• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:46
CET 10:46
KST 18:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
sOs joins Best's team, Newcatsle University Rollback Netcode in Brood War SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stratus: Battle for the sky now on steam Early acc Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7934 users

Call to Action: January 29 Balance Testing

Forum Index > SC2 General
216 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8160 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-29 23:46:52
January 29 2015 22:23 GMT
#1
[image loading]
banner by Existor



http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/17779094/call-to-action-january-29-balance-testing-1-29-2015


We’ve just published a Balance Test Map to the StarCraft II Custom Games list titled “Deadwing LE (2.1.8 Balance v1.0)”. In this test map, we’ll be testing major changes to the Swarm Host as well as a reduction on the duration of the Point Defense Drone. These changes are more significant than any we’ve tested before and we’ll be relying on community participation to ensure they are tested thoroughly.

Below we’ve outlined the changes, as well as how you can test them out in a way that is both fun and easy! Remember however that none of these changes are final. We intend to explore how each change impacts the game and potentially test more changes after reviewing your feedback. Let’s have a look now at the full list of changes you can check out in this version:

Balance Test Map Changes

Balance Test Map: “Deadwing LE (2.1.8 Balance v1.0)”

Zerg

  • Swarm Host

    • Cost modified from 200 Minerals and 100 Vespene to 100 Minerals and 200 Vespene
    • Supply cost increased from 3 to 4
    • Movement speed increased from 2.25 to 2.95
    • Swarm Hosts now require the Burrow research in order to burrow
    • Swarm Hosts no longer collide with Locusts

  • Spawn Locusts – This ability has been reworked
    • Auto-cast removed, Spawn Locusts must now be manually cast.
    • Spawn Locusts cooldown increased from 25 seconds to 60 seconds
    • Casting Spawn Locusts no longer requires a Swarm Host to be burrowed

  • Locust
    • Weapon speed increased from .8 to .6
    • Locust duration increased from 15 seconds (+10 seconds with Enduring Locusts) to 30 seconds

  • Infestation Pit
    • Enduring Locusts – This upgrade has been removed
    • New upgrade: Flying Locusts - Allows Locusts spawned by Swarm Hosts to fly. Flying Locusts can use Swoop to land and attack
      • Requires Lair
      • Cost is 200 Minerals, 200 Vespene, 160 seconds
      • Allows Locusts spawned by Swarm Hosts to fly. Flying Locusts can use Swoop to land and attack
      • Swoop: Orders the Locust to land at the targeted location, allowing it to attack


Terran

  • Raven
    • Point Defense Drone duration decreased from 180 seconds to 20 seconds


Balance Testing Extension Mod
We’ve also updated the Extension Mod for balance testing, so that you can try your hand with these changes on maps other than Deadwing. Those of you who are interested in trying out the Extension Mod can use the following steps to get a game started:

1. Navigate to Browse Maps on the Custom Games menu,
2. Select a map and click the Create with Mod button in the lower right corner,
3. Choose to sort by Blizzard Mods from the dropdown list at the top of the screen.
4. Select the “Balance Test Mod” Extension from the list and then hit Create Game.


New “Balance Testers” Group

In order to make finding an opponent as easy as possible, we’ve gone ahead and set up a group where you can find players of similar skill to play with in the Balance Test Map! To join this group, simply follow these steps:

1. Press the “Groups” icon in the bottom right, next to “Menu”
2. Click “Find” to bring up the list of all featured Groups
3. Search for "Balance Testers" in the top-right corner

Now that you’ve joined the StarCraft II balance tester community, you’ll find it much easier to find players of similar skills who are also interested in testing out our balance test maps, including this one!
Facebook Twitter Reddit
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
January 29 2015 22:30 GMT
#2
Clever move to do that testmap on Deadwing. But please, do something about tempests too.
Pontius Pirate
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United States1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-29 22:38:31
January 29 2015 22:38 GMT
#3

Zerg

Swarm Host

  • Swarm Hosts no longer collide with Locusts


This really should've been the case since the beginning of the HotS beta.
"I had to close the door so my parents wouldn't judge me." - ZombieGrub during the ShitfaceTradeTV stream
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3308 Posts
January 29 2015 22:39 GMT
#4
On January 30 2015 07:38 Pontius Pirate wrote:
Show nested quote +

Zerg

Swarm Host

  • Swarm Hosts no longer collide with Locusts


This really should've been the case since the beginning of the HotS beta.


