EPTHotS Balance Update - April 9 - Page 14
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gDPhantom
New Zealand162 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10700 Posts
I´m afraid that this is gonna be even worse than the dreaded "queen patch".. I'm afraid that you really are just unsure of what you are talking about... The "Queen Patch" was much needed, remember SlayerS killing everyone with hellions? ... | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On April 12 2015 17:14 GGzerG wrote: I'm afraid that you really are just unsure of what you are talking about... The "Queen Patch" was much needed, remember SlayerS killing everyone with hellions? ... Ask any terran and they will tell you how it brought about the bl/infestor time. I agree that it was needed against the hellions. I don't think this patch was a good idea. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 12 2015 17:14 GGzerG wrote: I'm afraid that you really are just unsure of what you are talking about... The "Queen Patch" was much needed, remember SlayerS killing everyone with hellions? ... That style was figured out months before the queen patch. The queen patch was great because it removed the coinflip nature from TvZ, where Terran could just throw out random two base builds while you were still guessing wether he was going 3CC, Mech or Bio or whatever he wanted. Remember that the queen patch also introduced the faster overlords that were needed so that a good Terran couldn't snipe your first overlord or at least force you to drive it to a useless space and that you could at least get a somewhat decent scout off. But similar to this patch, it should have been done right after release or even in the beta of the game. Zergs were complaining from 2010-2012 that they didn't have the same good early game defensive tools as the other races and that was exactly what the queen patch provided - after the game had already been balanced around coinflip strategies in the early game. This also goes for the swarm host patch now. They should have scrapped the swarm host long ago and then balanced the game around its nonexistance/mediocrity. They still have the chance to repair the situation now, but I'm very doubtful that they are going to patch as heavily as needed with LotV on the doorsteps. At best they are going to repair the swarm host until it is a shitty but useful tool again and then the whole patching process will be moot. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On April 12 2015 13:55 gDPhantom wrote: What was the reasoning behind the tempest nerf? it has mucked up PvP. I guess it was intended to make brood more viable after the SH change The reason why broodlords suck against tempest is not because of the tempest's bonus against massive. It's because tempests have a much higher range and broordlords are really slow, expensive and targetable. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 12 2015 19:39 KingAlphard wrote: The reason why broodlords suck against tempest is not because of the tempest's bonus against massive. It's because tempests have a much higher range and broordlords are really slow, expensive and targetable. You need a ton of Tempests to stop broodlords without bonus damage or your ground army will be wiped out in seconds. You can't do the blind Colossus/Stalker/Templar "woooooops, I didn't scout at all and now he has a greater spire, quick chronoboost 3 Tempests to hardcounter his 10 much more expensive Broodlords." You're gonna get destroyed cutting stalkers and trying or you are going to get destroyed by 20 Broodlords if you are trying to get by without air. At least that's my theorycraft on it, by far not enough experience with it up to now. | ||
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ETisME
12700 Posts
I think broodlords will still be ineffective, protoss has so much time to prepare and have lots of ways to buy time. | ||
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Lunchador
United States776 Posts
This is a ladder team game with my friends where I personally witness their new "prowess". Granted, in hindsight there actually are better ways to control them as I learn toward the end... I'm still full of regrets. But I hope this entertains you! | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
But in HOTS? Not so much... | ||
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ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
On April 10 2015 15:28 opisska wrote: Oh God, sorry, I dare to have an opinion that is not approved by the Council of Great Minds of TL, so there is no hope for me! Yes, I "play" Zerg, but I am a lousy player, I play mostly 2v2 for fun here and there and I very rarely ever built SHs, because they are so fucking difficult to use correctly! (Surprising, heh? You probably heard a tousand times how they are noob simple easytowin unit and thus think it's true because that's what you sheeps do.) But you apparently know me better then I do, so this is all just made up! You know what I do a lot? I watch the fucking game! And I happened to love watching long complex SH games in particular. Yes, they are not "dynamic" enough, because they take more time than taking a shit and that's about how long the average "sc2 fan" is able to keep his eyes open between his weed and his booze apparently. But they are awesome, it's like a TV series when people gradually come up with ways to combat the SH and have to actually make difficult decisions. The super-late-game with bases mined out, where there are no build orders, no thousand-times-practices situations and just split decisions and difficult questions, that's the most intruiging part of the whole thing. Not clicking fanatically to do the same rush for the milionth time - THAT's boring. And now we have the most interesitng part of the game taken away and every idiot celebrates. What a day to be alive! Honestly, I agree with everything you've said in your posts. I don't know why I quoted this one, but I just wanted to tell you that I back what you've been saying. I really do hate the community that this game has developed. Also, you'll notice that the SC2 castors LOVE the long as shit games. Just thought I'd throw that out there. