There was never a plan to continue the list, especially since the first 15 entries were already exhausting and because by the time I had written up the first 15, I had already passed 39,000 words. I believed that any more would cause over-saturation. However as I released each part in sequence it became more and more clear that people started to see being excluded off the list as being an insult. While I didn’t agree with that, I did believe that there were 4 players who were all extremely close to being in the top 15 or higher depending on how you weighed criteria. These 4 players were just a hair's breadth away from taking away the spots from the Top 15-10. All 4 deserve to be talked about in the same class as the first 15.
One more thing to note. While I rank them by numbers, the numbers themselves imply a larger gap between the players than there actually is in terms of ranking. There are essentially 6 tiers among the Great 19. Tier 1 is Mvp/Life. Tier 2 Taeja. Tier 3 MC. Tier 4, Polt/MMA. Tier 5 is Nestea/Zest/Innovation. Tier 6 is everyone else. And the differential between most of these players is even smaller than that implies. While I personally think a decimal point ranking system is ridiculous (as it is fundamentally the same as ranking them by whole numbers), I've decided to show you what a decimal point ranking would have looked like. The aim is merely to show you the difference between most of these players.
Mvp 1. Life 1.5. Taeja 2. MC 2.5. Polt/MMA 3/3.02. Nestea/Zest/Innovation 4, 4.1, 4.2. Rain 4.5, MarineKing 4.57, soO 4.6, Maru 4.63, DRG 4.65, Leenock 4.67, sOs 4.69, PartinG 4.71, Bomber 4.8, Soulkey 4.9.
20th (Which is one of these 7 players: herO, HerO, Hyun, Dear, Jaedong, Stephano, PuMa) was around the 7-8 mark.
And now onto the actual ranking for 19-16. You’ve hopefully read what my criteria were before and without further ado, here they are.
Achievements: Tier 1 GSL Season 1 2013 - 1st WCS Season 1 Finals 2013 - Top 4 GSL Season 3 2013 - Top 4 WCS Season 3 Finals 2013 - 2nd WCG KR - Top 3 Hot6ix Cup - 2nd IEM Taipei - Top 4
The entirety of SC2 zerg history can be summed up as a game of highlander. In every era of SC2 there has always been only one zerg at the top of the game. First there was Fruitdealer as he won the first ever GSL Open. He was then surpassed by Nestea, who would ritualistically defeat Fruitdealer in GSL May and cement his place as the greatest zerg on earth. He was then succeeded by DRG. After becoming the greatest zerg on earth, he slayed Nestea on the altar of GSL in one of the greatest ZvZs (and games) ever played in GSL Season 1 2012. Once Life entered the scene, he took the #1 spot and ended DRG’s career in the first ever reverse sweep in a finals at Iron Squid. Soulkey then cut down Life in GSL Season 5 of 2012 and took the mantle from Life’s hands in order to become the best zerg of 2013. His reign lasted one year, and just like all the zergs before him, he fell at the hands of the next great zerg soO in GSL Season 3 2013. (Incidentally, the mantle has yet to be passed on as Life and soO have yet to meet since Life’s return to #1).
And each of the highlanders (except Fruitdealer) had a rival. A counterpart that challenged them for dominion of the era. For soO it was Zest, for Nestea it was Mvp, for DRG it was MMA, for Life it was Leenock, and for Soulkey it was INnoVation. And their rivalry was what shaped the history of 2013.
Both were aces of their teams Woongjin_Stars and STX. Both teams ended up reaching the most historically prophetic Proleague match of all time. Though both teams disbanded after the finals, 6 of the 12 players in that finals moved on to become Champions (INnoVation, Soulkey, sOs, Dear, Classic and Trap). And among them Soulkey and INnoVation fought for the throne of 2013.
In total the two have met 8 times: three times in Proleague, twice in GSL (once a GSL Finals), once in OSL and twice more in WCG and IEM qualifiers. It was a battle between INnoVation's aggression against Soulkey’s defense. A battle of Soulkey’s composure against INnoVation's nerves. A battle that spanned across multiple tournaments both online and offline and led to some of the greatest matches ever played.
For Soulkey and INnoVation, their stories were were intrinsically connected.Two players whose skills and playstyles naturally clashed and defined the landscape of the entirety of 2013.
Play Style:
Perhaps the most apt way of describing the way Soulkey plays is to use the nickname Koreans have given him, “The Iron Wall.” Just as Life is all about attacking, Soulkey is very much about defense. This is especially true against protoss players as the shift into HotS caused many protoss players to resort to 2 base all-ins or cannon rushes early on in the expansion. The most notable thing about Soulkey’s defense was that he had the perfect sense of how to play around forcefields against protoss as well as pull drones at the exact moment to overwhelm the protoss offence when defending an all-in.
His ZvT was similarly defensive as he preferred to go for the mid to late game with muta ling bling. Despite that he was never above mixing in all-ins (particularly the roach-bane all-in) and adopted the TSL roach styles fairly well. He would sometimes also include Life style counter-attacks in his ZvT play to whittle down the enemy with his superior mechanics.
And finally, he was one of the major proponents of aggressive swarm host play. He was only able to pull it off because of his very strong game sense and map awareness, allowing him to use a strong mobile army to support his multi-pronged attacks.
Difference between Soulkey and the rest (HerO, herO, Stephano, Dear, Hyun, Jaedong)
The drop off between Soulkey and the rest of the players is the largest. The players below Soulkey can be split into three groups. Either those with strong international results, those with some Korean results and international results, and Dear. Soulkey trumps Dear by having a larger body of work within Korea for a longer amount of time and a longer period of consistency. Against the players outside of Korea, he outdoes them all in terms of prestige and path difficulty. Of course it wasn’t all straightforward. HerO and Stephano are both miles ahead of Soulkey when it comes to innovation. herO is much stronger in recent times (and the only one I’d bet on outside the top 19 to crack into it, unless Dear makes an MMA/Bomber like revival) and HyuN has a longer period of consistency. Basically all of the players below Soulkey just don't have enough of everything (and often only one thing) to really contest him.
What it takes to break into the Top 15:
What Soulkey lacks compared to Bomber, PartinG and sOs is a super massive win or a longer streak of consistency. In order to break into the top 15, Soulkey needs to win another tier 1 event and get a Top 4 at a Tier 3 event while staying strong through that period of time.
