EPTLadder Update 4/27/2015 - Page 3
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On April 28 2015 15:47 MaestroMaus wrote: Edit; Sorry I realize now that you meant it as a hypothetical example. That said; it's still hard with the division system to know. I mean; whats top 20% translate to? GM through top gold? GM through top plat? No one can tell for sure where the line is right now. Only Blizzard can. This happens almost every time they change something drastic like this. The leagues will flex a bit and they'll adjust the boundries. Say ML used to be 2000mmr to get in. With people being promoted instantly at 2k it'll expand to 5%. Blizzard will adjust the boundry to 2200 the following season and we'll only see 2% again... EDIT: I also agree on the "removing leagues" and just displaying MMR like DotA. The other option would be to take the CSGO route and increase the number of leagues. | ||
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JulDraGoN
Sweden370 Posts
With more promotions / demotions and and MMR that swings more wildly. I don't care much for the rating within the league as you can't really compare it to other players rating. The most frustrating point for me is when I feel like I'm stuck. I much rather see how far off I am from the league above and league below. | ||
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
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korona
1098 Posts
On April 28 2015 16:50 JulDraGoN wrote: I always wanted a harsher system. With more promotions / demotions and and MMR that swings more wildly. I don't care much for the rating within the league as you can't really compare it to other players rating. The most frustrating point for me is when I feel like I'm stuck. I much rather see how far off I am from the league above and league below. But when the dust settles after a bit chaotic start, the MMRs should reflect the skill levels better. And this leads to better matchmaking. The leagues are just badges, the boundaries can be adjusted if the initial offsets / thresholds turn out to be too low. Also worth to remember that after the MMR change rate of the accounts stabilizes the MMR changes will be slow just like before. Thus the leagues cannot be too wide either (e.g. diamond league was too wide for a long time as it in practice usually took 40+ win more than loses just to get from the bottom of diamond to the bottom of master).. | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On April 28 2015 13:35 Cyro wrote: Previously we could say "I'm in diamond league, so i'm approximately in the top 20%" now, 6 weeks into the season, 30% of the ladder might have diamond and it's really not clear at all where you stand. For example, blizzard have said they will give LOTV beta to top 20% of the ladder - you have no way of knowing if you're included or not. The top 20% invites are based on your Season 1 performance click me  | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On April 28 2015 16:10 OtherWorld wrote: Remove leagues (except maybe GM), give visible MMR. Spend the resources spent on league adjustments and all that shit on more useful things. Problems resolved. well i doubt they'll ever do that after 5 years of league bullshit. Even lol switched from a rating to a division based system... and get rid of bonus pool too. | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On April 28 2015 17:50 sAsImre wrote: well i doubt they'll ever do that after 5 years of league bullshit. Even lol switched from a rating to a division based system... and get rid of bonus pool too. It wouldn't be so bad if they had some more divisions. Having just 5 (excluding GM) means that being at the top of your division or bottom is a big difference. Further, removing in-season demotions means you never know if the displayed league is even accurate. (Especially with the change to promotions) It's quite possible to play someone in a league above without your MMR being close to promotion - if their MMR has dropped significantly since their promotion. | ||
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LordOfDabu
United States392 Posts
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Paukum
Norway60 Posts
Even though the badge doesn't "really" mean anything, there is a joy in suddenly getting promoted, even if it's a childish joy. I for one also find it encouraging to get closer to the top of my division, even if it doesn't indicate actual mmr. For people in higher leagues I can understand that they would prefer to see their actual mmr ranking. What I don't find encouraging is being stuck in gold since the beginning of hots after being plat for several seasons before that, so I look forward to see how these changes will affect my progress (haven't had time to play much since the season started). | ||
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Striker.superfreunde
Germany1119 Posts
 As you mentioned mmr requirment, i`ve a bit of a awkward question. How much has the mmr requirement (e.g for gold league) changed during WoL 2010 till today? Or any other given points in time to get a rough estimation. If it has changed at all. Thanks for working on and caring about the ladder | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On April 28 2015 19:13 Paukum wrote: I really like the idea of having more leagues. Would be cool if "wood league" actually came into being, instead of being just an insult. Even though the badge doesn't "really" mean anything, there is a joy in suddenly getting promoted, even if it's a childish joy. I for one also find it encouraging to get closer to the top of my division, even if it doesn't indicate actual mmr. For people in higher leagues I can understand that they would prefer to see their actual mmr ranking. What I don't find encouraging is being stuck in gold since the beginning of hots after being plat for several seasons before that, so I look forward to see how these changes will affect my progress (haven't had time to play much since the season started). But wood league was actually between diamond and master :D You'd actually be good, but not that good. Copper would be below bronze and maybe iron below it.... I've also always felt it was dumb how many 1 game accounts you'd see in any given division. Maybe think that they should reconsider the placement match amount. Something like 5 for returning players and 10 for new/mmr reset players. | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
