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TL Map Contest 6 - Voting! - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
146 CommentsPost a Reply
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EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
May 13 2015 17:42 GMT
#121
I see how players have good options during 3-4 base stage but nothing is stopping PTvZ from expanding towards enemy at any point, especially after that. I know 5+ bases is a long game but I don't like that Z has no way to avoid the issue, which necessarily crimps their ability to play a passive macro style, in turn truncating the whole tree of strategies for them and tilting the options basket in favor of the opponent. And it can set in before that if PT wants it to. e.g. Protoss can very well expand up when zerg does, the openess and distance of that base is comparable to Overgrowth where it happens all the time, and in fact there is less backstab potential because of the single-ramp leading to the nat platform. And then the push distance is very short and they have great chokepoints to work with (which can represent very big liability to zerg at various timings).

I don't think the map is particularly broken, I still like it, I just fear it's kind of "played out" already.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
IncubusStarCraft2
Profile Joined September 2014
Canada18 Posts
May 13 2015 18:26 GMT
#122
Moonlight Madness is one of the most aesthetically pleasing and interesting maps I've seen in a while, better than most of the other factory copy maps I see pumped out of TL usually.
NasusAndDraven
Profile Joined April 2015
359 Posts
May 13 2015 18:47 GMT
#123
On May 13 2015 22:47 Barrin wrote:
I came up with a definition for Circle Syndrome the other week.

Circle Syndrome - The tendency for a map to encourage base trade scenarios.

First off i want to tell you that i am a big fan. Especially your post on FRB and circle syndrome are pretty much my thoughts worded much better than i ever could.

But come on man, dont define a term by one of its effects, but instead by its causes. Like "distance of opposing players expansions increase as they go on" or something.
NasusAndDraven
Profile Joined April 2015
359 Posts
May 13 2015 18:51 GMT
#124
On May 14 2015 02:42 EatThePath wrote:
I see how players have good options during 3-4 base stage but nothing is stopping PTvZ from expanding towards enemy at any point, especially after that. I know 5+ bases is a long game but I don't like that Z has no way to avoid the issue, which necessarily crimps their ability to play a passive macro style, in turn truncating the whole tree of strategies for them and tilting the options basket in favor of the opponent.


Bases being near each other is not a zerg disadvantage at late game. If you have not noticed yet, then ill tell you that lategame zerg army is not very mobile.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
May 13 2015 19:14 GMT
#125
On May 14 2015 03:51 NasusAndDraven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2015 02:42 EatThePath wrote:
I see how players have good options during 3-4 base stage but nothing is stopping PTvZ from expanding towards enemy at any point, especially after that. I know 5+ bases is a long game but I don't like that Z has no way to avoid the issue, which necessarily crimps their ability to play a passive macro style, in turn truncating the whole tree of strategies for them and tilting the options basket in favor of the opponent.


Bases being near each other is not a zerg disadvantage at late game. If you have not noticed yet, then ill tell you that lategame zerg army is not very mobile.

Are we talking HotS still? Cause that's only BLs, which is more of a tech switch thing.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-14 00:33:16
May 13 2015 21:41 GMT
#126
--- Nuked ---
RolyPoly~
Profile Joined October 2014
Austria9 Posts
May 14 2015 22:10 GMT
#127
kinda disappointed with this tlmc in terms of layouts =/
looks are super good as always, but ganymede is better than all of those maps and should have won the last one imo..
twitch.tv/r0lyp0ly
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-16 01:51:30
May 15 2015 16:18 GMT
#128
--- Nuked ---
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-16 02:14:25
May 16 2015 02:12 GMT
#129
--- Nuked ---
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-16 03:00:12
May 16 2015 02:58 GMT
#130
One problem is the maps you listed as having a chance are (almost certainly) bad for Zerg. Z winrates are slightly down lately as it is, so the timing of this is unfortunate. Bridgehead isn't so bad on Zerg at least so yay for that.

As you were saying I agree that noah's might technically hold a decent winrate for Z but it would probably be through people always going muta and/or fast broodlords, which would get old quickly. Maybe we'll see though

@ what the pros said to the maps on remax et al, I can't take them seriously too often on the subject (a few do their homework, but generally.. no) as the only maps they've played on are the super super standard ladder/tourney stuff we've seen through the years. Anything remotely strange and they freak out without actually trying to understand the map. Probably the "weirdest" map they've played lately (barring the stuff in shoutcraft which a handful of pros have played) is inferno pools.. lol.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-16 05:49:26
May 16 2015 05:48 GMT
#131
On May 16 2015 11:58 Fatam wrote:

@ what the pros said to the maps on remax et al


The best part about this is all the "pros" bitched when Desrow wanted to talk about TLMC6 maps. It just goes to show that a lot of pro gamers don't really give a shit about maps and just hope blizzard puts in good enough maps. Then the best part is when those maps that blizzard puts in are imbalanced, then the pros start to bitch.

