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the old swarmhost was the way to not die with deathball protoss and terran mech, not even win the game, just hold position looking for chance to win, if bilzzard not want 1 hour games, the problem is not zerg, the problem is the protoss and terran turtling the game to get the point that zerg is forced to use SH to not lose, in LOTV where the games are more fast this change could work, but in HOTS is awful. And doesnt change so much the zvt, if before was tanks against SH, now gona be thors against SH, and with the buff of thors against air the flying locust gona die more fast than before. Some said that is easy to destroy comand center or nexus, but is not valuable invest a lot of min and gas to just kill a nexus, and counting that after the locust die, u have a suply dead for a long time for the long respawn locust time. At least the duration of locust should be more or the life/def should be better to not invest all that min/gas and supply dead to just kill a nexus, and die so easily to the enemy units.
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On April 10 2015 15:28 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 15:18 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:10 opisska wrote:
"Listening to the community" - hooray!!
Do you idiots understand that this is all YOUR FUCKING FAULT? That Blizzard did this only because you stupid whiny bitches who kept spouting nonsense about SH games being "not entertaining" enough for your useless little brains? Great, so now the game gets adapted to your majestic ADHD 5-minute attention span, because the average "fan" can't handle anything that goes on for more than that.
God, this is so stupid. Anything, really ANYTHING interesting Blizzard comes up with is crushed into the ground by this "
"community" of "experts" with "opinions". Everything that is not exactly the same boring shit again and again is either "inbalanced", "bad design" (lol at "design" in general anyway, it's just a buzzword every idiot nowadays uses to sound smart) or "boring" or "bad for the game".
I can't really imagine Blizzard coming up with anything interesting for LoTV. They have been forced to give up on the only really radical change in HoTS, why would they even try anymore? They will probably just make BW in 3D to make the five people who still care about BW (but produce thousands of posts each) happy and everyone will go play a stupid MOBA or an even more stupid card game anyway.
Everything nice gets destroyed by idiots. Real life has broken into SC2. Fuck you all. LOL someones upset they cant go mass swarmhost anymore. LOL it was boring and bad design and needs to just be removed from the game. Also vipers are really really really good in zvt and zvp try getting more then 2-3 more like 7-9 and figure it out then crying all day i bet you said the same when the infestor got changed come on if you really think that swarmhost was good for the game then theres no hope for you. Oh God, sorry, I dare to have an opinion that is not approved by the Council of Great Minds of TL, so there is no hope for me! Yes, I "play" Zerg, but I am a lousy player, I play mostly 2v2 for fun here and there and I very rarely ever built SHs, because they are so fucking difficult to use correctly! (Surprising, heh? You probably heard a tousand times how they are noob simple easytowin unit and thus think it's true because that's what you sheeps do.) But you apparently know me better then I do, so this is all just made up! You know what I do a lot? I watch the fucking game! And I happened to love watching long complex SH games in particular. Yes, they are not "dynamic" enough, because they take more time than taking a shit and that's about how long the average "sc2 fan" is able to keep his eyes open between his weed and his booze apparently. But they are awesome, it's like a TV series when people gradually come up with ways to combat the SH and have to actually make difficult decisions. The super-late-game with bases mined out, where there are no build orders, no thousand-times-practices situations and just split decisions and difficult questions, that's the most intruiging part of the whole thing. Not clicking fanatically to do the same rush for the milionth time - THAT's boring. And now we have the most interesitng part of the game taken away and every idiot celebrates. What a day to be alive!
You are really over reacting its not that bad im sorry you feel this way but it was a bad unit and should have never been in the game. Also sorry but the unit was easy to use burrow set it and forget it no real micro beside burrow if you found this difficult then I dont know what to tell you man (and i play all three races so please dont say i dont know what im talking about) but again you seem to be very upset and overreacting to this change, like your life just got turned upside down.
Im sorry you feel this way and yea sure there were some complex sh game but if you look at it one play (not the zerg) had to work alot harder ( i know i going to get shit for this) because he's combating wave after wave of free units from basically cross map. If you dont find something wrong with this then again idk what to say. I do agree with the whole super late game split decision is fun to watch but you rarely get there and only because of units like the swarmhost and raven. I think it will be even better now because we wont have mass pdds vs locust waves or locust vs locust or tempest shots vs locust. It will at least IMO will be more dynamic because everyones units will cost something and if they lose even one that could be game ending. But this is all moot because your hell bent on cursing everyone who think this was a great over due change (which is just about everyone).
also going to say it again THE VIPER IS THE ANSWER TO MECH TERRAN not swarmhost the swamhost was just a way to delay enough to take the map and make what ever units needed to kill the terran but again the VIPER IS the Answer, not as good in ZVP,PVZ but I believe its the answer in there aswell pulling units and blinding cloud are stupidly under used.
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On April 11 2015 01:07 starslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 15:28 opisska wrote:On April 10 2015 15:18 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:10 opisska wrote:
"Listening to the community" - hooray!!
Do you idiots understand that this is all YOUR FUCKING FAULT? That Blizzard did this only because you stupid whiny bitches who kept spouting nonsense about SH games being "not entertaining" enough for your useless little brains? Great, so now the game gets adapted to your majestic ADHD 5-minute attention span, because the average "fan" can't handle anything that goes on for more than that.
God, this is so stupid. Anything, really ANYTHING interesting Blizzard comes up with is crushed into the ground by this "
"community" of "experts" with "opinions". Everything that is not exactly the same boring shit again and again is either "inbalanced", "bad design" (lol at "design" in general anyway, it's just a buzzword every idiot nowadays uses to sound smart) or "boring" or "bad for the game".
I can't really imagine Blizzard coming up with anything interesting for LoTV. They have been forced to give up on the only really radical change in HoTS, why would they even try anymore? They will probably just make BW in 3D to make the five people who still care about BW (but produce thousands of posts each) happy and everyone will go play a stupid MOBA or an even more stupid card game anyway.
