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On twitch right now there are 6 streams with 150+ viewers. One is a french rebroadcast of IEM and two are viewbotted. Even being a well known Korean like Revival doesn't get you 150 viewers.
And the requirements went down? Wow.
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Ouch, that hurts. I found Winter's stream decent and entertaining, so I tuned in from time to time. Also, it looked like he developed a lot from the very beginning until today. He found his peak even at HSC commentary, which was controversial.
 a shame to see him go down this way. Just yesterday, I reported a post that said Winter was viewbotting without knowledge of that reddit thread providing proof. Gosh! Well, won't tune in anymore.
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On March 16 2015 17:44 codonbyte wrote:
Honestly I think if someone wants to hurt a streamer, there are far cheaper and more effective ways of doing it.
For starters, stream-sniping is an extremely effective way to fuck with streamers. It's 100% free, and it allows you to get an unfair advantage against them, which allows you to beat them, and then as an added bonus you get to BM them in front of their own audience.
For those sociopaths that want to do more, DDossing is far far cheaper, and there's zero chance that your DDos will backfire and end up helping the streamer.
Viewbotting is expensive, and it has a high chance of helping the streamer instead of hurting them. I just can't see sociopaths doing it when cheap, effective alternatives like stream-sniping and DDossing exist.
Well, it'd seem you RTS players see right through people's 'strategies'. I guess most of the percieved 'rep' I've lost happened whilst I was dumb enough to feel the need to defend myself vs that eSport penguin & its fans.
Codonbyte: For those real sadistic people who want to absolutely ruin someone. Be female. Openly single. Attractive. Turn your Twitch inbox into a honeytrap. Play senpai. Be supportive, be inclusive, then be exclusive, & dehumanizing toward someone just as they begin to treat you as a friend. If they persist, bait them into your honeytrap again. Talk about them until they feel the need to talk to you. Make sure everyone hears about it. Play victim. Go full damsel in distress if you have to.
If somehow they survive your second assault, persist. Deviate from Twitch. Hire underlings. Have them do your dirty work while you enjoy the finest company. Hide how much fun you're having by occasionally flipping on your stream whilst hung over and generally salty at life.
Then, deliver a low blow. Deviate from your main point of their social invalidity, and hit them where it hurts-- their gaming. Tell them they aren't a streamer. Then, as they are on hour 23 of their first 24-hour stream, Post that you made GM, & play damsel in distress over accusations of being boosted. Hope that he sees your strategy and that it enfuriates him.
Also hope that he doesn't have a PhD in English & writes paragraph after paragraph of indesputable support in your "Grats on making GM" BM-bait thread on Reddit.
Yeah, I don't know strategy.
-[kait]David
User was banned for this post.
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Well i hope Winter clean his act. I really like to tune in on his stream from time to time (well i still can do that even if not feature). But i thought he was cleared out of viewbotting. Seeing that there's new evidence the indicate that he is pains me
TL is doing the right thing.
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On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D
When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat.
Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter.
I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either.
You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream.
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Point 1:
Well seams like winter wrote he had problems with bots 10 months ago:
"I was botted last night about 1000 viewers(of 3000) for about 3 hours, then about 10 days ago about 1500 viewers for 2 hours. These are the last two occassions. It is very obvious when viewerbots come/go and it is not a regular basis, and it's actually very annoying because you can't tell exactly what your real viewercount is."
So don't understand the point of this "recent" evidence that just confirms what he himself said, its a bit like the "climate gate" when something need to be uncovered in an sensational way to make headlines (many of the quote-mines in "climate gate" exist or referees to things long time ago published by the scientists).
Point 2:
Cost is not something that will discourage ppl from doing things to harm others over internet. I have played an mmo and know multiboxers that put down more then 1k/ month to troll people they hate by instant killing them. From my perspective its insane since i am a poor student... and TL staff probably don't have money in excess either, but some people do.
Point 3:
Most news organisations try (or claim) to follow journalist ethics that require comments from the person/organisation targeted. Would probably be good if Team Liquid implemented this since else it could harm people without them being able to defend themselves. I am not either familiar with the US defamation law.
Footnote: If i would guess i would say 70% chance winter is behind the bots in some way and think the decision to un-feature his stream was justified until this situation being solved.
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If it is strongly believed he has been viewbotting or not discouraging it enough, then should he even be listed in the non-featured streams?
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On March 16 2015 18:20 InDLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat. Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter. I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either. You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream.
Derail the thread more. This thread is about the revised featurelist. No one claimed Avilo > Winter or anything. If you believe Winter is legit, sub him, donate to him, do whatever you like.
Fact is a big amount of people would never do it because of what is written in the OP.
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Thank you for this TL as it shows TLs integrity and aim is to place credit where credit is due.
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On March 16 2015 18:28 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 18:20 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat. Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter. I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either. You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream. Derail the thread more. This thread is about the revised featurelist. No one claimed Avilo > Winter or anything. If you believe Winter is legit, sub him, donate to him, do whatever you like. Fact is a big amount of people would never do it because of what is written in the OP.
I claimed Winter > Avilo. And I am on topic thank you very much.
