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Chuddinater
Korea (South)169 Posts
On June 11 2015 12:31 T.O.P. wrote: They talk tough, but why not give us some evidence that MarineKing is innocent. After watching that game, he's guilty until proven innocent in my mind. I'm from America, so people are always innocent until proven guilty. | ||
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AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
On June 11 2015 12:31 T.O.P. wrote: They talk tough, but why not give us some evidence that MarineKing is innocent. After watching that game, he's guilty until proven innocent in my mind. OK - I hear what you are saying. MarineKing at this point is guilty of: 1) Playing like a silver league 6 year old. (never being minimap aware.) 2) Refusing to learn ( that stupid triple CC build he insists on using repeatedly.) 3) Having terrible nerves and being emotionally susceptible to breakage. 4) Failing his team. 5) Disappointing his fans. But He is innocent of matchfixing in the eyes of KESPA. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On June 11 2015 12:38 AxiomBlurr wrote: OK - I hear what you are saying. MarineKing at this point is guilty of: 1) Playing like a silver league 6 year old. (never being minimap aware.) 2) Refusing to learn ( that stupid triple CC build he insists on using repeatedly.) 3) Having terrible nerves and being emotionally susceptible to breakage. 4) Failing his team. 5) Disappointing his fans. But He is innocent of matchfixing in the eyes of KESPA. Sepp Blatter also insisted that FIFA was clean and that they had nothing to hide. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
On June 11 2015 12:48 T.O.P. wrote: Sepp Blatter also insisted that FIFA was clean and that they had nothing to hide. Well played sir! | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
We concluded that even though the match was suspicious there was no evidence that points to Marineking purposely throwing the match. Might as well pack it in now, because if that match wasn't proof that it was thrown. KeSPA's not only blind, they're stupid | ||
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Blargh
United States2104 Posts
On June 11 2015 12:15 paxconsciente wrote: Jesus, if MarineKing really wasn't match fixing his confidence must be completely ruined. He's playing so terribly that people are actually suspecting him of throwing games. Awful That's what happens when you play games (LoL) and try to come back to an actual esport, Sorry LoL fans. You'd really need to see the game to understand. It isn't just his insanely crazily poor performance/behavior during that game. There was also some very suspicious betting patterns on major betting sites (Pinnacle). Also, regarding your last bit... That's silly, as he had a decent performance upon coming back in PL (10-13, was the ace player) and also, towards the end of 2014, he got 2nd place in the Kespa Cup. He qualified by a qualifier, beat Parting 3-0, beat Zest 3-2, then lost to sOs in the finals. While he's doing pretty bad again, I'm pretty sure his current state is not due to playing a game like LoL... I'm not super fond of LoL either, but it isn't really necessary to go out of your way to shit on the game as an esport. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On June 11 2015 12:56 Blargh wrote: You'd really need to see the game to understand. It isn't just his insanely crazily poor performance/behavior during that game. There was also some very suspicious betting patterns on major betting sites (Pinnacle). Also, regarding your last bit... That's silly, as he had a decent performance upon coming back in PL (10-13, was the ace player) and also, towards the end of 2014, he got 2nd place in the Kespa Cup. He qualified by a qualifier, beat Parting 3-0, beat Zest 3-2, then lost to sOs in the finals. While he's doing pretty bad again, I'm pretty sure his current state is not due to playing a game like LoL... I'm not super fond of LoL either, but it isn't really necessary to go out of your way to shit on the game as an esport. It didn't take long for people to realize how 1-dimensional MarineKing still was, aye? | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 11 2015 12:48 T.O.P. wrote: Sepp Blatter also insisted that FIFA was clean and that they had nothing to hide. What's your point? I'm sure Alfred Dreyfus also claimed his innocence. The reality is KeSPA probably found nothing one way or another beyond what is known by the community in this case, and for lack of evidence decided he was innocent. Is that the right decision? I'd say so. Even if you believe in his guilt, it isn't beyond reason that MarineKing could play that badly. In fact that game isn't quite the worst game we've seen him ever play. I still remember that qualifier where people were divided about whether the player playing under the name MarineKing was actually him due to how badly he was playing. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On June 11 2015 13:03 ZigguratOfUr wrote: What's your point? I'm sure Alfred Dreyfus also claimed his innocence. His point was that just because an organization like FIFA or Kespa says they aren't corrupt, they still could be. Any time you have an internal investigation of an organization by the organization itself, it is a ridiculous situation and should be viewed as comedy as it is not serious. Anyone who understands what the term "conflict of interests" laughs at this situation. Anyway it didn't seem like a live interview, so of course it comes off like a bunch of softball questions with indirect answers. I would have liked someone to grill this guy and get real explanations about why they can't reveal everything about the MKP situation, why they can't share replays, why it matters that people know what their committee looks for, and get some real evidence that the bets weren't shady for MKP-Byul ect. They basically said "We investigated everything thoroughly and by the book, but we can't tell you what we did." And that doesn't mean anything. | ||
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Mistakes
United States1105 Posts
