EPTTime to bust out eclipse and get to work on my own bot!
+ Show Spoiler +
That is infact a joke.
Revised Featured Stream Requirements for 2015 - Page 9
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Detri
United Kingdom683 Posts
Time to bust out eclipse and get to work on my own bot! + Show Spoiler + That is infact a joke. | ||
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
On March 16 2015 21:41 ETisME wrote: So the most solid evidence we have that winter actually viewbot himself is that his viewers drop when his internet fails and when this gets blown up? Given the fact that someone can viewbot someone else, it isn't that crazy to think that someone can also control when to stop the viewbot. I am also concerned how these viewbots work, can't it be ran by a script that is planted on his computer? I don't want to post any links to such sites on teamliquid.net, but a quick google search for "twitch view botting" will tell you everything you need to know. There are multiple different options out there. This one site (not gonna link it) charges $99/month to viewbot a channel for +1k viewers. | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6168 Posts
In any case, TL is not a court. TL is not bound by the law in deciding who they wish to list where. TL and TL policy is solely up to the discretion and decisions of TL Staff. Given the usual moderation policies in use by TL, this kind of post spelling out policy for featured streamers goes above and beyond any "requirement" a reasonable person who's been reading TL for longer than a year or two might expect. Bravo. To add on to that specific reasoning for two different individual decisions is a step even further. TL is an important place to the SC2 community, and I see no issues with them trying to maintain some quality control in their streaming features. If it burns you that they're making policy and enforcing it, might I suggest you go... wait, every single possible alternative site on the internet does the exact same thing. And usually without this much thought and exposition. | ||
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
On March 16 2015 21:45 lichter wrote: As long as they reach Challenger for that season, they will be featured for that season. We will start in season 2. As you can imagine this is all done manually, so we won't be perfect in applying these rules instantly, but we'll do our best. Reminding us helps too :p The viewership just isn't there for other game modes unfortunately. So there's no reason to give those streamer's preferential treatment. I grew up playing BGH in BW so I'm definitely not against other game modes. But the numbers need to be there. That's too bad :/ Understandable though. Hopefully SC2 will get more viewers with the release of LotV. And this conversation about BGH and Fastest got me thinking about the old Team Melee game format. Someone needs to make some Team Melee maps, and bring back the old each-race-has-separate-supply mechanic for it so we can get some 600vs600 supply battles going on. | ||
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shin ken
Germany612 Posts
On March 16 2015 21:55 codonbyte wrote: That's too bad :/ Understandable though. Hopefully SC2 will get more viewers with the release of LotV. And this conversation about BGH and Fastest got me thinking about the old Team Melee game format. Someone needs to make some Team Melee maps, and bring back the old each-race-has-separate-supply mechanic for it so we can get some 600vs600 supply battles going on. I'm very much looking forward to archon mode streams in LotV! As the mode encourages communication it should naturally make exciting streaming material. Maybe it will inflate into an archon mode sub-scene with small tournaments :D | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
damage has been done :< | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
On March 16 2015 16:23 feardragon wrote: I wanted to recommend PiLiPiLi as a streamer to be featured. He's a pretty high ranked GM Protoss that is very active as both a player in tournaments, as well as a streamer. He almost always has a fair viewerbase of at least 100 after streaming for a bit and provides some good commentary with a really fun playstyle. I think he fits the criteria of a quality streamer because of this and his very heavy viewer interaction. He's a hard worker and I think he's definitely worth featuring. http://www.twitch.tv/pilipili96 On March 16 2015 17:41 -Kyo- wrote: Also, I forgot to mention in my other post but it's awesome the new requirements for the feature. It'd be good to see some people like pili or otherwise start getting up there. They've been streaming top 10-40 GM gameplay for quite some time and have slowly been building up a viewerbase. It'd be cool to see them get some more support in the community. yes please. probably the most consistent semi-pro protoss streamer now that minigun is gone. he recently beat huk 3-2 in showmatch and 2-0 in desrow cup too!!! | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On March 16 2015 16:00 looknohands119 wrote: I'm very disappointed. You should know better. my sides | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12221 Posts
