|
it is a good move to de-feature Winter and also to give him a chance to recover.
it'll be interesting to see Winter's next moves.
We recognise that Winter, as a direct consequence of being boosted by viewbotting services, has attracted a legitimate viewerbase and even some legitimate subscribers. But it is impossible for us to measure the strength of that legitimate viewership in relation to our normal featuring standards while viewbotting continues on Winter's channel. We will be reviewing this decision in six months time, where if Winter is able to show us that his channel is no longer supported by viewbots and his viewership meets our minimum standard for featuring, we will re-feature Winter.
|
On March 16 2015 18:51 Penev wrote:For people who (legitimately) try to defend winter I suggest you read the Reddit post. This is an interesting part for instance: Show nested quote +The full evidence compilation has a text file that has my completed viewbotter research, along with snippits from my IRC chat log (as well as the log file itself) from Winter's channel as he was alledgely being DDOS'ed. Viewbots were leaving in a mass exodus. Why would viewbots be leaving when Winter's internet is failing? Could it be that it's his internet that is running said bots? This strongly suggests Winter is lying. On top of that you have the low chat/ high viewer count ratio and the unlikeliness of someone paying a lot of money just to troll Winter.
Exactly. As I said earlier, if someone wants to hurt a streamer, they're going to use one of the tried-and-true methods for doing so: either stream-cheating or DDossing. Both those methods are MUCH cheaper and more immediately damaging, without there being a risk that you help the streamer instead of hurt them.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 16 2015 18:45 InDLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 18:41 Plexa wrote:On March 16 2015 18:35 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 18:28 bluQ wrote:On March 16 2015 18:20 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:51 codonbyte wrote:On March 16 2015 17:40 InDLegacy wrote:On March 16 2015 17:30 codonbyte wrote:-unsnip- Excellent job, teamliquid.
The term "toxic" is thrown around (too) often in this community, but if there is one type of person who is truly deserving of the label, it's a viewbotter. Viewers who are into watching streams are finite, and the hours that said viewers are willing to devote to watching streams are also finite.
One of the things I've learned as I transition from kid world into the dark and dreary Adult World is that all those sayings that adults used to throw at me are lies. "Cheaters never win" is probably the biggest lie out there. Of course cheaters win. They have an unfair advantage, why wouldn't they win? Sure, sometimes they get caught, but most of the time people who cheat get away with it. The same goes for cops who beat innocent people up. And people who shoplift.
I currently work in retail and they've told me that I'm not allowed to stop someone from stealing something even if it's right in front of me (yeah yeah liability blaah blaah). Heck, it's especially true for people who shoplift; I've seen people walk out with a backpack full of stuff and the manager doesn't apprehend them "because we didn't actually see her put it in the bag". Sometimes I wish I was a little kid again, when I actually believed that the good guys would always win.
It is a lie to say that cheaters never win, but at least we can say that this particular cheater didn't win. That this particular cheater was brought to justice. That this particular thief didn't just walk right past my register with a backpack full of viewers. That this particular cheater, who was stealing viewers AND sponsorship money from honest hard-working streamers, was brought to justice.