#18 | Bomber, I am the Law
Achievements Tier 1: MLG Fall 2012 - Top 4 IPL 5 - Top 4 OSL 2013 - Top 4 WCS Season 2 Finals - 1st Blizzcon 2013 - Top 4 WCS NA 2014 S2 - 2nd WCS NA 2014 S3 - 1st IEM San Jose - Top 4
Tier 2: Red Bull Austin - 2nd Red Bull Washington - 1st
“Even though I have failed many times, it makes those victories I do have all the more meaningful.”- Bomber
Bomber’s career and story is one that has a strange parallel with both MMA and Nestea. It is one very much couched in struggle. After spending years in obscurity against all wisdom, Nestea bet it all for one last chance to make his dream of becoming a pro-gamer become true. For MMA it was a struggle against his old team, against the pressure of trying to force himself back to the top, against the oncoming wave of new players that were ushered in with the KeSPA switch.
Bomber’s own struggle was no less arduous. From past to present, Bomber has struggled against the expectations he has placed on himself and the expectations that his fans have for him. After all, starting in 2011, he was the new hottest terran on the block. He had defeated Mvp in one of the great TvT matches of that era in Code A. No one could touch his macro, and though his control was sometimes sloppy, he more than made up for it with the massive amounts of units he could produce at any one time. Many believed—and some still do today—that he was one of the most skilled players of that era. And very briefly he fulfilled that promise as he made a run to his first ever Code S appearance before falling to ByuN in what could only be described as a choke.
He then followed it up with a MLG Raleigh 2011 title, but after the initial haze of victory he was unable to make it happen again in Korea for the rest of the year. Despite his best efforts, he fell back into mediocrity.
It was then that Bomber’s Law was codified.
Bomber's Law: Bomber will always disappoint.
Corollary to Bomber's Law: If Bomber does not disappoint, it will be in order to set up a bigger disappointment later.
For the next 3 years after MLG Raleigh, Bomber’s career was forced into a Sisyphean hell. Every time he entered a tournament, he’d push the boulder up the hill just far enough to make you believe he could finally win a tournament. Then, reality would snap back in and kick the boulder back down. Every time he forced himself to face this immense pressure of being a failure and every time he got close to the finish line, he’d stumble and never make it across.
The tragic farce continued as his fate was exacerbated when the calendar turned to 2013. By that time many had written him off as a has-been. A relic of a bygone age. A good player once, but not someone people expected to be able to compete with the new wave of KeSPA players. Despite reaching the Ro8 in GSL S1 2013, Tastosis called him a “Third-Rate Terran.” A player good enough to get into Code S, but one that was essentially a free win for “better” players like INnoVation or Flash. Bomber in typical fashion crushed them both, and just as he was building momentum to make you think he could finally make a big Korean finals, he lost to Rain.
Expectations for him were tepid entering WCS Season 2 Finals. After all, players like INnoVation, Rain and Maru were in attendance. Yet it wouldn’t be the superstars of the OSL that would claim victory that day, but Bomber. On August 25th, three years since Bomber had won his last Premier, Bomber had finally done it. Against people’s expectations, against some of the best players in the world, against a law that had cruelly haunted him his entire career, Bomber fought the Law and won.
And in typical Bomber fashion he then subsequently bombed out of every tournament before showing up again for another strong run at Blizzcon. Yet there is a lesson to be learned here. Bomber’s Law was not just a law about Bomber, but a law about all players. Everyone must inevitably face disappointment, face failure, face a time that makes one feel as though no matter what one does or what one tries, the very universe feels like its conspiring against him.
And yet stuck in this never-ending hell, Bomber got back up, again and again and again to challenge his fate for three years. Bomber had defeated the law. And in defeating it he had rewritten it. Look at the law again.
Bomber's Law: Bomber will always disappoint.
Corollary to Bomber's Law: If Bomber does not disappoint, it will be in order to set up a bigger disappointment later.
Before 2013, it was a statement of derision, a statement of failure, a statement of disappointment. Yet afterwards it became a statement of triumph. An encapsulation of all the struggles he had faced and the day he had finally defeated them.
Playstyle:
In terms of playstyle, Bomber is a very interesting player. Like Mvp, Bomber started off as one of the great macro players in 2011. For all of WoL, Bomber tried to make it work as he moved from meta to meta without flinching, using standard (albeit very greedy) styles of play no matter what. Beyond that, Bomber was never particularly impactful on the meta as his personal builds and tactics were often weird, unique and greedy.
As time went on however, Bomber came to realize the limits of playing a style so heavily dependent on mechanics. Since the beginning of 2013, Bomber has started to deviate from the way he has been known to play. While for the most part he still sticks to the standard, he now incorporates random strategies or builds from his countless years of experience, often leaving his opponents shocked and confused as they get run over. The best example of this was his finals against Jaedong, where he pulled out early mass marine stim timings, surprise combat shield marines attacks, anachronistic marine tank, and a triple bunker rush.
When watching a Bomber series now, you can basically expect anything he’s ever done from 2011 until now.
Difference between Bomber and Soulkey
This is fairly straight forward. Bomber just has more total runs of equal or greater competitive merit over a longer period of time in multiple metas and expansions. In terms of consistency it is extremely hard to measure. Soulkey’s consistency lasted for about 1.5 years as a top 5 zerg (1 year of which he was the top zerg). Bomber on the other hand is all over the place. For most of 2011 he was in or around Top 5 terrans and after that he was extremely sporadic. In 2012 he showed up for exactly 2 months as a Top 5 terran before falling down the ladder. In 2013, that peak went up to 3 months (OSL/Season 2 Finals and then an appearance at Blizzcon). 2014 was his most consistent year (though to be fair it was also the year he spent in WCS NA). Depending on how you look at it his total peak time was about 1.5 years, just a bit higher than Soulkey’s. Overall the amount of work Bomber has put in over the years is enough to push him over Soulkey’s consistency for that one year. Coupled with the longer resume sheet in tournaments, Bomber is the clear favorite over Soulkey.
What it takes to break into Top 15:
Bomber is on the cusp of breaking into the Top 15. All he'd need is a 1st place at a Tier 2 event or a Top 4 at a tier 1 event to break through.
