EPTCall to Action: January 29 Balance Testing - Page 3
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duckk
United States622 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
I'm really happy to see Minigun open with phoenix here, it should help the P control the harass possibilities of the SHs once flying locusts is researched a lot. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 30 2015 08:58 ZeromuS wrote: It also limits the transitions that people can do afterwards. Thats the important thing to note about the gas cost. It also means that you are either going SHs later, or you go them more zergling heavy instead of e.g. roaches. Which plays a huge role in holding timing pushes. Theorycrafting, going SHs in the midgame vs Mech sounds like a massive coinflip since you shouldn't be able to hold anything including some hellbats. Especially given the 60second waves of locusts instead of 30seconds. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On January 30 2015 09:09 Pontius Pirate wrote: From the first few games, I'm thinking that the dps could be lowered a bit in exchange for a slightly faster respawn timer, a higher creep speed bonus, and the ability to have locusts return to the air after landing. Agree. Lower DPS but slightly faster cooldown could be interesting to try. | ||
Jer99
Canada8159 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On January 30 2015 08:56 phodacbiet wrote: I think you underestimate how much +100 gas and +1 supply is. 200 gas is a lot for one unit, and the +1 supply makes it so you cant make too many SH or else your army will just be walked over. Keep in mind that the cool down is pretty long for the SH. Too many SH and youll have dead supplies for like 30 seconds. I consider the Ghost cost change to cost less gas and more minerals as a nerf in combination with Bio. And if you watch Swarmhosts heavy games, the Zerg usually floats gas. This change makes it basically easier to get more spines and spores out. That is assuming that Swarmhosts still functions like now. And since spines and spores don't cost supply and the Locust are basically stronger the increased supply makes it only easier to clear Locust waves. Well it would if they wouldn't fly and avoid the stronger AoEs that way. I can easily see them working like Infestors WoL style now. Except they don't even need energy and are not psionic so snipe and EMP/Feedback doesn't work. Trade and then hide behind the spine forest. But I really need to test this more though. And you can outrun almost everything not Zerg based :p . But they do need more control now. Nothing the Koreans aren't already doing. But it won't be that easy anymore. Probably the reason why they got better in almost all fields. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Just build 30mutalisks instead of 15 of them. Way better at harassing. Way better at defending. Provide antiair. Are much faster. Neither of them can combat. But mutas can basetrade. Like in the Goswser game... he builds 30mutas and actually harasses. Forces pheonixes instead of the Protoss being able to build the deathball he wants. Like the Pet vs iaguz game on Overgrowth. Instead of forcing mass turrets at once location and sometimes picking up a tank, forcing mass turrets at all locations and picking up anything left and right. | ||
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Quateras
Germany867 Posts
They aren't an actual unit to win you big fights anymore, they seem more of a harass unit to have out on the map in numbers of 4-6 and actively harass. (8-12 mutas would definetely be worse at harassing than 4-6 swarmhosts with their new insane DPS) Incase of blinkstalkers, you simply use speedlings, you already have out on your map (as gosuuser had but didnt use) Seems like a good Unit for offensive zergs that enjoy multitasking over the defensive players now. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On January 30 2015 09:14 Jer99 wrote: Lowering the cooldown would just result in the previous iteration of swarmhosts, that's what blizzard wants to avoid Nah, only if you lowered it by a shitload. The cooldown was previously effectively 27 seconds with 15 second locusts. Once enduring was researched, it was 27 seconds with 25 second locusts. That's only 2 seconds of punishment time for counterattacks. They are currently on a 60 second respawn timer with 25 second locusts, giving a full 35 seconds for punishment. This is excessive. In fact, without enduring locusts, each wave can already be punished in the 12 seconds of locust-less time. You could lower the timer as far as 40 seconds of respawn time and you'd still have SH's that are not terribly useful defensively. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On January 30 2015 09:15 Big J wrote: Probably saying this for the 3rd or 4th time in a different thread, but I don't see why you would build them at all... Just build 30mutalisks instead of 15 of them. Way better at harassing. Way better at defending. Provide antiair. Are much faster. Neither of them can combat. But mutas can basetrade. Good point. Except higher DPS, 30 mutas do the job better than 15 SHs. It was quite painful to see how harmless they were in the second game, in the first game they looked kinda cool but phoenix into blink colossi shuts them down really really hard. I don't think 4-6 SHs squads would be enough to be a real threat. The locusts are not invincible while they're flying and they're pretty slow. The dream : they remove tempest and swarm host and give us the lurker already. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
They are currently way UP. Possibilities that can help out: - Revert supply and cost nerfs - Make each SH spawn more locusts, maybe 3 or 4 There should definitely be some guaranteed damage when a locusts casts swoop on an enemy unit, kind of like how charge also does guaranteed damage. But in the match I don't think this was the case? | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On January 30 2015 09:21 Lexender wrote: what games are you watching? where? ?_? Showmatches on Nathanias stream. Unfortunately for you, they're over  . | ||
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Ryuhou)aS(
United States1174 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Terran Raven Point Defense Drone duration decreased from 180 seconds to 20 seconds LOL why didn't they just half the duration 1-3 years ago? I mean, leaving it this long then reducing it by a factor of 9 is pretty insane | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On January 30 2015 09:15 Big J wrote: Like in the Goswser game... he builds 30mutas and actually harasses. Forces pheonixes instead of the Protoss being able to build the deathball he wants. Like the Pet vs iaguz game on Overgrowth. Instead of forcing mass turrets at once location and sometimes picking up a tank, forcing mass turrets at all locations and picking up anything left and right. To be perfectly frank, Gosuuser and Petraeus played pretty trash in regards to the new SHs. They repeatedly burrowed their hosts when they were under attack, when they're now fast enough to escape army units, leaving them to be easily picked off and not able to spawn locusts. Furthermore, they rallied their locusts straight into the army. You can't win army vs army with the new SHs, because the respawn timer is too long. You have to use them to pull the opponent in different directions, as is their design goal. Seriously, both of the zerg players were so stubborn that it made me sad to see them used as examples of SH play for the showmatches. Put them in the hands of Impact or Leenock and you've got an extremely different story. | ||
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