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On January 12 2015 06:16 anessie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 05:44 sagi wrote:
The biggest issue in my opinion is the new viewer aspect. Nobody is going to watch that blurry mess unless they're deeply interested in the game already; nobody is going to pay $14 for a league stream they aren't already familiar with.
I've succesfully introduced friends to SC by simply watching games with them when they are visiting, advertising tournament streams online and making "best games" vod lists. One of them complained about the stream quality in the gomtv.net era and he opted for other content then... Well I'm actually happy tasteless isn't like explaining shit about "see guys & girls they control units and have bases and they build armies and they need economy". Cause in more open events casters have done stuff like that, the complete basics is not what I want to hear after watching years of esports games. It's better to discover sc2 by watching youtube content. Screw that introduction to the game crap, it's the GSL, it's where you come when all that other free stuff isn't enough! Remember you decide yourself to watch it HQ or LQ or ..not at all. It's clear gomexp only looks at the Asian/S-Korean market for the new viewer aspect while milking the rest of the world for some cash to keep a dying expansion on air. I'm sure they will launch some free to watch (beta) Legacy of the Void startup tournament at some point.
Well he never said he wasn't happy about exactly that.
All he said was that in his experience players that are not part of the SC2 world already are put off by not wanting to watch low resolution streams. How you interpreted that as saying that he wishes that every cast was actually a beginners guuide to SC2 is beyond me.
Stop shoving words down the guys throat.
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On January 12 2015 05:45 alphaboss wrote:
The stream quality + bitrate is so low, you are forced to estimate army size and composition by the colored pixel-blobs on the screen. It does not appear as 360p (welcome back to 2010)
Low quality is unbearable and incredibly frustrating to watch. It literally causes a headache! :'[
Thats right!!! and forget reading supply or mins or gas...
Infact I would have preferred it if they made all qualities sub only...
having low free to view only is a massive SMACK IN THE MOUTH!!!! Even b4 when medium was non sub...I used to feel like..."Gom come on,,,really???" What is the point of low fps 360p?? Mobile devices only...
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On January 12 2015 07:01 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 06:16 anessie wrote:On January 12 2015 05:44 sagi wrote:
The biggest issue in my opinion is the new viewer aspect. Nobody is going to watch that blurry mess unless they're deeply interested in the game already; nobody is going to pay $14 for a league stream they aren't already familiar with.
I've succesfully introduced friends to SC by simply watching games with them when they are visiting, advertising tournament streams online and making "best games" vod lists. One of them complained about the stream quality in the gomtv.net era and he opted for other content then... Well I'm actually happy tasteless isn't like explaining shit about "see guys & girls they control units and have bases and they build armies and they need economy". Cause in more open events casters have done stuff like that, the complete basics is not what I want to hear after watching years of esports games. It's better to discover sc2 by watching youtube content. Screw that introduction to the game crap, it's the GSL, it's where you come when all that other free stuff isn't enough! Remember you decide yourself to watch it HQ or LQ or ..not at all. It's clear gomexp only looks at the Asian/S-Korean market for the new viewer aspect while milking the rest of the world for some cash to keep a dying expansion on air. I'm sure they will launch some free to watch (beta) Legacy of the Void startup tournament at some point. Well he never said he wasn't happy about exactly that. All he said was that in his experience players that are not part of the SC2 world already are put off by not wanting to watch low resolution streams. How you interpreted that as saying that he wishes that every cast was actually a beginners guuide to SC2 is beyond me. Stop shoving words down the guys throat.
Thank you for saving me the effort to say exactly this. But just in case this dude still doesn't get it: I have no idea where you got the idea I somehow ment that people new to the game need patronizing casting. That has never been the problem. If there has been a need for special introduction I've covered it myself (which is completely fine).
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i've worked out the trick!
Watch it on your iphone or mini android device (like sony/galaxy)! That way, even if it was med or high quality, it wouldnt make a difference!!.... :-/
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On January 12 2015 11:27 worosei wrote:
i've worked out the trick!
Watch it on your iphone or mini android device (like sony/galaxy)! That way, even if it was med or high quality, it wouldnt make a difference!!.... :-/
Will prepare my old nokia 3310 for tomorrow.
Just as general thought - Gom may not be so bad, they may be just hungry for more money before LotV comes out. After that many people will get to SC2 over again... right now they may just want to milk the hardcore audience.
Pathetic situation.
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So... anyone who is checking out starcraft2 for the first time, gets this shit on his plate, and disregards it immediately ?
They really are squeezing the last juice out of the orange here, weow.
