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TL Map Contest 6 - Voting! - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
146 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
May 13 2015 03:41 GMT
#101
On May 13 2015 10:12 Barrin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2015 09:18 -NegativeZero- wrote:
PSA: Terraform is actually a bad map.

Why do you say that?

because i want noah's ark to win
vibeo gane,
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
May 13 2015 05:36 GMT
#102
--- Nuked ---
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
May 13 2015 06:45 GMT
#103
I'm actually having quite some reservations about Ark even though "I like it the best". The CS is going to get old quick. The chokepoints kind of make up for this in terms of positional play but games that go to 5th base are going to have problems with push distance and lack of options. Going YOLO for Bridgehead is so tempting.

Tune in next post as the drama of WHAT WILL PATH VOTE FOR!?!? continues
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
voltz_sc2
Profile Blog Joined April 2015
22 Posts
May 13 2015 07:38 GMT
#104
SEMMO HYPE
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 13 2015 07:42 GMT
#105
A vote for Terraform is a vote for Starcraft. Ask yourself, do you hate Starcraft? Else, you know what to do!
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
May 13 2015 07:58 GMT
#106
On May 13 2015 15:45 EatThePath wrote:
I'm actually having quite some reservations about Ark even though "I like it the best". The CS is going to get old quick. The chokepoints kind of make up for this in terms of positional play but games that go to 5th base are going to have problems with push distance and lack of options. Going YOLO for Bridgehead is so tempting.

Tune in next post as the drama of WHAT WILL PATH VOTE FOR!?!? continues

I'm in the same bote, I haven't used my vote yet because I'm not sure what map I'll go for.
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
May 13 2015 08:36 GMT
#107
On May 13 2015 14:36 Barrin wrote:
Do we have any Zerg players pushing for Noah's Ark? :>

I was worried that zerg would be too strong because the 3rd is a bit far away. I moved them closer since.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
May 13 2015 09:21 GMT
#108
On May 13 2015 10:56 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2015 08:38 Dapper_Cad wrote:
I'm all for pushing the boundaries with map making so I'm personally very pleased with the map selection. The down side is of course the reduced likelihood that blizzard will pick the map up but... well... what can you do?

Also want to add my voice to the call for slightly more subtle voting. There was a referendum on Alternative Vote in the UK a while back and it was much better, perhaps not best but better.

Everyone ranks em 1 - x

Count up all the no 1 votes

Last place gets removed and all those that voted for it have their number 2 option become their number 1 option.

New last place gets removed and all those that voted for it have their next highest option become their number 1 option.

Repeat until one map has over 50% of the vote.

Coming from a country with MMP (shoutouts to Germany for being the only other country that I know of with this system) and one which has held 2 referenda on the topic in my lifetime I'm well versed in alternate vote systems. The reality is that all voting systems have drawbacks and advantages, there is rarely an objective best system. Alternate vote systems (stv etc) often favour the least hated map rather than the map that appeals to most people. That isn't always the map that the contest is looking for.

While the current system favours "different" maps we endeavor to choose maps which are distinct from each other to minimise this effect (unlike politics where identity is chosen strategically to gain the most vote withing the electoral system). Funnily enough, last season we were concerned echo/coda were too similar and yet they finished 1st/3rd last season!

There is also the progamer vote to offset any serious distortions in the public vote (ie we have a correction mechanism if the public gets things horribly wrong). Finally, while this will determine the cash prizes, Blizzard ultimately will choose the map(s) they like for use - and let's not forget that biome wasn't on ladder.


That probably came across as condescending. The political conversation in the UK is bizarrely simplistic: All sectors of the press panned AV as "too complex" for the dribbling herd, that plus the fact that our current electoral system is based on how fast a horse can run means I've a bit of a chip on my shoulder about this stuff. Sorry.

Thanks for the info.
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-13 10:25:59
May 13 2015 10:18 GMT
#109
On May 13 2015 15:45 EatThePath wrote:
I'm actually having quite some reservations about Ark even though "I like it the best". The CS is going to get old quick. The chokepoints kind of make up for this in terms of positional play but games that go to 5th base are going to have problems with push distance and lack of options. Going YOLO for Bridgehead is so tempting.

Tune in next post as the drama of WHAT WILL PATH VOTE FOR!?!? continues

By CS you mean circle syndrome?
Circle syndrome is about always expanding in the same direction right?
On noah's ark, there will be several scenarios. you can expand equally to both directions or expand towards open expands or towards closed expands. You will do it to suit your playstyle.
ZvTP : zerg will prefer open expands. terran and protoss will prefer closed expands. That means both players will expands in the opposite halves.
TvP : terran will prefer open expands because forcefields. protoss will prefer closed expands.
i think all mirror matchups will tend to go towards closed expands.

That said, players could also expand to both sides because it stretches them less.