Thank you, teamliquid. Thank you for making the lie at least a tiny bit true on this night. It's nice to occasionally see someone actually have to pay for their crimes. Well, you sure do sound passionate. Today Winter was unfeatured on TL. Yet he still pulled in more than double the viewership of Avilo. Who by the way claimed that Winter turned off his viewbots because hes "scared". Still... seems like a winner to me. By the way. When someone is getting mugged on the street. The consensus is to hand over your valuables and let them walk away. The same applies to shop lifters in a retail store. It applies to people on cash registers too. Why? Because getting stabbed for material items does not make you a hero. It makes you a fool. Oh and holding police brutality on the same scale as viewbotting. Real classy. Yeah of course he did, he's been at the top of the page for the past year thanks to his viewbots. That's the entire point of viewbots: fake viewers generate real viewers. That's the only motivation for viewbotting, since they don't generate ad revenue (thank god). And yes, since you brought up avilo, I am mad that winter cheated his way to the top of the page while avilo has been working his ass off for the past three years to get to where he is today. I remember when I first started watching him and he only had about 50 viewers. He's come a long way since then. Also, I never said that viewbotting was at the same level as police brutality; only that they are both things that people get away with far too often. Nice straw-man argument though :D When I watch Winter's stream. I don't hear anything about Avilo. No one talks about Avilo. People ask Winter why the name gets you a time out. He says it is because the name is toxic. It is toxic, just like how Winter's name is toxic in Avilo's chat. Except chatter on Winter in Avilo's chat isn't restricted. Why? Because its standard for your chat to talk crap about Winter all day, everyday. I see Avilo trying hard in his GM game, being extremely happy with having just won in a TvT and he is yelling "THATS how you Terran!". At that moment I look to chat, and I don't see anyone talking about the game Avilo just played. Instead people are just spamming destructoid robot emotes and talking about Winter. I switch back to Winter's stream. No one is talking about Avilo. Instead people are talking about the game Winter is playing. Random trolls from reddit are entering trying to derail chat with viewbot accusations. The mods ban them all. The chat continues to talk about the stream, the game. The banana Winter just ate on stream suggestively. Theorycrafting where all the water Winter drinks goes. Not Avilo. Not Avilo's viewership or community either. You can sit here and try to say that Winter owes his viewership to viewbotting. But I can tell you right now which stream I find to be more entertaining and worth watching. You talk about how other people try just as hard as Winter? How many people are streaming 80+ hours a week? How many people are maintaining a GM account while leveling a different account to Masters almost every other day? I could list 10 other things Winter does differently that sets him apart. I don't expect you to know or understand any of these reasons since you clearly don't watch his stream. But you thinking you can define why someone likes a stream, attributing whole success to cheating, just goes to show how proud of a Mod you are for Avilo's stream. Derail the thread more. This thread is about the revised featurelist. No one claimed Avilo > Winter or anything. If you believe Winter is legit, sub him, donate to him, do whatever you like. Fact is a big amount of people would never do it because of what is written in the OP. I claimed Winter > Avilo. And I am on topic thank you very much. Please drop the Avilo-Winter arguments. Avilo is relevant insofar as to explaining the harms to legitimate streamers from viewbotting and no further. It isn't about Avilo-Winter. It is about an Avilo mod devaluing my appreciation for a different streamer. If you don't want me talking about them in this context then you shouldn't let that propaganda tier(practically flamebaiting) comment from codonbyte fly.
You've brought all the off topic discussion into this thread, codon has been on topic barring the times he's replied to your gripe against avilo. Please drop it or you'll force my hand.
|
Oh my god, this is amazing. I love that you guys seem to appreciate content creators this much. Personally I put so much work into guides but it really hurts when it does not get recognized. Thanks for being awesome and supporting those that really try to help others! (even if I'm not on the list, this is the right move  )
|
That was a needed step and finally it was approached. Credit to those who already tried to give this information to TL before but got denied.
|
On March 16 2015 16:17 InDLegacy wrote:
Oh please. Let me point out what this is really all about. This is about TL trying to avoid any of this drama. There are trolls all over Twitch and Reddit looking to create drama anywhere and everywhere Winter is advertised, and TL doesn't want any of it. If you honestly expect any rational person to accept that you can't gauge if Winter meets your 100-150 viewer requirement, viewbots or not, then you are trying too hard to come up with excuses. You can already look up stats on his subs, being way over that amount (Over 600).
Avilo has had an obsessive attitude towards Winter for a long time now. The kind that borders stalking. This is why any mention of his name warrants a time out in Winter's chat. I looked through that reddit post. I saw the proof. I agree that there has undoubtedly been viewbots on Winter's channel. Yet some of those "suspicious" accounts Avilo cites follow typical stupid naming schemes people have been using for decades now. Really? We're to suspect xxCloudUchihaxxk because his name is dumb and he is only following Winter?
