EPTFans of Jaedong who only know him from Starcraft 2 don't really understand how incredible he was at Brood War. His muta micro alone was jaw-dropping. I remember one time I saw him rally two Scourge down to the other side of the map at precisely the right time to slam into his opponent's just-hatched mutalisk. He then went on to win that game with muta wars because he was up one muta. He was that good.
Jaedong to play in WCS America Season 2 - Page 3
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Jeremy Reimer
Canada1179 Posts
Fans of Jaedong who only know him from Starcraft 2 don't really understand how incredible he was at Brood War. His muta micro alone was jaw-dropping. I remember one time I saw him rally two Scourge down to the other side of the map at precisely the right time to slam into his opponent's just-hatched mutalisk. He then went on to win that game with muta wars because he was up one muta. He was that good. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 28 2015 04:46 Jeremy Reimer wrote: If he does retire from Starcraft 2, I'd love it if he returned to Korea, started playing Brood War again, and competed in the Sonic Starleague (in my dream he'd get to the final against Bisu and defeat him in a close, exciting set) Fans of Jaedong who only know him from Starcraft 2 don't really understand how incredible he was at Brood War. His muta micro alone was jaw-dropping. I remember one time I saw him rally two Scourge down to the other side of the map at precisely the right time to slam into his opponent's just-hatched mutalisk. He then went on to win that game with muta wars because he was up one muta. He was that good. You don't sign a new contract with a team that has most likely no interest in BW at all, to then retire 2 months later though. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On January 28 2015 03:55 Circumstance wrote: "LOL NA so bad" is not a justification. Moving to a new region for the sole purpose of taking up one of their qualifier spots while contributing little to nothing to their scene is not OK, regardless of region. I feel the same way about Heart in China as I do about JD and Hydra (and potentially Stardust) in NA. god i'm tired of this ugly ignorant attitude. reminds me of people who complain that mexicans "steal jobs" in america. completely discounting the significance of moving to a new country and adapting to a new culture, as if it's something done on a whim as a marginal career move. if someone is willing to move to a new place they have absolutely every right to work any local job they are qualified for, and the local industry should be thankful to have the addition to their talent pool. applies to gaming like anything else. to suggest that people of a different ancestry or national background have less "claim" to honest work is the height of ignorance. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5221 Posts
On January 28 2015 03:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: It's better than having bad players win a lot of money. Who does NA really have right now? Huk, puck, Kane, etc. These guys are okay, but they're shouldn't be the players winning a huge tournament. NA is kind of a joke right now, even compared to EU. So let's keep it a joke then. See the problem with your arguement is that it flies in the face of how talent is created in every other sport. It is ignorant. If Korea decided to create a professional American Football league and paid players the same as the NFL, second rate NFL players from the US would flock to Korea. And there would be almost no Koreans on the teams, because Korea doesn't have the same infrastructure to build talent that the United State has. In the United States players begin in grade school, continue thru middle and high school and into college where they are groomed and learn from the best football coaches in the world. Korea doesn't have that. To expect a league in Korea that pays the same as the NFL to attract Koreans is ludicrous. Sure, you'll have some bench warmers from Korea, but that is what WCS America had too: the lower tier players were from America when the regions weren't locked. The same is true for Starcraft. The US doesn't have the infrastructure to build SC2 talent like Korea does. The US doesn't have the teams, the sponsors, the coaches. But the solution is not simply to import Korean talent and called it fixed. The solution is to make it economically viable for good US players to develop, and the only way to do that is to "pay bad players" from America, in your own words to build an infrastructure. By doing so, you'll increase the number of people in America vying to be a player, that will create teams and attract coaches (possibly from Korea). That is the way to build the American scene, and I said this from the first moment Blizzard decided not to region lock. And look where we are now. Had they region locked from the get-go, the American scene would be in far better shape. On January 28 2015 06:12 brickrd wrote: god i'm tired of this ugly ignorant attitude. reminds me of people who complain that mexicans "steal jobs" in america. completely discounting the significance of moving to a new country and adapting to a new culture, as if it's something done on a whim as a marginal career move. if someone is willing to move to a new place they have absolutely every right to work any local job they are qualified for, and the local industry should be thankful to have the addition to their talent pool. applies to gaming like anything else. to suggest that people of a different ancestry or national background have less "claim" to honest work is the height of ignorance. Your logic applies well to pretty much every industry, except entertainment. In entertainment it is about drawing eyeballs, not so much talent. Basically, what you are saying, is that I should think a woman is beautiful because she has won a bunch of beauty awards (or talented in the case of SC2), but beauty is in the eye of beholder. But people want to cheer for whomever they like. And a lot of people (dare I say most people, including me) like to cheer for the underdog, someone different than who usually wins, and someone they can relate too, and someone from their area. Is it ignorant? Sure, but you can't tell people who they think is beautiful or what kind of music requires more talent, and is therefore "better." Jaedong is really hard for me to relate too. Even if he is more talented than Idra, I don't go out of my way to watch him. But I went way out of my way to watch Idra, and I go out of my way to watch other players I like too. And because this industry thrives on money from drawing eyes balls, your logic just doesn't pan out. | ||