Everything nice gets destroyed by idiots. Real life has broken into SC2. Fuck you all. LOL someones upset they cant go mass swarmhost anymore. LOL it was boring and bad design and needs to just be removed from the game. Also vipers are really really really good in zvt and zvp try getting more then 2-3 more like 7-9 and figure it out then crying all day i bet you said the same when the infestor got changed come on if you really think that swarmhost was good for the game then theres no hope for you. Oh God, sorry, I dare to have an opinion that is not approved by the Council of Great Minds of TL, so there is no hope for me! Yes, I "play" Zerg, but I am a lousy player, I play mostly 2v2 for fun here and there and I very rarely ever built SHs, because they are so fucking difficult to use correctly! (Surprising, heh? You probably heard a tousand times how they are noob simple easytowin unit and thus think it's true because that's what you sheeps do.) But you apparently know me better then I do, so this is all just made up! You know what I do a lot? I watch the fucking game! And I happened to love watching long complex SH games in particular. Yes, they are not "dynamic" enough, because they take more time than taking a shit and that's about how long the average "sc2 fan" is able to keep his eyes open between his weed and his booze apparently. But they are awesome, it's like a TV series when people gradually come up with ways to combat the SH and have to actually make difficult decisions. The super-late-game with bases mined out, where there are no build orders, no thousand-times-practices situations and just split decisions and difficult questions, that's the most intruiging part of the whole thing. Not clicking fanatically to do the same rush for the milionth time - THAT's boring. And now we have the most interesitng part of the game taken away and every idiot celebrates. What a day to be alive! You are really over reacting its not that bad im sorry you feel this way but it was a bad unit and should have never been in the game. Also sorry but the unit was easy to use burrow set it and forget it no real micro beside burrow if you found this difficult then I dont know what to tell you man (and i play all three races so please dont say i dont know what im talking about) but again you seem to be very upset and overreacting to this change, like your life just got turned upside down. Im sorry you feel this way and yea sure there were some complex sh game but if you look at it one play (not the zerg) had to work alot harder ( i know i going to get shit for this) because he's combating wave after wave of free units from basically cross map. If you dont find something wrong with this then again idk what to say. I do agree with the whole super late game split decision is fun to watch but you rarely get there and only because of units like the swarmhost and raven. I think it will be even better now because we wont have mass pdds vs locust waves or locust vs locust or tempest shots vs locust. It will at least IMO will be more dynamic because everyones units will cost something and if they lose even one that could be game ending. But this is all moot because your hell bent on cursing everyone who think this was a great over due change (which is just about everyone).
The thing is it's not like SH vs mech or SH vs Tempests games happened every single time like BL-Infestor in WoL. Maybe 1 time out of 20 games or something like that, and often people enjoyed watching them, because they were particular, even if not exciting in themselves.
They didn't even produce one sided games most of the times.
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On April 11 2015 01:07 starslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 15:28 opisska wrote:On April 10 2015 15:18 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:10 opisska wrote:
"Listening to the community" - hooray!!
Do you idiots understand that this is all YOUR FUCKING FAULT? That Blizzard did this only because you stupid whiny bitches who kept spouting nonsense about SH games being "not entertaining" enough for your useless little brains? Great, so now the game gets adapted to your majestic ADHD 5-minute attention span, because the average "fan" can't handle anything that goes on for more than that.
God, this is so stupid. Anything, really ANYTHING interesting Blizzard comes up with is crushed into the ground by this "
"community" of "experts" with "opinions". Everything that is not exactly the same boring shit again and again is either "inbalanced", "bad design" (lol at "design" in general anyway, it's just a buzzword every idiot nowadays uses to sound smart) or "boring" or "bad for the game".
I can't really imagine Blizzard coming up with anything interesting for LoTV. They have been forced to give up on the only really radical change in HoTS, why would they even try anymore? They will probably just make BW in 3D to make the five people who still care about BW (but produce thousands of posts each) happy and everyone will go play a stupid MOBA or an even more stupid card game anyway.
Everything nice gets destroyed by idiots. Real life has broken into SC2. Fuck you all. LOL someones upset they cant go mass swarmhost anymore. LOL it was boring and bad design and needs to just be removed from the game. Also vipers are really really really good in zvt and zvp try getting more then 2-3 more like 7-9 and figure it out then crying all day i bet you said the same when the infestor got changed come on if you really think that swarmhost was good for the game then theres no hope for you. Oh God, sorry, I dare to have an opinion that is not approved by the Council of Great Minds of TL, so there is no hope for me! Yes, I "play" Zerg, but I am a lousy player, I play mostly 2v2 for fun here and there and I very rarely ever built SHs, because they are so fucking difficult to use correctly! (Surprising, heh? You probably heard a tousand times how they are noob simple easytowin unit and thus think it's true because that's what you sheeps do.) But you apparently know me better then I do, so this is all just made up! You know what I do a lot? I watch the fucking game! And I happened to love watching long complex SH games in particular. Yes, they are not "dynamic" enough, because they take more time than taking a shit and that's about how long the average "sc2 fan" is able to keep his eyes open between his weed and his booze apparently. But they are awesome, it's like a TV series when people gradually come up with ways to combat the SH and have to actually make difficult decisions. The super-late-game with bases mined out, where there are no build orders, no thousand-times-practices situations and just split decisions and difficult questions, that's the most intruiging part of the whole thing. Not clicking fanatically to do the same rush for the milionth time - THAT's boring. And now we have the most interesitng part of the game taken away and every idiot celebrates. What a day to be alive! You are really over reacting its not that bad im sorry you feel this way but it was a bad unit and should have never been in the game. Also sorry but the unit was easy to use burrow set it and forget it no real micro beside burrow if you found this difficult then I dont know what to tell you man (and i play all three races so please dont say i dont know what im talking about) but again you seem to be very upset and overreacting to this change, like your life just got turned upside down. Im sorry you feel this way and yea sure there were some complex sh game but if you look at it one play (not the zerg) had to work alot harder ( i know i going to get shit for this) because he's combating wave after wave of free units from basically cross map. If you dont find something wrong with this then again idk what to say. I do agree with the whole super late game split decision is fun to watch but you rarely get there and only because of units like the swarmhost and raven. I think it will be even better now because we wont have mass pdds vs locust waves or locust vs locust or tempest shots vs locust. It will at least IMO will be more dynamic because everyones units will cost something and if they lose even one that could be game ending. But this is all moot because your hell bent on cursing everyone who think this was a great over due change (which is just about everyone). also going to say it again THE VIPER IS THE ANSWER TO MECH TERRAN not swarmhost the swamhost was just a way to delay enough to take the map and make what ever units needed to kill the terran but again the VIPER IS the Answer, not as good in ZVP,PVZ but I believe its the answer in there aswell pulling units and blinding cloud are stupidly under used.
