EPTMVP's Statement on MarineKing - Page 3
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
On April 21 2015 07:58 ZenithM wrote: UNLESS you don't trust MVP either and think they're either covering matchfixing or actively participating in it. In this case, well, they could have said anything really, you wouldn't have believed it either :D Not at all. Like I wrote on the first page: The statement would be at least a bit more believable if it had answers to questions like "why did you not use the reapers" "why did you go 3cc against no natural" "why did you stare you CC that was building scvs for 5 minutes". They asked MK about it, so why can't they just share the answers? I'll be happy to listen even if I have my doubts at this moment. Saying "he didn't do it", means absolutely nothing. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: So I'd like to ask the thread exactly what they expected out of TL. The burden of proof is on the accuser. It is not up to MVP to do the impossible, that being to prove a negative. It is up to everyone else to prove Marineking was involved in matchfixing. Thus far all they have to go on is Pinnacle suspending betting on that match, which is not an awful lot to go on. Suspicious betting activity does not in fact mean that there was any wrongdoing. I'm honestly a little surprised at some peoples willingness to just say "yup, he obviously did it and this statement doesnt convince me otherwise". Tell me, exactly what would convince you? How exactly could they convince you? They can't, they have no means to, you can't prove conclusively a negative. Ya, this is about all MVP could ever say. This is just gonna stalemate again like it has before. Nothing MVP can do to convince people MK didn't fix, but that's only due to the fact that it's fairly blatant he did and I can fully understand people's huge disappointment in that this basically amounts to nothing out of them. | ||
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm honestly a little surprised at some peoples willingness to just say "yup, he obviously did it and this statement doesnt convince me otherwise". Tell me, exactly what would convince you? How exactly could they convince you? They can't, they have no means to, you can't prove conclusively a negative. Really TB? The statement would be at least a bit more believable if it had answers to questions like "why did you not use the reapers" "why did you go 3cc against no natural" "why did you stare you CC that was building scvs for 5 minutes". | ||
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Mallidon
Scotland557 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: So I'd like to ask the thread exactly what they expected out of TL. The burden of proof is on the accuser. It is not up to MVP to do the impossible, that being to prove a negative. It is up to everyone else to prove Marineking was involved in matchfixing. Thus far all they have to go on is Pinnacle suspending betting on that match, which is not an awful lot to go on. Suspicious betting activity does not in fact mean that there was any wrongdoing. I'm honestly a little surprised at some peoples willingness to just say "yup, he obviously did it and this statement doesnt convince me otherwise". Tell me, exactly what would convince you? How exactly could they convince you? They can't, they have no means to, you can't prove conclusively a negative. Omfg, I actually find myself agreeing with TB on something. All of this... Now I'm off for a stiff drink! | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6168 Posts
On April 21 2015 07:39 Pontius Pirate wrote: 100% agree with that. It would be disastrous if it were proven true, but that's better than if more strong evidence arose and they stubbornly sat on the replay in denial. The replay still wouldn't prove anything - especially in a player as famous for losing to things he should damn well have known were coming as he is for holding against a flood of banelings with two marines and a prayer. The betting line may be algorithmically suspicious, causing it to be cancelled. But all of the reasoning and thought behind using it as proof of rigged betting rests on humans being rational. And if you recall MKP's big hot pink glasses, you can clearly see that people do not behave rationally. (In eSports even less so.) Anyways, good to see them say something about it, even if it won't convince anyone of anything and most everyone already have their opinion. The only thing it could prove is that yes, it happened, which isn't what they say. There is no way of providing any kind of proof that no, it didn't happen.Unless we can find a telepath with integrity or a 100% accurate lie detector. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:04 Jarree wrote: Not at all. Like I wrote on the first page: They asked MK about it, so why can't they just share the answers? I'll be happy to listen even if I have my doubts at this moment. Saying "he didn't do it", means absolutely nothing. I'm not sure what is the point of asking a progamer about every single mistake and bad decision he likely made for no reason. Especially if you've watched MarineKing a bit, even his wins are sometimes not rational. Show me some replays where you yourself lost, I'm sure you won't have answers for why you made half your bad moves. Progamers are no different. Sometimes it's just "I felt like this could work, well, it didn't  ". Only in the tiny world of the TL Strategy Staff team are people perfect players. | ||
