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Rocket-Bear
3070 Posts
On May 01 2015 20:58 rotta wrote: 4. Snute 3. Jinro 2. Naniwa 1. Stephano Who else is there? IdrA Thorzain HuK Sen Nerchio And even though Scarlett never won something big she should probably still make the list | ||
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InExcelsis
United States38 Posts
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7795 Posts
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote: I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo. I think it's arguably as impressive that Mvp was so consistently dominant when nobody really knew what they were doing. One new discovery and Mvp could have been irrelevant, kinda like Jinro sadly became. But nope, Mvp dominated always. | ||
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Mikku
Czech Republic58 Posts
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nimdil
Poland3747 Posts
On May 01 2015 21:02 Rocket-Bear wrote: IdrA Thorzain HuK Sen Nerchio And even though Scarlett never won something big she should probably still make the list Also MaNa, Sen, perhaps White-Ra and Ret. Top 10 would be s.t. like Stephano HuK NaNiwa Jinro MaNa IdrA ThorZaIN Nerchio Sen Snute | ||
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Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote: I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo. MVP was dominant in the era of the competition being worse, which leads us to the conclusion he would have done well even with good competition, especially considering he was so hampered by injury. | ||
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rotta
5562 Posts
On May 01 2015 23:24 Doodsmack wrote: MVP was dominant in the era of the competition being worse, which leads us to the conclusion he would have done well even with good competition, especially considering he was so hampered by injury. Yes, because monthly GSL with mostly WC3 players is totally the same. :p | ||
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nimdil
Poland3747 Posts
On May 02 2015 00:00 rotta wrote: Yes, because monthly GSL with mostly WC3 players is totally the same. :p If you look into foreign scene, WC3 players well a lot better than BW players. | ||
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Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
On May 01 2015 15:49 lichter wrote: we're considering releasing mini-write ups for the players who are close to breaking into the top 15 (and maybe what they have to do to get in and where they'd land) if there is enough interest for it Please do, and do a top foreigner one too. | ||
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Ja.Y.
United States253 Posts
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote: I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo. What dictates competition though? Are you saying that the competition that Mvp faced wouldn't be on par with if those players were around today when the "game has been figured out" more? So, the innovators, the ones who figured the game out for the pros now, who had to watch hours of VODs based on their play and adapt to their styles and work out kinks, are less than what pros are today? You could easily make this argument IF Life was dominant first and fell off while Mvp began his rise when Life began. Would your argument change then? Saying that Mvp is better than life because he's playing NOW and not when Life was playing? It's hard to say that competition when Mvp was dominant is less than the competition than what Life faces today. There's too many factors that play into this. MMA, Nestea, Squirtle, MC, MKP, Leenock, HerO are all less of players than Innovation, herO, Zest, Dark, Dream, Bbyong, Stats? If you matched their primes with the primes of the players now, I would strongly argue that the "lesser, older" pros would beat the "newer, more able" pros. Winning a GSL or title isn't everything. Mvp was innovative and created strategies that players use and have adapted today. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8302 Posts
On April 30 2015 06:30 Xrero wrote: If Mvp transitioned late into SC2, he wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as Life. There are much more talented players currently. Mvp played in an era where MKP and Nestea consistently made GSL finals... He was smart and skilled for the time though. He did play in an era where mkp and nestea made GSL finals. He also played in an era where MMA and DRG made GSL finals, and an era where squirtle made finals, and life. He fought through GomTvT and the broodlord infester era, four gates and three base turtles. To only look at the first 6 months of his career is blinding yourself to why he's #1 here. Still, I could see either him or life on top of The GOAT list when all is said and done. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8302 Posts
On May 01 2015 21:02 Rocket-Bear wrote: IdrA Thorzain HuK Sen Nerchio And even though Scarlett never won something big she should probably still make the list Totally, 6-1ing Polt at that Red Bull battlegrounds was inspiring. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8302 Posts
On May 02 2015 04:33 TheDougler wrote: Totally, 6-1ing Polt at that Red Bull battlegrounds was inspiring. Edit: damn iPhone, accidentally double posted. Can I delete this? I forget how. Damn that's awkward. Anyway, I'd also say that rounding out that list are Dimaga, White-Ra and Mana. It's mostly old history there, but it's not like their achievements never happened. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
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s200200300
8 Posts
On May 01 2015 21:03 InExcelsis wrote: I'm sorry I will always respect MVP but people are way to caught up in the past and start of the SC2 era MVP won half his titles while players were still trying to figure the game out and master it's meta while Life has almost always been playing AND WINNING in a time where the competition knows the game inside and out just as much as he does while for a time when MVP was winning it almost seemed like he just knew the game better than everyone else Life has been just as consistent as MVP but in a time where SC2 is much more competitive than a large part of when MVP was dominant which means a lot to me. Nobody can really argue against 4 GSL's I understand but you still have to consider the era in which each of these players won and how well the competition knew the game and meta and its very obvious the competition was much easier early on than in the later years of SC2 which I feel needs to be taken into account more. Simply put I give more credit for a 2013+ GSL than I do for a 2009-2011 GSL where nobody knew game nearly as well as they do today. Life has played AND BEATEN a higher level of competition just as consistently as MVP did early on which is why he should be #1 imo. This argument is like claiming I am smarter than Newton/ Einstein because I would know more than him due to the modern education is way more advance than their days. Knowledge wise that might be true - we might all know more stuff than Einstein. But few would agree that I am smarter/greater than Einstein. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 02 2015 07:33 s200200300 wrote: This argument is like claiming I am smarter than Newton/ Einstein because I would know more than him due to the modern education is way more advance than their days. Knowledge wise that might be true - we might all know more stuff than Einstein. But few would agree that I am smarter/greater than Einstein. Even fewer still would agree that you would innovate as much as Einstein Innovated. | ||
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Koektrommel
Netherlands47 Posts
On May 02 2015 07:53 Thieving Magpie wrote: Even fewer still would agree that you would innovate as much as Einstein Innovated. We all know Einstein was just a patchphysicist. | ||
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LeviathanDK
Denmark87 Posts
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