
Christopher "SC2John" Meek - Strategy analyst and writer for TL Strategy. Former Zerg and Protoss player, now working mostly with the Heroes of the Storm team.
Jeremy "Jer99" Lalonde- Terran player, does interviews sometimes. The glove Terran.
Luis "Zeromus" Conceicao- Protoss player, did that economy article that was popular, wife is more attractive than he is. Leader of the TL Strategy team.


Next Show: Currently on Hiatus for Holidays!
Subject of Discussion: -
Stream: twitch.tv/johnsc2


Vods:
Episode 1 (Hard Counters): + Show Spoiler +
Video: Strat Chat Episode 1: Hard Counters
Audio: Strat Chat Episode 1 Audio

Episode 2 (Map Control): + Show Spoiler +
Video: Strat Chat Episode 2: Map Control
Audio: Strat Chat Episode 2 Audio

Episode 3 (Unit Design): + Show Spoiler +
Video: Strat Chat Episode 3: Unit Design
Audio: Strat Chat Episode 3 Audio

Episode 4 (Macro Mechanics): + Show Spoiler +
Video: Strat Chat Episode 4: Macro Mechanics
Audio: Strat Chat Episode 4 Audio

Episode 5 (Risk): + Show Spoiler +
Video: Strat Chat Episode 5: Risk
Audio: Strat Chat Episode 5 Audio

Episode 6 (Tech): + Show Spoiler +
Video: Strat Chat Episode 6: Tech
Audio: Strat Chat Episode 6 Audio

Episode 7 (Maps): + Show Spoiler +
Video: Strat Chat Episode 7: Maps
Audio: Strat Chat Episode 7 Audio

Episode 8 (Player Improvement): + Show Spoiler +
Video: Strat Chat Episode 8: Improvement
Audio: Strat Chat Episode 8 Audio

Episode 9 (Build Orders): + Show Spoiler +
Video: Strat Chat Episode 9: Build Orders
Audio: Coming soon!
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Ovid
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom948 Posts
June 30 2015 19:56 GMT
#2
On the subject of map control will you be discussing maps and map design and how it affects the ability of each race at different points to gain map control?
If you are will you dicuss particular map features that enable more dynamic back and forth mapcontrol based aggression.
I will make Yogg Saron priest work...
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10686 Posts
June 30 2015 19:58 GMT
#3
Awesome! Will check it out now. Thanks for sharing this TLStrat ~
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
June 30 2015 20:00 GMT
#4
On July 01 2015 04:56 Ovid wrote:
On the subject of map control will you be discussing maps and map design and how it affects the ability of each race at different points to gain map control?
If you are will you dicuss particular map features that enable more dynamic back and forth mapcontrol based aggression.


Oh absolutely, you can't discuss map control without discussing maps.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Ovid
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom948 Posts
June 30 2015 20:38 GMT
#5
On July 01 2015 05:00 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2015 04:56 Ovid wrote:
On the subject of map control will you be discussing maps and map design and how it affects the ability of each race at different points to gain map control?
If you are will you dicuss particular map features that enable more dynamic back and forth mapcontrol based aggression.


Oh absolutely, you can't discuss map control without discussing maps.


In the other thread Meavis the ex map maker/map maker offered to take part if the subject related to maps, are you going to bring him or another map maker on to help the discussion?
I will make Yogg Saron priest work...
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-30 23:53:38
June 30 2015 23:51 GMT
#6
On July 01 2015 05:38 Ovid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2015 05:00 Whitewing wrote:
On July 01 2015 04:56 Ovid wrote:
On the subject of map control will you be discussing maps and map design and how it affects the ability of each race at different points to gain map control?
If you are will you dicuss particular map features that enable more dynamic back and forth mapcontrol based aggression.


Oh absolutely, you can't discuss map control without discussing maps.


In the other thread Meavis the ex map maker/map maker offered to take part if the subject related to maps, are you going to bring him or another map maker on to help the discussion?


We won't be discussing map design and layout beyond how it relates with map control, so this is not a map specific episode. That said, it's certainly an idea to consider.

We will have a show on maps that's separate from this one at one point.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 08 2015 01:45 GMT
#7
Reminder that we will be hosting our second show this Saturday at 5:00pm EDT again! The subject this week is going to be Map Control and how units/maps relate to the concept :D.

