On January 13 2015 00:31 The_Red_Viper wrote: I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free. Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content...
Well, it USED to be top quality content, with access to an amazing VOD system. But now? Other organizations have just as good, if not better produced content, and their VOD system is almost non-existent. They also did this with no heads up, and essentially pulled the rug out from under a lot of people, which is just not very smart no matter what side of this debate you're on.
This is the problem most reasonable people are having. We're being asked to continue to pay a premium price for content that is no longer premium. That's the bottom line for me. I would happily pay (and have done so in the past) money for eSports, but I'm not going to just throw money at random events/tournaments "for eSports". That's a pretty terrible way to go about growing your scene, as it doesn't lead to anything substantial or lasting. It's why I have such an issue with kickstarters popping up everywhere for various eSports related things as well.
i am always amazed by how much "esports" fans feel entitled to free stuff. i dont support this gom decision by any means, nor will it force my hand to subscribe, and no i am not trying to make apologies for an obvious dick move (they could've at least left us with medium), however, i just cant understand ppl who protest because they have to pay for a premium quality service...
i bet most of us spend more on drinking in a month than we do on esports in a year, yet only one of those activities we enjoy on daily basis... i guess its even worse for other games, sc2 supposedly has more senior following than games like dota/lol... still...
On January 13 2015 04:09 snailz wrote: i am always amazed by how much "esports" fans feel entitled to free stuff. i dont support this gom decision by any means, nor will it force my hand to subscribe, and no i am not trying to make apologies for an obvious dick move (they could've at least left us with medium), however, i just cant understand ppl who protest because they have to pay for a premium quality service...
i bet most of us spend more on drinking in a month than we do on esports in a year, yet only one of those activities we enjoy on daily basis... i guess its even worse for other games, sc2 supposedly has more senior following than games like dota/lol... still...
There are a hundred ways to monetize esports and restricting something as simple as viewership is possibly the worst way to go about it. But hey, its only us entitled and spoiled "esports" fans complaining so who cares?
Also, you are very funny. 'Premium quality service' - do you mean a watchable stream? Point me in the direction of another major esport title or organization with such a policy. Please, it shouldn't take long I imagine considering there are plenty of 'premium quality services' out there in esports.
On January 13 2015 04:09 snailz wrote: i am always amazed by how much "esports" fans feel entitled to free stuff. i dont support this gom decision by any means, nor will it force my hand to subscribe, and no i am not trying to make apologies for an obvious dick move (they could've at least left us with medium), however, i just cant understand ppl who protest because they have to pay for a premium quality service...
i bet most of us spend more on drinking in a month than we do on esports in a year, yet only one of those activities we enjoy on daily basis... i guess its even worse for other games, sc2 supposedly has more senior following than games like dota/lol... still...
Why do some people keep saying entitled? I was one of the people against pirate bay in the one thread (pay for Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, Twitch, and Crunchyroll; I only obtain items legally). Again, a company says one thing and does another is bad business and actually illegal in many countries as false advertisement, fraud. It's not about entitlement, at least for me. I can afford it, but refuse do to the circumstances.
I doubt this move will make more people subscribe but if it does I am fine with it. I only really want to watch the semis and final anyway so I will watch that in low quality. Proleague is enough for me right now.
guys, relax, my point was very clear, and it wasn't about calling anyone out... all i am saying is that to organize high-exposure event such as GSL (premium tournament by anyone's standards, i hope) while keeping it sustainable long-term, requires healthy finances... just because we see a lot of similar quality products out there right now due to "esports" growth and rise of popularity globally, does not mean we will see it in a year, or so...
people keep forgetting about other "giants" that went under, and act as if GSL being here today is a given. my point was it is not. while i do agree there are other ways to monetize the industry, i would never just expect it. it's a business, if it will be run like one, it will have its own model. i dont have to like that model, and neither should you, and we can express that dissatisfaction by not subscribing. however, it gets weird when you go on the internet and demand xy from people who provided us with free entertainment for years, in my opinion. this demanding tone is also why others use word entitled i guess.
anyways, just look at how some ppl are reacting in this thread and you will hopefully see what i mean... if not, that's all right too
On January 13 2015 04:09 snailz wrote: i am always amazed by how much "esports" fans feel entitled to free stuff. i dont support this gom decision by any means, nor will it force my hand to subscribe, and no i am not trying to make apologies for an obvious dick move (they could've at least left us with medium), however, i just cant understand ppl who protest because they have to pay for a premium quality service...
i bet most of us spend more on drinking in a month than we do on esports in a year, yet only one of those activities we enjoy on daily basis... i guess its even worse for other games, sc2 supposedly has more senior following than games like dota/lol... still...
Why do some people keep saying entitled? I was one of the people against pirate bay in the one thread (pay for Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, Twitch, and Crunchyroll; I only obtain items legally). Again, a company says one thing and does another is bad business and actually illegal in many countries as false advertisement, fraud. It's not about entitlement, at least for me. I can afford it, but refuse do to the circumstances.
Because anyone who can read couldn't possibly say that GOM/Blizzard promised that.
On January 12 2015 21:37 dUTtrOACh wrote: Not much by way of optimism going on here (regarding growth of SC2), considering the fact that LotV hasn't even been released yet. Anybody who's stoically convinced that SC2 won't grow anymore and GOM needs to rape eyeballs to gouge money out of the fan-base is wrong, IMO.
I don't think Broodwar's player-base reached its peak during it's development, but later. Its status as an eSport didn't even exist until years after it was finished.
