On February 04 2015 23:33 Big J wrote: wait, why are people voting group D? Parting is probably the worst Protoss that qualified for ro16, apart from MC who is a big questionmark, Maru is slumping and herO struggles with individual leagues and PvP. Fame =/= Best
PartinG is the third Protoss in the RO16, behind Rain and herO. Maru slumping? What is your evidence for that?
I think PartinG is overrated these days. He is a top Protoss, but he is consitently failing unless there is really hardly any competition likein that thing he barely won over Flash. And for Maru, he is obviously good, but I wouldn't rate him over others like Ty or Cure recently and of course behind Innovation.
Lots of people bashing me for this, TT. My point was mainly that I don't think the group is stronger than the other ones (like Innovation+Dark in one group could be really sick). All of the players in group D have huge names but none of them are at their heights, while other groups actually contain the big tournament favorites like Innovation and Life.
Hehe don't feel that i (we) bashed you, people just like to argue about these things here I still think you are wrong though, haha. Maru is really solid, 70% winrate in the last 70 games. Parting looks pretty good too imo. he only lost 4 matches in the last 19 (since the beginning of the year).
Haha, yeah, bashing is probably too strong of a word. Was in a hurry and my English doesn't allow for well articulated grey areas, lol. Maru has been getting better lately and could possibly get back to championship quality. But I'm not utterly impressed by his TvT and never really thought his TvZ was that great (for what we expect of a champion that is of course). Parting is usually a lot better in weekend tournaments and has been said to be a top GSL contender with championship quality since late 2011, but never delivered. And his playstyle is way too gimmicky to beat the best-of-the-best in multiple longer series. At some point probability just strikes against you if you rely too much on chance-based play and then there is nothing that can safe you.
Meanwhile in the other groups I think there are quite some players on a level or above the 4ones here. To compare as an example: group A. MMA I'd rate like MC, hard to really classify but probably even a tiny bit better if we go from his performances in WCS EU and Blizzcon. Innovation is just better than everyone from group D. Dark is said to be like the best Zerg in Korea atm, and though I'd say he is overhyped, he is at a personal height right now and Terminator was looking pretty good and made it into the Ro16 of both leagues, only barely losing out on a quarterfinal spot in NSSL.
Hm i guess we have to agree to disagree then. I just don't see Terminator or MMA at the lvl of Parting/Maru/herO I actually think Maru, Parting and herO all could be in the finals of the GSL, i don't think MMA or Terminator could do that though. In Group B i can see Life and Soulkey (to a lesser extent) In Group C only Rain really (maybe Rogue) Maybe i am wrong and overvalue these three, but imo they are all very solid and capable of beating anyone if they are in form on that day (and the recent stats seem to agree with me. So yeah, we will see i guess, i wouldn't be surprised if the two who get out of group D would make it far this season though, even against Life/Innovation
On February 04 2015 23:33 Big J wrote: wait, why are people voting group D? Parting is probably the worst Protoss that qualified for ro16, apart from MC who is a big questionmark, Maru is slumping and herO struggles with individual leagues and PvP. Fame =/= Best
PartinG is the third Protoss in the RO16, behind Rain and herO. Maru slumping? What is your evidence for that?
I think PartinG is overrated these days. He is a top Protoss, but he is consitently failing unless there is really hardly any competition likein that thing he barely won over Flash. And for Maru, he is obviously good, but I wouldn't rate him over others like Ty or Cure recently and of course behind Innovation.
Lots of people bashing me for this, TT. My point was mainly that I don't think the group is stronger than the other ones (like Innovation+Dark in one group could be really sick). All of the players in group D have huge names but none of them are at their heights, while other groups actually contain the big tournament favorites like Innovation and Life.
Hehe don't feel that i (we) bashed you, people just like to argue about these things here I still think you are wrong though, haha. Maru is really solid, 70% winrate in the last 70 games. Parting looks pretty good too imo. he only lost 4 matches in the last 19 (since the beginning of the year).