There is only one party that can determine if Winter is at fault here. That is Twitch. All Twitch has done thus far is work with Winter to take measures to stop his channel from getting viewbot traffic. They have in the past banned streamers for viewboting. Yet here they haven't. I'm sorry but you can't just point out "Twitch is doing nothing about it" like they are simply choosing not to.
For anyone else, the burden of proof is on the accuser. The evidence Avilo presented is not good enough to determine if Winter backed those bots.
All being said. Winter HAS helped the Sc2 community. His viewership is the only way SC2 hits the top streamed games list when there are no professional games being streamed. For TL to take a stance like this so publicly, I can only find it disrespectful.
Exactly my point. Burden of proof is on tl not winter. Until and unless winter can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that he has been doing what he has been alleged to then leave him alone. Jelly much.
|
Im glad to see Winter has been sanctioned by TL, given the evidence that was presented in the Reddit thread. I hope this will be an incentive for people like FilterSC, Fenner and Mcanning to continue to produce the content they do and try for that hallowed "featured" status. What now remains to be seen is what Twitch intends to do about viewbotting.
|
On March 16 2015 16:42 oOOoOphidian wrote:
HTOMario was viewbotted for the week which earned him featured status, should he be removed as well until he can maintain the requirements that were posted legitimately?
Read the whole thing. It covers HTOMario.
|
On March 16 2015 19:59 skylinefan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 16:17 InDLegacy wrote:
Oh please. Let me point out what this is really all about. This is about TL trying to avoid any of this drama. There are trolls all over Twitch and Reddit looking to create drama anywhere and everywhere Winter is advertised, and TL doesn't want any of it. If you honestly expect any rational person to accept that you can't gauge if Winter meets your 100-150 viewer requirement, viewbots or not, then you are trying too hard to come up with excuses. You can already look up stats on his subs, being way over that amount (Over 600).
Avilo has had an obsessive attitude towards Winter for a long time now. The kind that borders stalking. This is why any mention of his name warrants a time out in Winter's chat. I looked through that reddit post. I saw the proof. I agree that there has undoubtedly been viewbots on Winter's channel. Yet some of those "suspicious" accounts Avilo cites follow typical stupid naming schemes people have been using for decades now. Really? We're to suspect xxCloudUchihaxxk because his name is dumb and he is only following Winter?
There is only one party that can determine if Winter is at fault here. That is Twitch. All Twitch has done thus far is work with Winter to take measures to stop his channel from getting viewbot traffic. They have in the past banned streamers for viewboting. Yet here they haven't. I'm sorry but you can't just point out "Twitch is doing nothing about it" like they are simply choosing not to.
For anyone else, the burden of proof is on the accuser. The evidence Avilo presented is not good enough to determine if Winter backed those bots.
All being said. Winter HAS helped the Sc2 community. His viewership is the only way SC2 hits the top streamed games list when there are no professional games being streamed. For TL to take a stance like this so publicly, I can only find it disrespectful. Exactly my point. Burden of proof is on tl not winter. Until and unless winter can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that he has been doing what he has been alleged to then leave him alone. Jelly much.
You are correct that burden of proof should be on TL. However I would like to point out that you can convict someone of murder purely with circumstantial evidence, provided that you have enough of it. That is exactly the situation that we have here: we have not caught winter red-handed, however we do have an overwhelming amount (160MB!) of evidence that suggests that he viewbotted his stream. For me the piece of evidence that is the nail in the coffin is the logs showing the viewbots leaving his channel right when a DDos happened. Multiple times. That's just too much of a coincidence for me to vote "not guilty" on.
|
On March 16 2015 17:23 HTOMario wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 16:00 looknohands119 wrote:
I'm very disappointed. You should know better. Are you serious? Because I'm starting to wonder if you're some massive troll.
He is Winter's mod.
|
Lichter, Can you share a list of Streamers that are currently featured?
I don't want to start spamming names of streamers when you have already considered them.
|
On March 16 2015 16:17 InDLegacy wrote:
Oh please. Let me point out what this is really all about. This is about TL trying to avoid any of this drama. There are trolls all over Twitch and Reddit looking to create drama anywhere and everywhere Winter is advertised, and TL doesn't want any of it. If you honestly expect any rational person to accept that you can't gauge if Winter meets your 100-150 viewer requirement, viewbots or not, then you are trying too hard to come up with excuses. You can already look up stats on his subs, being way over that amount (Over 600).
