At the end of 2014, Blizzard announced a change to their WCS system which would highly restrict the players eligible to participate in their non-Korean WCS events. Now, barring exceptional circumstances, you pretty much have to be white in order to compete in this event.
Now when games are being played, we can see that a lot more fan favourites, such as TLO and MaNa, are able to advance further and more easily in these tournaments due to lesser competition.
This is great and all, but there is an issue where casters and fans start calling these players "good" or "awesome" or "outstanding". However, this is not the case because we know that these players would most likely not have the same success if they had to compete against players wielding the Korean flag. In my opinion it is extremely unfair and borderline offensive to the top Korean players that these foreign hopes are considered to be "good players" when they are clearly not on the same level. WCS Premier is not the same calibre as GSL or NSSL, so those players should be held in a lesser regard.
One video that discusses a lot of this issue is here:
Unfortunately I completely agree with this. Even if foreigners make it to Blizzcon or compete against good Koreans in weekend tournaments, the majority of them don't stand a chance. Getting WCS Premier Round of 4 will mean nothing if they can't beat someone like Parting or ForGG.
Alright, let me say my two cents. You stated the following:
"This is great and all, but there is an issue where casters and fans start calling these players "good" or "awesome" or "outstanding". However, this is not the case because we know that these players would most likely not have the same success if they had to compete against players wielding the Korean flag."
The problem with this argument is that in suggests that to be good one must be able to go toe to toe with the top Koreans. This is not a fair judgement at all, especially since these foreigners are amazing at the game compared to people who do not play competitively. They are even quite close competitively with Koreans at times. When we say "Wow that guy is great!" in WCS it is true that that doesn't mean they can beat top Koreans necessarily, but it does mean they are consistently dominant in WCS against their peers. That means that we absolutely can call them good, amazing, etc.
Even though the skill level overall is lower in WCS premiere as last year, it is very good for the scene and it hopefully will give foreigners the drive to put in the hours and the mental effort to become as good as the oh so highly acclaimed Korean players. The reason that the Koreans got so far ahead was that they had their own leagues with easier guarantees of money, giving more incentive to truly dedicate oneself to the game. With a similar set up in the foreign scene, one day soon we might see more than 3 foreigners who can hold their own at GSL level.
Overall I am very glad for the harder region locks as it lets me cheer on my favorite players and it gives them reason to keep playing the game. If blizzard took it any farther and gave out seeds to certain fan favorites in order to keep it interesting then I would be worried.
You do realize that being a top 16 player out of the americas, China, australia and EU fits into most people definition of good, outstanding and awesome.
It is up to each individual person to set their own definition of what good is, this is not objective...
This is so very patronizing. They are far better than a vast majority of SC2 players, and thus should be considered good. A lot of Korean pros are better, some outstanding, the world elite, godlike if you want to go that far. But this should not be used as an argument to degrade players of this quality. Nevermind that there are players in WCS Premier who are on the same level as many Koreans, i.e. Liquid's own Snute and Bunny who have taken games and even series against Korean players. Naniwa was, in his prime, more successful than many Koreans. Saying that these people aren't good is beyond "borderline offensive".
Giving it a bit more thought, I think the OP is saying that most Koreans are basically confined to Korea now and it is very unfair to them because the talent level is too damn high there. It's like the GSL from before. One season we might have Parting. Next we'll have Life. Then another we'll have Mvp. If Koreans are looking to attend Blizzcon and gain points solely by playing in GSL and Starleague in Korea, I think it is safe to say we won't see many Koreans at Blizzcon.
The OP is ridiculous. You realize you're arguing over the mere usage of the words "good" or "awesome"?
I guess by that reasoning players playing in a sports league other than the BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD should not be referred to by announcers in any positive way? Japanese baseball fans are now forbidden to refer to players playing in the Japanese baseball league as "good" because they're not good enough to play in the American leagues?
Trust me, everyone who knows anything about SC2 knows TLO and MaNa are not quite as good as Life and Rain. To suggest that this should somehow restrict people's ability to give them credit for strong play is asinine.
Of course they are good. A few Koreans might be so much better that the WCS guys won't win consistently against them. But that doesn't make them bad. We aren't at that point of skill difference like BW had, were players were considered good for someone outside of Korea. We are getting there though thanks to the new WCS system. As competition is less fierce now in the international scene, while Korea will be a Battle Royal this year.
And even if it comes to this,they will still be good
I don't think anyone is arguing that most of the wcs players are quite on the same level as say Life or Maru, although "good" doesn't have to mean "one of the top 5 players in the world" or anything like that..
1. There are a lot of Starcraft 2 players out there. If you're among the top couple hundred then I'd say that you are pretty darn good.
2. Matches don't need to be between "the very best players in the world" to be fun to watch. In fact many of the most exciting, back and forth games out there involve players that make do mistakes and aren't very predictable, or are upsets where an underdog gets lucky and does manage to somehow get a win.
well i half way typed up a logical argument with reasons and then remembered this is the internet so there is absolutely no point to doing so. Concept behind this thread is wrong and if OP wants to watch top koreans battle it out there is GSL and pro league for exactly that and if they hate casters saying foreigners are good then don't watch. Why do you even want to watch players that you think are only okay at best? That makes no logical sense
A 16 year old kid can be a good basketball player in his high school league. It's not wrong to call him that, since he is one of the best in his league and shows a great performance. Nobody will think calling him good means that he can beat NBA players.
If the casters say something like "best of the world" or "greatest of all time" I tend to agree with you. But saying you can't call WCS Premiere League players good is ridiculous. Every GM player is good. WCS Premiere League players are extremely good.
I dont really understand one thing though. A lot of foreigners are not as good as the top tier koreans. But a lot of koreans are not nearly as good as top tier koreans either though they still get to play in the same NSSL and GSL (or SPL) as these toptiers. Looking at the top foreigner team in Snute, Naniwa, Stephano and IdrA (back in the day) but even Scarlett and Grubby to some extend (and a lot more, cba to list them all) they can be considered to be atleast on par with the semi-top koreans (think of Trap, Hurricane, Sleep, Action etc). No they won't break through at the top-tier-korean level (yet?) but they do really well so far.
I do like WCS in its current form, however the system needs to filter a bit more. Noobs out, good people in. That is what will happen in the next few seasons (I hope), same goes for NSSL to some extend as well.
I see where OP is going with this, being bitter that Koreans have basically been forced back to Korea because they dominated all the WCS leagues last year. But I think it is condescending to say that foreign players doing well in Premier league are "not good" or less than top tier. They earned their spots and the level of competition has been strong. YoDa and Soulkey are probably better than Jim and Kelazhur, but not THAT much better and certainly not "they don't deserve to be in the same tournament" better like OP seems to imply.
On February 20 2015 10:14 geokilla wrote: Unfortunately I completely agree with this. Even if foreigners make it to Blizzcon or compete against good Koreans in weekend tournaments, the majority of them don't stand a chance. Getting WCS Premier Round of 4 will mean nothing if they can't beat someone like Parting or ForGG.
Five years after the game came out, we're still stuck with "AMAZING STORMS!!!"
Calling TLO a great player doesn't even register as a blip on the radar of "goofy and not entirely accurate things casters say all the time" by comparison.
EPT