Blizzard is... slow.
T P Z sagi
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12619 Posts
January 29 2015 22:39 GMT
#5
If we're going to do that seriously we need to play a lot of PvZ and TvP on those maps. I don't think the raven change can go through with no change at all to lategame protoss, but I don't want to advocate a change to lategame protoss before I know how PvZ looks like with those swarmhosts...
No will to live, no wish to die
Pontius Pirate
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United States1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-29 22:44:26
January 29 2015 22:44 GMT
#6
I still think that the problem could've been solved with a simple change to the the enduring locusts ability that made them tankier instead of lasting longer. That would've made it nearly impossible to bullrush through them with Colossi and storms, but it would've been very easy to counterattack against them, making constant repositioning of SHs a complete and total necessity, rather than just a flashy move. I'm all for the LotV redesign once LotV rolls around, but I would've preferred a more elegant solution for HotS.
"I had to close the door so my parents wouldn't judge me." - ZombieGrub during the ShitfaceTradeTV stream
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
January 29 2015 22:49 GMT
#7
On January 30 2015 07:44 Pontius Pirate wrote:
I still think that the problem could've been solved with a simple change to the the enduring locusts ability that made them tankier instead of lasting longer. That would've made it nearly impossible to bullrush through them with Colossi and storms, but it would've been very easy to counterattack against them, making constant repositioning of SHs a complete and total necessity, rather than just a flashy move. I'm all for the LotV redesign once LotV rolls around, but I would've preferred a more elegant solution for HotS.

If the swarm host is going to be massively redesigned, I'm OK with this change being tried out in HotS beforehand. Of course LotV will be a bit different but probably not THAT different either so I think it's a reasonable move.
( bush
Profile Joined April 2011
321 Posts
January 29 2015 22:49 GMT
#8
On January 30 2015 07:39 Nebuchad wrote:
If we're going to do that seriously we need to play a lot of PvZ and TvP on those maps. I don't think the raven change can go through with no change at all to lategame protoss, but I don't want to advocate a change to lategame protoss before I know how PvZ looks like with those swarmhosts...


What role do ravens play in TvP? Please don't act like mech is a thing here.
oo
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
January 29 2015 22:51 GMT
#9
Time to nerf the Tempest too, PDD and SH are the only things the other races have to deal with mass tempest/templar
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
January 29 2015 22:51 GMT
#10
On January 30 2015 07:49 ( bush wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2015 07:39 Nebuchad wrote:
If we're going to do that seriously we need to play a lot of PvZ and TvP on those maps. I don't think the raven change can go through with no change at all to lategame protoss, but I don't want to advocate a change to lategame protoss before I know how PvZ looks like with those swarmhosts...


What role do ravens play in TvP? Please don't act like mech is a thing here.

Endgame TvP revolves around Ghost/Viking/Raven/MMM support vs Collosus Templar Tempest Cannon
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
( bush
Profile Joined April 2011
321 Posts
January 29 2015 22:53 GMT
#11
On January 30 2015 07:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2015 07:49 ( bush wrote:
On January 30 2015 07:39 Nebuchad wrote:
If we're going to do that seriously we need to play a lot of PvZ and TvP on those maps. I don't think the raven change can go through with no change at all to lategame protoss, but I don't want to advocate a change to lategame protoss before I know how PvZ looks like with those swarmhosts...


What role do ravens play in TvP? Please don't act like mech is a thing here.