The unit exists for 2 years and suddendly it become ANSWER TO MECH TERRAN, why ? vikings are not nerfed ? still hard counter vipers easily and takes the upgrades of the ground. It's underused cause the counter of a Hive 100/200 gaz unit is a 150/75 unit that need less tech, and have free upgrades (and aslo counter broodlords).
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On April 11 2015 01:22 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 01:07 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:28 opisska wrote:On April 10 2015 15:18 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:10 opisska wrote:
"Listening to the community" - hooray!!
Do you idiots understand that this is all YOUR FUCKING FAULT? That Blizzard did this only because you stupid whiny bitches who kept spouting nonsense about SH games being "not entertaining" enough for your useless little brains? Great, so now the game gets adapted to your majestic ADHD 5-minute attention span, because the average "fan" can't handle anything that goes on for more than that.
God, this is so stupid. Anything, really ANYTHING interesting Blizzard comes up with is crushed into the ground by this "
"community" of "experts" with "opinions". Everything that is not exactly the same boring shit again and again is either "inbalanced", "bad design" (lol at "design" in general anyway, it's just a buzzword every idiot nowadays uses to sound smart) or "boring" or "bad for the game".
I can't really imagine Blizzard coming up with anything interesting for LoTV. They have been forced to give up on the only really radical change in HoTS, why would they even try anymore? They will probably just make BW in 3D to make the five people who still care about BW (but produce thousands of posts each) happy and everyone will go play a stupid MOBA or an even more stupid card game anyway.
Everything nice gets destroyed by idiots. Real life has broken into SC2. Fuck you all. LOL someones upset they cant go mass swarmhost anymore. LOL it was boring and bad design and needs to just be removed from the game. Also vipers are really really really good in zvt and zvp try getting more then 2-3 more like 7-9 and figure it out then crying all day i bet you said the same when the infestor got changed come on if you really think that swarmhost was good for the game then theres no hope for you. Oh God, sorry, I dare to have an opinion that is not approved by the Council of Great Minds of TL, so there is no hope for me! Yes, I "play" Zerg, but I am a lousy player, I play mostly 2v2 for fun here and there and I very rarely ever built SHs, because they are so fucking difficult to use correctly! (Surprising, heh? You probably heard a tousand times how they are noob simple easytowin unit and thus think it's true because that's what you sheeps do.) But you apparently know me better then I do, so this is all just made up! You know what I do a lot? I watch the fucking game! And I happened to love watching long complex SH games in particular. Yes, they are not "dynamic" enough, because they take more time than taking a shit and that's about how long the average "sc2 fan" is able to keep his eyes open between his weed and his booze apparently. But they are awesome, it's like a TV series when people gradually come up with ways to combat the SH and have to actually make difficult decisions. The super-late-game with bases mined out, where there are no build orders, no thousand-times-practices situations and just split decisions and difficult questions, that's the most intruiging part of the whole thing. Not clicking fanatically to do the same rush for the milionth time - THAT's boring. And now we have the most interesitng part of the game taken away and every idiot celebrates. What a day to be alive! You are really over reacting its not that bad im sorry you feel this way but it was a bad unit and should have never been in the game. Also sorry but the unit was easy to use burrow set it and forget it no real micro beside burrow if you found this difficult then I dont know what to tell you man (and i play all three races so please dont say i dont know what im talking about) but again you seem to be very upset and overreacting to this change, like your life just got turned upside down. Im sorry you feel this way and yea sure there were some complex sh game but if you look at it one play (not the zerg) had to work alot harder ( i know i going to get shit for this) because he's combating wave after wave of free units from basically cross map. If you dont find something wrong with this then again idk what to say. I do agree with the whole super late game split decision is fun to watch but you rarely get there and only because of units like the swarmhost and raven. I think it will be even better now because we wont have mass pdds vs locust waves or locust vs locust or tempest shots vs locust. It will at least IMO will be more dynamic because everyones units will cost something and if they lose even one that could be game ending. But this is all moot because your hell bent on cursing everyone who think this was a great over due change (which is just about everyone). The thing is it's not like SH vs mech or SH vs Tempests games happened every single time like BL-Infestor in WoL. Maybe 1 time out of 20 games or something like that, and often people enjoyed watching them, because they were particular, even if not exciting in themselves. They didn't even produce one sided games most of the times.
no one ever said they produced one sided game they were boing turtle fest games. and that what everyones getting at. also
1 out of 20 isnt true any time terran went mech there were SH most if not every time and since were throwing random numbers of 5-10 pvz turned into SH snooze fest. I also even said there were some complexed SH games but after the first 5-10-15-20 games there all the same locust moving cross map and the opponent sitting there waiting till they had the best army and moved out trying to kill the zerg and that's the problem its boring to the majority dont want to watch locust crush into the protoss or mech terran for 45 mins and then the p or t moves cross map with ppds or toss deathball hoping to kill the zerg.
The problem is that if terran wants to go mech we see mass sh which turns into a turtle fest now that the SH is changed the hope is that the mech player can try and attack cross map without fight free unit all the way there. ITs a chicken and the egg thing what came first. zergs say they need SH to play the game and mech terran say they needed ravens to not die to mass locust waves.and same with toss if they see sh it turns into a turtle fest. you see the connection here right the swarmhost it made both players sit there and turtle for 45 mins.
like i said we will have to see if these changes prove this to be true, sure mech terrans and toss can turtle but thats up to them with the pdd and tempest change and up the the zerg to figure something out to break them, but right now all signs point to SH being the problem.