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On April 12 2015 23:23 Lunchador wrote: The new swarm host is ah, um... underwhelming? Fills you with regret for making them now? Makes you question the meaning of life? I thought their new functionality seemed pretty cool on paper, but it's really, really hard to justify their cost vs what they are capable of, especially when an attack is inbound and your locusts are on cooldown. Worst feeling ever. This is a ladder team game with my friends where I personally witness their new "prowess". Granted, in hindsight there actually are better ways to control them as I learn toward the end... I'm still full of regrets. But I hope this entertains you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43_7-R52vOI there not as bad as you might think. You just need to baby sit them more. Of course they are going to get crushed if you send 10 swarm host worth of locust at an entire army. I dont understand what you expect them to do. Near the end you did use them correctly and broke the mini siege tank line. They are just tactical now instead of "lemme build swarm host then I can macro for 5 minutes until the enemy can mount some sort of counter | ||
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kiLen
Finland97 Posts
On April 13 2015 16:35 SuperYo1000 wrote: there not as bad as you might think. You just need to baby sit them more. Of course they are going to get crushed if you send 10 swarm host worth of locust at an entire army. I dont understand what you expect them to do. Near the end you did use them correctly and broke the mini siege tank line. They are just tactical now instead of "lemme build swarm host then I can macro for 5 minutes until the enemy can mount some sort of counter And how do you expect zergs to justify using 2000 gas for harass units? You should replace the word tactical with horrible vs everything that does not contain anti air or aoe damage. In the current state of the game where zerg needed to use swarm hosts as a tool which allowed them to actually play longer games without going into 4 base broodlord all ins or 3 base roach hydra all ins. The 100/200 and 4 supply for the new swarm hosts is not going to help much versus a turtling mech army or skytoss with templars. Maybe if they decrease cost to 100/175-150 and supply to 3 it might be a viable unit to use for harassment but as it stands should zerg really dedicate that much gas and supply for harassment ONCE EVERY MINUTE? | ||
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eCakes
Australia32 Posts
edit: for the record I welcome the change, I'm over swarm hosts and not fussed on the change or not. Just sick of using mutas in everything | ||
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sibs
635 Posts
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polpot
3002 Posts
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On April 13 2015 20:12 sibs wrote: Protoss is going to dominate GSL/SSL so hard, maybe Maru can do something well see. How did this patch effect PvT?? How often does PDD come to play?? It´s still great when the attack happen. | ||
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KOtical
Germany451 Posts
On April 13 2015 21:18 RaFox17 wrote: How did this patch effect PvT?? How often does PDD come to play?? It´s still great when the attack happen. this patch doesnt effect any PvT. But TvZ and PvZ, so if zergs dyin ZvT and PvZ, we will likely see more TvP... so it does affect tournaments... | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
Its funny(read disheartening) though how everyone was so invested into hating on the bandaid-solution (Swarmhosts) Instead of the cause (Insane, unbreakable deathballs. Zergs horrible anti-air and late-midgame cost efficiency vs P and mech. the failure that is the design of Protoss with the forcefields, hardcounters and deathballs as well as basically useless gateway units and last but not least, warpgate tech)... But hey at least some of these things will be adressed in LotV. Now that Swarm hosts are gone, I dont see any reason as to why every single T shouldnt play TvZ like Happy does it (only better and less throwing) since its almost a "free win" once you establish your mech army on 4 bases. Nor do I see any reason for Protoss not to play every game out like CJ herO would. I understand how incredibly salty I come off as, but its hard to be sunshine and lollipops when your race just took a giant dump to the face. Disclaimer: I dislike stale lategames as much as the next guy but removing the only way zerg can deal with a proper turtle mech or proper turtleprotoss is not the right way to deal with this issue. Edit: am I a guardian or a lurker now? | ||
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ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
On April 13 2015 17:16 eCakes wrote: I think a good compromise would be to give Neural Parasite a buff back to it's former effectiveness. Make the range longer again and make it either cheaper or cast-able from burrow. I always had fun using it back when it was actually worthwhile... edit: for the record I welcome the change, I'm over swarm hosts and not fussed on the change or not. Just sick of using mutas in everything I believe they are changing neural parasite in LOTV, but I know that's not what you're looking for...:-( | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On April 12 2015 00:22 sharkie wrote: zerg never had anything against storm... look at BW lol zerg had imba defilers. cannot compare (don't think you can say vipers count as was awkward to build protoss units with feedback into standard army comp back then (dark archon only?)) although this change may suck for zergs right now, i think it's important for the future of sc2 to patch the mass-swarmhost styles out of existence then re-balance other zerg units around what is left. (although I am biased as it was the mass-swarmhost styles that caused me to take a several month break from this game) | ||
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