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On March 16 2015 18:35 InDLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 18:28 bluQ wrote:On March 16 2015 18:20 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat. Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter. I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either. You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream. Derail the thread more. This thread is about the revised featurelist. No one claimed Avilo > Winter or anything. If you believe Winter is legit, sub him, donate to him, do whatever you like. Fact is a big amount of people would never do it because of what is written in the OP. I claimed Winter > Avilo. And I am on topic thank you very much.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the revised featurelist, Winter is not the topic of this thread and neither is Avilo.
Get on topic or get out.
I really like these new changes from TL, great that you adapt to the environment and its going to be very fun to check out the new featured streamers that will come. ^_^
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Thanks for allowing challenger league streamers once again.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 16 2015 18:35 InDLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 18:28 bluQ wrote:On March 16 2015 18:20 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat. Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter. I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either. You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream. Derail the thread more. This thread is about the revised featurelist. No one claimed Avilo > Winter or anything. If you believe Winter is legit, sub him, donate to him, do whatever you like. Fact is a big amount of people would never do it because of what is written in the OP. I claimed Winter > Avilo. And I am on topic thank you very much.
Please drop the Avilo-Winter arguments. Avilo is relevant insofar as to explaining the harms to legitimate streamers from viewbotting and no further.
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On March 16 2015 18:39 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 18:35 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 18:28 bluQ wrote:On March 16 2015 18:20 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat. Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter. I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either. You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream. Derail the thread more. This thread is about the revised featurelist. No one claimed Avilo > Winter or anything. If you believe Winter is legit, sub him, donate to him, do whatever you like. Fact is a big amount of people would never do it because of what is written in the OP. I claimed Winter > Avilo. And I am on topic thank you very much. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the revised featurelist, Winter is not the topic of this thread and neither is Avilo. Get on topic or get out. I really like these new changes from TL, great that you adapt to the environment and its going to be very fun to check out the new featured streamers that will come. ^_^
Winter has been a part of this thread's topic since Page 1. Even Avilo was mentioned in the announcement.
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Honestly the changes to the criteria that you have to meet to become featured look awesome to me. Should open up the doorway to many new personalities. I remember how hard it used to be to become featured.
I'd also like it if they made it so that people who are playing unusual or underplayed game-modes would be given some preferential treatment. I think it would be awesome if we had someone regularly streaming high level 4v4 money map games (BGH + Fastest Possible Map FTW!).
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On March 16 2015 18:35 InDLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 18:28 bluQ wrote:On March 16 2015 18:20 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat. Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter. I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either. You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream. Derail the thread more. This thread is about the revised featurelist. No one claimed Avilo > Winter or anything. If you believe Winter is legit, sub him, donate to him, do whatever you like. Fact is a big amount of people would never do it because of what is written in the OP. I claimed Winter > Avilo. And I am on topic thank you very much.
I agree with your claim.
You are off-topic.
I support TL's decision to de-feature the streamers that benefited from viewbots.
Nothing is stopping you from continuing to enjoy any stream you like.
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On March 16 2015 18:41 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 18:35 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 18:28 bluQ wrote:On March 16 2015 18:20 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat. Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter. I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either. You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream. Derail the thread more. This thread is about the revised featurelist. No one claimed Avilo > Winter or anything. If you believe Winter is legit, sub him, donate to him, do whatever you like. Fact is a big amount of people would never do it because of what is written in the OP. I claimed Winter > Avilo. And I am on topic thank you very much. Please drop the Avilo-Winter arguments. Avilo is relevant insofar as to explaining the harms to legitimate streamers from viewbotting and no further.
It isn't about Avilo-Winter. It is about an Avilo mod devaluing my appreciation for a different streamer. If you don't want me talking about them in this context then you shouldn't let that propaganda tier(practically flamebaiting) comment from codonbyte fly.
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On March 16 2015 18:43 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 18:35 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 18:28 bluQ wrote:On March 16 2015 18:20 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat. Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter. I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either. You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream. Derail the thread more. This thread is about the revised featurelist. No one claimed Avilo > Winter or anything. If you believe Winter is legit, sub him, donate to him, do whatever you like. Fact is a big amount of people would never do it because of what is written in the OP. I claimed Winter > Avilo. And I am on topic thank you very much. I agree with your claim. You are off-topic. I support TL's decision to de-feature the streamers that benefited from viewbots. Nothing is stopping you from continuing to enjoy any stream you like.
No, nothing is stopping me from continuing to enjoy any stream I like. However I have a problem with TL taking such a hard position against winter, when I believe TL should be neutral. I'm not saying TL should not unfeature Winter. Even if they decided to unfeature him forever I would understand and respect the decision. There was a lot more in that announcement than just a decision.
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For people who (legitimately) try to defend winter I suggest you read the Reddit post.
This is an interesting part for instance:
The full evidence compilation has a text file that has my completed viewbotter research, along with snippits from my IRC chat log (as well as the log file itself) from Winter's channel as he was alledgely being DDOS'ed. Viewbots were leaving in a mass exodus. Why would viewbots be leaving when Winter's internet is failing? Could it be that it's his internet that is running said bots?
This strongly suggests Winter is lying. On top of that you have the low chat/ high viewer count ratio and the unlikeliness of someone paying a lot of money just to troll Winter.
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EPT