Again I'm going to say it if you want to break a mech or toss or a turtling player get VIPERS they were already good and they got a buff.
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On April 11 2015 01:30 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 01:07 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:28 opisska wrote:On April 10 2015 15:18 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:10 opisska wrote:
"Listening to the community" - hooray!!
Do you idiots understand that this is all YOUR FUCKING FAULT? That Blizzard did this only because you stupid whiny bitches who kept spouting nonsense about SH games being "not entertaining" enough for your useless little brains? Great, so now the game gets adapted to your majestic ADHD 5-minute attention span, because the average "fan" can't handle anything that goes on for more than that.
God, this is so stupid. Anything, really ANYTHING interesting Blizzard comes up with is crushed into the ground by this "
"community" of "experts" with "opinions". Everything that is not exactly the same boring shit again and again is either "inbalanced", "bad design" (lol at "design" in general anyway, it's just a buzzword every idiot nowadays uses to sound smart) or "boring" or "bad for the game".
I can't really imagine Blizzard coming up with anything interesting for LoTV. They have been forced to give up on the only really radical change in HoTS, why would they even try anymore? They will probably just make BW in 3D to make the five people who still care about BW (but produce thousands of posts each) happy and everyone will go play a stupid MOBA or an even more stupid card game anyway.
Everything nice gets destroyed by idiots. Real life has broken into SC2. Fuck you all. LOL someones upset they cant go mass swarmhost anymore. LOL it was boring and bad design and needs to just be removed from the game. Also vipers are really really really good in zvt and zvp try getting more then 2-3 more like 7-9 and figure it out then crying all day i bet you said the same when the infestor got changed come on if you really think that swarmhost was good for the game then theres no hope for you. Oh God, sorry, I dare to have an opinion that is not approved by the Council of Great Minds of TL, so there is no hope for me! Yes, I "play" Zerg, but I am a lousy player, I play mostly 2v2 for fun here and there and I very rarely ever built SHs, because they are so fucking difficult to use correctly! (Surprising, heh? You probably heard a tousand times how they are noob simple easytowin unit and thus think it's true because that's what you sheeps do.) But you apparently know me better then I do, so this is all just made up! You know what I do a lot? I watch the fucking game! And I happened to love watching long complex SH games in particular. Yes, they are not "dynamic" enough, because they take more time than taking a shit and that's about how long the average "sc2 fan" is able to keep his eyes open between his weed and his booze apparently. But they are awesome, it's like a TV series when people gradually come up with ways to combat the SH and have to actually make difficult decisions. The super-late-game with bases mined out, where there are no build orders, no thousand-times-practices situations and just split decisions and difficult questions, that's the most intruiging part of the whole thing. Not clicking fanatically to do the same rush for the milionth time - THAT's boring. And now we have the most interesitng part of the game taken away and every idiot celebrates. What a day to be alive! You are really over reacting its not that bad im sorry you feel this way but it was a bad unit and should have never been in the game. Also sorry but the unit was easy to use burrow set it and forget it no real micro beside burrow if you found this difficult then I dont know what to tell you man (and i play all three races so please dont say i dont know what im talking about) but again you seem to be very upset and overreacting to this change, like your life just got turned upside down. Im sorry you feel this way and yea sure there were some complex sh game but if you look at it one play (not the zerg) had to work alot harder ( i know i going to get shit for this) because he's combating wave after wave of free units from basically cross map. If you dont find something wrong with this then again idk what to say. I do agree with the whole super late game split decision is fun to watch but you rarely get there and only because of units like the swarmhost and raven. I think it will be even better now because we wont have mass pdds vs locust waves or locust vs locust or tempest shots vs locust. It will at least IMO will be more dynamic because everyones units will cost something and if they lose even one that could be game ending. But this is all moot because your hell bent on cursing everyone who think this was a great over due change (which is just about everyone). also going to say it again THE VIPER IS THE ANSWER TO MECH TERRAN not swarmhost the swamhost was just a way to delay enough to take the map and make what ever units needed to kill the terran but again the VIPER IS the Answer, not as good in ZVP,PVZ but I believe its the answer in there aswell pulling units and blinding cloud are stupidly under used. The unit exists for 2 years and suddendly it become ANSWER TO MECH TERRAN, why ? vikings are not nerfed ? still hard counter vipers easily and takes the upgrades of the ground. It's underused cause the counter of a Hive 100/200 gaz unit is a 150/75 unit that need less tech, and have free upgrades (and aslo counter broodlords).
suddendly LOL not even going to waste my time with that. smh get corrupotrs ppd got nerfed also 10 range blinding cloud out ranges 9 range viking. Im done here all zergs are going to just keep crying ive given you the answer and its the viper get more then 2-3 get 7-9 rest corruptors or whatever you need. Its an RTS figure it out or quit playing
you know what i will say is that the infestor was in the game for a while before anyone knew it was OP but ppl only want to be robots and do what everyone else is doing and saying.
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On April 11 2015 01:55 starslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 01:22 KingAlphard wrote:On April 11 2015 01:07 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:28 opisska wrote:On April 10 2015 15:18 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:10 opisska wrote:
"Listening to the community" - hooray!!
Do you idiots understand that this is all YOUR FUCKING FAULT? That Blizzard did this only because you stupid whiny bitches who kept spouting nonsense about SH games being "not entertaining" enough for your useless little brains? Great, so now the game gets adapted to your majestic ADHD 5-minute attention span, because the average "fan" can't handle anything that goes on for more than that.
God, this is so stupid. Anything, really ANYTHING interesting Blizzard comes up with is crushed into the ground by this "
"community" of "experts" with "opinions". Everything that is not exactly the same boring shit again and again is either "inbalanced", "bad design" (lol at "design" in general anyway, it's just a buzzword every idiot nowadays uses to sound smart) or "boring" or "bad for the game".
I can't really imagine Blizzard coming up with anything interesting for LoTV. They have been forced to give up on the only really radical change in HoTS, why would they even try anymore? They will probably just make BW in 3D to make the five people who still care about BW (but produce thousands of posts each) happy and everyone will go play a stupid MOBA or an even more stupid card game anyway.