On a sidenote there's something to be said about avilo and "hate speech" and "general assholery" rules | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On March 16 2015 22:24 Nebuchad wrote: I'm kind of annoyed with this thread, I have trouble explaining why. It just feels like it's a showdown between Winter and avilo, even though it's officially not, and I can't help but be on Winter's side. On a sidenote there's something to be said about avilo and "hate speech" and "general assholery" rules Most of this thread is basically what would have happened if these threads wouldn't have been closed. | ||
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EmoryToss17
United States10 Posts
Asserting that TL hasn't met the burden of proof that Winter actually used bots, is like asserting that a bird didn't fly into my house and drop a million dollars into my bedroom the day after the local bank was robbed. Prove it didn't happen! | ||
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InDLegacy
26 Posts
On March 16 2015 21:52 felisconcolori wrote: Lots of low-post count people involved in the discussion. Always makes me wonder in a discussion like this one which has the potential to summon dramathurges. In any case, TL is not a court. TL is not bound by the law in deciding who they wish to list where. TL and TL policy is solely up to the discretion and decisions of TL Staff. Given the usual moderation policies in use by TL, this kind of post spelling out policy for featured streamers goes above and beyond any "requirement" a reasonable person who's been reading TL for longer than a year or two might expect. Bravo. To add on to that specific reasoning for two different individual decisions is a step even further. TL is an important place to the SC2 community, and I see no issues with them trying to maintain some quality control in their streaming features. If it burns you that they're making policy and enforcing it, might I suggest you go... wait, every single possible alternative site on the internet does the exact same thing. And usually without this much thought and exposition. Not every site casts a guilty verdict in this context. Even though a lot of Winter supporters are replying to this thread questioning or disagreeing with the decision to unfeature Winter, I personally don't. I'm saying this having clearly been in support of Winter, even passionate as I'm sure has been obvious. You say TL is not a court. But I ask you to reread the statement given by TL in regards to their decision to unfeature him. "Similarly, the situation right now is another instance when someone with malicious intent would attempt to amplify the strength of the accusations against Winter. As such we conclude that the extensive history of Winter viewbotting is inconsistent with a third party doing this with malicious intent." First, they make an assumption based on what they are considering common sense. How can anyone assume why someone would viewbot a channel maliciously or not? Saying that such a person would keep the viewbots up when there is attention, the malicious intent would make more sense? Yet what if their line of thinking is that after an accusation is made, and a stream is suddenly dropped 1000 average viewers, that it looks more incriminating to them? There certainly have been many people who have pointed out there are far fewer viewers on average now viewing the stream. Those people saying it is because 'Winter turned them off due to the allegations'. Honestly? The version I just presented sounds silly. Just as silly as TL's assumption. Relating your value of money to the context is wrong as well. People have blown millions of dollars for far more trivial reasons. Then they make the claim that in the 'scenario' where a viewer paid for the viewbots with or without Winter's knowledge still makes him a benefactor should make more sense. TL isn't a court. Yet here it is reviewing evidence and judging a stronger possibility based on personal interpretation of evidence. Telling your community "WE'RE PRETTY SURE HE KNEW WHAT WAS UP" is judgement. The kind that sticks to a person forever when it comes from a website so central to the community. This IS a verdict. One that will forever be cited by anyone with an aim to troll or disrupt. It is ammunition. TL should have taken a back seat. They should remove Winter from the featured list. Even if they decided to remove him forever, simply due to how any possible factor of viewbots could always interfere with the conditions for being featured. It just should have stopped with the decision to remove Winter from the list, without this evidence review and interpretation. The fact that they are giving him a chance for review in six months is... nice? Anyone who supports Winter will consider it fair or be happy with it. Others will find it odd that you chose to damn someone then put them up for review. At the end of the day. When Winter found out he was removed, he only had one thing to say about it before starting his next game on stream. "I'm no longer featured on teamliquid? That's ok, I can understand their decision." | ||