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On January 12 2015 17:53 BlueStar wrote:
Just as general thought - Gom may not be so bad, they may be just hungry for more money before LotV comes out. After that many people will get to SC2 over again... right now they may just want to milk the hardcore audience.
Pathetic situation.
I am sure they said 4 yrs ago that they need foreigner money to pay tastosis monthly salaries (this is the only one reason). Without it -> no tastosis (maybe even no foreigner stream). Korean stream/scene has no influence about it, koreanHD is free as usual.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On January 10 2015 03:13 Seeker wrote:Regarding GOM eXP's terrible VOD system: Last October, I contacted GOM and explained to them that the majority of GOM eXP related feedback pertained to the terrible VOD system that exists right now. Here is the response that I received: Show nested quote +We are currently aware of the displeasure from our viewers regarding the bad VOD system. Unfortunately, due to our service coalition with twitch, what we have currently is the best we can do with VODs.
Back when we were GOMTV.net, we had our own webpage dedicated to VODs and we even had our own player. But as of right now, we have to use the twitch and YouTube systems so we cannot freely change our services as we'd like to. We are looking into securing a better and improved VOD viewing process for 2015. However, there is no announcement date for this yet.
On January 10 2015 03:57 kc2siq wrote:
I've spent $200+ on gomtv.net but have yet to spend a single penny on gomexp. It's a shame, I really loved GOMTV.net and I still love the GSL because of all the memories. I used to pay for the quality when I was a college student and could stay up early in the morning.
But with a full-time job now, the vods are far more important to me and the shitty vod service just doesn't warrant it me paying.
At least with proleague, there're free videos up on esportstv.
On January 10 2015 08:51 AzBozz wrote:
ill never forget the vods on the gom page. it was just perfect. i never understood why they changed it
On January 10 2015 16:29 tenklavir wrote:
Has nothing to do with money for me. I bought the yearly ticket for GOMTV every year, but the Twitch/Youtube VOD structure is unusable compared to GOMTV.net and especially their mobile site which I used to love watching on my tablet. Since the move, I have not subscribed...just hoping they go back some day.
All these posts and more. I subbed on gomtv.net for years and the money isn't/wasn't an issue. Then they moved over to twitch and I subscribed for 1-2 seasons max before giving up in frustration at the atrocious VOD system. I don't really get how I'm expected to pay a similar amount as before for an infinitely worse product. And worse, they seem to understand it's a worse product, and yet...
I'd love to subscribe to GSL but I'm just not going to pay a similar amount of money for a significantly worse service than I got 3 years ago.
I'm sure I'm part of a fairly sizeable group of people who would happily pay the subscription if only it were worth paying for, like in the past.
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Not much by way of optimism going on here (regarding growth of SC2), considering the fact that LotV hasn't even been released yet. Anybody who's stoically convinced that SC2 won't grow anymore and GOM needs to rape eyeballs to gouge money out of the fan-base is wrong, IMO.
I don't think Broodwar's player-base reached its peak during it's development, but later. Its status as an eSport didn't even exist until years after it was finished.
SC2's player-base will see a large rejuvenation when LotV comes out. People who haven't played in ages will be playing again, and a small percentage will be wanting to watch some eSports. There still exists some potential growth to this very niche market - growth which should be facilitated, not hindered.
I still stand by what I said. If GOM is struggling, they are struggling because they don't treat all their customers the same. If we're self-entitled for wanting GOM to adhere to the WCS guidelines for what a free stream should be then Korean fans must be many times more self-entitled because they get everything for free (including pizza if they come to the studio). GOM is not managed very well and their business strategy is both flawed and unethical.
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On January 12 2015 21:37 dUTtrOACh wrote:
Not much by way of optimism going on here (regarding growth of SC2), considering the fact that LotV hasn't even been released yet. Anybody who's stoically convinced that SC2 won't grow anymore and GOM needs to rape eyeballs to gouge money out of the fan-base is wrong, IMO.
I don't think Broodwar's player-base reached its peak during it's development, but later. Its status as an eSport didn't even exist until years after it was finished.
SC2's player-base will see a large rejuvenation when LotV comes out. People who haven't played in ages will be playing again, and a small percentage will be wanting to watch some eSports. There still exists some potential growth to this very niche market - growth which should be facilitated, not hindered.
I still stand by what I said. If GOM is struggling, they are struggling because they don't treat all their customers the same. If we're self-entitled for wanting GOM to adhere to the WCS guidelines for what a free stream should be then Korean fans must be many times more self-entitled because they get everything for free (including pizza if they come to the studio). GOM is not managed very well and their business strategy is both flawed and unethical.
Well said. How unethical could you be to charge people depending on what region they live in.