Everything nice gets destroyed by idiots. Real life has broken into SC2. Fuck you all. LOL someones upset they cant go mass swarmhost anymore. LOL it was boring and bad design and needs to just be removed from the game. Also vipers are really really really good in zvt and zvp try getting more then 2-3 more like 7-9 and figure it out then crying all day i bet you said the same when the infestor got changed come on if you really think that swarmhost was good for the game then theres no hope for you. Oh God, sorry, I dare to have an opinion that is not approved by the Council of Great Minds of TL, so there is no hope for me! Yes, I "play" Zerg, but I am a lousy player, I play mostly 2v2 for fun here and there and I very rarely ever built SHs, because they are so fucking difficult to use correctly! (Surprising, heh? You probably heard a tousand times how they are noob simple easytowin unit and thus think it's true because that's what you sheeps do.) But you apparently know me better then I do, so this is all just made up! You know what I do a lot? I watch the fucking game! And I happened to love watching long complex SH games in particular. Yes, they are not "dynamic" enough, because they take more time than taking a shit and that's about how long the average "sc2 fan" is able to keep his eyes open between his weed and his booze apparently. But they are awesome, it's like a TV series when people gradually come up with ways to combat the SH and have to actually make difficult decisions. The super-late-game with bases mined out, where there are no build orders, no thousand-times-practices situations and just split decisions and difficult questions, that's the most intruiging part of the whole thing. Not clicking fanatically to do the same rush for the milionth time - THAT's boring. And now we have the most interesitng part of the game taken away and every idiot celebrates. What a day to be alive! You are really over reacting its not that bad im sorry you feel this way but it was a bad unit and should have never been in the game. Also sorry but the unit was easy to use burrow set it and forget it no real micro beside burrow if you found this difficult then I dont know what to tell you man (and i play all three races so please dont say i dont know what im talking about) but again you seem to be very upset and overreacting to this change, like your life just got turned upside down. Im sorry you feel this way and yea sure there were some complex sh game but if you look at it one play (not the zerg) had to work alot harder ( i know i going to get shit for this) because he's combating wave after wave of free units from basically cross map. If you dont find something wrong with this then again idk what to say. I do agree with the whole super late game split decision is fun to watch but you rarely get there and only because of units like the swarmhost and raven. I think it will be even better now because we wont have mass pdds vs locust waves or locust vs locust or tempest shots vs locust. It will at least IMO will be more dynamic because everyones units will cost something and if they lose even one that could be game ending. But this is all moot because your hell bent on cursing everyone who think this was a great over due change (which is just about everyone). The thing is it's not like SH vs mech or SH vs Tempests games happened every single time like BL-Infestor in WoL. Maybe 1 time out of 20 games or something like that, and often people enjoyed watching them, because they were particular, even if not exciting in themselves. They didn't even produce one sided games most of the times. no one ever said they produced one sided game they were boing turtle fest games. and that what everyones getting at. also 1 out of 20 isnt true any time terran went mech there were SH most if not every time and since were throwing random numbers of 5-10 pvz turned into SH snooze fest. I also even said there were some complexed SH games but after the first 5-10-15-20 games there all the same locust moving cross map and the opponent sitting there waiting till they had the best army and moved out trying to kill the zerg and that's the problem its boring to the majority dont want to watch locust crush into the protoss or mech terran for 45 mins and then the p or t moves cross map with ppds or toss deathball hoping to kill the zerg. The problem is that if terran wants to go mech we see mass sh which turns into a turtle fest now that the SH is changed the hope is that the mech player can try and attack cross map without fight free unit all the way there. ITs a chicken and the egg thing what came first. zergs say they need SH to play the game and mech terran say they needed ravens to not die to mass locust waves.and same with toss if they see sh it turns into a turtle fest. you see the connection here right the swarmhost it made both players sit there and turtle for 45 mins. like i said we will have to see if these changes prove this to be true, sure mech terrans and toss can turtle but thats up to them with the pdd and tempest change and up the the zerg to figure something out to break them, but right now all signs point to SH being the problem. Again I'm going to say it if you want to break a mech or toss or a turtling player get VIPERS they were already good and they got a buff.
Agree with are two parts with this problem of SH vs Terran mech/Protoss deathball, but disagree with voluntarily zergs choose to play SH, big part of zergs dont like SH bcoz they are slow and doesnt have the units when they need, that become at inmobilty to defend drops/multidrops that is the biggest weakness of SH play, and considering that zerg is the race that have to defend more expansions, SH is not something that zergs like, and casually is something that was changed in this patch, and also contribute the fact of the power of cost-effience of mech terran / protoss units, SH shouldnt exist in the game, but it means that mech terran/ protoss units should be nerfed to or zergs units buffed . And about viper is the same saying terran can use nuclear launches to break SH, the problem is the accesibility and the viable to use both bcoz both players play to , one burrow/unburrow and the other snipe the vipers with vikings, and was not cost-effective lose a expensive viper to abduct a tank or clouding 1-2 tanks, if the viper even get close enough to clouding something losing many vipers in the process, with the vikings and the torrets there ,doesnt matter if zerg have corruptors or mutas bcoz vikings snipe the vipers. Anyway i doubt tanks gona appear much in the new mech terran vs zerg, now gona be many thors and vikings in the mix that become more difficult the appeareance of vipers even with the range buff, the problem now is if before SH help zergs to deal with mech terran/protoss deathball, now wining a late game against that gona be something close to heroic XD.
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On April 11 2015 01:58 starslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 01:30 Tyrhanius wrote:On April 11 2015 01:07 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:28 opisska wrote:On April 10 2015 15:18 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:10 opisska wrote:
"Listening to the community" - hooray!!
Do you idiots understand that this is all YOUR FUCKING FAULT? That Blizzard did this only because you stupid whiny bitches who kept spouting nonsense about SH games being "not entertaining" enough for your useless little brains? Great, so now the game gets adapted to your majestic ADHD 5-minute attention span, because the average "fan" can't handle anything that goes on for more than that.