Avilo has had an obsessive attitude towards Winter for a long time now. The kind that borders stalking. This is why any mention of his name warrants a time out in Winter's chat. I looked through that reddit post. I saw the proof. I agree that there has undoubtedly been viewbots on Winter's channel. Yet some of those "suspicious" accounts Avilo cites follow typical stupid naming schemes people have been using for decades now. Really? We're to suspect xxCloudUchihaxxk because his name is dumb and he is only following Winter?
There is only one party that can determine if Winter is at fault here. That is Twitch. All Twitch has done thus far is work with Winter to take measures to stop his channel from getting viewbot traffic. They have in the past banned streamers for viewboting. Yet here they haven't. I'm sorry but you can't just point out "Twitch is doing nothing about it" like they are simply choosing not to.
For anyone else, the burden of proof is on the accuser. The evidence Avilo presented is not good enough to determine if Winter backed those bots.
All being said. Winter HAS helped the Sc2 community. His viewership is the only way SC2 hits the top streamed games list when there are no professional games being streamed. For TL to take a stance like this so publicly, I can only find it disrespectful.
Sums my thoughts up pretty well. Innocent until proven guilty and the 'evidence' against Winter is pretty lightweight imo.
Feels a little bit like TL has given in to the pitchfork crowd because they don't want the drama. Fair enough I suppose, but it's a bit sad 
Edit - Added sadface
|
On March 16 2015 20:17 Mallidon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 16:17 InDLegacy wrote:
Oh please. Let me point out what this is really all about. This is about TL trying to avoid any of this drama. There are trolls all over Twitch and Reddit looking to create drama anywhere and everywhere Winter is advertised, and TL doesn't want any of it. If you honestly expect any rational person to accept that you can't gauge if Winter meets your 100-150 viewer requirement, viewbots or not, then you are trying too hard to come up with excuses. You can already look up stats on his subs, being way over that amount (Over 600).
Avilo has had an obsessive attitude towards Winter for a long time now. The kind that borders stalking. This is why any mention of his name warrants a time out in Winter's chat. I looked through that reddit post. I saw the proof. I agree that there has undoubtedly been viewbots on Winter's channel. Yet some of those "suspicious" accounts Avilo cites follow typical stupid naming schemes people have been using for decades now. Really? We're to suspect xxCloudUchihaxxk because his name is dumb and he is only following Winter?
There is only one party that can determine if Winter is at fault here. That is Twitch. All Twitch has done thus far is work with Winter to take measures to stop his channel from getting viewbot traffic. They have in the past banned streamers for viewboting. Yet here they haven't. I'm sorry but you can't just point out "Twitch is doing nothing about it" like they are simply choosing not to.
For anyone else, the burden of proof is on the accuser. The evidence Avilo presented is not good enough to determine if Winter backed those bots.
All being said. Winter HAS helped the Sc2 community. His viewership is the only way SC2 hits the top streamed games list when there are no professional games being streamed. For TL to take a stance like this so publicly, I can only find it disrespectful. Sums my thoughts up pretty well. Innocent until proven guilty and the 'evidence' against Winter is pretty lightweight imo. Feels a little bit like TL has given in to the pitchfork crowd because they don't want the drama. Fair enough I suppose, but it's a bit sad Edit - Added sadface
Please sum up the evidence for me, I'm curious
|
Is Winter not featured or not listed at all?
|
On March 16 2015 20:27 Wormi wrote:
Is Winter not featured or not listed at all?
Still listed, just in the non-featured section.
|
I don't understand the rule about Challenger league, is a player like PtitDrogo considered as currently in Challenger league or has having been eliminated from it, thus not being featured?
