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On February 01 2015 22:10 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 22:05 rotta wrote:On February 01 2015 21:49 Incognoto wrote:
Literally one terran was relevant during the great Terran drought and that was Maru In Green Wings? I agree. Err no, in the whole Terrandom. Are you forgetting already that he made the playoffs of GSL twice in a row while Terrans were getting wrecked left and right and the LRs were full of "If I could play like Maru the game would be balanced"?
You're right, but one premier SF finish all year isn't that hot when a certain Terran did that on three regions and then some. Maru isn't the only one neglected here is all I'm sayin'.
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Life winning blizzcon and is missing there. He is even far away from being a runner up in the category of best zerg.
That is a bit weird. Some guys must be still angry that life abused bl/infestor back in the days.
In the terran department I don't really find a real reason for why taeja in 2014 should be above bomber and innovation.
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Jim actually beat Welmu 2-0! At the Azerbaijan tournament whose name I don't recall.
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On February 02 2015 00:18 LSN wrote:
Life winning blizzcon and is missing there. He is even far away from being a runner up in the category of best zerg.
That is a bit weird. Some guys must be still angry that life abused bl/infestor back in the days.
In the terran department I don't really find a real reason for why taeja in 2014 should be above bomber and innovation.
He never really abused BL/Infestor as much as his fellow zergs
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no liquid bias, just reality
also, life "not even close" to runner up to soo?
also the people who are complaining about taeja are just ridiculous. same shit, always.
the people you say should be over taeja were beaten by taeja in the tournaments he won
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Protip, if your controversial gamble trying to push your own player into the limelight garners massive amounts of backlash from the community, you scale back and make amends. If you want to keep pushing, though, we can always take a closer look at Taeja.
First, the article is written in a way which hints at a large number of tournament wins and insane consistency throughout the year. But, in fact, Taeja won only 3 premier tournaments (and these were the cheapest 25k ones, only outmisered by the GSL global championships with 18k) between June 18th and July 20th (that's 42 days, or 7 weekends). There was no domination throughout the year, only runs of a few wins against Korean competition.
The article also completely dismisses team leagues which give Maru, Innovation and Flash a huge boost. Just because people seem to be less familiar with this compared to proleague, a quick refresher of Acer Teamleague:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JL0F5RL.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HctF6G2.png)
The crucial point is that not every Korean Terran spent their time flying to foreign tournaments, a lot of them actually spent their time fighting in proleague or emphasizing other team leagues. And these results show more about their quality as a Korean Terran than let's say Homestory cup.
Some people also believe that if you win against a player, you're automatically better than them. Well, then Flash, with his 6-1 record against Taeja in 2014, should definitely be best Korean Terran. I am not the best person to make the case for Flash, but a quick look at his match history in 2014, his 23-16 record in proleague together with a proleague championship, and his premier tournament win over Zest (Korean player of the year) put him into competition for best Korean Terran for certain.
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I'm not having a go, but I have been following the scene since 2010 and neither player nor team ring a bell.
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ghanburighan if u can't actually say who should be the terran pick instead of taeja then your argument is absolutely worthless.
if you are suggesting it should be innovation then it should be a simple matter of comparing accomplishments for 2014. so then do that.
if your argument is "the tournaments innovation were in were harder", then you can't ignore the fact that taeja kept beating him in the tournaments where they played each other
basically you have no reasonable argument
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Don`t agree with Taeja either. Also no mention to life as runner up. There are other things I don't agree too.
Anyway it looks like the writer really overlooks the foreigner tournaments and didn't account how well some players did in proleague.
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On February 02 2015 10:14 travis wrote:
ghanburighan if u can't actually say who should be the terran pick instead of taeja then your argument is absolutely worthless.
if you are suggesting it should be innovation then it should be a simple matter of comparing accomplishments for 2014. so then do that.
if your argument is "the tournaments innovation were in were harder", then you can't ignore the fact that taeja kept beating him in the tournaments where they played each other
basically you have no reasonable argument
I very clearly said that Innovation deserves best Korean Terran, I also believe that any Korean player would agree on this. He's the GSL champion, he led his team at the time to Acer teamleague glory over Taeja's Liquid, and he was a threat all throughout the year, despite not winning small tournaments because he didn't attend many. Innovation played 300 games in 2014, Taeja 500. This only shows that Liquid money gives Taeja twice the chance to shine in a year. And still Taeja winning 3 of the smallest premier tournaments inside 42 days does not trump Innovation's achievement.
The fact that Flash and Maru are also arguably better than Taeja this year only makes his placement as first worse.
As for the, `but he beat Innovation in SOME of the tournaments they met', I already showed why that is a terrible argument by pointing out that Flash has a 6-1 record against Taeja, so Flash ought to be first then. It's even worse on the general level, as Soo has a terrible 0-4 record against Rogue, one of the best Zergs this year. Should Rogue be above Soo then? No, because he didn't have as big a general impact on the game. Innovation did, he spearheaded the Terran resurgence by taking GSL, and breaking Soo's soul.
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Why not Bomber vs. Pigbaby finals?