God, this is so stupid. Anything, really ANYTHING interesting Blizzard comes up with is crushed into the ground by this "
"community" of "experts" with "opinions". Everything that is not exactly the same boring shit again and again is either "inbalanced", "bad design" (lol at "design" in general anyway, it's just a buzzword every idiot nowadays uses to sound smart) or "boring" or "bad for the game".
I can't really imagine Blizzard coming up with anything interesting for LoTV. They have been forced to give up on the only really radical change in HoTS, why would they even try anymore? They will probably just make BW in 3D to make the five people who still care about BW (but produce thousands of posts each) happy and everyone will go play a stupid MOBA or an even more stupid card game anyway.
Everything nice gets destroyed by idiots. Real life has broken into SC2. Fuck you all. LOL someones upset they cant go mass swarmhost anymore. LOL it was boring and bad design and needs to just be removed from the game. Also vipers are really really really good in zvt and zvp try getting more then 2-3 more like 7-9 and figure it out then crying all day i bet you said the same when the infestor got changed come on if you really think that swarmhost was good for the game then theres no hope for you. Oh God, sorry, I dare to have an opinion that is not approved by the Council of Great Minds of TL, so there is no hope for me! Yes, I "play" Zerg, but I am a lousy player, I play mostly 2v2 for fun here and there and I very rarely ever built SHs, because they are so fucking difficult to use correctly! (Surprising, heh? You probably heard a tousand times how they are noob simple easytowin unit and thus think it's true because that's what you sheeps do.) But you apparently know me better then I do, so this is all just made up! You know what I do a lot? I watch the fucking game! And I happened to love watching long complex SH games in particular. Yes, they are not "dynamic" enough, because they take more time than taking a shit and that's about how long the average "sc2 fan" is able to keep his eyes open between his weed and his booze apparently. But they are awesome, it's like a TV series when people gradually come up with ways to combat the SH and have to actually make difficult decisions. The super-late-game with bases mined out, where there are no build orders, no thousand-times-practices situations and just split decisions and difficult questions, that's the most intruiging part of the whole thing. Not clicking fanatically to do the same rush for the milionth time - THAT's boring. And now we have the most interesitng part of the game taken away and every idiot celebrates. What a day to be alive! You are really over reacting its not that bad im sorry you feel this way but it was a bad unit and should have never been in the game. Also sorry but the unit was easy to use burrow set it and forget it no real micro beside burrow if you found this difficult then I dont know what to tell you man (and i play all three races so please dont say i dont know what im talking about) but again you seem to be very upset and overreacting to this change, like your life just got turned upside down. Im sorry you feel this way and yea sure there were some complex sh game but if you look at it one play (not the zerg) had to work alot harder ( i know i going to get shit for this) because he's combating wave after wave of free units from basically cross map. If you dont find something wrong with this then again idk what to say. I do agree with the whole super late game split decision is fun to watch but you rarely get there and only because of units like the swarmhost and raven. I think it will be even better now because we wont have mass pdds vs locust waves or locust vs locust or tempest shots vs locust. It will at least IMO will be more dynamic because everyones units will cost something and if they lose even one that could be game ending. But this is all moot because your hell bent on cursing everyone who think this was a great over due change (which is just about everyone). also going to say it again THE VIPER IS THE ANSWER TO MECH TERRAN not swarmhost the swamhost was just a way to delay enough to take the map and make what ever units needed to kill the terran but again the VIPER IS the Answer, not as good in ZVP,PVZ but I believe its the answer in there aswell pulling units and blinding cloud are stupidly under used. The unit exists for 2 years and suddendly it become ANSWER TO MECH TERRAN, why ? vikings are not nerfed ? still hard counter vipers easily and takes the upgrades of the ground. It's underused cause the counter of a Hive 100/200 gaz unit is a 150/75 unit that need less tech, and have free upgrades (and aslo counter broodlords). suddendly LOL not even going to waste my time with that. smh get corrupotrs ppd got nerfed also 10 range blinding cloud out ranges 9 range viking. Im done here all zergs are going to just keep crying ive given you the answer and its the viper get more then 2-3 get 7-9 rest corruptors or whatever you need. Its an RTS figure it out or quit playing you know what i will say is that the infestor was in the game for a while before anyone knew it was OP but ppl only want to be robots and do what everyone else is doing and saying.
Can we have replay of you doing that ? I mean as Zerg vs a diamand/master or even gm Terran. Cause i haven't a lot of Kor replay doing that, and as you seem better than anyone, just show it. Cause the blind cloud is on tank, not on vikings, you just put vikings at +3 in front of tank and they can shoot vipers before they can cast blinding cloud on tanks.
And personnally i have a mouse 1 and mouse 2 just for vipers, and infestors, and it's not units i never use, but you must have much more experience with some units in a race you don't play...
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On April 11 2015 01:07 starslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 15:28 opisska wrote:On April 10 2015 15:18 starslayer wrote:On April 10 2015 15:10 opisska wrote:
"Listening to the community" - hooray!!
Do you idiots understand that this is all YOUR FUCKING FAULT? That Blizzard did this only because you stupid whiny bitches who kept spouting nonsense about SH games being "not entertaining" enough for your useless little brains? Great, so now the game gets adapted to your majestic ADHD 5-minute attention span, because the average "fan" can't handle anything that goes on for more than that.
God, this is so stupid. Anything, really ANYTHING interesting Blizzard comes up with is crushed into the ground by this "
"community" of "experts" with "opinions". Everything that is not exactly the same boring shit again and again is either "inbalanced", "bad design" (lol at "design" in general anyway, it's just a buzzword every idiot nowadays uses to sound smart) or "boring" or "bad for the game".
I can't really imagine Blizzard coming up with anything interesting for LoTV. They have been forced to give up on the only really radical change in HoTS, why would they even try anymore? They will probably just make BW in 3D to make the five people who still care about BW (but produce thousands of posts each) happy and everyone will go play a stupid MOBA or an even more stupid card game anyway.