I also like the first rule for de-featuring streams, although for famous players this will probably won't be respected.
|
On March 16 2015 20:19 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 20:17 Mallidon wrote:On March 16 2015 16:17 InDLegacy wrote:
Oh please. Let me point out what this is really all about. This is about TL trying to avoid any of this drama. There are trolls all over Twitch and Reddit looking to create drama anywhere and everywhere Winter is advertised, and TL doesn't want any of it. If you honestly expect any rational person to accept that you can't gauge if Winter meets your 100-150 viewer requirement, viewbots or not, then you are trying too hard to come up with excuses. You can already look up stats on his subs, being way over that amount (Over 600).
Avilo has had an obsessive attitude towards Winter for a long time now. The kind that borders stalking. This is why any mention of his name warrants a time out in Winter's chat. I looked through that reddit post. I saw the proof. I agree that there has undoubtedly been viewbots on Winter's channel. Yet some of those "suspicious" accounts Avilo cites follow typical stupid naming schemes people have been using for decades now. Really? We're to suspect xxCloudUchihaxxk because his name is dumb and he is only following Winter?
There is only one party that can determine if Winter is at fault here. That is Twitch. All Twitch has done thus far is work with Winter to take measures to stop his channel from getting viewbot traffic. They have in the past banned streamers for viewboting. Yet here they haven't. I'm sorry but you can't just point out "Twitch is doing nothing about it" like they are simply choosing not to.
For anyone else, the burden of proof is on the accuser. The evidence Avilo presented is not good enough to determine if Winter backed those bots.
All being said. Winter HAS helped the Sc2 community. His viewership is the only way SC2 hits the top streamed games list when there are no professional games being streamed. For TL to take a stance like this so publicly, I can only find it disrespectful. Sums my thoughts up pretty well. Innocent until proven guilty and the 'evidence' against Winter is pretty lightweight imo. Feels a little bit like TL has given in to the pitchfork crowd because they don't want the drama. Fair enough I suppose, but it's a bit sad Edit - Added sadface Please sum up the evidence for me, I'm curious
Highlights for me:
''Most if not all of these should be connected to viewbotting. I apologize if an account has been listed that is innocent.''
''NOTE: There are several accounts not listed here in these newer screencaps I suspect to be bots.''
''Previous banned viewbotter EggYSC2.''
Full of opinion and jumping to conclusions with no hard evidence. He even states some of these accounts might be 'innocent' but still lists them. Listing a new account of this Heroes of the Storm Eggy guy playing poker just because he previously used viewbots for Heroes and has apparently apologised for his behaviour and had his old account banned. Would be pretty stupid to start up viewbotting again then, but he's listed again as a 'suspected viewbotter' with absolutely no proof that he is doing so on his new account.
Basically, if you want to bring hard evidence on people, don't go throwing in ANYTHING that you personally suspect as a viewbotter, because it dilutes your entire argument (or at least it should). Pretty much like in a criminal court where certain charges cannot be proved, so only the ones that can be proved will be brought to ensure a conviction.
|
On March 16 2015 20:06 Blind Io wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 16:42 oOOoOphidian wrote:
HTOMario was viewbotted for the week which earned him featured status, should he be removed as well until he can maintain the requirements that were posted legitimately? Read the whole thing. It covers HTOMario.
That is a new development after I made that post.
|
On March 16 2015 20:17 Mallidon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 16:17 InDLegacy wrote:
Oh please. Let me point out what this is really all about. This is about TL trying to avoid any of this drama. There are trolls all over Twitch and Reddit looking to create drama anywhere and everywhere Winter is advertised, and TL doesn't want any of it. If you honestly expect any rational person to accept that you can't gauge if Winter meets your 100-150 viewer requirement, viewbots or not, then you are trying too hard to come up with excuses. You can already look up stats on his subs, being way over that amount (Over 600).
Avilo has had an obsessive attitude towards Winter for a long time now. The kind that borders stalking. This is why any mention of his name warrants a time out in Winter's chat. I looked through that reddit post. I saw the proof. I agree that there has undoubtedly been viewbots on Winter's channel. Yet some of those "suspicious" accounts Avilo cites follow typical stupid naming schemes people have been using for decades now. Really? We're to suspect xxCloudUchihaxxk because his name is dumb and he is only following Winter?