Also, remember that you can follow us @TLStrategyChat on Twitter for up-to-date info!
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
tokinho
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States792 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-08 21:00:58
July 08 2015 20:59 GMT
#8
@sc2john, I was wondering if you could talk about game 1 hydra vs lilbow from the wcs finals.

Download all wcs s2 reps

Some insight, hydra shows +1 attack on the lings really early, trying to get lilbow to go blink stalkers to deal with muta. (he doesn't go muta) Lilbow scouts and goes chargelot archon. If you could talk about this game i think it would be interesting. It was a really good read by lilbow (who hydra would have seen him play a scouting heavy style and beat bunny by faking strength.) and heavily under appreciated. I think it also gives insight into the style lilbow plays as i think he is one of the best strategic protoss players at the moment.
Smile
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 09 2015 19:37 GMT
#9
On July 09 2015 05:59 tokinho wrote:
@sc2john, I was wondering if you could talk about game 1 hydra vs lilbow from the wcs finals.

Download all wcs s2 reps

Some insight, hydra shows +1 attack on the lings really early, trying to get lilbow to go blink stalkers to deal with muta. (he doesn't go muta) Lilbow scouts and goes chargelot archon. If you could talk about this game i think it would be interesting. It was a really good read by lilbow (who hydra would have seen him play a scouting heavy style and beat bunny by faking strength.) and heavily under appreciated. I think it also gives insight into the style lilbow plays as i think he is one of the best strategic protoss players at the moment.


I'll just address it here in the thread ^^.

This game sucks. Lilbow does a completely blind 3-base chargelot/archon build which Hydra fails to respond properly to. Basically, both players are completely tunnel-visioned into doing the strategy they prepared for the map, so much so that there is literally no real strategic interaction between the two of them. The fact that Lilbow's build just happens to get 2 archons at the exact timing that Hydra's roach timing hits is pure coincidence, and honestly only his excellent micro allows him to avoid outright losing there.

Don't copy this build on ladder unless you're okay with a 50/50 chance of winning.

+ Show Spoiler +
First of all, who the fuck is Lilbow lol, and why is he playing in the WCS finals. I've been out of the loop quite a bit, so my analysis may not be 100% on point, but I'll give it a go.

So the game starts with a risky gold base first, which doesn't actually gets scouted; To follow up, Hydra gets ling speed fairly quickly in order to defend it (6:15). So, from what I can tell, Lilbow blindly takes a 3rd nexus, and even though Hydra has the potential to rush out ~30 lings at 6:30, he chooses not to on the assumption that the gold base will get him further ahead in the long run. Tbh, I feel like Lilbow's early build matches up with Hydra's purely out of luck. Had Hydra just gone gasless triple hatch with the gold base, he would have been super far ahead; granted, that's unlikely, but the fact that Lilbow has no opportunity to punish Hydra's expansion is merely a factor of luck.

The chargelot/archon build was more pure luck. He starts charge before even scouting Hydra's base, so it was obviously a pre-planned build. Perhaps there's room in the build to cancel charge and go blink as he scouts the gas counts at the Zerg natural and 3rd (full gases at all bases mean no roach timing, likely mean mutalisks). The combination of only 3 bases and a total of 4 gases (assumed that the main base has both gases taken) means that Hydra is most definitely gearing up for a roach timing. The defense of the roach timing is absolutely beautiful. Again, the fact that this is a blind 3-base build going up against a Zerg player who went gold base first into ling speed into a fast third base means that the timings coincidentally lined up for the archons to just BARELY be able to get up in time. However, the micro is excellent.

The reason why chargelot/archon died for such a long time in pro play is that 1) colossus-less styles got LOLed on by swarm hosts, and 2) the threat of a heavy ground army (roaches/hydras) vs the threat of mutalisks made zealot/archon a huge risk -- you'd end up losing way too much trying to defend mutalisks to be able to make use of the raw power of the composition. As for new swarm hosts, I can't confirm on their efficacy versus gateway armies, but I assume they still do decently well if you pat attention and kite with them. In this scenario, Hydra panicked after losing his roach push so horribly and began spamming ling/roach while trying to do a cute counterattack with the swarm hosts. What he should have done instead was used the swarm hosts to kite the gateway army while using his ling/roach group to counterattack and building static defense at home. This would have whittled away the gateway numbers before Lilbow could move across the map and also forced defensive warpins to happen at home, allowing Hydra's superior 4-base economy to translate into a tech advantage and just steamroll the inferior zealot/archon composition.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Jowj
Profile Joined June 2012
United States248 Posts
July 10 2015 22:41 GMT
#10
Chris, Lilbow owns. 2nd at WCS, 5-8th at HSC in the last month. He's also been around since HOTS basically. Check out his results page:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Lilbow/Results
Strategy
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
July 10 2015 22:52 GMT
#11
Wtf Chris did you not get the memo? The new swarm hosts don't exist
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 11 2015 00:17 GMT
#12
On July 11 2015 07:52 Teoita wrote:
Wtf Chris did you not get the memo? The new swarm hosts don't exist