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
On March 16 2015 22:24 Nebuchad wrote: I'm kind of annoyed with this thread, I have trouble explaining why. It just feels like it's a showdown between Winter and avilo, even though it's officially not, and I can't help but be on Winter's side. On a sidenote there's something to be said about avilo and "hate speech" and "general assholery" rules This thread had nothing to do with winter-vs-avilo except for that one guy who tried to derail it early on. Since you bring up Avilo in the context of the new streaming guidelines, I'd be interested to know what he's said that you think qualifies as hate-speech. On March 16 2015 22:06 shin ken wrote: I'm very much looking forward to archon mode streams in LotV! As the mode encourages communication it should naturally make exciting streaming material. Maybe it will inflate into an archon mode sub-scene with small tournaments :D Damn, I gotta make a mental note to look up what archon mode actually does. Everyone seems to be pretty pumped about it :D | ||
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ETisME
12469 Posts
On March 16 2015 21:49 codonbyte wrote: I don't want to post any links to such sites on teamliquid.net, but a quick google search for "twitch view botting" will tell you everything you need to know. There are multiple different options out there. This one site (not gonna link it) charges $99/month to viewbot a channel for +1k viewers. I have some info about those, but assuming he only paid 1K bots, that is still $99/month, I am fairly sure with 1K viewers the ad return won't be nearly enough to cover the cost. At the end he still has to rely on actual donation and sub, right? Yes he succeeded with it (if he really did viewbot himself) but that all looks like a huge gamble to me. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On March 16 2015 22:32 InDLegacy wrote: + Show Spoiler + Not every site casts a guilty verdict in this context. Even though a lot of Winter supporters are replying to this thread questioning or disagreeing with the decision to unfeature Winter, I personally don't. I'm saying this having clearly been in support of Winter, even passionate as I'm sure has been obvious. You say TL is not a court. But I ask you to reread the statement given by TL in regards to their decision to unfeature him. "Similarly, the situation right now is another instance when someone with malicious intent would attempt to amplify the strength of the accusations against Winter. As such we conclude that the extensive history of Winter viewbotting is inconsistent with a third party doing this with malicious intent." First, they make an assumption based on what they are considering common sense. How can anyone assume why someone would viewbot a channel maliciously or not? Saying that such a person would keep the viewbots up when there is attention, the malicious intent would make more sense? Yet what if their line of thinking is that after an accusation is made, and a stream is suddenly dropped 1000 average viewers, that it looks more incriminating to them? There certainly have been many people who have pointed out there are far fewer viewers on average now viewing the stream. Those people saying it is because 'Winter turned them off due to the allegations'. Honestly? The version I just presented sounds silly. Just as silly as TL's assumption. Relating your value of money to the context is wrong as well. People have blown millions of dollars for far more trivial reasons. Then they make the claim that in the 'scenario' where a viewer paid for the viewbots with or without Winter's knowledge still makes him a benefactor should make more sense. TL isn't a court. Yet here it is reviewing evidence and judging a stronger possibility based on personal interpretation of evidence. Telling your community "WE'RE PRETTY SURE HE KNEW WHAT WAS UP" is judgement. The kind that sticks to a person forever when it comes from a website so central to the community. This IS a verdict. One that will forever be cited by anyone with an aim to troll or disrupt. It is ammunition. TL should have taken a back seat. They should remove Winter from the featured list. Even if they decided to remove him forever, simply due to how any possible factor of viewbots could always interfere with the conditions for being featured. It just should have stopped with the decision to remove Winter from the list, without this evidence review and interpretation. The fact that they are giving him a chance for review in six months is... nice? Anyone who supports Winter will consider it fair or be happy with it. Others will find it odd that you chose to damn someone then put them up for review. At the end of the day. When Winter found out he was removed, he only had one thing to say about it before starting his next game on stream. "I'm no longer featured on teamliquid? That's ok, I can understand their decision." Dude, I think you forgot something. 1. This is our house. The fact that the OP looks like a judgement is irrelevant. You should probably consider it good enough that they give such a lenghty justification for removing Winter. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