There is only one party that can determine if Winter is at fault here. That is Twitch. All Twitch has done thus far is work with Winter to take measures to stop his channel from getting viewbot traffic. They have in the past banned streamers for viewboting. Yet here they haven't. I'm sorry but you can't just point out "Twitch is doing nothing about it" like they are simply choosing not to.
For anyone else, the burden of proof is on the accuser. The evidence Avilo presented is not good enough to determine if Winter backed those bots.
All being said. Winter HAS helped the Sc2 community. His viewership is the only way SC2 hits the top streamed games list when there are no professional games being streamed. For TL to take a stance like this so publicly, I can only find it disrespectful. Sums my thoughts up pretty well. Innocent until proven guilty and the 'evidence' against Winter is pretty lightweight imo. Feels a little bit like TL has given in to the pitchfork crowd because they don't want the drama. Fair enough I suppose, but it's a bit sad Edit - Added sadface
lightweight? well, it is definite proof of viewbotting and raises very reasonable suspicion that it's either Winter himself or a party that wants to help him.
edit: you just posted this:
On March 16 2015 20:39 Mallidon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 20:19 Penev wrote:On March 16 2015 20:17 Mallidon wrote:On March 16 2015 16:17 InDLegacy wrote:
Oh please. Let me point out what this is really all about. This is about TL trying to avoid any of this drama. There are trolls all over Twitch and Reddit looking to create drama anywhere and everywhere Winter is advertised, and TL doesn't want any of it. If you honestly expect any rational person to accept that you can't gauge if Winter meets your 100-150 viewer requirement, viewbots or not, then you are trying too hard to come up with excuses. You can already look up stats on his subs, being way over that amount (Over 600).
Avilo has had an obsessive attitude towards Winter for a long time now. The kind that borders stalking. This is why any mention of his name warrants a time out in Winter's chat. I looked through that reddit post. I saw the proof. I agree that there has undoubtedly been viewbots on Winter's channel. Yet some of those "suspicious" accounts Avilo cites follow typical stupid naming schemes people have been using for decades now. Really? We're to suspect xxCloudUchihaxxk because his name is dumb and he is only following Winter?
There is only one party that can determine if Winter is at fault here. That is Twitch. All Twitch has done thus far is work with Winter to take measures to stop his channel from getting viewbot traffic. They have in the past banned streamers for viewboting. Yet here they haven't. I'm sorry but you can't just point out "Twitch is doing nothing about it" like they are simply choosing not to.
For anyone else, the burden of proof is on the accuser. The evidence Avilo presented is not good enough to determine if Winter backed those bots.
All being said. Winter HAS helped the Sc2 community. His viewership is the only way SC2 hits the top streamed games list when there are no professional games being streamed. For TL to take a stance like this so publicly, I can only find it disrespectful. Sums my thoughts up pretty well. Innocent until proven guilty and the 'evidence' against Winter is pretty lightweight imo. Feels a little bit like TL has given in to the pitchfork crowd because they don't want the drama. Fair enough I suppose, but it's a bit sad Edit - Added sadface Please sum up the evidence for me, I'm curious Highlights for me: ''Most if not all of these should be connected to viewbotting. I apologize if an account has been listed that is innocent.'' ''NOTE: There are several accounts not listed here in these newer screencaps I suspect to be bots.'' ''Previous banned viewbotter EggYSC2.'' Full of opinion and jumping to conclusions with no hard evidence. He even states some of these accounts might be 'innocent' but still lists them. Listing a new account of this Heroes of the Storm Eggy guy playing poker just because he previously used viewbots for Heroes and has apparently apologised for his behaviour and had his old account banned. Would be pretty stupid to start up viewbotting again then, but he's listed again as a 'suspected viewbotter' with absolutely no proof that he is doing so on his new account. Basically, if you want to bring hard evidence on people, don't go throwing in ANYTHING that you personally suspect as a viewbotter, because it dilutes your entire argument (or at least it should). Pretty much like in a criminal court where certain charges cannot be proved, so only the ones that can be proved will be brought to ensure a conviction.