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Jeremy Reimer
Canada1179 Posts
On January 28 2015 05:00 OtherWorld wrote: You don't sign a new contract with a team that has most likely no interest in BW at all, to then retire 2 months later though. No, I meant in another year or two, after his current contract expires. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On January 28 2015 06:23 BronzeKnee wrote: So let's keep it a joke then. See the problem with you're arguement is that it flies in the face of how talent is created in every other sport. It is ignorant. If Korea decided to create a professional American Football league and paid players the same as the NFL, NFL players from the US would flock to Korea. And there would be almost no Koreans on the teams, because Korea doesn't have the same infrastructure to build talent that the United State has. In the United States players begin in grade school, continue thru middle and high school and into college where they are groomed and learn from the best football coaches in the world. Korea doesn't have that. To expect a league in Korea that pays the same as the NFL to attract Koreans is ludicrous. Sure, you'll have some bench warmers from Korea, but that is what WCS America had too: the lower tier players were from America when the regions weren't locked. The same is true for Starcraft. The US doesn't have the infrastructure to build SC2 talent like Korea does. The US doesn't have the teams, the sponsors, the coaches. The solution is not simply to import Korean talent and called it fixed. The solution is to make it economically viable for good US players to develop, and the only way to do that is to "pay bad players" from America, in your own words. By doing so, you'll increase the number of people in America vying to be a player, that will create teams and attract coaches (possibly from Korea). That is the way to build the American scene, and I said this from the first moment Blizzard decided not to region lock. And look where we are now. Had they region locked from the get-go, the American scene would be in far better shape. but people don't want to watch foreign sc2. i don't mind watching it, but generally people prefer korean talent. TB already proved this even while he was trying his best to prove the opposite. the viewership isn't there. so you can't really expect anyone to dump money into a scene that hasn't proven itself economically viable just for the sake of "so foreigners can be good too." people don't have an inherent right to succeed at the same rate in every region of the world. if you open a sushi restaraunt in a rural texas village you can't cry foul when no one shows up because no one wants sushi. if someone is generous enough to develop the scene at cost to themselves then sure that's great. but blixzard doesn't have to make all parts of the world equal just for the sake of equality. it is a business. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5221 Posts
And god-forbid if a foreigner won, just imagine that... the hype for SC2 would go through the roof. But Blizzard killed that hype with non-region locked WCS. I also used to enjoy going from GSL to non-Korean tournaments. It was fun to watch both. But then when they didn't region WCS we only got to watch one: Korean tournaments. We got second rate Koreans in America and top tier in Korea. Variety was thus removed. They aren't doing for the sake of equality! It is business and my response to your comment shows that. | ||
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
On January 28 2015 06:12 brickrd wrote: god i'm tired of this ugly ignorant attitude. reminds me of people who complain that mexicans "steal jobs" in america. completely discounting the significance of moving to a new country and adapting to a new culture, as if it's something done on a whim as a marginal career move. if someone is willing to move to a new place they have absolutely every right to work any local job they are qualified for, and the local industry should be thankful to have the addition to their talent pool. applies to gaming like anything else. to suggest that people of a different ancestry or national background have less "claim" to honest work is the height of ignorance. No, the height of ignorance is comparing people with diverse backgrounds and experiences moving from Mexico to the US to start a new life as equivalent to a dude coming to the US because he saw it as an easier opportunity to grab onto money and fame. If WCS did not require visas, this thread would not exist. Period. Qualifier spots are inherently fixed in number. Jobs in general are not. Your example of Mexican immigration includes people who are doing work that would otherwise not be done, and contributes to their society's growth. As discussed earlier, these new players coming in and laying claim to the American qualification are, if anything, shrinking the NA scene. The economy Mexicans are immigrating into is growing. The scene the Koreans are moving for is slowly shrinking, and will continue to slowly shrink for at least the remainder oF the current expansion. SC2 is the ONLY esport in which one's nation of birth can pre-ordain whether they will have any chance whatsoever to become a success. It is the ONLY esport in which the flags in the finals can be filled in before a tournament starts and almost always be right. And that will NOT change if the few opportunities foreigners have are drained by these "big decisions". | ||
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sharkie
Austria18659 Posts
On January 28 2015 06:34 brickrd wrote: but people don't want to watch foreign sc2. i don't mind watching it, but generally people prefer korean talent. TB already proved this even while he was trying his best to prove the opposite. the viewership isn't there. so you can't really expect anyone to dump money into a scene that hasn't proven itself economically viable just for the sake of "so foreigners can be good too." people don't have an inherent right to succeed at the same rate in every region of the world. if you open a sushi restaraunt in a rural texas village you can't cry foul when no one shows up because no one wants sushi. if someone is generous enough to develop the scene at cost to themselves then sure that's great. but blixzard doesn't have to make all parts of the world equal just for the sake of equality. it is a business. oh people want to see foreign sc2, they want to see foreign sc2 defeat Koreans, nothing will attract more viewers than foreigners go far in tournaments where Koreans participated in. 2014 was pretty poor in that regard (Sen and Bunny's victories weren't in high profile tournaments like DH, IEM, RB or WCS :/) | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5221 Posts