#17 | Parting, The Soul Train
Achievements: Tier 1: WCS Korea 2012 - 3rd Blizz Cup 2011 - 2nd GSL 2015 S1 - 2nd GSL 2012 S2 - Top 4 GSL Global Championship - 2nd IEM Taipei - Top 4 WCG KR 2012 - 3rd WCG KR 2013 - 1st
Tier 2: HSC X - 1st WCS 2012 Finals - 1st WCS Asia Finals - 2nd
Tier 3: IEM Katowice 2013 - Top 4 MSI Beatit - Top 4 RB NY - 1st
Tier 4: WCG 2012 - 1st WCG 2013 - 3rd
Greatest Series Played: PartinG vs Jjakji - Code S Season 1 2012 Set 1 | Set 2
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it’s a God Damn Soul Train.
In one of the most memorable moments in the history of SC2, PartinG called out Life to join him in the his group during the GSL S1 2013 Ro16 group nominations calling Life, “An easy player.” In a game of egotistical chicken, each player continued to choose the hardest player possible until we ended with a group of PartinG, Life, Flash and INnoVation. At that time they were 4 of the 5 strongest players on earth. When asked about his group afterwards, PartinG commented, “I kinda expected this result when I picked Life. I am not surprised and I will make it out of the group anyway.”
PartinG would then go on to eliminate Flash and Life and move on to the Ro8.
There is no other player in the entirety of SC2 who has married their out of game antics with their in-game play style. PartinG is the most charismatic player in SC2 today. It was PartinG’s antics and ceremonies that brought popularity and life to Proleague as he galvanized his peers in a long game of ceremony-one-upmanship that lasted from the day he shot Flash with a ruler until the day Flash kicked PartinG’s name off a floating stadium. No one else today has had as many ceremonies or quips or interviews that are nearly as entertaining as his.
Perhaps the most telling interview from PartinG was after he had left SKT T1 to go find a foreign team. In that interview he likened KeSPA-trained players to domesticated zoo animals, while saying he himself was an untamed eSF animal, born to fight in the wilderness. With his departure from KeSPA, it was a marked change in PartinG.
While many agree that the KeSPA training regimen is the best in the world, there are some players who find that independent practice just suits them better. Players like Taeja and Polt come to mind, and PartinG was another. After leaving the house and joining YoeFW, Parting’s skill seemed to sky rocket. He was always a Top 5 protoss before the change, but now, in 2015, he is running clear as the best protoss player on earth and easily one of the Top 3 players of the year so far (the other two being Life and Maru).
PartinG is a man who has everything. He is well respected and loved by his peers. His fans adore him as one of the best personalities outside the game. He is one of the most successful players to have ever played the game; one of the richest and one of the most skilled.
Yet even with all of that—the love, the respect, the money—PartinG wants more. He still has that hunger of a wild animal. But what he hungers for isn’t food or money, but respect. What PartinG is searching for is recognition, not just to be included in a list of All Time Greats, but to be the The Greatest Protoss of All Time.
Playstyle:
Here is a piece of history that illuminates the very core of PartinG’s strength that allows him to do what he does. In WoL, PartinG had a build known as the Soul Train. It was a very fast 2 base immortal sentry all-in designed to kill the zerg before they ever got to BL/infestor. He used this strategy for all of 2012. Only 3 players were able to stop it: Life, Sniper, and Suppy (4 if you count Curious pre-empting the build with 10 pool). Sniper lost the rematch. Suppy took 2 maps, but lost the series. Life was the best player on the planet. I write this to make you understand that though the Soul Train was a very common build, PartinG was by far the best at it because he had the best force fields of any player bar none.
I do not think, from then to now, even with the years of extra practice and the transfer of the KeSPA players, that anyone has ever truly mastered the art of force fields the way Parting has. It is the very core of his play style and is one of the reasons he has never fallen out of the Top 5 protoss since the beginning of 2012. It allows him to do a huge plethora of builds, builds like:
Soul Train Genius' Soul Plane Seed Max out Inca Special Huk YOLO Triple Double Anypro Anytime Choya Gate Stardust Bust Naniwa's Double Dare The Warp Prism Delivery herO’s Nightmare Swag Train San Gate The Hongun Prayer Arthur's GIlded Gates Gold Train Oracles of Delphi Spirit Bomb The MVP 3 gate Classic’s Infinite Cannons
Many of those were strong all-ins or timing attacks, yet if you played too defensively and sacrificed your economy, you ended up playing PartinG in a macro game where he was equally skilled. He is incredibly flexible, has very fast thinking speed and has some of the best max army engagements of any protoss ever.
In addition to all of that, PartinG still has the best micro of any player out there today. He's been the best protoss micro player since the blink stalker changes in 2014. The blink stalker changes were instituted because blink all-ins were too strong on the maps at the time. These changes consisted of increasing research time, lowering MSC vision and making the maps much less blink friendly. After that change, many protoss found it hard to put on the amount of pressure they could before. In PartinG’s case, it seemed like he was putting on even more pressure. In a harsher patch, his micro shined even more as he dismantled player after player after player, especially in PvT (where in the last 5 months he has only dropped 1 set to Maru in offline PvT matches). Even just in terms of units, the only player that can claim to have better unit micro on any one unit is Trap for Oracles.
When you combine all of these aspects together—the force fields, the micro, the variety of builds, the late game decision making—you come to realize PartinG is the complete package. And more than that, he is the single best comeback player protoss has ever had. The only one that even comes close to him is MC. The reason for that is simple: PartinG can squeeze more out of his units than any other protoss alive. He knows exactly how much he can get away with, down to the last hit, and how to maximize his chances of victory.
Finally we come to his innovation. PartinG played arguably the single most important PvT in the meta in his series against Jjakji in GSL Season 1 2012. In that series, he unveiled his 2 base templar build. Storm tech, up to that point had been a dead tech ever since San got Khaydarin amulet removed. Many protoss players around the world had claimed it was just completely nonviable to open with storm and stay safe. PartinG proved them wrong, and his 2 base templar build became the cornerstone from which all options of PvT were opened and it has stayed that way up until the widow mine buff.
Difference between Parting and Bomber:
This one is much more complicated than Bomber and Soulkey. Essentially, when measuring up their paths, competitions and achievements, the two are relatively even. Bomber has bigger wins in the WCS Season 2 Finals and the WCS NA title and runner-up, but Parting has a larger resume to even out the prestige.