Endgame TvP revolves around Ghost/Viking/Raven/MMM support vs Collosus Templar Tempest Cannon


That's new for me. And I watch this game everyday since 2010.
oo
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17750 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-29 22:59:20
January 29 2015 22:57 GMT
#12
locust dps sounds like it's gonna be ridiculous now with this increased attack speed, I'll have to watch a stream of someone better than me playing on this test map lol

I guess here http://www.twitch.tv/nathanias
"Expert" mods4ever.com
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-30 21:36:15
January 29 2015 23:04 GMT
#13
Blizzard needs to change Tempests if they want to change Ravens.

And this may be a SH buff. +100 gas -100 minerals and +1 supply, but they move 30% faster, locust last much longer, locust have way higher DPS, and they fly.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
January 29 2015 23:04 GMT
#14
woa, woa, woa... them hidden changes:
Swarm Hosts no longer collide with Locusts

this is actually really nice of them and long overdue in terms of just fun design!!! Btw, no burrow need also means no more akwardly waddling swarm hosts because they were too slow to burrow. If nothing else comes out of this, I hope we can keep some of that stuff!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-29 23:06:52
January 29 2015 23:06 GMT
#15
On January 30 2015 08:04 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Blizzard needs to change Tempests if they want to change Ravens.


Noone at a reasonable level is playing Ravens against Protoss. I understand you critics, but that's just some lowtier change. The Tempest should be changed, but for other reasons than Ravens not countering them anymore. That's a complete non-issue in the current state of the Boys vs Protoss matchup.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
January 29 2015 23:08 GMT
#16
On January 30 2015 08:06 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2015 08:04 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Blizzard needs to change Tempests if they want to change Ravens.


Noone at a reasonable level is playing Ravens against Protoss. I understand you critics, but that's just some lowtier change. The Tempest should be changed, but for other reasons than Ravens not countering them anymore. That's a complete non-issue in the current state of the Boys vs Protoss matchup.

Mech exists. This is a balance thread, so we should consider all play-styles. Not just Zerg perspective, or bio perspective.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
January 29 2015 23:15 GMT
#17
Can't wait to see the results of this, great move Blizz!
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
January 29 2015 23:16 GMT
#18
On January 30 2015 08:08 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2015 08:06 Big J wrote:
On January 30 2015 08:04 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Blizzard needs to change Tempests if they want to change Ravens.


Noone at a reasonable level is playing Ravens against Protoss. I understand you critics, but that's just some lowtier change. The Tempest should be changed, but for other reasons than Ravens not countering them anymore. That's a complete non-issue in the current state of the Boys vs Protoss matchup.

Mech exists. This is a balance thread, so we should consider all play-styles. Not just Zerg perspective, or bio perspective.

I don't want to dig into what playstyles you are "supposed to be able to play" too much, especially since I'm all about making more playstyles viable, but note that the game is simply being balanced around "what works". At this point, Mech has as much of a "right to exist" vs Protoss as Sentry/Voidray or any other completely random Protoss composition vs Terran has. It's just a combination of units that some people want to be working, not anything that needs to be working. If tanks don't work against Immortals, then I guess don't play them. Just like a Protoss doesn't run mass voidrays into marines and then complains that it doesn't work.
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
January 29 2015 23:20 GMT
#19
Really excited to see what the results will show, I do forsee a lot of tweaking for this to be done just right. Also thank god for the non-collision move, really a nice touch to something that's been a pain in the ass for so long.
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
Larkin
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom7161 Posts
January 29 2015 23:20 GMT
#20
Somewhere, Snute is crying
https://www.twitch.tv/ttalarkin - streams random stuff, high level teamleague, maybe even heroleague
1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3139
FanTaSy 487
ZerO 231
actioN 224
Leta 136
Killer 115
Mind 99
Free 97
Sharp 86
NaDa 36
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 28
soO 23
Bale 22
zelot 21
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Terrorterran 12
yabsab 11
Counter-Strike
fl0m2796
Super Smash Bros
Westballz42
Other Games
summit1g10844
JimRising 477
Lowko296
Fuzer 195
Mew2King103
NeuroSwarm64
ViBE23
Railgan17
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick450
Counter-Strike
PGL109
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 28
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt456
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1h 15m
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
IPSL
7h 15m
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
9h 15m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 1h
IPSL
1d 7h
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
1d 13h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.