I was unsure about the suspected viewbot accounts as well. However, I looked through the suspected twitch profiles given in the post and they all have 0 videos online (even so many of the descriptions state: streamer), they have the same name patterns, they follow the same 2 channels and the descriptions sometimes have weird characters in them that usually appear when software fails to properly read out data.
|
On March 16 2015 20:39 Mallidon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 20:19 Penev wrote:On March 16 2015 20:17 Mallidon wrote:On March 16 2015 16:17 InDLegacy wrote:
Oh please. Let me point out what this is really all about. This is about TL trying to avoid any of this drama. There are trolls all over Twitch and Reddit looking to create drama anywhere and everywhere Winter is advertised, and TL doesn't want any of it. If you honestly expect any rational person to accept that you can't gauge if Winter meets your 100-150 viewer requirement, viewbots or not, then you are trying too hard to come up with excuses. You can already look up stats on his subs, being way over that amount (Over 600).
Avilo has had an obsessive attitude towards Winter for a long time now. The kind that borders stalking. This is why any mention of his name warrants a time out in Winter's chat. I looked through that reddit post. I saw the proof. I agree that there has undoubtedly been viewbots on Winter's channel. Yet some of those "suspicious" accounts Avilo cites follow typical stupid naming schemes people have been using for decades now. Really? We're to suspect xxCloudUchihaxxk because his name is dumb and he is only following Winter?
There is only one party that can determine if Winter is at fault here. That is Twitch. All Twitch has done thus far is work with Winter to take measures to stop his channel from getting viewbot traffic. They have in the past banned streamers for viewboting. Yet here they haven't. I'm sorry but you can't just point out "Twitch is doing nothing about it" like they are simply choosing not to.
For anyone else, the burden of proof is on the accuser. The evidence Avilo presented is not good enough to determine if Winter backed those bots.
All being said. Winter HAS helped the Sc2 community. His viewership is the only way SC2 hits the top streamed games list when there are no professional games being streamed. For TL to take a stance like this so publicly, I can only find it disrespectful. Sums my thoughts up pretty well. Innocent until proven guilty and the 'evidence' against Winter is pretty lightweight imo. Feels a little bit like TL has given in to the pitchfork crowd because they don't want the drama. Fair enough I suppose, but it's a bit sad Edit - Added sadface Please sum up the evidence for me, I'm curious Highlights for me: ''Most if not all of these should be connected to viewbotting. I apologize if an account has been listed that is innocent.'' ''NOTE: There are several accounts not listed here in these newer screencaps I suspect to be bots.'' ''Previous banned viewbotter EggYSC2.'' Full of opinion and jumping to conclusions with no hard evidence. He even states some of these accounts might be 'innocent' but still lists them. Listing a new account of this Heroes of the Storm Eggy guy playing poker just because he previously used viewbots for Heroes and has apparently apologised for his behaviour and had his old account banned. Would be pretty stupid to start up viewbotting again then, but he's listed again as a 'suspected viewbotter' with absolutely no proof that he is doing so on his new account. Basically, if you want to bring hard evidence on people, don't go throwing in ANYTHING that you personally suspect as a viewbotter, because it dilutes your entire argument (or at least it should). Pretty much like in a criminal court where certain charges cannot be proved, so only the ones that can be proved will be brought to ensure a conviction.
I think you missed some things. First of all: Winter already admitted his stream had viewbots, he just denied that it was him that did the viewbotting. This, however, suggests he's lying:
The full evidence compilation has a text file that has my completed viewbotter research, along with snippits from my IRC chat log (as well as the log file itself) from Winter's channel as he was alledgely being DDOS'ed. Viewbots were leaving in a mass exodus. Why would viewbots be leaving when Winter's internet is failing? Could it be that it's his internet that is running said bots?
Also, It's highly unlikely that someone would pay a lot of money to do this to (or for without him knowing)) Winter just because..
Another thing is the very uncommon chat/ viewercount ratio.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