In the end the two biggest factors that determine why PartinG is ahead of Bomber is consistency and innovation. Bomber’s time at the top can usually be measured in months per year (except for his one year in 2011). PartinG on the other hand reached Top 5 protoss status at the beginning of 2012 and has been there up until today, leaving him with 3 years of consistency as a Top 5 protoss. In those 3 years, he spent the latter half of 2012 as a Top 3 protoss and all of 2015 so far as Top 1 protoss. In that aspect, PartinG leapfrogs ahead of Bomber. In addition, PartinG has helped innovate his race to a large degree and is one of the great protoss minds of SC2 (the others being MC, Squirtle, Creator, Rain, sOs and Zest).
What it takes to break into the Top 15:
PartinG is extremely close. He'd probably just need to take a Top 4 at a Tier 2 event to break into the top 15. Maybe a 1st at a Tier 3 event if he ran into a few strong players.
#16 | sOs, The Sadist
Achievements: Tier 1 GSL 2013 S1 - Top 4 WCS Season 1 Finals - 2nd Blizzcon 2013 - 1st IEM WC 2014 - 1st Hot6ix Cup - 1st
Losses come in all shapes and sizes. Some losses are easily forgotten; some make you feel bad for awhile before you forget about it; others make you rage; sometimes a loss can break you forever (Mvp vs TOP, Seed vs Byun). Those are normal losses. And then there are losses to sOs.
Losses to sOs are in a completely different hemisphere. The only protoss that even comes close to inflicting this amount of pain is Has. Back when he was first coming up, sOs’ nickname among Koreans was the Bastterjwa. Because when he played games, it looked like he was taking a baseball bat and brutally beating his opponents senseless.
And the epitome of this was his pair of finals against Jaedong and herO. In those finals, sOs became Cobb and he incepted the minds of Jaedong and herO. He opened their skulls and peaked into their brains, read their builds, thoughts, hopes and dreams. And then he mercilessly crushed them in the palm of his hand.
And that is very much the story of sOs. When is on form, when is running hot, he is the scariest player on Earth. Not because of any kind of transcendent skill difference he has over any other player, but because he has the perfect mind games. Coupled with his insanely wild style and unpredictable builds, he often beats opponents so badly that the audience is left openly feeling pity for his victims.
Playstyle:
sOs is the wildest protoss on any planet. NaNiwa describes him as both a genius and someone with incredible open mindedness towards the race. sOs has used unconventional compositions and build,s from mass void ray/DT, void ray chargelot archon, phoenix mass cannon zealot, double proxy assimilator steals, and proxy third bases in PvP, to mass phoenix carrier in PvT.
Perhaps his most important contribution was finding the multiple pathways of the gate first openers in PvZ and using those strange timings to constantly attack and throw zerg players off balance. In terms of both refinement and innovation, sOs is easily one of the best and has been one of the most influential protoss players post-HotS era.
Difference between sOs and PartinG
In many ways this was the most interesting comparison on the list as it very much speaks to the degrees of consistency, peak strength and prestige of the tournaments. It was a ranking made up of degrees of what they did. In terms of how close this ranking was, it was the second hardest comparison after MMA-Polt. In terms of innovation and refinement, both received maximum points. Both are instrumental in pushing their race forward and both are masters of the styles they play.
In terms of consistency PartinG has the edge as he’s had an additional year at the top while sOs didn’t reach that point until the beginning of 2013. In terms of peak, they had close to the same amount of time as #1 Protoss (sOs from the end of Blizzcon to the Ro8 GSL Season 1 2014, PartinG for all of 2015).
Then it came down to results. This was where the ranking became particularly complicated. In terms of sheer amount of players defeated, PartinG comes out ahead of sOs (though not by a huge amount like Taeja did over MC). In terms of prestigious wins, sOs is far ahead of PartinG. What it comes down to is the fact that PartinG's degree of consistency is not strong enough to overtake sOs' peak and prestige wins. Unlike Maru and soO, he wasn’t constantly reaching Top 4s or finals in GSL. He did not have the huge amount of results that Taeja did to eventually landslide MC. It was an incredibly close thing, but in the end sOs’ three big wins (Blizzcon, IEM WC and Hot6ix) were more impressive than Parting’s moderately larger resume and additional year of consistency, but just barely.
What it takes to break into the Top 15:
Probably just a Top 4 at a tier 3 event or higher so long as he played 1-2 Top 10 players along the way.
On May 06 2015 23:23 opisska wrote: Was it that PartinG tweet that made you do this, or you had it planned anyway?
they were all in contention for a spot in the main article, but stu already wrote a novel for the first 15 so we felt like writing articles for the runners up was too much. but people wanted it so he wrote it anyway.
On May 06 2015 23:23 opisska wrote: Was it that PartinG tweet that made you do this, or you had it planned anyway?
they were all in contention for a spot in the main article, but stu already wrote a novel for the first 15 so we felt like writing articles for the runners up was too much. but people wanted it so he wrote it anyway.
How much of the weight of these people would you attribute to PartinG?
Anyway, I think these articles are great, particularly when you remove the numbers from them, they really have a lot of memories in them (and a lot of fun stuff I missed because I did not follow for example Proleague for most of its existence). Now with these four*, they make a much more complete set.
gave in to the pressure! cant wait for bonus pt. 2 with herO included now. was this list was doomed from the start? if there was a poll id say 80% would say this list wasnt the very good.
On May 07 2015 00:21 Charoisaur wrote: now this list feels more complete but parting at #17 is still a joke.
I have a hard time putting him at a higher place than 15. And then, it's still based on specific criteria. You don't have to agree, but this is not a joke by far lol.
On May 07 2015 00:21 Charoisaur wrote: now this list feels more complete but parting at #17 is still a joke.
I have a hard time putting him at a higher place than 15. And then, it's still based on specific criteria. You don't have to agree, but this is not a joke by far lol.
based on the criteria that you mention, id have a even harder time placing him lower than 15.
you cant state something and say "prove me wrong guys!". thats like the whole bible thing, ya know? lets try to support our own beliefs when we announce something as bold as "GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME". yea yea criteria this journalism that. ive read everything and stichui has yet to give a legitimate answer other than "its my own criteria". that to me is a joke.
On May 07 2015 00:21 Charoisaur wrote: now this list feels more complete but parting at #17 is still a joke.
I have a hard time putting him at a higher place than 15. And then, it's still based on specific criteria. You don't have to agree, but this is not a joke by far lol.
based on the criteria that you mention, id have a even harder time placing him lower than 15.
you cant state something and say "prove me wrong guys!". thats like the whole bible thing, ya know? lets try to support our own beliefs when we announce something as bold as "GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME". yea yea criteria this journalism that. ive read everything and stichui has yet to give a legitimate answer other than "its my own criteria". that to me is a joke.