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Penev
28530 Posts
On April 21 2015 07:19 Dodgin wrote: It's nice that we got a statement but frankly I'm not convinced. Same, a bit too much coincidences including the suspicious line movements MVP (and some naysayers) seem to forget about. That said, if MVP did what they've released in this statement than they probably did all they could do. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:08 ZenithM wrote: I'm not sure what is the point of asking a progamer about every single mistake and bad decision he likely made for no reason. Especially if you've watched MarineKing a bit, even his wins are sometimes not rational. Sure. However, this time every progamer (that I've seen mention it) who had the balls to talk about it publicly said those mistakes are beyond - or close to - reasonable doubt. None of those decisions make any sense. It's like Naniwa probe a-move rush against Nestea, not just at the same level. They asked Naniwa why he did it, he didn't care about the match. Boom answered. | ||
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
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StarGalaxy
Germany744 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: So I'd like to ask the thread exactly what they expected out of TL. The burden of proof is on the accuser. It is not up to MVP to do the impossible, that being to prove a negative. It is up to everyone else to prove Marineking was involved in matchfixing. Thus far all they have to go on is Pinnacle suspending betting on that match, which is not an awful lot to go on. Suspicious betting activity does not in fact mean that there was any wrongdoing. I'm honestly a little surprised at some peoples willingness to just say "yup, he obviously did it and this statement doesnt convince me otherwise". Tell me, exactly what would convince you? How exactly could they convince you? They can't, they have no means to, you can't prove conclusively a negative. I expected MVP to at least publish the replay. I want to see for myself what was in his vision. This was matchfixing as blantly as it gets and it was not the only case. I am not saying judge him on the evidence we have at the moment because it obviously wouldn't be enough in court. It's enough to start a investigation however. Get through his bank account, check money coming in etc. I wonder how people can think that marineking is innocent. How can betting odds like this happen? I understand that not everyone understands the math behind it, but if you don't, you should listen to the experts. Odds like that don't just happen on accident. There was no Nigerian prince that bet 100k Dollar on marinking losing under ridicuouls probabilities. There is simply no other explenation than that someone fixed that game. And in this case it's really not looking good for marinking. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
None of what you just said answered my point. MVP cannot prove a negative, the burden of proof is on the accuser. We don't flip around the foundation of justice just because people on a forum got mad about something. I expected MVP to at least publish the replay. Which KeSPA and SPOTV does not allow them to do, so that's never going to happen. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:14 Circumstance wrote: Quick reminder that TB has personally had to do EXACTLY what MVP did here - question one of his own players due to allegations of intentionally losing games and release a statement explaining it. I'll take his word on the matter as trustworthy. TB doesn't know anything more than we do about this, it's just his own opinion. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:15 Dodgin wrote: TB doesn't know anything more than we do about this, it's just his own opinion. The difference being I do know about the burden of proof which some people on this forum seem to have not been taught. | ||
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:15 Dodgin wrote: TB doesn't know anything more than we do about this, it's just his own opinion. It's a better-informed opinion than anything anyone else on this forum can offer by a factor of several thousand. | ||
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StarGalaxy
Germany744 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:16 TotalBiscuit wrote: The difference being I do know about the burden of proof which some people on this forum seem to have not been taught. So what would be proof enough for you that you say he is matchfixing? | ||
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Weavel
Finland9223 Posts
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
GG no re. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:16 Circumstance wrote: It's a better-informed opinion than anything anyone else on this forum can offer by a factor of several thousand. I'll take the opinions of high level players that spoke out about the mistakes mkp made being indicative of match fixing, and the opinions of rekrul on match fixing being rampant in korea sc2. I respect TB and his opinion but it doesn't mean he's the most qualified to speak on this matter. | ||
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