I guess Hydra vs Lilbow is a great example of why.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-11 01:49:02
July 11 2015 00:20 GMT
#13
Half way into the VoD, so everyone here has studied math or something related? Awesome!

Edit: It's really interesting how everyone has his own little view on this topic of hard counters and strategical diversity and strategical equilibria. Like, I would totally agree with Whitewings view when it comes to the Nash-Equilibrium stuff. But then again, I would totally take a very "vanilla" stance on what a hard counter is and why I think they are much worse than what you people say. (which has to do with the different definition I'd use)
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
July 11 2015 01:35 GMT
#14
On July 11 2015 09:20 Big J wrote:
Half way into the VoD, so everyone here has studied math or something related? Awesome!


I <3 math.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
July 11 2015 02:04 GMT
#15
On July 01 2015 08:51 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2015 05:38 Ovid wrote:
On July 01 2015 05:00 Whitewing wrote:
On July 01 2015 04:56 Ovid wrote:
On the subject of map control will you be discussing maps and map design and how it affects the ability of each race at different points to gain map control?
If you are will you dicuss particular map features that enable more dynamic back and forth mapcontrol based aggression.


Oh absolutely, you can't discuss map control without discussing maps.


In the other thread Meavis the ex map maker/map maker offered to take part if the subject related to maps, are you going to bring him or another map maker on to help the discussion?


We won't be discussing map design and layout beyond how it relates with map control, so this is not a map specific episode. That said, it's certainly an idea to consider.

We will have a show on maps that's separate from this one at one point.

If you guys are planning to have a map related/focused show I would really like to be there and talk about things, sounds lots of fun.
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
July 11 2015 02:15 GMT
#16
On July 11 2015 11:04 Uvantak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2015 08:51 Whitewing wrote:
On July 01 2015 05:38 Ovid wrote:
On July 01 2015 05:00 Whitewing wrote:
On July 01 2015 04:56 Ovid wrote:
On the subject of map control will you be discussing maps and map design and how it affects the ability of each race at different points to gain map control?
If you are will you dicuss particular map features that enable more dynamic back and forth mapcontrol based aggression.


Oh absolutely, you can't discuss map control without discussing maps.


In the other thread Meavis the ex map maker/map maker offered to take part if the subject related to maps, are you going to bring him or another map maker on to help the discussion?


We won't be discussing map design and layout beyond how it relates with map control, so this is not a map specific episode. That said, it's certainly an idea to consider.

We will have a show on maps that's separate from this one at one point.

If you guys are planning to have a map related/focused show I would really like to be there and talk about things, sounds lots of fun.


We absolutely will be doing a map focused show in the future.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 11 2015 16:32 GMT
#17
Strat Chat Episode 2 tonight at 5:00pm EDT! Tune in at www.twitch.tv/johnsc2 and submit us questions and thoughts @TLStrategyChat on Twitter!

http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2015/07/11
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 11 2015 20:47 GMT
#18
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
NEEDZMOAR
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Sweden1277 Posts
July 11 2015 21:31 GMT
#19
stream isnt listed under the event on the sidebar.
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
July 11 2015 21:43 GMT
#20
it's up there
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 49m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 151
Nathanias 81
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 723
Shuttle 109
NaDa 34
scan(afreeca) 34
Noble 21
Hm[arnc] 15
Icarus 4
Dota 2
monkeys_forever460
NeuroSwarm83
Counter-Strike
summit1g10122
minikerr62
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor197
Other Games
XaKoH 633
JimRising 464
Maynarde187
ViBE49
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick990
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 95
• Mapu16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• XenOsky 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22564
Other Games
• Scarra1826
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 49m
Wardi Open
8h 49m
Monday Night Weeklies
13h 49m
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.