Based on the criteria that applied to ALL players, parting ended at 17. What else can Stuchiu do other than apply the same criteria to all players equally and let the result fall? You can either argue Stuchiu did not apply his criteria equally to all players, resulting in Parting being lower than where he supposed to be or you can argue Stuchiu's criteria is wrong. I find Stuchiu's criteria are very reasonable, and his explanation in the write up for each player showed to me he applied the same criteria to all players equally; therefore I don't see any argument to say this list is a joke.
You should state Partings 14 or 15th GSL Code S. No one has ever stay so consistent for so long. Parting invented the 1 gate into 3 bases 8 gate PvT build in WOL which crushes most Terrans. FInally Parting was robbed of his win against MKP in the Startale v Prime GSTL finals.
On May 07 2015 00:21 Charoisaur wrote: now this list feels more complete but parting at #17 is still a joke.
I have a hard time putting him at a higher place than 15. And then, it's still based on specific criteria. You don't have to agree, but this is not a joke by far lol.
based on the criteria that you mention, id have a even harder time placing him lower than 15.
you cant state something and say "prove me wrong guys!". thats like the whole bible thing, ya know? lets try to support our own beliefs when we announce something as bold as "GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME". yea yea criteria this journalism that. ive read everything and stichui has yet to give a legitimate answer other than "its my own criteria". that to me is a joke.
It's not like the "Is God real?"-discussion (I assume that's what you mean) at all. All the facts and every step in the reasoning is here, freely available. You're the joke if you think simply calling something else a joke and not dignifying that something with half the effort gives you more weight than the word of someone who did.
Okay, Stuchiu, you were feeling too guilty about parting after all? very cool read as always (only read 25% yet though) just something to fix in the Parting article in the end : texts are upon each other making the last 3 lines unreadable.
Just a technical question though (that might explain the parting issue) : why is WCS world 2012 a tier 2 event when WCS 2012 KR was tier 1, WCS world were kind of the equivalent of Blizzcon and even if foreigners where just there to be stomped by the KR protosses, it was still one the biggest event of 2012, wasn't it?
On May 07 2015 00:21 Charoisaur wrote: now this list feels more complete but parting at #17 is still a joke.
I have a hard time putting him at a higher place than 15. And then, it's still based on specific criteria. You don't have to agree, but this is not a joke by far lol.
based on the criteria that you mention, id have a even harder time placing him lower than 15.
you cant state something and say "prove me wrong guys!". thats like the whole bible thing, ya know? lets try to support our own beliefs when we announce something as bold as "GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME". yea yea criteria this journalism that. ive read everything and stichui has yet to give a legitimate answer other than "its my own criteria". that to me is a joke.
Based on the criteria that applied to ALL players, parting ended at 17. What else can Stuchiu do other than apply the same criteria to all players equally and let the result fall? You can either argue Stuchiu did not apply his criteria equally to all players, resulting in Parting being lower than where he supposed to be or you can argue Stuchiu's criteria is wrong. I find Stuchiu's criteria are very reasonable, and his explanation in the write up for each player showed to me he applied the same criteria to all players equally; therefore I don't see any argument to say this list is a joke.
Not so much as the criteria is wrong, but the weightage. For example, sOs. He has a very high peak, the best player on the planet and a lot of innovation. Very low on consistency when he gets bumped out of tournaments in qualifiers or 6 loss run in Proleague. Compared to say leenock, who is consistently good, but not so high peak. So maybe sOs gets a 9 for peak, 10 for innovation and 3 for consistency. Compared to leenock who is maybe 7-7-7. Also comparing tournament results etc. beating ryung in 2012 and beating herO in 2014 is completely different. Although they may be top 5 of their race at the time. All in all, a great effort that encourages more discussion but is in no way a definitive GOAT list.
Wow wtf no herO HerO JD Stephano Puma Naniwa I mean really you have to write 20-25 now come on Stuchiu this is just unacceptable. And while you're at it add in 26-50 that shouldn't take that long right? In al seriousness nice additions. Glad Bomber and Parting got to make an appearance even if it was tacked on at the end
Still think sOs is overrated. You said in the "difference between sOs and Parting" paragraph that they have had similar amount of time as the top protoss, sOs from Blizzcon to GSL season 1 and Parting for 2015 so far. But Parting beat sOs at Red Bull during that time where sOs was considered the best. He's had two incredible runs at huge single slim tournaments but personally I don't think that compares to Parting's consistency. The write-ups are really good in this one though, small amounts of feels were felt.
P.S. Did you really have to type out "Bomber's Law" twice I mean that dead horse is unrecognizable with how many times it's been beaten at this point
On May 07 2015 02:01 Yorkie wrote: Still think sOs is overrated. You said in the "difference between sOs and Parting" paragraph that they have had similar amount of time as the top protoss, sOs from Blizzcon to GSL season 1 and Parting for 2015 so far. But Parting beat sOs at Red Bull during that time where sOs was considered the best. He's had two incredible runs at huge single slim tournaments but personally I don't think that compares to Parting's consistency. The write-ups are really good in this one though, small amounts of feels were felt.
P.S. Did you really have to type out "Bomber's Law" twice I mean that dead horse is unrecognizable with how many times it's been beaten at this point
But now we know that consistency is never a thing for sOs. But what I still love about him is his mentality to keep on innovating, setting up new bounds to this game and be the ultimate mind-gamer. No one is close to that description. sOs makes this game look like it has so much possibility which is very important to the audience and new potential fans. And when sOs is in form, his games are brutal in funny ways.
Parting is like maru in a sense that his micro is great and mixes things up with weird builds, but he falls short to sOs' strategic thinking that goes beyond each set imho. I happened to read up that sOs prepared extensively and took notes on each map and its characteristics (not too sure though) when no one else was seemingly doing that. This means that sOs has contributed to the advancement of e-sports scene with a new standard of strategic preparation. This is what makes sOs special and I hope more players keep on contributing.
While I don't fully agree with 19-16, I do appreciate the write up!
Jw: since this was written probably before and during KeSPA cup, would your view on herO's place change? I'm not saying that you're wrong and I'm right. Just asking where you would rank herO, now. Or would it be the same?
On May 07 2015 01:44 Gwavajuice wrote: Okay, Stuchiu, you were feeling too guilty about parting after all? very cool read as always (only read 25% yet though) just something to fix in the Parting article in the end : texts are upon each other making the last 3 lines unreadable.
Just a technical question though (that might explain the parting issue) : why is WCS world 2012 a tier 2 event when WCS 2012 KR was tier 1, WCS world were kind of the equivalent of Blizzcon and even if foreigners where just there to be stomped by the KR protosses, it was still one the biggest event of 2012, wasn't it?
Because it followed the same format as WCG. WCG KR in terms of competition is much harder than WCG World. WCS 2012 (the finals) also had massive problems with sound, production, and had a lower tier of competition to even WCS Asia. For me prestige is the amount of recognition and respect that is given to a tournament based on multiple factors: (Production value, hype leading into the event, player competition, player conditions, etc.) WCS World Finals did worse on all fronts compared to WCS KR (and WCS EU).
I couldn't in good consciousness bump it up when I had already graded WCG Finals the same way.
On May 07 2015 02:27 Ja.Y. wrote: While I don't fully agree with 19-16, I do appreciate the write up!
Jw: since this was written probably before and during KeSPA cup, would your view on herO's place change? I'm not saying that you're wrong and I'm right. Just asking where you would rank herO, now. Or would it be the same?
herO went up, but not unequivocally over players like Jaedong, Hyun and HerO who have a massive amount of runs over the years (or in Jaedong's case multiple 2nd places in important tier 1 events).
On May 07 2015 01:01 covetousrat wrote: You should state Partings 14 or 15th GSL Code S. No one has ever stay so consistent for so long. Parting invented the 1 gate into 3 bases 8 gate PvT build in WOL which crushes most Terrans. FInally Parting was robbed of his win against MKP in the Startale v Prime GSTL finals.
Because consistent 'above average' performances aren't enough to raise someone to GOAT level. How many times did he make it to the round of 4, let alone the finals? IMO, purely being in Code S consistently isn't enough to displace people with less consistency but much higher peaks
I'm really surprised that the difference between 19th and 20th is so large. Apart from that nothing unexpected. I hope more people rage about PartinG though.
I think you're underestimating how incredibly strong Nestea was. Sure, the meta favored him, sure, people were worse back then, but he completely dominated the scene for almost a year. He went undefeated through an entire GSL.
I very much disagree with sOs above PartinG, but you are entitled to your opinion. Also, it's amazing to be able to read all of these descriptions and get nostalgia of the last 4-5 years of watching sc2
On May 07 2015 01:01 covetousrat wrote: You should state Partings 14 or 15th GSL Code S. No one has ever stay so consistent for so long. Parting invented the 1 gate into 3 bases 8 gate PvT build in WOL which crushes most Terrans. FInally Parting was robbed of his win against MKP in the Startale v Prime GSTL finals.
Because consistent 'above average' performances aren't enough to raise someone to GOAT level. How many times did he make it to the round of 4, let alone the finals? IMO, purely being in Code S consistently isn't enough to displace people with less consistency but much higher peaks
Rather than trawling through the Protoss Strat Guide, can we please please have links to all those builds you mentioned in Parting's section please? Did I forget to say please?
On May 07 2015 09:41 Maestro85 wrote: Rather than trawling through the Protoss Strat Guide, can we please please have links to all those builds you mentioned in Parting's section please? Did I forget to say please?
An easy guide to Protoss all-ins in the vein of Parting:
1. Pick 2 units. 2. Exhaustively test variants of 1-gate FE until you find one that gets an approximate fuck-ton of both said units. 3. Collect money directly from the tears of your vanquished opponents.
On May 07 2015 09:41 Maestro85 wrote: Rather than trawling through the Protoss Strat Guide, can we please please have links to all those builds you mentioned in Parting's section please? Did I forget to say please?
the only really cool one to check out is the spirit bomb, which was used in the 2012 blizzcup quarter finals parting vs violet i believe
On May 07 2015 01:44 Gwavajuice wrote: Okay, Stuchiu, you were feeling too guilty about parting after all? very cool read as always (only read 25% yet though) just something to fix in the Parting article in the end : texts are upon each other making the last 3 lines unreadable.
Just a technical question though (that might explain the parting issue) : why is WCS world 2012 a tier 2 event when WCS 2012 KR was tier 1, WCS world were kind of the equivalent of Blizzcon and even if foreigners where just there to be stomped by the KR protosses, it was still one the biggest event of 2012, wasn't it?
Because it followed the same format as WCG. WCG KR in terms of competition is much harder than WCG World. WCS 2012 (the finals) also had massive problems with sound, production, and had a lower tier of competition to even WCS Asia. For me prestige is the amount of recognition and respect that is given to a tournament based on multiple factors: (Production value, hype leading into the event, player competition, player conditions, etc.) WCS World Finals did worse on all fronts compared to WCS KR (and WCS EU).
I couldn't in good consciousness bump it up when I had already graded WCG Finals the same way.
On May 07 2015 02:27 Ja.Y. wrote: While I don't fully agree with 19-16, I do appreciate the write up!
Jw: since this was written probably before and during KeSPA cup, would your view on herO's place change? I'm not saying that you're wrong and I'm right. Just asking where you would rank herO, now. Or would it be the same?
herO went up, but not unequivocally over players like Jaedong, Hyun and HerO who have a massive amount of runs over the years (or in Jaedong's case multiple 2nd places in important tier 1 events).
Okay I see (because of time zones I couldn't watch WCS world live so I wasn't aware of the sound issues)
Still it feels strange that the qualifier of a qualifier of an event is rated higher than the event itself (iirc the wcs kr were not that stacked with a lot of good zerg missing?)
and technical issues... wouldn't it make Blizzcon 2014 a tier 3 event?
Anyway, thx for your answer, actually I don't care taht much about the ranks, the quality of the articles is the real thing in your work - and this quality is top tier
How outdated is this list? Since Parting is described as clear top protoss in 2015? ^^
"Even just in terms of units, the only player that can claim to have better unit micro on any one unit is Trap for Oracles." Also i disagree with this. herO has as good blinker micro as Parting. He defeated all his opponents in IEM with blink micro alone. Everyone knew it was coming and yet herO just outblinked them
On May 07 2015 19:08 sharkie wrote: How outdated is this list? Since Parting is described as clear top protoss in 2015? ^^
"Even just in terms of units, the only player that can claim to have better unit micro on any one unit is Trap for Oracles." Also i disagree with this. herO has as good blinker micro as Parting. He defeated all his opponents in IEM with blink micro alone. Everyone knew it was coming and yet herO just outblinked them
This was written a few days before the conclusion of KeSPA Cup, so herO moves up a few points.
herO's blink micro is better than PartinG's, but his blink decisions are less pristine. herO can be overly aggressive with his forward blinks especially against roach hydra, and it has gotten him to trouble many many times before. PartinG is much more conservative with his aggressive blinks, and has better timing for it. But in a pure blink war I'd favor herO by a hair.