use any robot, spider, scraper, crawler or other automated means to access the Twitch Service for any purpose or bypass any measures Twitch may use to prevent or restrict access to the Twitch Service; | ||
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Penev
28482 Posts
On March 16 2015 22:24 Nebuchad wrote: I'm kind of annoyed with this thread, I have trouble explaining why. It just feels like it's a showdown between Winter and avilo, even though it's officially not, and I can't help but be on Winter's side. On a sidenote there's something to be said about avilo and "hate speech" and "general assholery" rules There has been very little of that imo, I personally don't care for either one of them. Strange also to first condemn the polarization you think is present by actively engaging in it? :-S I suggest you read the full content of the linked reddit post and try to objectively form your opinion. It seems pretty clear to me | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
On March 16 2015 22:43 ETisME wrote: I have some info about those, but assuming he only paid 1K bots, that is still $99/month, I am fairly sure with 1K viewers the ad return won't be nearly enough to cover the cost. At the end he still has to rely on actual donation and sub, right? Yes he succeeded with it (if he really did viewbot himself) but that all looks like a huge gamble to me. Bots don't watch ads I think On March 16 2015 22:39 codonbyte wrote: Damn, I gotta make a mental note to look up what archon mode actually does. Everyone seems to be pretty pumped about it :D Winter/Avilo Archon for maximum drama! | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6168 Posts
On March 16 2015 22:32 InDLegacy wrote: Not every site casts a guilty verdict in this context. Even though a lot of Winter supporters are replying to this thread questioning or disagreeing with the decision to unfeature Winter, I personally don't. I'm saying this having clearly been in support of Winter, even passionate as I'm sure has been obvious. [other unrelated things] My post wasn't saying that all sites are stating an opinion (and it is an opinion) on the matter. My post was stating that every site on the internet works in the same way - the people running it make the decision, and are beholden only to themselves. The people behind TL made their decision. They then went a step further and explained the basis for their decision. They did so in a reasonable manner, and their reasoning is much less specious and more well founded than some decisions which, in a legal context, have nailed large companies with millions of dollars of fines under the "preponderance of the evidence" standard. Coming from a site that regularly takes action against individuals on the basis of such well defined and objective standards as "shitposting", this is going above and beyond to a degree that you don't usually see. Their rationale in the specific explanation is sound, and it went on further to be applied beyond the individual case. It is applied consistently. + Show Spoiler + Also, you might do better posting your opinions under your actual TL name. Just a thought. Yes, this is complete conjecture. Yes, I could be wrong. No, I don't really care if I am or not. | ||
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
On March 16 2015 22:43 ETisME wrote: I have some info about those, but assuming he only paid 1K bots, that is still $99/month, I am fairly sure with 1K viewers the ad return won't be nearly enough to cover the cost. At the end he still has to rely on actual donation and sub, right? Yes he succeeded with it (if he really did viewbot himself) but that all looks like a huge gamble to me. I'm 99% sure that viewbots don't generate ad revenue. If they did, then that really would be trouble for twitch and for esports in general, because nobody would want to buy ads if they risk being charged for impressions given to bots. I seem to recall hearing somewhere that ad impressions are counted not when the viewer loads the channel but when the ad itself actually starts streaming. Obviously it would be fabulously expensive to buy the bandwidth needed to stream ads to thousands of bots for a month. Would cost way more than $99/month imo. The way viewbots make money is by bumping your stream up to the top of the page, which gives you more exposure resulting in you getting more real human viewers. I'm guessing he didn't buy 1k bots right off the bat (hell, I KNOW he didn't because I used to watch his stream, eons ago when he only had about 200 viewers). Honestly I don't know if he was viewbotting back then, but if he was he probably just bought like 50-100 or so, enough to bring him up from the very bottom of the page but still easily affordable and not too conspicuous. | ||
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), but I have a little comment on the requirements:
