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On February 01 2015 03:19 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 03:10 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:43 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 02:24 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever. Then when he gets smashed by top tier players at other events they completely ignore it and act as if it never happened. It's crazy.
Players like Maru, Innovation and Bomber have performed on much bigger stages and with greater consistency against the top tier players, but don't get anywhere near as much credit. :/ Yeah like when he edged out Zest 3-0, or edged out soO 3-1, or edged out innovation 3-1. Or maybe you are refering to him getting "smashed" by losing 3-2 to Life twice recently (and lets be real, almost everyone is losing to life right now especially in ZvT) in two of the best series of the year. I know what you mean when you say people overlook his losses, but the way you phrase it passes off his multiple tournament wins as "Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up". Aren't you doing the same thing you claim TL writers are doing? Your view comes off just as biased How is this not exactly what I said? He beats one or two top tier players per event. He barely edges it over people to win events i.e. 4-3 vs Solar & losing to Jim at Shenzhen, 3-2 vs Jaedong & losing to Scarlett/MMA at Homestory Cup, not facing any top tier players at Dreamhack Summer, etc. Then at other tournaments he drops games to Leenock (Dreamhack Winter/Taiwan Open), Flash (3-0 at Homestory Cup), Hyun (WCS), Pigbaby (two different WCS events), Dear/Stardust (ASUS ROG), Major/Hyun (WCS). I'm not claiming he's a bad playing, but saying that he's obviously the best terran of 2014 is crazy while completely ignoring that he lost to random players in loads of the events he played in (even one or two that he won). Acting like he was always undefeatable when he won is ridiculous. Claiming I'm doing the same as the writers is silly because I'm not ignoring data, I'm just using all of the data rather than selecting the little amount that proves that the player I like is the best. I'm also not saying anyone is or isn't the best, I'm saying that calling it so clear cut when other players have had much better performances throughout the year is silly and not backed by data. That tournament that he won by only edging out Solar 4-3 he also 3-0d Zest so I would be curious how you would call that edging someone out. Also, what player HASN'T lost to players that they wouldnt expect them too? Part of the reason that sc2 is so great is that no player is immortal or undefeatable. Also, you trying to discredit his tournament wins in foreign tournaments ignores that NO other player has replicated his results in those tournaments. Innovation (who is also a player i like) tried to live that same way when he went to Acer and didn't NEARLY have the same results as Taeja. I agree that best terran is NOT clear cut, but your initial post baisically said he can barley edge out some top players and only beat "bad" foreign players which Taeja has proven not to be true. TLDR The Best Terran 2014 is by no means clear cut, but claiming that Taeja didn't earn a claim to it, or doesn't deserve to be a candidate (you didn't say that but alot of haters do) is completely stupid. Taeja isn't a God who can beat everyone always, but he has proven that he can consistently dominate overseas, and be dangerous to even the best of the best in korea. Come On, Taeja obviously won the most tournaments. For that you just barely need to be able to count. But claiming that he was a better player than Maru and Innovation is just wrong. If that's the argumentation in favor of Taeja, then it would have to be applied for Life+Solar>soO too. Which everyone knows is stupid because 3 GSL finals in a row can basically only be beaten with GSL championships. Which leads back to Innovation who got a GSL championship and Taeja didn't.
If the award was for "who is the best Terran of the last 3 months of 2014" then sure. But Innovation did shit all for the first 3/4 of 2014. Which is also why soO edged out Life. He performed all year, while life got Blizzcon near the end (and that Dreamhack? in the beginning I think.)
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On February 01 2015 03:19 uThermal wrote:
Best Finals
of the Year
Polt vs. HerO
....how? lol
Because it would have been too much if they had nominated HerO for best Korean Protoss.
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On February 01 2015 03:10 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:33 TheDwf wrote:
TaeJa instead of Bogus for the title of best Korean Terran? Muahahaha
Between those two, someone actually won a Code S. And it was not TaeJa.
And why Bomber among the runners-up instead of Maru?? Between those two someone also has 11 championships and it's not Innovation. Why didn't he win any of those foreign international tournaments if they're so easy to achieve? He attempted plenty.
He didn't win them all in 2014, in fact he only won 3 in 2014, 1 being an HSC wich is a heavy invite tournament.
Also why didn't he win a WCS/GSL if he is the best terran? He attempted plenty
Anyway I think GSL>other tournaments is valid point, until Taeja wins a korean tournament him being the best terran will always be in discussion
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These are always fun to read!
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On February 01 2015 03:10 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:33 TheDwf wrote:
TaeJa instead of Bogus for the title of best Korean Terran? Muahahaha
Between those two, someone actually won a Code S. And it was not TaeJa.
And why Bomber among the runners-up instead of Maru?? Between those two someone also has 11 championships and it's not Innovation. Why didn't he win any of those foreign international tournaments if they're so easy to achieve? He attempted plenty.
What do you mean with he attempted PLENTY? In fact most "elephants" don't have much practice in foreign tournaments.
Which means they aren't that good at dealing with travelling, etc (this is something which affects their performance).
Taeja didn't win his firts few tries at foreign tournaments either, BUT he actually had the chance to get better at dealing with these outside factors cause he pretty much is able to play in every single foreign tournament.
This is maybe a bold claim, but i think if the kespa boys would get the same chance from their teams, you wouldn't see taeja winning most of the foreign tournaments either.
Which leads to another point: these foreign tournaments tajea wins aren't nearly as stacked as code s (or now ssl).
Sure he defeats some good players there, but for the most part these tournaments are ridiculously easy compared to GSL/SSL/Hot6ix Cup/Kespa Cup/Proleague.
So yeah, taeja stays the most overhyped player ever (even though he actually is really good, i don't wanna deny that), nothing new here!
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Wow, so many wrong things here.
Overgrowth not even mentioned for map of the year? King Sejong Station? Those maps were great, just like Frost was.
Flash and the soccer ball was way funnier than the ruler thing.
Taeja best Korean Terran is like, offensively wrong and the hugest of Liquid bias I've ever seen. Innovation can actually win in Korea unlike that hack.
The biased Scarlett fan in me says Scarlett should have been runner-up for best foreign zerg (snute was so obviously first place, that's right at least). Sen had one great result and was pretty silent the rest of the year. Scarlett had 2 great results and was silent the rest of the year. 2>1
Life probably should have been Korean Zerg runner up, but he did only kind of come back into form at the end of the year so I guess I understand. He'll be zerg of the year 2015.
Other than that solid stuff guys!
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On February 01 2015 03:21 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 03:10 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:43 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 02:24 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever. Then when he gets smashed by top tier players at other events they completely ignore it and act as if it never happened. It's crazy.
Players like Maru, Innovation and Bomber have performed on much bigger stages and with greater consistency against the top tier players, but don't get anywhere near as much credit. :/ Yeah like when he edged out Zest 3-0, or edged out soO 3-1, or edged out innovation 3-1. Or maybe you are refering to him getting "smashed" by losing 3-2 to Life twice recently (and lets be real, almost everyone is losing to life right now especially in ZvT) in two of the best series of the year. I know what you mean when you say people overlook his losses, but the way you phrase it passes off his multiple tournament wins as "Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up". Aren't you doing the same thing you claim TL writers are doing? Your view comes off just as biased How is this not exactly what I said? He beats one or two top tier players per event. He barely edges it over people to win events i.e. 4-3 vs Solar & losing to Jim at Shenzhen, 3-2 vs Jaedong & losing to Scarlett/MMA at Homestory Cup, not facing any top tier players at Dreamhack Summer, etc. Then at other tournaments he drops games to Leenock (Dreamhack Winter/Taiwan Open), Flash (3-0 at Homestory Cup), Hyun (WCS), Pigbaby (two different WCS events), Dear/Stardust (ASUS ROG), Major/Hyun (WCS). I'm not claiming he's a bad playing, but saying that he's obviously the best terran of 2014 is crazy while completely ignoring that he lost to random players in loads of the events he played in (even one or two that he won). Acting like he was always undefeatable when he won is ridiculous. Claiming I'm doing the same as the writers is silly because I'm not ignoring data, I'm just using all of the data rather than selecting the little amount that proves that the player I like is the best. I'm also not saying anyone is or isn't the best, I'm saying that calling it so clear cut when other players have had much better performances throughout the year is silly and not backed by data. That tournament that he won by only edging out Solar 4-3 he also 3-0d Zest so I would be curious how you would call that edging someone out. Also, what player HASN'T lost to players that they wouldnt expect them too? Part of the reason that sc2 is so great is that no player is immortal or undefeatable. Also, you trying to discredit his tournament wins in foreign tournaments ignores that NO other player has replicated his results in those tournaments. Innovation (who is also a player i like) tried to live that same way when he went to Acer and didn't NEARLY have the same results as Taeja. I agree that best terran is NOT clear cut, but your initial post baisically said he can barley edge out some top players and only beat "bad" foreign players which Taeja has proven not to be true. TLDR The Best Terran 2014 is by no means clear cut, but claiming that Taeja didn't earn a claim to it, or doesn't deserve to be a candidate (you didn't say that but alot of haters do) is completely stupid. Taeja isn't a God who can beat everyone always, but he has proven that he can consistently dominate overseas, and be dangerous to even the best of the best in korea. Why, when you quite clearly agree with what I said i.e. that top terran isn't clear cut and lots of people have a claim to it, are you being so aggressive and misrepresenting what I said? I in no way said he can only barely beat top players, I said that at the tournaments he won, he only beat 1 or 2 top tier players (i.e. only zest and arguably solar at that tournament), and at other tournaments he gets smashed by random players (i.e. 2-0 by leenock etc at other tournaments). Please don't try to start arguments with people that you agree with for the sake of causing drama. Stop assuming that anyone that thinks other players should have been considered is automatically a "hater". We just have different opinions to the TL writers. There's no need to be aggressive.
I am not "starting arguments" you made a post I disagreed with so I made a point. If you think that is aggressive, thats tough but i wouldn't recommend posting on the internet. If you post your opinion, please be prepared for people to respond with counter arguments without complaining that I am trying to start a fight.
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On February 01 2015 03:21 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 03:10 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:43 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 02:24 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever. Then when he gets smashed by top tier players at other events they completely ignore it and act as if it never happened. It's crazy.
Players like Maru, Innovation and Bomber have performed on much bigger stages and with greater consistency against the top tier players, but don't get anywhere near as much credit. :/ Yeah like when he edged out Zest 3-0, or edged out soO 3-1, or edged out innovation 3-1. Or maybe you are refering to him getting "smashed" by losing 3-2 to Life twice recently (and lets be real, almost everyone is losing to life right now especially in ZvT) in two of the best series of the year. I know what you mean when you say people overlook his losses, but the way you phrase it passes off his multiple tournament wins as "Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up". Aren't you doing the same thing you claim TL writers are doing? Your view comes off just as biased How is this not exactly what I said? He beats one or two top tier players per event. He barely edges it over people to win events i.e. 4-3 vs Solar & losing to Jim at Shenzhen, 3-2 vs Jaedong & losing to Scarlett/MMA at Homestory Cup, not facing any top tier players at Dreamhack Summer, etc. Then at other tournaments he drops games to Leenock (Dreamhack Winter/Taiwan Open), Flash (3-0 at Homestory Cup), Hyun (WCS), Pigbaby (two different WCS events), Dear/Stardust (ASUS ROG), Major/Hyun (WCS). I'm not claiming he's a bad playing, but saying that he's obviously the best terran of 2014 is crazy while completely ignoring that he lost to random players in loads of the events he played in (even one or two that he won). Acting like he was always undefeatable when he won is ridiculous. Claiming I'm doing the same as the writers is silly because I'm not ignoring data, I'm just using all of the data rather than selecting the little amount that proves that the player I like is the best. I'm also not saying anyone is or isn't the best, I'm saying that calling it so clear cut when other players have had much better performances throughout the year is silly and not backed by data. That tournament that he won by only edging out Solar 4-3 he also 3-0d Zest so I would be curious how you would call that edging someone out. Also, what player HASN'T lost to players that they wouldnt expect them too? Part of the reason that sc2 is so great is that no player is immortal or undefeatable. Also, you trying to discredit his tournament wins in foreign tournaments ignores that NO other player has replicated his results in those tournaments. Innovation (who is also a player i like) tried to live that same way when he went to Acer and didn't NEARLY have the same results as Taeja. I agree that best terran is NOT clear cut, but your initial post baisically said he can barley edge out some top players and only beat "bad" foreign players which Taeja has proven not to be true. TLDR The Best Terran 2014 is by no means clear cut, but claiming that Taeja didn't earn a claim to it, or doesn't deserve to be a candidate (you didn't say that but alot of haters do) is completely stupid. Taeja isn't a God who can beat everyone always, but he has proven that he can consistently dominate overseas, and be dangerous to even the best of the best in korea. Why, when you quite clearly agree with what I said i.e. that top terran isn't clear cut and lots of people have a claim to it, are you being so aggressive and misrepresenting what I said? I in no way said he can only barely beat top players, I said that at the tournaments he won, he only beat 1 or 2 top tier players (i.e. only zest and arguably solar at that tournament), and at other tournaments he gets smashed by random players (i.e. 2-0 by leenock etc at other tournaments). Please don't try to start arguments with people that you agree with for the sake of causing drama. Stop assuming that anyone that thinks other players should have been considered is automatically a "hater". We just have different opinions to the TL writers. There's no need to be aggressive.
"Arguably Solar" he says of one of the best performing Zergs of 2014, and Leenock is a "random" now? Maybe if you didn't use so obviously loaded and biased language when hating on other players, people wouldn't get the impression that you were being a "hater".
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
There is one more year end list to be released.
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no day9 award for being day9? worst awards ever
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On February 01 2015 03:29 tjtombo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 03:21 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 03:10 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:43 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 02:24 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever. Then when he gets smashed by top tier players at other events they completely ignore it and act as if it never happened. It's crazy.
Players like Maru, Innovation and Bomber have performed on much bigger stages and with greater consistency against the top tier players, but don't get anywhere near as much credit. :/ Yeah like when he edged out Zest 3-0, or edged out soO 3-1, or edged out innovation 3-1. Or maybe you are refering to him getting "smashed" by losing 3-2 to Life twice recently (and lets be real, almost everyone is losing to life right now especially in ZvT) in two of the best series of the year. I know what you mean when you say people overlook his losses, but the way you phrase it passes off his multiple tournament wins as "Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up". Aren't you doing the same thing you claim TL writers are doing? Your view comes off just as biased How is this not exactly what I said? He beats one or two top tier players per event. He barely edges it over people to win events i.e. 4-3 vs Solar & losing to Jim at Shenzhen, 3-2 vs Jaedong & losing to Scarlett/MMA at Homestory Cup, not facing any top tier players at Dreamhack Summer, etc. Then at other tournaments he drops games to Leenock (Dreamhack Winter/Taiwan Open), Flash (3-0 at Homestory Cup), Hyun (WCS), Pigbaby (two different WCS events), Dear/Stardust (ASUS ROG), Major/Hyun (WCS). I'm not claiming he's a bad playing, but saying that he's obviously the best terran of 2014 is crazy while completely ignoring that he lost to random players in loads of the events he played in (even one or two that he won). Acting like he was always undefeatable when he won is ridiculous. Claiming I'm doing the same as the writers is silly because I'm not ignoring data, I'm just using all of the data rather than selecting the little amount that proves that the player I like is the best. I'm also not saying anyone is or isn't the best, I'm saying that calling it so clear cut when other players have had much better performances throughout the year is silly and not backed by data. That tournament that he won by only edging out Solar 4-3 he also 3-0d Zest so I would be curious how you would call that edging someone out. Also, what player HASN'T lost to players that they wouldnt expect them too? Part of the reason that sc2 is so great is that no player is immortal or undefeatable. Also, you trying to discredit his tournament wins in foreign tournaments ignores that NO other player has replicated his results in those tournaments. Innovation (who is also a player i like) tried to live that same way when he went to Acer and didn't NEARLY have the same results as Taeja. I agree that best terran is NOT clear cut, but your initial post baisically said he can barley edge out some top players and only beat "bad" foreign players which Taeja has proven not to be true. TLDR The Best Terran 2014 is by no means clear cut, but claiming that Taeja didn't earn a claim to it, or doesn't deserve to be a candidate (you didn't say that but alot of haters do) is completely stupid. Taeja isn't a God who can beat everyone always, but he has proven that he can consistently dominate overseas, and be dangerous to even the best of the best in korea. Why, when you quite clearly agree with what I said i.e. that top terran isn't clear cut and lots of people have a claim to it, are you being so aggressive and misrepresenting what I said? I in no way said he can only barely beat top players, I said that at the tournaments he won, he only beat 1 or 2 top tier players (i.e. only zest and arguably solar at that tournament), and at other tournaments he gets smashed by random players (i.e. 2-0 by leenock etc at other tournaments). Please don't try to start arguments with people that you agree with for the sake of causing drama. Stop assuming that anyone that thinks other players should have been considered is automatically a "hater". We just have different opinions to the TL writers. There's no need to be aggressive. I am not "starting arguments" you made a post I disagreed with so I made a point. If you think that is aggressive, thats tough but i wouldn't recommend posting on the internet. If you post your opinion, please be prepared for people to respond with counter arguments without complaining that I am trying to start a fight.
Calling people stupid and using all caps; now "counter arguments". You learn new stuff every day.
On topic: it's important to discuss why players haven't attended certain foreign events. A lot of the time they pull out last minute because they have commitments in GSL etc. In many ways, not being able to play an IEM or Dreamhack at all because you have ro16 or ro8 GSL is a greater sign of achievement than winning that IEM or Dreamhack. Obviously that's contextual though.
On February 01 2015 03:31 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 03:21 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 03:10 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:43 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 02:24 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever. Then when he gets smashed by top tier players at other events they completely ignore it and act as if it never happened. It's crazy.
Players like Maru, Innovation and Bomber have performed on much bigger stages and with greater consistency against the top tier players, but don't get anywhere near as much credit. :/ Yeah like when he edged out Zest 3-0, or edged out soO 3-1, or edged out innovation 3-1. Or maybe you are refering to him getting "smashed" by losing 3-2 to Life twice recently (and lets be real, almost everyone is losing to life right now especially in ZvT) in two of the best series of the year. I know what you mean when you say people overlook his losses, but the way you phrase it passes off his multiple tournament wins as "Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up". Aren't you doing the same thing you claim TL writers are doing? Your view comes off just as biased How is this not exactly what I said? He beats one or two top tier players per event. He barely edges it over people to win events i.e. 4-3 vs Solar & losing to Jim at Shenzhen, 3-2 vs Jaedong & losing to Scarlett/MMA at Homestory Cup, not facing any top tier players at Dreamhack Summer, etc. Then at other tournaments he drops games to Leenock (Dreamhack Winter/Taiwan Open), Flash (3-0 at Homestory Cup), Hyun (WCS), Pigbaby (two different WCS events), Dear/Stardust (ASUS ROG), Major/Hyun (WCS). I'm not claiming he's a bad playing, but saying that he's obviously the best terran of 2014 is crazy while completely ignoring that he lost to random players in loads of the events he played in (even one or two that he won). Acting like he was always undefeatable when he won is ridiculous. Claiming I'm doing the same as the writers is silly because I'm not ignoring data, I'm just using all of the data rather than selecting the little amount that proves that the player I like is the best. I'm also not saying anyone is or isn't the best, I'm saying that calling it so clear cut when other players have had much better performances throughout the year is silly and not backed by data. That tournament that he won by only edging out Solar 4-3 he also 3-0d Zest so I would be curious how you would call that edging someone out. Also, what player HASN'T lost to players that they wouldnt expect them too? Part of the reason that sc2 is so great is that no player is immortal or undefeatable. Also, you trying to discredit his tournament wins in foreign tournaments ignores that NO other player has replicated his results in those tournaments. Innovation (who is also a player i like) tried to live that same way when he went to Acer and didn't NEARLY have the same results as Taeja. I agree that best terran is NOT clear cut, but your initial post baisically said he can barley edge out some top players and only beat "bad" foreign players which Taeja has proven not to be true. TLDR The Best Terran 2014 is by no means clear cut, but claiming that Taeja didn't earn a claim to it, or doesn't deserve to be a candidate (you didn't say that but alot of haters do) is completely stupid. Taeja isn't a God who can beat everyone always, but he has proven that he can consistently dominate overseas, and be dangerous to even the best of the best in korea. Why, when you quite clearly agree with what I said i.e. that top terran isn't clear cut and lots of people have a claim to it, are you being so aggressive and misrepresenting what I said? I in no way said he can only barely beat top players, I said that at the tournaments he won, he only beat 1 or 2 top tier players (i.e. only zest and arguably solar at that tournament), and at other tournaments he gets smashed by random players (i.e. 2-0 by leenock etc at other tournaments). Please don't try to start arguments with people that you agree with for the sake of causing drama. Stop assuming that anyone that thinks other players should have been considered is automatically a "hater". We just have different opinions to the TL writers. There's no need to be aggressive. "Arguably Solar" he says of one of the best performing Zergs of 2014, and Leenock is a "random" now? Maybe if you didn't use so obviously loaded and biased language when hating on other players, people wouldn't get the impression that you were being a "hater".
Umm, Lol? What's loaded, talking about players in terms of tiers where the top tier is the players winning and performing in GSL? (or winning top foreign events, which is why Taeja is top tier). Solar wasn't the best performing zerg when he played Taeja. That's like saying beating Maru in 2011 is like beating him now, there's an obvious discrepancy and it was before Solar started smashing.
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On February 01 2015 03:21 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 03:10 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:43 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 02:24 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever. Then when he gets smashed by top tier players at other events they completely ignore it and act as if it never happened. It's crazy.
Players like Maru, Innovation and Bomber have performed on much bigger stages and with greater consistency against the top tier players, but don't get anywhere near as much credit. :/ Yeah like when he edged out Zest 3-0, or edged out soO 3-1, or edged out innovation 3-1. Or maybe you are refering to him getting "smashed" by losing 3-2 to Life twice recently (and lets be real, almost everyone is losing to life right now especially in ZvT) in two of the best series of the year. I know what you mean when you say people overlook his losses, but the way you phrase it passes off his multiple tournament wins as "Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up". Aren't you doing the same thing you claim TL writers are doing? Your view comes off just as biased How is this not exactly what I said? He beats one or two top tier players per event. He barely edges it over people to win events i.e. 4-3 vs Solar & losing to Jim at Shenzhen, 3-2 vs Jaedong & losing to Scarlett/MMA at Homestory Cup, not facing any top tier players at Dreamhack Summer, etc. Then at other tournaments he drops games to Leenock (Dreamhack Winter/Taiwan Open), Flash (3-0 at Homestory Cup), Hyun (WCS), Pigbaby (two different WCS events), Dear/Stardust (ASUS ROG), Major/Hyun (WCS). I'm not claiming he's a bad playing, but saying that he's obviously the best terran of 2014 is crazy while completely ignoring that he lost to random players in loads of the events he played in (even one or two that he won). Acting like he was always undefeatable when he won is ridiculous. Claiming I'm doing the same as the writers is silly because I'm not ignoring data, I'm just using all of the data rather than selecting the little amount that proves that the player I like is the best. I'm also not saying anyone is or isn't the best, I'm saying that calling it so clear cut when other players have had much better performances throughout the year is silly and not backed by data. That tournament that he won by only edging out Solar 4-3 he also 3-0d Zest so I would be curious how you would call that edging someone out. Also, what player HASN'T lost to players that they wouldnt expect them too? Part of the reason that sc2 is so great is that no player is immortal or undefeatable. Also, you trying to discredit his tournament wins in foreign tournaments ignores that NO other player has replicated his results in those tournaments. Innovation (who is also a player i like) tried to live that same way when he went to Acer and didn't NEARLY have the same results as Taeja. I agree that best terran is NOT clear cut, but your initial post baisically said he can barley edge out some top players and only beat "bad" foreign players which Taeja has proven not to be true. TLDR The Best Terran 2014 is by no means clear cut, but claiming that Taeja didn't earn a claim to it, or doesn't deserve to be a candidate (you didn't say that but alot of haters do) is completely stupid. Taeja isn't a God who can beat everyone always, but he has proven that he can consistently dominate overseas, and be dangerous to even the best of the best in korea. Why, when you quite clearly agree with what I said i.e. that top terran isn't clear cut and lots of people have a claim to it, are you being so aggressive and misrepresenting what I said? I in no way said he can only barely beat top players, I said that at the tournaments he won, he only beat 1 or 2 top tier players (i.e. only zest and arguably solar at that tournament), and at other tournaments he gets smashed by random players (i.e. 2-0 by leenock etc at other tournaments). Please don't try to start arguments with people that you agree with for the sake of causing drama. Stop assuming that anyone that thinks other players should have been considered is automatically a "hater". We just have different opinions to the TL writers. There's no need to be aggressive
Actually, that's what you said:
On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever.
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On February 01 2015 03:34 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 03:21 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 03:10 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:43 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 02:24 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever. Then when he gets smashed by top tier players at other events they completely ignore it and act as if it never happened. It's crazy.
Players like Maru, Innovation and Bomber have performed on much bigger stages and with greater consistency against the top tier players, but don't get anywhere near as much credit. :/ Yeah like when he edged out Zest 3-0, or edged out soO 3-1, or edged out innovation 3-1. Or maybe you are refering to him getting "smashed" by losing 3-2 to Life twice recently (and lets be real, almost everyone is losing to life right now especially in ZvT) in two of the best series of the year. I know what you mean when you say people overlook his losses, but the way you phrase it passes off his multiple tournament wins as "Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up". Aren't you doing the same thing you claim TL writers are doing? Your view comes off just as biased How is this not exactly what I said? He beats one or two top tier players per event. He barely edges it over people to win events i.e. 4-3 vs Solar & losing to Jim at Shenzhen, 3-2 vs Jaedong & losing to Scarlett/MMA at Homestory Cup, not facing any top tier players at Dreamhack Summer, etc. Then at other tournaments he drops games to Leenock (Dreamhack Winter/Taiwan Open), Flash (3-0 at Homestory Cup), Hyun (WCS), Pigbaby (two different WCS events), Dear/Stardust (ASUS ROG), Major/Hyun (WCS). I'm not claiming he's a bad playing, but saying that he's obviously the best terran of 2014 is crazy while completely ignoring that he lost to random players in loads of the events he played in (even one or two that he won). Acting like he was always undefeatable when he won is ridiculous. Claiming I'm doing the same as the writers is silly because I'm not ignoring data, I'm just using all of the data rather than selecting the little amount that proves that the player I like is the best. I'm also not saying anyone is or isn't the best, I'm saying that calling it so clear cut when other players have had much better performances throughout the year is silly and not backed by data. That tournament that he won by only edging out Solar 4-3 he also 3-0d Zest so I would be curious how you would call that edging someone out. Also, what player HASN'T lost to players that they wouldnt expect them too? Part of the reason that sc2 is so great is that no player is immortal or undefeatable. Also, you trying to discredit his tournament wins in foreign tournaments ignores that NO other player has replicated his results in those tournaments. Innovation (who is also a player i like) tried to live that same way when he went to Acer and didn't NEARLY have the same results as Taeja. I agree that best terran is NOT clear cut, but your initial post baisically said he can barley edge out some top players and only beat "bad" foreign players which Taeja has proven not to be true. TLDR The Best Terran 2014 is by no means clear cut, but claiming that Taeja didn't earn a claim to it, or doesn't deserve to be a candidate (you didn't say that but alot of haters do) is completely stupid. Taeja isn't a God who can beat everyone always, but he has proven that he can consistently dominate overseas, and be dangerous to even the best of the best in korea. Why, when you quite clearly agree with what I said i.e. that top terran isn't clear cut and lots of people have a claim to it, are you being so aggressive and misrepresenting what I said? I in no way said he can only barely beat top players, I said that at the tournaments he won, he only beat 1 or 2 top tier players (i.e. only zest and arguably solar at that tournament), and at other tournaments he gets smashed by random players (i.e. 2-0 by leenock etc at other tournaments). Please don't try to start arguments with people that you agree with for the sake of causing drama. Stop assuming that anyone that thinks other players should have been considered is automatically a "hater". We just have different opinions to the TL writers. There's no need to be aggressive Actually, that's what you said: Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever.