On May 07 2015 19:08 sharkie wrote: How outdated is this list? Since Parting is described as clear top protoss in 2015? ^^
"Even just in terms of units, the only player that can claim to have better unit micro on any one unit is Trap for Oracles." Also i disagree with this. herO has as good blinker micro as Parting. He defeated all his opponents in IEM with blink micro alone. Everyone knew it was coming and yet herO just outblinked them
This was written a few days before the conclusion of KeSPA Cup, so herO moves up a few points.
herO's blink micro is better than PartinG's, but his blink decisions are less pristine. herO can be overly aggressive with his forward blinks especially against roach hydra, and it has gotten him to trouble many many times before. PartinG is much more conservative with his aggressive blinks, and has better timing for it. But in a pure blink war I'd favor herO by a hair.
In a pure blink war herO would blink forward aggressively and lose by underestminating his opponent's force.
Honestly I think they'd go down to the last few stalkers if they had to blink battle each other. Which is probably why they didn't do that in SSL - because they respect each other's abilities.
On May 07 2015 19:08 sharkie wrote: How outdated is this list? Since Parting is described as clear top protoss in 2015? ^^
"Even just in terms of units, the only player that can claim to have better unit micro on any one unit is Trap for Oracles." Also i disagree with this. herO has as good blinker micro as Parting. He defeated all his opponents in IEM with blink micro alone. Everyone knew it was coming and yet herO just outblinked them
This was written a few days before the conclusion of KeSPA Cup, so herO moves up a few points.
herO's blink micro is better than PartinG's, but his blink decisions are less pristine. herO can be overly aggressive with his forward blinks especially against roach hydra, and it has gotten him to trouble many many times before. PartinG is much more conservative with his aggressive blinks, and has better timing for it. But in a pure blink war I'd favor herO by a hair.
"PartinG is extremely close. He'd probably just need to take a Top 4 at a Tier 2 event to break into the top 15. Maybe a 1st at a Tier 3 event if he ran into a few strong players."
LOL, he's easily top 15 u fucked up and u know it.
Tier 1 should be korean tournament, blizzcon and 2013 WCS seasons final. Nothing more. That's the real problem. There's no fcking way polt's achievements are better than soulkey/soO/PartinG/Maru/... .
On May 10 2015 18:27 Halii wrote: Tier 1 should be korean tournament, blizzcon and 2013 WCS seasons final. Nothing more. That's the real problem. There's no fcking way polt's achievements are better than soulkey/soO/PartinG/Maru/... .
On May 10 2015 18:27 Halii wrote: Tier 1 should be korean tournament, blizzcon and 2013 WCS seasons final. Nothing more. That's the real problem. There's no fcking way polt's achievements are better than soulkey/soO/PartinG/Maru/... .
Money talks.
If money talks then Parting and sOs should be way higher given they are right behind Polt.
PartinG definitely deserves to be higher. A teammate and myself were talking about it and we were trying to figure out who would be ranked 2nd to Mvp, and it came down to Life and PartinG. Surprising to see that he'd be ranked so much lower.
On May 17 2015 16:03 Mistakes wrote: PartinG definitely deserves to be higher. A teammate and myself were talking about it and we were trying to figure out who would be ranked 2nd to Mvp, and it came down to Life and PartinG. Surprising to see that he'd be ranked so much lower.
Parting who never won a GSL, has only 5 premier wins, one of which is Homestory cup and another was without any wins against Koreans? You've got to be kidding me.
On May 17 2015 16:03 Mistakes wrote: PartinG definitely deserves to be higher. A teammate and myself were talking about it and we were trying to figure out who would be ranked 2nd to Mvp, and it came down to Life and PartinG. Surprising to see that he'd be ranked so much lower.
Parting who never won a GSL, has only 5 premier wins, one of which is Homestory cup and another was without any wins against Koreans? You've got to be kidding me.
Weird that you don't mention the world championship where the only korean he played was creator in the finals. Granted creator was good then but still HSC was harder.
As much as I agree/ understand with your despise of your reluctancy to use decimalls... please place life at 1.1.
MVP is a legemd and an innovator with great results. But few would argue that Life is insanely strong - he has a ton of GSLs and foreign wins and is at his peak the strongest player of all time. for the last ~3 years he has been either
1) the undisputed best player in the world (around the time where he beat mvp to be the first royal roader, or recently in the beginning of 2015, after winning the WCS and every other tournamnet)
2) one of the best players in the world, maybe losing every now-and-then and not getting into the Ro8
3) In a slump (the year before his WCS-win, i.e. 2014) but still one of the top-5 zergs in the world and a force to be reconned with, even though not quite the monster we hope for.
Admittedly I am a huge Life fan, but due to nostalgia and taken into account the creativity. mechanics and fighting spirit of Mvp (remember that one time when Naniwa was actually the favorite vs Mvp in GSL due mvps injured wrists?) I still (very reluctantly, as I think life would easily win a Bo15 vs him) would say that mvp is the greatest player of the WoL/HotS era. if (when) life wins another GSL he will cement his place as the best SC2 player this far. But Mvps preparation and creativity is legendary.
To conclude this rant (if anyone took the time to read it) Mvp and Life is at least one level above everyone else. Taeja looked like a beast - but never proved himself in the GSL the highest level tournament - especially at that time), MC, just like Mvp and Life, has shown ridiculous consistency over a long period of time and has got great results in the GSL, MMA Polt and MMA has been amazing at their peaks and has shown great consistency/come-back-power and are definitely well-worth a place in the hall of fame ... BUT
tl;dr Mvp and Life stand above everyone else. They are 1.0 and 1.1 the others are 2 and beyond
As much as I agree/ understand with your despise of your reluctancy to use decimalls... please place life at 1.1.
