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Greatest Players of All Time: The Finale - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
421 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 22 Next All
Rocket-Bear
Profile Joined July 2014
3070 Posts
May 01 2015 12:02 GMT
#321
On May 01 2015 20:58 rotta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2015 18:46 Eliezar wrote:
The greatest nonKorean's of all time would be nice too.

4. Snute
3. Jinro
2. Naniwa
1. Stephano

Who else is there?

IdrA Thorzain HuK Sen Nerchio

And even though Scarlett never won something big she should probably still make the list
Favorite players: Gh and Zai
InExcelsis
Profile Joined May 2013
United States38 Posts
May 01 2015 12:03 GMT
#322
I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo.
RPR_Tempest
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia7798 Posts
May 01 2015 12:16 GMT
#323
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote:
I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo.

I think it's arguably as impressive that Mvp was so consistently dominant when nobody really knew what they were doing. One new discovery and Mvp could have been irrelevant, kinda like Jinro sadly became. But nope, Mvp dominated always.
Soundwave, Zerg player from Canberra, Australia. @SoundwaveSC
Mikku
Profile Joined June 2012
Czech Republic58 Posts
May 01 2015 12:20 GMT
#324
I really do not understand the "more competitive" mantra. They all were on the same starting line. When MVP d ominated whole scene, it was because he was miles ahead over his competition. He was not time traveler who has some kind of unfair adventage.
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3748 Posts
May 01 2015 12:53 GMT
#325
On May 01 2015 21:02 Rocket-Bear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2015 20:58 rotta wrote:
On May 01 2015 18:46 Eliezar wrote:
The greatest nonKorean's of all time would be nice too.

4. Snute
3. Jinro
2. Naniwa
1. Stephano

Who else is there?

IdrA Thorzain HuK Sen Nerchio

And even though Scarlett never won something big she should probably still make the list

Also MaNa, Sen, perhaps White-Ra and Ret. Top 10 would be s.t. like
Stephano
HuK
NaNiwa
Jinro
MaNa
IdrA
ThorZaIN
Nerchio
Sen
Snute

Tchado
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Jordan1831 Posts
May 01 2015 13:20 GMT
#326
ALL HAIL THE KING !
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
May 01 2015 14:18 GMT
#327
MVP is a total Boss. Great article.
I had a good night of sleep.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 01 2015 14:24 GMT
#328
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote:
I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo.


MVP was dominant in the era of the competition being worse, which leads us to the conclusion he would have done well even with good competition, especially considering he was so hampered by injury.
rotta
Profile Joined December 2011
5586 Posts
May 01 2015 15:00 GMT
#329
On May 01 2015 23:24 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote:
I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo.


MVP was dominant in the era of the competition being worse, which leads us to the conclusion he would have done well even with good competition, especially considering he was so hampered by injury.

Yes, because monthly GSL with mostly WC3 players is totally the same. :p
don't wall off against random
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3748 Posts
May 01 2015 15:38 GMT
#330
On May 02 2015 00:00 rotta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2015 23:24 Doodsmack wrote:
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote:
I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo.


MVP was dominant in the era of the competition being worse, which leads us to the conclusion he would have done well even with good competition, especially considering he was so hampered by injury.

Yes, because monthly GSL with mostly WC3 players is totally the same. :p

If you look into foreign scene, WC3 players well a lot better than BW players.
Dreamer.T
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3584 Posts
May 01 2015 16:20 GMT
#331
On May 01 2015 15:49 lichter wrote:
we're considering releasing mini-write ups for the players who are close to breaking into the top 15 (and maybe what they have to do to get in and where they'd land) if there is enough interest for it


Please do, and do a top foreigner one too.
Forever the best, IMMvp <3
Ja.Y.
Profile Joined February 2015
United States253 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-01 17:57:48
May 01 2015 17:52 GMT
#332
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote:
I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo.


What dictates competition though? Are you saying that the competition that Mvp faced wouldn't be on par with if those players were around today when the "game has been figured out" more? So, the innovators, the ones who figured the game out for the pros now, who had to watch hours of VODs based on their play and adapt to their styles and work out kinks, are less than what pros are today? You could easily make this argument IF Life was dominant first and fell off while Mvp began his rise when Life began. Would your argument change then? Saying that Mvp is better than life because he's playing NOW and not when Life was playing?