Apologies if you misinterpreted what I said.
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Have people forgotten that taeja nearly won blizzcon, that series versus life easily could have gone either way.
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I hope one day we get to see the inhouse debates for this.
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On February 01 2015 03:10 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:33 TheDwf wrote:
TaeJa instead of Bogus for the title of best Korean Terran? Muahahaha
Between those two, someone actually won a Code S. And it was not TaeJa.
And why Bomber among the runners-up instead of Maru?? Between those two someone also has 11 championships and it's not Innovation.
Irrelevant since we're talking 2014, not the whole career.
Why didn't he win any of those foreign international tournaments if they're so easy to achieve? He attempted plenty.
1. I didn't say "they're so easy". Don't put words into my mouth/don't assume things please. I'm not a "TaeJa hater". If I had to rate him in 2014 Terrans I would put him second.
2. Unless I forgot something Bogus attempted 3 international Premier in 2014. At IEM Cologne he was protossed by HerO in one of the most disgusting TvP series of the year. At the DH Bucharest he reached RO4 before losing 1-2 to the eventual winner, Life. At IEM Shenzhen he reached RO8, then lost to Solar (who, from memory, would have won the tournament 4-2 had he not massively thrown the game 6 against TaeJa). So even if he didn't win any, I think he did fine under the circumstances. Props to TaeJa for winning the stacked Shenzhen, but HSC X and the DH Summer weren't as hard.
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On February 01 2015 03:33 stuchiu wrote:
There is one more year end list to be released.
Top 10 players with the saltiest fans?
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Liquid players take all the awards eh?
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On February 01 2015 03:28 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 03:10 Thax wrote:On February 01 2015 02:33 TheDwf wrote:
TaeJa instead of Bogus for the title of best Korean Terran? Muahahaha
Between those two, someone actually won a Code S. And it was not TaeJa.
And why Bomber among the runners-up instead of Maru?? Between those two someone also has 11 championships and it's not Innovation. Why didn't he win any of those foreign international tournaments if they're so easy to achieve? He attempted plenty. What do you mean with he attempted PLENTY? In fact most "elephants" don't have much practice in foreign tournaments. Which means they aren't that good at dealing with travelling, etc (this is something which affects their performance). Taeja didn't win his firts few tries at foreign tournaments either, BUT he actually had the chance to get better at dealing with these outside factors cause he pretty much is able to play in every single foreign tournament. This is maybe a bold claim, but i think if the kespa boys would get the same chance from their teams, you wouldn't see taeja winning most of the foreign tournaments either. Which leads to another point: these foreign tournaments tajea wins aren't nearly as stacked as code s (or now ssl). Sure he defeats some good players there, but for the most part these tournaments are ridiculously easy compared to GSL/SSL/Hot6ix Cup/Kespa Cup/Proleague. So yeah, taeja stays the most overhyped player ever (even though he actually is really good, i don't wanna deny that), nothing new here!
Innovation was on a foreign team (Acer) for the majority of 2014 and half of 2013. Why the heck are you talking about Kespa teams? They sent him to plenty of international tournaments. 6 to be exact. Taeja won the 5th he attended, ahead of 7 top Koreans from that time + Stephano. Your argument is baseless.
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EPT