On January 28 2015 06:45 sharkie wrote: oh people want to see foreign sc2, they want to see foreign sc2 defeat Koreans, nothing will attract more viewers than foreigners go far in tournaments where Koreans participated in. 2014 was pretty poor in that regard (Sen and Bunny's victories weren't in high profile tournaments like DH, IEM, RB or WCS :/) Bingo, and the way to get there is to invest in foreigners. | ||
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Naikonz
Romania65 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On January 28 2015 06:50 Naikonz wrote: I'm a big Jaedong fan and I'm just happy he keeps playing StarCraft 2. Hopefully, it will be a year closer to 2013 than 2014. Remember the 2013 Jaedong? He was a BEAST. I still remember 2007-2010 Jaedong. | ||
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xtorn
4060 Posts
On January 28 2015 04:00 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: Gonna be less north americans in premier than last year XDD ...and blizzard is on #TryHard mode to switch this around. maybe they're just not trying enough. | ||
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
On one hand, we have only eight WCS NA spots available, and already three are filled by Koreans. With JD probably taking another spot, that means in Season 2 we will see four Koreans taking the WCS NA spots. That leaves only four more left to the North Americans. Compared to EU, which has 14 slots, with only one taken by a Korean. This puts the North American scene in dire straits. In the other side, we have a weak NA scene that could use talented ringers from Korea to bolster the region and help others become better by providing the much needed stiff competition. Having Koreans participating in WCS NA is both a blessing and curse, but its not a 50/50 distribution. I feel in the short term, it hurts the NA scene a lot. We have so few coveted spots, that taking them away from some of the hard working players from Canada, USA, and Mexico further hurts the scene. In the long run though, it helps the NA scene. With players like JD providing the NA players with high calibre competition, they themselves will improve and become better players. We will see how things develop in the NA scene. For now, lets just keep an open mind. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23579 Posts
http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/view.php?ud=2015012808383811993 Edit: Thanks Mal! | ||
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ilovegroov
357 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On January 28 2015 08:57 ilovegroov wrote: If a ton of Koreans actually end up switching, maybe time to just make Nationality a requirement? I for one am tired of B-Tier Koreans. So very tired. Obviously it should be by citizenship. Anyone with any ounce of common sense or foresight would have known this in 2012, let alone by now. The only alternative, that isn't incredibly unprofessional and 100% death of the scene, is to have alloted spots for people that aren't citizens of that region. If there were a tournament where 3 non NA citizens could qualify for WCS NA, then maybe that would be OK. With how WCS is now, I have absolutely 0 idea why anyone would get this game or why we shouldn't expect to see the same handful of people each WCS. Even if you qualify, with how it is now, you'd have to be depressed about the future of the game. | ||
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
On January 28 2015 09:09 playa wrote: Obviously it should be by citizenship. Anyone with any ounce of common sense or foresight would have known this in 2012, let alone by now. The only alternative, that isn't incredibly unprofessional and 100% death of the scene, is to have alloted spots for people that aren't citizens of that region. If there were a tournament where 3 non NA citizens could qualify for WCS NA, then maybe that would be OK. With how WCS is now, I have absolutely 0 idea why anyone would get this game or why we shouldn't expect to see the same handful of people each WCS. Even if you qualify, with how it is now, you'd have to be depressed about the future of the game. I understand you, but don't you think you are exaggerating a little bit? I highly doubt we will see dozens of Koreans immigrating to North America because of WCS. However, you do make a great point. So few North Americans are participating that we will unlikely see new blood enter WCS NA. I think that is a greater detriment than Koreans participating in WCS NA. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On January 28 2015 09:16 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: I understand you, but don't you think you are exaggerating a little bit? I highly doubt we will see dozens of Koreans immigrating to North America because of WCS. However, you do make a great point. So few North Americans are participating that we will unlikely see new blood enter WCS NA. I think that is a greater detriment than Koreans participating in WCS NA. Absolutely not. There is no way in hell I would have ever got this game if WCS was like it is now. Not only is WCS bad, but as soon as they made changes for 2013, the number of non WCS tournaments decreased dramatically. WCS NA went from 64 spots for actual North Americans, to what it is today. A tournament for a handful of NA players who played from day 1 and were lucky enough to become full time pros when it was possible... If you haven't been a full time pro from day 1, how many spots are there? 2? The game is dying because it's not being treated like a sport. No sport would thrive with such a ridiculous tournament. SC 2 is nearing the relevancy of tether ball. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more incentive in tether ball to try to be a competitive player in NA. I'm absolutely embarrassed by WCS, and I don't have anything to do with it. You should expect to see the same handful of people because the guys who are qualifying are largely doing so because they have played way more games than the competition (full time pros). So when they do qualify, the nearest competition has no incentive to even play (since WCS killed off other tournaments, too). Thus, you end up in a cycle with the same players and literally no one has a realistic chance to get in. The players who improve the more most are the ones who qualify. This is what happens when your game only supports a handful of people. | ||
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