Well then, how about instead of Huk and Naniwa just bitching about gold bases and saying they are out, they help us map makers out with better feedback so we can actually create some more balanced maps. But fuck it, who cares about maps, they need to stream and joke and fuck around to make $$$$$.

It's depressing...it really is...when the progamers don't give a shit about maps when that's the one thing players can do that balances the game.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
NasusAndDraven
Profile Joined April 2015
359 Posts
May 16 2015 06:39 GMT
#132
My opinion
1. Terraform
2. Dash and Terminal
3. Noahs Ark
4. Mutiny
5. Bridgehead
6. Ecosphere
7. Moonlight Madness

My prediction on community votes
1. Terraform
2. Bridgehead
3. Noahs Ark
4. Dash And Terminal
5. Ecosphere
Tied with 0 votes. Mutiny and Moonlight madness.
Rukis
Profile Joined April 2009
United States252 Posts
May 16 2015 06:46 GMT
#133
I really think Bridgehead will bring out a lot more interesting game play in pro-leagues rather than a ladder map. That being said I think Terraform is more of a ladder map than a pro-league map.
Flash was the Genius, Nada was the true god.
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
May 16 2015 08:16 GMT
#134
I'm a scrub (and a mapmaker) so I tend to think of maps more in terms of concept than balance. Because of this I put Noah's Ark at #1, just because we've never seen a map with this many narrow chokes in competitive SC2 and I've always wanted to know how it would play out, notably whether Z can adapt to it.

My preferences in order:
1. Noah's Ark
2. Moonlight Madness
3. Dash and Terminal
4. Bridgehead
5. Terraform/Mutiny
7. Ecosphere
vibeo gane,
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-16 09:06:15
May 16 2015 08:57 GMT
#135
On May 16 2015 17:16 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Because of this I put Noah's Ark at #1, just because we've never seen a map with this many narrow chokes in competitive SC2 and I've always wanted to know how it would play out, notably whether Z can adapt to it.

You have seen nothing yet. I was working on this a few years ago.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

ignore the No Forcefield thing. I was simply experimenting with burrowed, invisible, invinsible 1x1 ultralisks to prevent some forcefield bullshit.


Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-16 09:11:04
May 16 2015 09:05 GMT
#136
On May 16 2015 17:57 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2015 17:16 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Because of this I put Noah's Ark at #1, just because we've never seen a map with this many narrow chokes in competitive SC2 and I've always wanted to know how it would play out, notably whether Z can adapt to it.

You have seen nothing yet. I was working on this a few years ago.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


oh I'm very familiar with your crazy concepts, I downloaded the map folder you made public. If anything I'm desperately hoping they become viable in LotV once Z finally has a decent forcefield-killer and choke abusing units. I've also been wanting to make stuff like that for a long time now.
vibeo gane,
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
May 16 2015 20:55 GMT
#137
2 days left! Get your vote on!

Will the results be posted maybe that same day or the day after or will there be a delay on the results as well?
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-17 20:22:52
May 17 2015 20:21 GMT
#138
--- Nuked ---
RHoudini
Profile Joined October 2009
Belgium3627 Posts
May 17 2015 20:31 GMT
#139
1. Bridgehead
2. Noah's Ark
Lee Jae Dong fighting!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-17 22:08:04
May 17 2015 22:07 GMT
#140
I think D&T is the one map that could eventually be both, innovative and somewhat balanced. Though I would give it a higher chance if it didnt have the rocks AND the Gold bases AND the siegable natural on top of its interesting gimmick.
Really hoping Terraform wins, Barrin basically explained why. Bridgeheads backdoor looks too wide and I dislike the fact that you have a highground to defend behind your third the way you stretch out vertically already.
Noah's Arc is the kind of map I'd instaveto. I don't care if by some miracle it turns out balanced, I know that anytime a protoss spawns there on the ladder it's going to be a soultrain or some other brainless BO-shit that lacks any strategical interaction beween players and is basically a waste of time to play as zerg.
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