Good interview. I like it. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10890 Posts
On June 11 2015 11:25 MirGHeaT wrote: basically, no match fixing or else you go to kespa jail Amzzing, keep up the good work KeSPA!! | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
On June 11 2015 12:10 plasmidghost wrote: I wish there were similar punishments in Dota 2 for matchfixing, I don't like that a player that threw a game is allowed to play at the biggest tournament in the game's history. I don't care if it was one time or if the game didn't matter, he should not be allowed to play in premier tournaments anymore. This annoys the hell out of me in Dota too, but for some reason fans just don't give a fuck in that game. Every time someone fixes as match everyone goes well everyone makes mistakes let him back in he's paid the price after a few months, it's insane. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 11 2015 13:09 BronzeKnee wrote: His point was that just because an organization like FIFA or Kespa says they aren't corrupt, they still could be. Any time you have an internal investigation of an organization by the organization itself, it is a ridiculous situation and should be viewed as comedy as it is not serious. Anyone who understands what the term "conflict of interests" laughs at this situation. Anyway it didn't seem like a live interview, so of course it comes off like a bunch of softball questions with indirect answers. I would have liked someone to grill this guy and get real explanations about why they can't reveal everything about the MKP situation, why they can't share replays, why it matters that people know what their committee looks for, and get some real evidence that the bets weren't shady for MKP-Byul ect. They basically said "We investigated everything thoroughly and by the book, but we can't tell you what we did." And that doesn't mean anything. Nice. Now please tell me who should have investigated this. And also tell me what would constitute evidence that the bets weren't shady--in fact what would constitute evidence that any given bet isn't shady. edit: The one question I'm surprised TL didn't ask is whether there have been investigations of other matches or not. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On June 11 2015 12:48 T.O.P. wrote: Sepp Blatter also insisted that FIFA was clean and that they had nothing to hide. What the does that have to do with anything? Detective: "So sir, I have some suspicions of you, I am suspicious you committed murder..." Guilty until proven innocent person: ... Judge: "That is really convincing, these suspicions you have detective. This conjecture is very substantial, it holds so much weight. The way it points to things... is powerful." Detective: "I know right. He was near the crime scene. Anybody could have been near the crime scene, but when I went looking this was the guy I found. I looked in the one spot, and I found him there. " Judge: "So true. Did you know that Sepp Blatter lied to people?" Detective: "I did, and because Sepp Blatter lied, I am thinking that this person here is also guilty." Judge: "This is good enough for me... Sir you were guilty from the second we both saw you. We used to love you when you were in your prime as a competitive player, but now that you are not so good and you couldn't find some way to convince us of your innocence, which we stripped from you the second we saw you and created the idea in our minds that you were guilty, we now sentence you! ..." "You must spend the rest of your life with many of the people in this thread watching every sc2 VOD created from this point forward, you will prosecute everyone that loses a match by a large percentage. Then you will force them to prove that they did everything in their power to win the match beyond a reasonable doubt. If not, then they will be sentenced to join the rest of you in reviewing more VODS until either the peer review is so substantial that every pro player and every spectator are reviewing every game played, or until someone has payed the price. It can be just about anyone, we just have to assume their guilt first." Detective: "This is a wonderful society we are living in!" Judge: "WELL PLAYED SIR!" | ||
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RenSC2
United States1099 Posts
Hopefully the investigation and possible penalties scare every player who contemplates throwing a match and we won't have this situation anymore. However, I have a bad feeling that it'll just make players be a little more careful about how they match-fix and make sure that there isn't a money-trail or conversation-trail to catch them on. | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
On June 11 2015 13:42 StasisField wrote: I don't know what all of the witch hunters want at this point. We've had interviews from multiple people stating marineking is clean and Wolf stated in TLG how they go about this very very thorough process (they took his phone and pc and went through all files and messages on both). "We want more! We want evidence he's innocent!" When did it become guilty until proven innocent? There has been nothing proving he's guilty. Why do we need more? KesPA has always taken these things seriously. Idk why people think that suddenly they stopped caring and are just trying to cover everything up. It became guilty until proven innocent when there was enough evidence to claim that this is a legitimate possibility. All we are asking for is for a transparent investigation. Which probably will never happen. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On June 11 2015 14:18 TBone- wrote: It became guilty until proven innocent when there was enough evidence to claim that this is a legitimate possibility. All we are asking for is for a transparent investigation. Which probably will never happen. Yeh, throw a guy who has a reputation for both terrible and amazing gameplay under the bus for losing a game like a moron. Did any of you guys watch mkp during 2013? Cause it's almost certain that he was worse then (relative to his peers) then he is now. | ||
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