So in the end, the circle syndrome is an illusion because the map has an axis symetry and not a rotation symetry.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
May 13 2015 10:45 GMT
#110
Was a hard choice but I asked myself what I wanted to see played the most and Dash and Terminal was it.
Retired Mapmaker™
IeZaeL
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy991 Posts
May 13 2015 12:02 GMT
#111
If NEP was a finalist it could have easily been top3...
Author of Coda and Eastwatch.
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
May 13 2015 12:22 GMT
#112
On May 13 2015 21:02 IeZaeL wrote:
If NEP was a finalist it could have easily been top3...

NEP should have won the previous tlmc
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
IeZaeL
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy991 Posts
May 13 2015 12:29 GMT
#113
Thats how tlmc works though , the most standard map always win.
Author of Coda and Eastwatch.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-13 12:35:03
May 13 2015 12:29 GMT
#114
On May 13 2015 21:22 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2015 21:02 IeZaeL wrote:
If NEP was a finalist it could have easily been top3...

NEP should have won the previous tlmc

No, Ganymede should have won, and we should have had Cactus Valley/Ganymede/NEP on ladder
edit: changed a map
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
IeZaeL
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy991 Posts
May 13 2015 12:33 GMT
#115
On May 13 2015 21:29 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2015 21:22 Superouman wrote:
On May 13 2015 21:02 IeZaeL wrote:
If NEP was a finalist it could have easily been top3...

NEP should have won the previous tlmc

No, Ganymede should have won, and we should have had Coda/Ganymede/NEP on ladder

I would be fine with that. Better than Echo for sure.
Author of Coda and Eastwatch.
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-13 14:08:05
May 13 2015 13:47 GMT
#116
--- Nuked ---
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
May 13 2015 15:42 GMT
#117
On May 13 2015 21:29 IeZaeL wrote:
Thats how tlmc works though , the most standard map always win.

And then people complain that there are only standard maps on the ladder.

On May 13 2015 22:47 Barrin wrote:
I came up with a definition for Circle Syndrome the other week.

Circle Syndrome - The tendency for a map to encourage base trade scenarios.

Maps with high circle syndrome have a high tendency to encourage base trade scenarios and vice versa. All factors are to be considered.

If it weren't for the very tight chokes on the southeast bases, Noah's Ark would have unforgivably high Circle Syndrome.

edit: The CS on Noah's Ark is well within acceptable limits, but that's mostly due to how the southeast bases are nigh unassailable (super tight single choke& not much surrounding air space) for zerg in ZvT and ZvP and I guess terran in TvP (not sure) and in mirror matches.

edit2:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2015 17:36 Superouman wrote:
On May 13 2015 14:36 Barrin wrote:
Do we have any Zerg players pushing for Noah's Ark? :>

I was worried that zerg would be too strong because the 3rd is a bit far away. I moved them closer since.

I think the tighter the choke the farther they can be without giving zerg the advantage. Those chokes are very tight.


That means we dont have the same definition for the same words. But i see your point. Do i win a point for making an axis symetry map with circle syndrome? :D

My biggest fear about the 3rds is that it would be too hard to setup a base there because of the distance. But once you get the base up and running, it's fine.

Plus the very short distance by air for mutas and very long distance by ground. But it seems to be okay once you are prepared with turrets.

I enlarged the ridges compared to previous versions.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
May 13 2015 16:11 GMT
#118
--- Nuked ---
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-13 16:38:51
May 13 2015 16:38 GMT
#119
Plus the very short distance by air for mutas and very long distance by ground. But it seems to be okay once you are prepared with turrets.


Long distance thirds by ground but short by flight means P can easily die to muta (bigger problem for P than T, by the way, since turrets + repair is good, while cannons are meh and overcharge can be baited), but looks like you can blink somewhat decently from the third into the main so shouldn't be too bad.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
May 13 2015 17:25 GMT
#120
On May 14 2015 01:11 Barrin wrote:
Show nested quote +
That means we dont have the same definition for the same words.

I am the person who coined the term Circle Syndrome btw. I never gave it a definition until that one, and that's always what I meant by it. Words can change, but I'm pretty sure other mapmakers have already caught on to this [first] definition.

Show nested quote +
Do i win a point for making an axis symetry map with circle syndrome? :D

+ Show Spoiler +


Show nested quote +
My biggest fear about the 3rds is that it would be too hard to setup a base there because of the distance. But once you get the base up and running, it's fine.

Exactly. I don't think this is bad necessarily, it just means you can't rush for it too fast. But once you've made a bit of an army it's basically yours (and once you've got a big army the 4th is basically yours too). Thinking protoss, or terran in tvz, here.

Show nested quote +
Plus the very short distance by air for mutas and very long distance by ground.

Good point.

Show nested quote +
I enlarged the ridges compared to previous versions.

Compared to TLMC version? Are you allowed to change it still?

Let me see ^_^

I was talking about the previous of the map
First version
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Starbow version
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



On May 14 2015 01:38 Fatam wrote:but looks like you can blink somewhat decently from the third into the main so shouldn't be too bad.


I moved the closed third closer to the main for that reason.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
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