Everything nice gets destroyed by idiots. Real life has broken into SC2. Fuck you all. LOL someones upset they cant go mass swarmhost anymore. LOL it was boring and bad design and needs to just be removed from the game. Also vipers are really really really good in zvt and zvp try getting more then 2-3 more like 7-9 and figure it out then crying all day i bet you said the same when the infestor got changed come on if you really think that swarmhost was good for the game then theres no hope for you. Oh God, sorry, I dare to have an opinion that is not approved by the Council of Great Minds of TL, so there is no hope for me! Yes, I "play" Zerg, but I am a lousy player, I play mostly 2v2 for fun here and there and I very rarely ever built SHs, because they are so fucking difficult to use correctly! (Surprising, heh? You probably heard a tousand times how they are noob simple easytowin unit and thus think it's true because that's what you sheeps do.) But you apparently know me better then I do, so this is all just made up! You know what I do a lot? I watch the fucking game! And I happened to love watching long complex SH games in particular. Yes, they are not "dynamic" enough, because they take more time than taking a shit and that's about how long the average "sc2 fan" is able to keep his eyes open between his weed and his booze apparently. But they are awesome, it's like a TV series when people gradually come up with ways to combat the SH and have to actually make difficult decisions. The super-late-game with bases mined out, where there are no build orders, no thousand-times-practices situations and just split decisions and difficult questions, that's the most intruiging part of the whole thing. Not clicking fanatically to do the same rush for the milionth time - THAT's boring. And now we have the most interesitng part of the game taken away and every idiot celebrates. What a day to be alive! You are really over reacting its not that bad im sorry you feel this way but it was a bad unit and should have never been in the game. Also sorry but the unit was easy to use burrow set it and forget it no real micro beside burrow if you found this difficult then I dont know what to tell you man (and i play all three races so please dont say i dont know what im talking about) but again you seem to be very upset and overreacting to this change, like your life just got turned upside down. Im sorry you feel this way and yea sure there were some complex sh game but if you look at it one play (not the zerg) had to work alot harder ( i know i going to get shit for this) because he's combating wave after wave of free units from basically cross map. If you dont find something wrong with this then again idk what to say. I do agree with the whole super late game split decision is fun to watch but you rarely get there and only because of units like the swarmhost and raven. I think it will be even better now because we wont have mass pdds vs locust waves or locust vs locust or tempest shots vs locust. It will at least IMO will be more dynamic because everyones units will cost something and if they lose even one that could be game ending. But this is all moot because your hell bent on cursing everyone who think this was a great over due change (which is just about everyone). also going to say it again THE VIPER IS THE ANSWER TO MECH TERRAN not swarmhost the swamhost was just a way to delay enough to take the map and make what ever units needed to kill the terran but again the VIPER IS the Answer, not as good in ZVP,PVZ but I believe its the answer in there aswell pulling units and blinding cloud are stupidly under used.
I was honestly collecting arguments why everyone in this thread is a complete moron, but then I run into your posts, where you demonstrate that you actually read what I wrote and that you actually think about it and form an opinion instead of just quoting a verse form the Book of Infalible Truths on Shy SHs sucks in reply. Thank you, you made my day a little better.
I am still sad that the SHs are gone, it was a thing I really followed and I made sure to watch (where available, not gonna give my eastern european money to evil GSL overlords, sorry) every SH game I heard that was good in VODs. It was kinda like a series that got cancelled after in the middle of a big plot - while SHs are in some sense "figured out" (in the way that people know pretty well how to beat them), the ultra-late-game mech vs. SHs was remained completely unexplored. In every game you just saw the people desperately come up with solutions and you could physically observe how clueless they are about many aspects. If you watched more games, you suddenly started to understand what works and what doesn't a see an evolution. But the end to this story will forever remain open ... So if someone was mad when they cancelled Firefly (which was actually probably the best thing that could have happened for the series), they should understand why I am mad when they cancelled my SHs.
Now I am gonna say something that will make some people hate me even more, but I liked the same on BL/infestor. Towards the end, some answers started to emerge. Some were pretty weird (nukes from T, good HT usage from P and whatnot, it's such a long time I don't even remember lol - and the "neural on mothership" thing was pure gold, wasn't it?), some were just great plays (mainly mobility abuse) but it seemed people are figuring it out. Yes it was a little bit stupid when almost every Z game led to BL/festor and even I started to question it, but still it was an interesting narrative to follow.
At the end of the day it's cool that there are still so many people passionate enough to argue endlessly about some units in some game on the computer. It really shows a lot. (However it must be noted that the #passion of the day goes to TB and we are all noobs in this regard.)
/peace
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On April 10 2015 14:39 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 12:52 ggrrg wrote:
Holy shit!
It's not that I enjoyed watching SH games, but swinging the nerfbat so hard at them seems like a very poor decision. At best SH's role will change completely. What's more likely though, is that SH won't be used at all anymore. nerf bat? their dps just went from a hydra to 25% higher, how is that a nerf? lolwtf
Actually, if you do the math correctly, the weapon speed increase results in 33% dps increase. This however is completely negated by their supply cost increase of 33%, which in maxed out armies equals to a 33% dps decrease AND a 33% locusts' hp decrease. Furthermore, the increased gas cost is arguably a nerf to SH. But what really makes SH pointless now is the ridiculous cooldown increase of "spawn locusts". Even if the locusts survive their whole duration, there is still a 35 sec window in which SH cannot defend themselves at all. That's 35 seconds with X dead supply for zerg! Not to mention that the decrease in locust wave frequency alone theoretically translates in over 60% decrease in both dps and locusts' hp.
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As a zerg, Im actually pretty happy with the changes overall. I was never super into swarmhosts so the gigantic nerf doesn't affect me too much, but that viper range increase is dope, makes yoinking colossi without getting yoinked a lot easier
Also the raven change is totally justified, PDD is just battle tactic, as opposed to free static defense that can last up to to 4 in game minutes. I've always thought mass air TVZ gets OP as hell once enough ravens are amassed, so its nice to see that they can't just conserve their energy forever now
Edit: tempest nerf + viper range means broodlord resurgence in zvp , which is cool because they feel like they only work when zerg is super ahead these days
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On April 10 2015 05:46 DeadByDawn wrote:
They could have at least buffed the Raven in some area in compensation for nerfing it into the ground. A speed buff would have been welcome.