Haha, yeah, bashing is probably too strong of a word. Was in a hurry and my English doesn't allow for well articulated grey areas, lol. Maru has been getting better lately and could possibly get back to championship quality. But I'm not utterly impressed by his TvT and never really thought his TvZ was that great (for what we expect of a champion that is of course). Parting is usually a lot better in weekend tournaments and has been said to be a top GSL contender with championship quality since late 2011, but never delivered. And his playstyle is way too gimmicky to beat the best-of-the-best in multiple longer series. At some point probability just strikes against you if you rely too much on chance-based play and then there is nothing that can safe you.
Meanwhile in the other groups I think there are quite some players on a level or above the 4ones here. To compare as an example: group A. MMA I'd rate like MC, hard to really classify but probably even a tiny bit better if we go from his performances in WCS EU and Blizzcon. Innovation is just better than everyone from group D. Dark is said to be like the best Zerg in Korea atm, and though I'd say he is overhyped, he is at a personal height right now and Terminator was looking pretty good and made it into the Ro16 of both leagues, only barely losing out on a quarterfinal spot in NSSL.
Hm i guess we have to agree to disagree then. I just don't see Terminator or MMA at the lvl of Parting/Maru/herO I actually think Maru, Parting and herO all could be in the finals of the GSL, i don't think MMA or Terminator could do that though. In Group B i can see Life and Soulkey (to a lesser extent) In Group C only Rain really (maybe Rogue) Maybe i am wrong and overvalue these three, but imo they are all very solid and capable of beating anyone if they are in form on that day (and the recent stats seem to agree with me. So yeah, we will see i guess, i wouldn't be surprised if the two who get out of group D would make it far this season though, even against Life/Innovation
Innovation's gonna win it anyways, so it's moot to argue about the other guys.
On February 04 2015 23:33 Big J wrote: wait, why are people voting group D? Parting is probably the worst Protoss that qualified for ro16, apart from MC who is a big questionmark, Maru is slumping and herO struggles with individual leagues and PvP. Fame =/= Best
PartinG is the third Protoss in the RO16, behind Rain and herO. Maru slumping? What is your evidence for that?
I think PartinG is overrated these days. He is a top Protoss, but he is consitently failing unless there is really hardly any competition likein that thing he barely won over Flash. And for Maru, he is obviously good, but I wouldn't rate him over others like Ty or Cure recently and of course behind Innovation.
Lots of people bashing me for this, TT. My point was mainly that I don't think the group is stronger than the other ones (like Innovation+Dark in one group could be really sick). All of the players in group D have huge names but none of them are at their heights, while other groups actually contain the big tournament favorites like Innovation and Life.
Hehe don't feel that i (we) bashed you, people just like to argue about these things here I still think you are wrong though, haha. Maru is really solid, 70% winrate in the last 70 games. Parting looks pretty good too imo. he only lost 4 matches in the last 19 (since the beginning of the year).
Haha, yeah, bashing is probably too strong of a word. Was in a hurry and my English doesn't allow for well articulated grey areas, lol. Maru has been getting better lately and could possibly get back to championship quality. But I'm not utterly impressed by his TvT and never really thought his TvZ was that great (for what we expect of a champion that is of course). Parting is usually a lot better in weekend tournaments and has been said to be a top GSL contender with championship quality since late 2011, but never delivered. And his playstyle is way too gimmicky to beat the best-of-the-best in multiple longer series. At some point probability just strikes against you if you rely too much on chance-based play and then there is nothing that can safe you.
Meanwhile in the other groups I think there are quite some players on a level or above the 4ones here. To compare as an example: group A. MMA I'd rate like MC, hard to really classify but probably even a tiny bit better if we go from his performances in WCS EU and Blizzcon. Innovation is just better than everyone from group D. Dark is said to be like the best Zerg in Korea atm, and though I'd say he is overhyped, he is at a personal height right now and Terminator was looking pretty good and made it into the Ro16 of both leagues, only barely losing out on a quarterfinal spot in NSSL.
Hm i guess we have to agree to disagree then. I just don't see Terminator or MMA at the lvl of Parting/Maru/herO I actually think Maru, Parting and herO all could be in the finals of the GSL, i don't think MMA or Terminator could do that though. In Group B i can see Life and Soulkey (to a lesser extent) In Group C only Rain really (maybe Rogue) Maybe i am wrong and overvalue these three, but imo they are all very solid and capable of beating anyone if they are in form on that day (and the recent stats seem to agree with me. So yeah, we will see i guess, i wouldn't be surprised if the two who get out of group D would make it far this season though, even against Life/Innovation
Innovation's gonna win it anyways, so it's moot to argue about the other guys.
Haha yeah maybe. Would be kinda cool tbh, back to back GSL champ, the last time that happened was in 2011 (if you don't count the super tournament Polt won)
I think a lot of ppl overrate Innovation a little bit here, calling him to win the GSL. While he's 6-0 in proleague, the opponents weren't really the top of the line. http://aligulac.com/players/48-INnoVation/results/
He beat Hush, Hurricane, Myungsik, TY, Center, and out of form sOs in proleague. That's all, that's nothing to celebrate, and it's understandable considering SKT has a very solid line up. I'd like to see Innovation against the likes of Life, Hero, Maru, Rain or even his teammate Dark.
And since his win in GSL, he's trading even with the likes of Stats, Hero, and sOs. He dropped out of SSL losing to Stats, and lost to sOs in Kespa Cup.
No doubt he's a strong contender, but recent result against other top players has been at the very most questionable.
On February 05 2015 14:34 pichoo wrote: I think a lot of ppl overrate Innovation a little bit here, calling him to win the GSL. While he's 6-0 in proleague, the opponents weren't really the top of the line. http://aligulac.com/players/48-INnoVation/results/
He beat Hush, Hurricane, Myungsik, TY, Center, and out of form sOs in proleague. That's all, that's nothing to celebrate, and it's understandable considering SKT has a very solid line up. I'd like to see Innovation against the likes of Life, Hero, Maru, Rain or even his teammate Dark.
And since his win in GSL, he's trading even with the likes of Stats, Hero, and sOs. He dropped out of SSL losing to Stats, and lost to sOs in Kespa Cup.
No doubt he's a strong contender, but recent result against other top players has been at the very most questionable.
INoVation isn't invincible, but beating TY is nothing to scoff at. I'm pretty sure that TY had the best TvT winrate in 2013 in PL. And if you've been following Inno, you should know that a spotless record in BO1s against a slew of cheesy mid-tier Korean Protosses is hugely telling. It's exactly the opposite of what you'd have expected in 2014.
Could Dark beat INnoVation and advance in first place? Absolutely.
On February 05 2015 14:34 pichoo wrote: I think a lot of ppl overrate Innovation a little bit here, calling him to win the GSL. While he's 6-0 in proleague, the opponents weren't really the top of the line. http://aligulac.com/players/48-INnoVation/results/
He beat Hush, Hurricane, Myungsik, TY, Center, and out of form sOs in proleague. That's all, that's nothing to celebrate, and it's understandable considering SKT has a very solid line up. I'd like to see Innovation against the likes of Life, Hero, Maru, Rain or even his teammate Dark.
And since his win in GSL, he's trading even with the likes of Stats, Hero, and sOs. He dropped out of SSL losing to Stats, and lost to sOs in Kespa Cup.
No doubt he's a strong contender, but recent result against other top players has been at the very most questionable.
I mean he also ran through Cure, MMA, and Classic in the IEM qualifiers, but that's besides the point. Yeah sure, there's a fair amount of people that could totally take him out. Still, when you weigh everything together, I'd say only Life should be ranked ahead of him as the most likely candidate to win this season.
It's not just that he's simply the defending champ. Nor that he's 6-0 in SPL. He has a history of great consistency in the gsl and is arguably the strongest mechanical player there is. Even after Zest's 2014, I'd say Bogus is the best Kespa player to switch over.
On February 04 2015 23:33 Big J wrote: wait, why are people voting group D? Parting is probably the worst Protoss that qualified for ro16, apart from MC who is a big questionmark, Maru is slumping and herO struggles with individual leagues and PvP. Fame =/= Best
PartinG is the third Protoss in the RO16, behind Rain and herO. Maru slumping? What is your evidence for that?
I think PartinG is overrated these days. He is a top Protoss, but he is consitently failing unless there is really hardly any competition likein that thing he barely won over Flash. And for Maru, he is obviously good, but I wouldn't rate him over others like Ty or Cure recently and of course behind Innovation.
Lots of people bashing me for this, TT. My point was mainly that I don't think the group is stronger than the other ones (like Innovation+Dark in one group could be really sick). All of the players in group D have huge names but none of them are at their heights, while other groups actually contain the big tournament favorites like Innovation and Life.
Hehe don't feel that i (we) bashed you, people just like to argue about these things here I still think you are wrong though, haha. Maru is really solid, 70% winrate in the last 70 games. Parting looks pretty good too imo. he only lost 4 matches in the last 19 (since the beginning of the year).
Haha, yeah, bashing is probably too strong of a word. Was in a hurry and my English doesn't allow for well articulated grey areas, lol. Maru has been getting better lately and could possibly get back to championship quality. But I'm not utterly impressed by his TvT and never really thought his TvZ was that great (for what we expect of a champion that is of course). Parting is usually a lot better in weekend tournaments and has been said to be a top GSL contender with championship quality since late 2011, but never delivered. And his playstyle is way too gimmicky to beat the best-of-the-best in multiple longer series. At some point probability just strikes against you if you rely too much on chance-based play and then there is nothing that can safe you.
Meanwhile in the other groups I think there are quite some players on a level or above the 4ones here. To compare as an example: group A. MMA I'd rate like MC, hard to really classify but probably even a tiny bit better if we go from his performances in WCS EU and Blizzcon. Innovation is just better than everyone from group D. Dark is said to be like the best Zerg in Korea atm, and though I'd say he is overhyped, he is at a personal height right now and Terminator was looking pretty good and made it into the Ro16 of both leagues, only barely losing out on a quarterfinal spot in NSSL.
What makes Group D group of death, isn't that there are absolutely best players, but that there are great players with very similar skill level, except MC. But since there are 2 more Protosses in this group, he still has pretty good chance of advancing, through PvP.
MC has no chance of advancing, its not like MC is pvp god in any capacity. Its like saying that Terror has a good chance of taking down Life due to the nature of ZvZ, sure it can happen. Is it likely to happen? Naw not really.
Maru and herO are going to wreck face unless PartinG manages to make the upset happen.
On February 05 2015 23:58 Shuffleblade wrote: MC has no chance of advancing, its not like MC is pvp god in any capacity. Its like saying that Terror has a good chance of taking down Life due to the nature of ZvZ, sure it can happen. Is it likely to happen? Naw not really.
Maru and herO are going to wreck face unless PartinG manages to make the upset happen.
You're greatly underestimating MC here. While TerrOr has a history of not upsetting players considered better than him, MC is the best at being placed in a group with top players and wrecking them.
On February 05 2015 23:58 Shuffleblade wrote: MC has no chance of advancing, its not like MC is pvp god in any capacity. Its like saying that Terror has a good chance of taking down Life due to the nature of ZvZ, sure it can happen. Is it likely to happen? Naw not really.
Maru and herO are going to wreck face unless PartinG manages to make the upset happen.
You're greatly underestimating MC here. While TerrOr has a history of not upsetting players considered better than him, MC is the best at being placed in a group with top players and wrecking them.
I gotta agree with group D not being group of death. A looks much stronger imo.