On April 28 2015 17:35 tar wrote: The top 20% invites are based on your Season 1 performance click me But what does the top 20% mean? Interesting dilemma: a) diamond, master, gm - These leagues are the top 20% based on Blizzards official communication. In this option MMR would not affect eligibility (e.g. if you were in master and tanked your MMR to silver level you would still get access) b) based only on MMR - Top 20% for many servers would likely include most platinum range and all higher leagues. In this model the league badge would mean nothing. If you were in master league and you tanked your MMR e.g. to silver range you would not get access c) based on MMR but some activity filtering - For example some requirement regarding maximum unused bonus pool d) top 20 of each ladder division on every league. The MMR itself would not be a factor - just that you have been active enough to reach top 20 of your division (usually you get to top 20 just by spending your bonus pool). Blizzard's German customer support speculated on Twitter that this would be their approach. e) some other way to define 'top 20%' But in some days we likely know more as Blizzard was aiming to start giving beta accesses later this week. More discussion regarding this dilemma can be found from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/483822-top-20-invites | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
The language they used is still too vague. You can tell it's basically the stat guy explaining to the community manager what the changes were and they had to awkwardly translate it for the general population. It's not like the community folks are going to answer any technical questions about the ladder anyway. That and 99%+ of ladder doesn't actually care about the details. They just want to know if the ladder "works". | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20282 Posts
This happens almost every time they change something drastic like this. The leagues will flex a bit and they'll adjust the boundries. Say ML used to be 2000mmr to get in. With people being promoted instantly at 2k it'll expand to 5%. Blizzard will adjust the boundry to 2200 the following season and we'll only see 2% again... There's no boundary that they can adjust. They're letting people IN but not OUT - there are only two possible outcomes 1; promotions into the league are too hard or even impossible 2; big inflation of league population % on the higher leagues as we get weeks deeper into the season Sorry I realize now that you meant it as a hypothetical example. That said; it's still hard with the division system to know. I mean; whats top 20% translate to? GM through top gold? GM through top plat? No one can tell for sure where the line is right now. Only Blizzard can. Previously (and i'm talking like WOL here, maybe early HOTS) the leagues were rooted to %'s much more solidly. The MMR numbers were about right, you were not promoted until you were solidly in the next league (or demoted unless you were solidly in the one below) and the league percentages stayed quite steady throughout the season. With these changes they're guaranteeing drastic inflation in masters and diamond. | ||
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Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
On April 28 2015 22:33 Cyro wrote: There's no boundary that they can adjust. They're letting people IN but not OUT - there are only two possible outcomes 1; promotions into the league are too hard or even impossible 2; big inflation of league population % on the higher leagues as we get weeks deeper into the season That has been the case since they removed demotion (?june 2013?). Statistically, the % of players in masters would get to 100% if everyone played an infinite amount of games. I don't think the threshold removal will have such an impact. To my understanding, they only promoted when MMR got to ("lower_bound" + "threshold"), where "threshold" is the estimated standard variability of a player's MMR for a fixed skill. Removing the threshold only means that players at ("lower_bound" - "threshold") will get promoted at the highest of their standard variability. This is something that can easily enough be managed by redefining the bounds themselves. The overlap between leagues remains approximately the same, but it is between ("lower_bound" - 2*"threshold") and "lower_bound" instead of ("lower_bound" - "threshold") and ("lower_bound" + "threshold") | ||
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wUndertUnge
United States1125 Posts
I really hope they find a way to make the ladder more meaningful and integral to the community experience with LOTV. | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
On April 29 2015 02:03 wUndertUnge wrote: Just a quick report: I'm back in mid-dish Diamond, which is where I was before I stopped playing months ago. I'm at 40 games with a 50% winrate. The strange thing is I got promoted after 4 losses in a row to plats, but one win against a diamond. It's super wonky. I really hope they find a way to make the ladder more meaningful and integral to the community experience with LOTV. That promotion likely happened around 25th to 30th match? The system promotes after 25th match to your actual league if you already have not been promoted (if player was in calibration phase == 5 placements). It does not promote after lost games - only after wins. | ||
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Striker.superfreunde
Germany1119 Posts
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