That's a bit extreme. I don't think they really "nerfed it into the ground." Look what they did to the SH. That could have been the Raven. At least Auto-turret still lasts for goddamn ever.
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On April 11 2015 07:38 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 05:46 DeadByDawn wrote:
They could have at least buffed the Raven in some area in compensation for nerfing it into the ground. A speed buff would have been welcome. That's a bit extreme. I don't think they really "nerfed it into the ground." Look what they did to the SH. That could have been the Raven. At least Auto-turret still lasts for goddamn ever.
I don't know what's up with all the whining about the Raven nerf. I've been playing like 5-10 TvZ turtlemech games today and it hasn't changed how you use ravens at all. What has changed is that you don't encounter the old swarm hosts, so you don't even need the long PDDs to fortify your positions.
In engagments with hydras or corruptors or mutas you just throw down the PDDs at the beginning of the combat and it is the exact same thing, and it is not like you would have thrown them down long before that with the old PDDs.
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On April 10 2015 23:13 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 22:07 ZenithM wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 Tyrhanius wrote:
It's so funny to see some people argue that having free units is OP and instant shot not. Free units are just weaker ! Having a unit as attack means you can kill it before it hits you, imagine if you can kill collossus lazer ? Do you consider that as a buff ?! Lol. You can run away from unit, forcefield them etc... It's indeed not surprising the SH game are this long as you need a lot of wave to do dmg, and people complains : OMG SH OP SO BORING ! Just compare 30SH who win in 45min-2Hours and the same cost of protoss 10 collossus +30 zealots that win on 2seconds!!! OMG REMOVE SH SO OP, DEATHBALL FINE.
It's just silly that they even nerf SH to make it even more cost uneffective and expensive while dealing dmg even slower (less waves per minuted) ! Sry to then consider people who think it's a good change, as or not enough skilled to talk about balance or else incredibly biased P or T mecher ! Colossus beams don't have range 30 though. They don't fly neither, so medivac better than colossus right ?
Your comparison of colossus and swarm host as siege units is valid (quite unlike your trolling about medivac), and I just added that the swarm host's big advantage over the colossus, which you completely forgot, is the huge range. If locusts had just enough life to reach range 10 or so, it would have to be rebalanced, obviously.
But reading your initial post, I realize now that I may have missed the troll.
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from a Terran perspective , i feel that the consequence of this patch is that protoss will literally win any game as they approach a maxed army as long as they are not exponentially behind in economy. Knowing that zerg is "all in" every game since without SH there is no "lets bring it to the late option" for zerg, is extremely powerful.
It is the reverse of the infestor broodlord problem in wol, where there was a unbeatable late game army that is readily achievable in a standard game
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On April 11 2015 14:19 vayuu wrote:
from a Terran perspective , i feel that the consequence of this patch is that protoss will literally win any game as they approach a maxed army as long as they are not exponentially behind in economy. Knowing that zerg is "all in" every game since without SH there is no "lets bring it to the late option" for zerg, is extremely powerful.
It is the reverse of the infestor broodlord problem in wol, where there was a unbeatable late game army that is readily achievable in a standard game
True, but zerg does not have Immortal sentry. :p
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On April 11 2015 16:19 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 14:19 vayuu wrote:
from a Terran perspective , i feel that the consequence of this patch is that protoss will literally win any game as they approach a maxed army as long as they are not exponentially behind in economy. Knowing that zerg is "all in" every game since without SH there is no "lets bring it to the late option" for zerg, is extremely powerful.
It is the reverse of the infestor broodlord problem in wol, where there was a unbeatable late game army that is readily achievable in a standard game True, but zerg does not have Immortal sentry. :p
Or even 10-pool anymore 
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One of the worst patches ever. Blizzard literally copied a LotV unit and did paste it on HotS after two (2) years of no major balance changes.
Swarm Host wasn't just nerfed, it was butchered. All those changes in cost, in spawning cooldown and in autocast is like Blizzard saying "Please don't use SH anymore"! Problem is, there's no alternative. LotV SH can be an acceptable harass unit simply because there are two (2) new units that will counter death-of-ball armies. Blizzard nerfed SH on HotS without adding something else. Viper is not an option because it means you have to go Hive tech and invest tons of gas. And even if you build several vipers, ZvTmech is a nightmare since Terran can mass produce 150/75 Vikings (the cheaper flier there is) and wipe your Vipers with their 9 range.
SH was only a problem on PvZ because Zerg player had a zero APM unit pushing Protoss. But if that's the case why allowing other autocast units like Widow Mines exist? On INnoVation vs Life (IEM Katowice), INnoVation won the series by mass producing WMs and getting lucky detonations, it was a zero apm unit vs skill race, same thing on a smaller scale happened at some point at Polt vs Hydra. I haven't seen Blizzard nerfing WMs!
And ofc, the question that everybody is thinking: Why Blizzard waited 2 whole years in order to make such a drastic gameplay change? As I have said before, Blizzard doesn't care for gameplay or gaming experience of the average player. It only cares about profit and their precious PRO scene. If they cared, they would had created a RTS gameplay like Starbow's, not a RTS gameplay like R-Type. They care for fast-paced games and exciting battles for stream audience. They care about their 400 APM Koreans. SH wars weren't quite "exciting". And since HotS is a "end of life" product, Blizzard is moving on to LotV by burning the land behind.
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Swarmhost was the one unit that literally made me quit SC2. Glad to see its finally being retooled this is good, but it still needs work in the sense that their about to grab a giant buff from Legacy. I'd like to see a better way of dealing with them, and, giving them more movespeed seems to compound this problem. I think at a high level this being more of a buff than a nerf, and you can just hold the key down to get just as fast if not faster flying locust. Glad to see Enduring is gone as well.
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I think the swarm host nerf was the best thing that has happened to this game.
I hated playing against them and I stopped watching any game that had a Zerg player in it due to the possibility of swarm hosts.
I just wished Blizzard had nerfed them earlier instead of letting them damage the game for so long.
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EPT