SC2's player-base will see a large rejuvenation when LotV comes out. People who haven't played in ages will be playing again, and a small percentage will be wanting to watch some eSports. There still exists some potential growth to this very niche market - growth which should be facilitated, not hindered.
I still stand by what I said. If GOM is struggling, they are struggling because they don't treat all their customers the same. If we're self-entitled for wanting GOM to adhere to the WCS guidelines for what a free stream should be then Korean fans must be many times more self-entitled because they get everything for free (including pizza if they come to the studio). GOM is not managed very well and their business strategy is both flawed and unethical.
Unethical just because of price discrimination? I rather call this standard capitalistic profit optimization.
In Korea, Gom has to fight BW popularity and is not in position to charge money for SC2. Outside Korea, they have to offer the highest level of SC2 play. (And they need to produce an English cast.)
On January 13 2015 04:09 snailz wrote: i am always amazed by how much "esports" fans feel entitled to free stuff. i dont support this gom decision by any means, nor will it force my hand to subscribe, and no i am not trying to make apologies for an obvious dick move (they could've at least left us with medium), however, i just cant understand ppl who protest because they have to pay for a premium quality service...
i bet most of us spend more on drinking in a month than we do on esports in a year, yet only one of those activities we enjoy on daily basis... i guess its even worse for other games, sc2 supposedly has more senior following than games like dota/lol... still...
I'm happy to pay, and did for years (despite GOM always having slightly lower quality video than everyone else) because they had a perfect VOD system for those of us who couldn't watch live. Now they are offering lower quality subscriptions so I'm going to stop paying. Doing stuff like not giving the casters an observer PC, and now this just make me even less inclined to bother watching them at all.
On January 13 2015 00:31 The_Red_Viper wrote: I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free. Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content...
Because we have years and years of esport experiences to prove otherwise mostly...
If people don't wanna pay for watching esports i doubt it will get anywhere, simple as that tbh.
TBH you don't know what you are talking about. The last time a popular esport went behind a giant paywall that I can remember because it was a 'quality' production was when the Championship Gaming Series consolidated all the best CS players/teams into a single televised tournament that you could only watch if your parents subscribed to Direct TV. This was nearly a decade ago. Suffice to say, that was when I and many others stopped following cs completely, and when that league folded, pretty much the entire North American pro playerbase folded with it. Look it up, do some research, this is NOT how you grow your viewer base or grow the game. Don't be surprised if tastosis get canned or the free stream disappears completely. Don't be surprised of GOM disappears completely.
I say if people in esports are not ok with paying for any content i am not sure how it ever will be "legit". If you wanna consume any medium you should pay for it, it IS as easy as that. I didn't reference any historical events here, it is more about the general idea. Most people are completely ok with paying for books/movies/whatever (obviously there are others as well, but duh), i don't see any difference here. Gomtv produces content, if you wanna watch it you should pay for it. Obviously this incident is weird/bad cause the rules say gomtv needs to have one for free (which makes sense if you wanna have the highest viewer numbers obviously).
You just dont understand something. How can a Sport be "legit", when it starts to become completly behind a paywall. And thats this crappy resolution of GomExp atm, you can take it as a real bad radio cast or pixelcrap doing pixelcrap. Most Sports dont sit behind paywalls, I can watch World Cup, ChampionsLeague, Super Bowl, Formula 1, everything for free completly financed with ads. We see a whole new branch devolping on youtube, showing how people live from generating free content for their viewers, and they do not live bad from it. And they got a natural enemy with SpoTV and its products and all other esport products on OGN and Co. All these products are delivered in 720p or 1080p, a good vod system and much more. And Gom? Starts making former free contet behind a paywall. This is the start of the end. In Germany, many Newspapers tried to hied their content behind paywalls, the conclusion was, that they lost so many viewers, that they lost far more add money then they gained by the payments.
I supported Gom Exp last year with Subs the whole year, shared the HOT6 Cup Trailers with friends, told em watch the vods, how cool it is and so on. And now they ask me if this is "the best product of SCII", when they accidently watch a war of pixel, while even Sonics SSL looks better and it has a 16 year old game!
This situation gets worse, when you can watch the korean stream for free (undergoing the region block via proxy) and then see how the stream gets downvoted harsh and has maybe 700 viewers.
I'm gonna miss you GSL... I can't afford to sub, and I can't afford to dedicate myself to cruel 240p Paywalling moneygrabbers known as Greedxp! I am running out of options, and I can't really think of much else to say.
They are the only esports league to make such a move nowadays.. Why don't they learn from proleague/OGN/SSL/ESEA/(BW LEAGUES WITH HD)? :'(
To be honest, the quality of the video doesn't even seem that bad. Reading this thread made me think it was way worse. I haven't watched a game in it yet, though.
Edit: Watching my first game, figuring out the exact supplies is not easy, but you can still easily figure out what is happening on the screen. I guess counting the exact number of zerglings is difficult.
Sponsor must question themselves if this tournament is worth for them, players have the possibility of money and wcs points but the sponsor exposure is lame.
I think GSL are shooting themselves in the foot here. Would be interesting to see if there is a notable difference in viewer numbers related to the quality change for free viewers.
On January 14 2015 19:16 Bojas wrote: I think GSL are shooting themselves in the foot here. Would be interesting to see if there is a notable difference in viewer numbers related to the quality change for free viewers.
As far as I can tell they already have lower numbers today than on average (~15-20k). Don't know if it's just a coincidence or not, though.
EPT