It's hard to say that competition when Mvp was dominant is less than the competition than what Life faces today. There's too many factors that play into this. MMA, Nestea, Squirtle, MC, MKP, Leenock, HerO are all less of players than Innovation, herO, Zest, Dark, Dream, Bbyong, Stats? If you matched their primes with the primes of the players now, I would strongly argue that the "lesser, older" pros would beat the "newer, more able" pros.

Winning a GSL or title isn't everything. Mvp was innovative and created strategies that players use and have adapted today.
MMA will reign supreme once again // MaSa is gawd
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8304 Posts
May 01 2015 19:31 GMT
#333
On April 30 2015 06:30 Xrero wrote:
If Mvp transitioned late into SC2, he wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as Life. There are much more talented players currently. Mvp played in an era where MKP and Nestea consistently made GSL finals...
He was smart and skilled for the time though.



He did play in an era where mkp and nestea made GSL finals. He also played in an era where MMA and DRG made GSL finals, and an era where squirtle made finals, and life. He fought through GomTvT and the broodlord infester era, four gates and three base turtles. To only look at the first 6 months of his career is blinding yourself to why he's #1 here. Still, I could see either him or life on top of The GOAT list when all is said and done.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8304 Posts
May 01 2015 19:33 GMT
#334
On May 01 2015 21:02 Rocket-Bear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2015 20:58 rotta wrote:
On May 01 2015 18:46 Eliezar wrote:
The greatest nonKorean's of all time would be nice too.

4. Snute
3. Jinro
2. Naniwa
1. Stephano

Who else is there?

IdrA Thorzain HuK Sen Nerchio

And even though Scarlett never won something big she should probably still make the list


Totally, 6-1ing Polt at that Red Bull battlegrounds was inspiring.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8304 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-01 19:36:24
May 01 2015 19:34 GMT
#335
On May 02 2015 04:33 TheDougler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2015 21:02 Rocket-Bear wrote:
On May 01 2015 20:58 rotta wrote:
On May 01 2015 18:46 Eliezar wrote:
The greatest nonKorean's of all time would be nice too.

4. Snute
3. Jinro
2. Naniwa
1. Stephano

Who else is there?

IdrA Thorzain HuK Sen Nerchio

And even though Scarlett never won something big she should probably still make the list


Totally, 6-1ing Polt at that Red Bull battlegrounds was inspiring.


Edit: damn iPhone, accidentally double posted. Can I delete this? I forget how.

Damn that's awkward.

Anyway, I'd also say that rounding out that list are Dimaga, White-Ra and Mana. It's mostly old history there, but it's not like their achievements never happened.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
May 01 2015 21:18 GMT
#336
Mvp greatest of all time simply because he's the guy that truly made me love SC2. Mvp vs Squirtle is the best GSL final there's ever been.
s200200300
Profile Joined June 2012
8 Posts
May 01 2015 22:33 GMT
#337
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote:
I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo.


This argument is like claiming I am smarter than Newton/ Einstein because I would know more than him due to the modern education is way more advance than their days.

Knowledge wise that might be true - we might all know more stuff than Einstein. But few would agree that I am smarter/greater than Einstein.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
May 01 2015 22:53 GMT
#338
On May 02 2015 07:33 s200200300 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote:
I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo.


This argument is like claiming I am smarter than Newton/ Einstein because I would know more than him due to the modern education is way more advance than their days.

Knowledge wise that might be true - we might all know more stuff than Einstein. But few would agree that I am smarter/greater than Einstein.


Even fewer still would agree that you would innovate as much as Einstein Innovated.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Koektrommel
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands47 Posts
May 01 2015 23:18 GMT
#339
On May 02 2015 07:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2015 07:33 s200200300 wrote:
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote:
I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo.


This argument is like claiming I am smarter than Newton/ Einstein because I would know more than him due to the modern education is way more advance than their days.

Knowledge wise that might be true - we might all know more stuff than Einstein. But few would agree that I am smarter/greater than Einstein.


Even fewer still would agree that you would innovate as much as Einstein Innovated.


We all know Einstein was just a patchphysicist.
LeviathanDK
Profile Joined August 2011
Denmark87 Posts
May 02 2015 06:08 GMT
#340
Read every single letter of the true King, deserved first place
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