Also, MC does have a great chance. His PvP is great in ro16 and earlier round results. Ro8 onward, worst PvPer ever. He gets increasingly worse at PvP as he approaches the finals. For now though, he is safe because it's ro16. :D
On February 04 2015 20:57 sharkie wrote: WTF TWO PROTOSS IN HEROS GROUP AND MARU?
Man the SC2 gods really really hate herO
INnoVation hates herO to be more precise
INnoVation is sc2 god. Loigic. If I got it right from the stream, Parting offered to pay dinner or what not to audience voting for Dream to pick herO over Parting. To such length Parting goes to make group of death.
I would say PartinG has the best chance of winning if he can avoid Life, Rogue and Dark and i think Rogue could get knocked out of his group, after seeing Dark in the NSSL I wouldn't give him much of a chance. I think the winner will either be PartinG, Innovation, Dream or Life.
On February 05 2015 07:26 ukiya2004 wrote: MC is going to own the group of death. He almost 3-0ed Hero in Blizzcon if he didn't end up choking in the last 3 matches
I think you might be confusing that series with a different one. It was herO who got to 2 wins first, and the 4th game was the one that MC won really impressively. Nobody choked, it was back and forth.
On February 04 2015 23:33 Big J wrote: wait, why are people voting group D? Parting is probably the worst Protoss that qualified for ro16, apart from MC who is a big questionmark, Maru is slumping and herO struggles with individual leagues and PvP. Fame =/= Best
PartinG is the third Protoss in the RO16, behind Rain and herO. Maru slumping? What is your evidence for that?
I think PartinG is overrated these days. He is a top Protoss, but he is consitently failing unless there is really hardly any competition likein that thing he barely won over Flash. And for Maru, he is obviously good, but I wouldn't rate him over others like Ty or Cure recently and of course behind Innovation.
Lots of people bashing me for this, TT. My point was mainly that I don't think the group is stronger than the other ones (like Innovation+Dark in one group could be really sick). All of the players in group D have huge names but none of them are at their heights, while other groups actually contain the big tournament favorites like Innovation and Life.
Hehe don't feel that i (we) bashed you, people just like to argue about these things here I still think you are wrong though, haha. Maru is really solid, 70% winrate in the last 70 games. Parting looks pretty good too imo. he only lost 4 matches in the last 19 (since the beginning of the year).
Haha, yeah, bashing is probably too strong of a word. Was in a hurry and my English doesn't allow for well articulated grey areas, lol. Maru has been getting better lately and could possibly get back to championship quality. But I'm not utterly impressed by his TvT and never really thought his TvZ was that great (for what we expect of a champion that is of course). Parting is usually a lot better in weekend tournaments and has been said to be a top GSL contender with championship quality since late 2011, but never delivered. And his playstyle is way too gimmicky to beat the best-of-the-best in multiple longer series. At some point probability just strikes against you if you rely too much on chance-based play and then there is nothing that can safe you.
Meanwhile in the other groups I think there are quite some players on a level or above the 4ones here. To compare as an example: group A. MMA I'd rate like MC, hard to really classify but probably even a tiny bit better if we go from his performances in WCS EU and Blizzcon. Innovation is just better than everyone from group D. Dark is said to be like the best Zerg in Korea atm, and though I'd say he is overhyped, he is at a personal height right now and Terminator was looking pretty good and made it into the Ro16 of both leagues, only barely losing out on a quarterfinal spot in NSSL.
Hm i guess we have to agree to disagree then. I just don't see Terminator or MMA at the lvl of Parting/Maru/herO I actually think Maru, Parting and herO all could be in the finals of the GSL, i don't think MMA or Terminator could do that though. In Group B i can see Life and Soulkey (to a lesser extent) In Group C only Rain really (maybe Rogue) Maybe i am wrong and overvalue these three, but imo they are all very solid and capable of beating anyone if they are in form on that day (and the recent stats seem to agree with me. So yeah, we will see i guess, i wouldn't be surprised if the two who get out of group D would make it far this season though, even against Life/Innovation
EPT