MVP is a legemd and an innovator with great results. But few would argue that Life is insanely strong - he has a ton of GSLs and foreign wins and is at his peak the strongest player of all time. for the last ~3 years he has been either
1) the undisputed best player in the world (around the time where he beat mvp to be the first royal roader, or recently in the beginning of 2015, after winning the WCS and every other tournamnet)
2) one of the best players in the world, maybe losing every now-and-then and not getting into the Ro8
3) In a slump (the year before his WCS-win, i.e. 2014) but still one of the top-5 zergs in the world and a force to be reconned with, even though not quite the monster we hope for.
Admittedly I am a huge Life fan, but due to nostalgia and taken into account the creativity. mechanics and fighting spirit of Mvp (remember that one time when Naniwa was actually the favorite vs Mvp in GSL due mvps injured wrists?) I still (very reluctantly, as I think life would easily win a Bo15 vs him) would say that mvp is the greatest player of the WoL/HotS era. if (when) life wins another GSL he will cement his place as the best SC2 player this far. But Mvps preparation and creativity is legendary.
To conclude this rant (if anyone took the time to read it) Mvp and Life is at least one level above everyone else. Taeja looked like a beast - but never proved himself in the GSL the highest level tournament - especially at that time), MC, just like Mvp and Life, has shown ridiculous consistency over a long period of time and has got great results in the GSL, MMA Polt and MMA has been amazing at their peaks and has shown great consistency/come-back-power and are definitely well-worth a place in the hall of fame ... BUT
tl;dr Mvp and Life stand above everyone else. They are 1.0 and 1.1 the others are 2 and beyond
Parting is not Top 15 GOAT, nor even Top 5 GOAT for Protoss (Zest, Classic, sOs, Rain, MC are all ahead of him).
Winning major trophies matter. And Parting hasn't done that. Those Top 5 Protoss have all won majors consistently more than Parting. He's good and plays entertainingly, but he's no winner material (at least, not yet).
Edit: herO is arguably in top 5 Protoss. But point here being that Parting clearly isn't, anyway.
I think it's time for an LotV version at least. Definitely Stats would be at the top of it though but good argument could be made for Inno, Maru, Rogue, Serral and maybe Dark.
On March 03 2019 04:00 Anc13nt wrote: I think it's time for an LotV version at least. Definitely Stats would be at the top of it though but good argument could be made for Inno, Maru, Rogue, Serral and maybe Dark.
Choosing between TY, Maru and Bogus is tough. I think TY has the edge for greater consistency.
Would probably put Zest above Solar, because his peak in early LotV was so high and the most consistent period of being at the top either of the two had across LotV. Very inconsistent both of these guys. But overall that list isn't too objectionable. Wondering if ByuN is too low though.
Choosing between TY, Maru and Bogus is tough. I think TY has the edge for greater consistency.
I'd have Maru and Bogus over TY and Dark but I can see why you'd do it differently if you value consistency over trophies. Also I'd put Rogue over Serral and Solar is too high imo
Choosing between TY, Maru and Bogus is tough. I think TY has the edge for greater consistency.
I'd have Maru and Bogus over TY and Dark but I can see why you'd do it differently if you value consistency over trophies. Also I'd put Rogue over Serral and Solar is too high imo
I 100% agree that Stats is number just through his sheer consistency, idk if I would have Dark #2 but there is at least an argument for it
Choosing between TY, Maru and Bogus is tough. I think TY has the edge for greater consistency.
I'd have Maru and Bogus over TY and Dark but I can see why you'd do it differently if you value consistency over trophies. Also I'd put Rogue over Serral and Solar is too high imo
I 100% agree that Stats is number just through his sheer consistency, idk if I would have Dark #2 but there is at least an argument for it
I mean really we can hardly even call Dark and Stats consistent anymore at this point. We basically take it for granted by now that they show up in the top 4 of big tournaments every few months. Stats even had a time where he was there every month.
What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
On March 03 2019 07:05 Xain0n wrote: What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
On March 03 2019 07:05 Xain0n wrote: What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
INnoVation, glad we agree
Not Inno of all people, no. We already had a list for HoTS.
On March 03 2019 07:05 Xain0n wrote: What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
No? LotV is here 4 years now. Neither Maru, nor Rogue no guess-who shouldn't be higher. The list is quite spot on.
On March 03 2019 07:05 Xain0n wrote: What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
INnoVation, glad we agree
Not Inno of all people, no. We already had a list for HoTS.
Innovation was the best Terran of 2017... won GSL vs the World, GSL, SSL. While he had bad 2018(and part of the 2016), he was a beast.
On March 03 2019 07:05 Xain0n wrote: What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
On March 03 2019 07:05 Xain0n wrote: What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
No? LotV is here 4 years now. Neither Maru, nor Rogue no guess-who shouldn't be higher. The list is quite spot on.
On March 03 2019 07:05 Xain0n wrote: What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
INnoVation, glad we agree
Not Inno of all people, no. We already had a list for HoTS.
Innovation was the best Terran of 2017... won GSL vs the World, GSL, SSL. While he had bad 2018(and part of the 2016), he was a beast.
It hasn't been four years yet, you know. I just said Inno should not be higher, not that he should be lower.
On March 03 2019 07:05 Xain0n wrote: What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
INnoVation, glad we agree
INno has been pretty average in Lotv
2017 was for the most part INno's year with 4 premier titles two of them star leagues, but sure average
On March 03 2019 07:05 Xain0n wrote: What would this based on? Premier titles? Earnings? Stats has been the most consistent player in LoTV, he could very well be #1; both Maru, Rogue and guess-who should be way higher on this list.
INnoVation, glad we agree
INno has been pretty average in Lotv
2017 was for the most part INno's year with 4 premier titles two of them star leagues, but sure average
Ranking by Achievements + Performance (> means higher, >= means higher but I think there are arguments the right player could be slightly higher than the left, = means very equal but I would slightly favor the player on the left)
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img.gomtv.net/imgdata/98000.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.redbull.com/cs/RedBull/RBImages/000/000/162/390/photo470x264/StarTale%20Bomber%20Sky%20Dive%204.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/u0nIzZL.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PHdbu7L.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DKOMgSM.gif)
![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--29MHpAgBFA/VQ6GDBsmRQI/AAAAAAAACew/CM_64gl6e4Q/s1600/00081.MTS(AVCHD)_20150322_172155.484.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://media.gamerhub.tv/editorial/2013/11/sos2.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0iI3lEz.jpg)
very cool read as always (only read 25% yet though) just something to fix in the Parting article in the end : texts are upon each other making the last 3 lines unreadable.