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On February 02 2015 16:09 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 10:14 travis wrote:
ghanburighan if u can't actually say who should be the terran pick instead of taeja then your argument is absolutely worthless.
if you are suggesting it should be innovation then it should be a simple matter of comparing accomplishments for 2014. so then do that.
if your argument is "the tournaments innovation were in were harder", then you can't ignore the fact that taeja kept beating him in the tournaments where they played each other
basically you have no reasonable argument I very clearly said that Innovation deserves best Korean Terran, I also believe that any Korean player would agree on this. He's the GSL champion, he led his team at the time to Acer teamleague glory over Taeja's Liquid, and he was a threat all throughout the year, despite not winning small tournaments because he didn't attend many. Innovation played 300 games in 2014, Taeja 500. This only shows that Liquid money gives Taeja twice the chance to shine in a year. And still Taeja winning 3 of the smallest premier tournaments inside 42 days does not trump Innovation's achievement.
I'll agree the writers overrate Taeja a bit by implying that he was significantly better than other Terrans. It's really a tough race between Bogus and Taeja for the top spot in my mind. Maru, Flash, Bomber and Polt are in the next tier.
Though, I do think you're being a tad disingenuous in only looking at the events Taeja won, while also trying to use ATC (an online team league with mostly soft competition) as a significant result. Yeah, Bogus had an insane record of 38-8. Taeja's run at Blizzcon alone is arguably more impressive than that, even if he didn't win. He soundly defeated the most recent gsl finalists there and barely lost to the eventual champion (who's also from KR). His play there was probably the strongest I've seen from a Terran all year.
Also, yes Taeja has more opportunity than Bogus. Doesn't necessarily mean he'll continuously shine. There's more opportunity to fail as well. More opportunity for fickle TL to point and say, "aha! See! He's not that great". Like when Leenock eliminated him in the first round at TWOP. Solar had to have played in more shit than anyone in 2014. Sadly, he's somehow not remotely close to soO according to TL...
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On February 02 2015 17:02 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 16:09 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 02 2015 10:14 travis wrote:
ghanburighan if u can't actually say who should be the terran pick instead of taeja then your argument is absolutely worthless.
if you are suggesting it should be innovation then it should be a simple matter of comparing accomplishments for 2014. so then do that.
if your argument is "the tournaments innovation were in were harder", then you can't ignore the fact that taeja kept beating him in the tournaments where they played each other
basically you have no reasonable argument I very clearly said that Innovation deserves best Korean Terran, I also believe that any Korean player would agree on this. He's the GSL champion, he led his team at the time to Acer teamleague glory over Taeja's Liquid, and he was a threat all throughout the year, despite not winning small tournaments because he didn't attend many. Innovation played 300 games in 2014, Taeja 500. This only shows that Liquid money gives Taeja twice the chance to shine in a year. And still Taeja winning 3 of the smallest premier tournaments inside 42 days does not trump Innovation's achievement. I'll agree the writers overrate Taeja a bit by implying that he was significantly better than other Terrans. It's really a tough race between Bogus and Taeja for the top spot in my mind. Maru, Flash, Bomber and Polt are in the next tier. Though, I do think you're being a tad disingenuous in only looking at the events Taeja won, while also trying to use ATC (an online team league with mostly soft competition) as a significant result. Yeah, Bogus had an insane record of 38-8. Taeja's run at Blizzcon alone is arguably more impressive than that, even if he didn't win. He soundly defeated the most recent gsl finalists there and barely lost to the eventual champion (who's also from KR). His play there was probably the strongest I've seen from a Terran all year. Also, yes Taeja has more opportunity than Bogus. Doesn't necessarily mean he'll continuously shine. There's more opportunity to fail as well. More opportunity for fickle TL to point and say, "aha! See! He's not that great". Like when Leenock eliminated him in the first round at TWOP. Solar had to have played in more shit than anyone in 2014. Sadly, he's somehow not remotely close to soO according to TL...
Had the argumentation been in the vein you presented it, I wouldn't even mind. Regarding Blizzcon, though, I find that tournament overrated as anything. In the end, Taeja played 3 sets of bo3, ending with a 8-5 record. And Soo was clearly a broken man by that time, while Innovation also played uncharacteristically badly (perhaps taking down-time after the GSL victory).
One of the reasons I pointed at ATC is that Innovation clearly prioritized that tournament, and he beat Taeja consistenly in that competition. This is just to water down the whole head-to-head argument which I think is terrible anyway as sometimes players just have the other's number (Flash versus Taeja, Rogue versus Soo). I also wanted to point out that players emphasize different tournaments, and proleague should elevate Flash and Maru into the same category as Taeja and Innovation.
On the point of Solar, I find it interesting how similar he is to Taeja. Constantly dangerous but sometimes out of form. Attended a huge amount of tournaments and won 2 back-to-back cheap premier tournaments. Also got some high finishes, like the time when he lost to Taeja in some final.
Edit: typo.
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On February 02 2015 10:14 travis wrote:
if your argument is "the tournaments innovation were in were harder", then you can't ignore the fact that taeja kept beating him in the tournaments where they played each other
?? Their head-to-head for 2014 is 9-7 in TaeJa's favor, with the record being 6-6 prior to the Blizzcon match which was played in the conditions we know. So it's hardly a stomp, and thus it's largely irrelevant to decide between them. MMA beating Bomber 3-1 at Blizzcon doesn't mean MMA's year was better than Bomber's one.
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On February 02 2015 16:15 zelevin wrote:
Why not Bomber vs. Pigbaby finals?
Because Bomber lost kekek
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Best Korean Terran is a joke, wtf, no Maru?
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On February 02 2015 19:15 SC2Toastie wrote:
Best Korean Terran is a joke, wtf, no Maru?
Well, he's received royal roader and rookie awards after 3-4 years of playing so whatever. 
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Hyvaa Dent was totally right.
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Agree with most of the awards, congrats to a fantastic year of sc2
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EPT