Gom should be called Greedxp. Viewers certainly should not be forced into paying for MEDIUM quality streams, to fund Tastosis (or whatever sad excuse they have).
Something needs to change.
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I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free.
Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content...
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On January 13 2015 00:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free.
Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content...
Because we have years and years of esport experiences to prove otherwise mostly...
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On January 13 2015 01:03 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 00:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free.
Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content... Because we have years and years of esport experiences to prove otherwise mostly...
If people don't wanna pay for watching esports i doubt it will get anywhere, simple as that tbh.
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On January 13 2015 01:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 01:03 Noocta wrote:On January 13 2015 00:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free.
Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content... Because we have years and years of esport experiences to prove otherwise mostly... If people don't wanna pay for watching esports i doubt it will get anywhere, simple as that tbh.
As I've said earlier:
+ Show Spoiler +
It's about a company stating one thing and another company, part working in unison with main company, not abiding by that. That's false advertisement and favoritism; it will look poorly to outside parties, such as newcomers, returners, and/or sponsors.
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On January 13 2015 01:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 01:03 Noocta wrote:On January 13 2015 00:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free.
Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content... Because we have years and years of esport experiences to prove otherwise mostly... If people don't wanna pay for watching esports i doubt it will get anywhere, simple as that tbh.
TBH you don't know what you are talking about. The last time a popular esport went behind a giant paywall that I can remember because it was a 'quality' production was when the Championship Gaming Series consolidated all the best CS players/teams into a single televised tournament that you could only watch if your parents subscribed to Direct TV. This was nearly a decade ago. Suffice to say, that was when I and many others stopped following cs completely, and when that league folded, pretty much the entire North American pro playerbase folded with it. Look it up, do some research, this is NOT how you grow your viewer base or grow the game. Don't be surprised if tastosis get canned or the free stream disappears completely. Don't be surprised of GOM disappears completely.
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On January 13 2015 01:28 johnbongham wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 01:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 13 2015 01:03 Noocta wrote:On January 13 2015 00:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free.
Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content... Because we have years and years of esport experiences to prove otherwise mostly... If people don't wanna pay for watching esports i doubt it will get anywhere, simple as that tbh. TBH you don't know what you are talking about. The last time a popular esport went behind a giant paywall that I can remember because it was a 'quality' production was when the Championship Gaming Series consolidated all the best CS players/teams into a single televised tournament that you could only watch if your parents subscribed to Direct TV. This was nearly a decade ago. Suffice to say, that was when I and many others stopped following cs completely, and when that league folded, pretty much the entire North American pro playerbase folded with it. Look it up, do some research, this is NOT how you grow your viewer base or grow the game. Don't be surprised if tastosis get canned or the free stream disappears completely. Don't be surprised of GOM disappears completely.
I say if people in esports are not ok with paying for any content i am not sure how it ever will be "legit".
If you wanna consume any medium you should pay for it, it IS as easy as that.
I didn't reference any historical events here, it is more about the general idea.
Most people are completely ok with paying for books/movies/whatever (obviously there are others as well, but duh), i don't see any difference here.
Gomtv produces content, if you wanna watch it you should pay for it.
Obviously this incident is weird/bad cause the rules say gomtv needs to have one for free (which makes sense if you wanna have the highest viewer numbers obviously).
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This is really a shame. Paywalling is inexcusable and incredibly damaging for the scene and gom itself. Maybe they will reap some short term profits, but it's very short sighted. I always supported gom, but now, they're going to need to basically go the proleague way with free 1080p vods and stream to bring back my confidence.
How is interest in their tournament ever going to grow if people tune in to a crappy 240p stream with a lower bitrate than that mp3 file you extracted from a youtube video?
Why can proleague offer 1080p vod and stream for free, but not gom? And why do they think that in an oversaturated population of quality starcraft tournaments, being the only one to paywall is going to do any good?
On this whole "you need to pay because they produce content" story. No. Simply no. Complete bullshit. Money is just an abstraction of energy. There are other ways to support, like watching and thus raising the viewer number.
Wolf said during last week's proleague broadcast that the best way to support proleague is not to subscribe or pay, but by watching and telling your friends, raising the viewer numbers.
How is gom ever going to get more viewers if you have to go through time wasting money costing payment activities? If you found a new website or show you had never heard of, and wanted to get a general impression, the first thing you do once you see you have to pay to get anything, is forget about it. At least, 99% of the time for 99% of the people.
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On January 13 2015 02:04 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 01:28 johnbongham wrote:On January 13 2015 01:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 13 2015 01:03 Noocta wrote:On January 13 2015 00:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free.
Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content... Because we have years and years of esport experiences to prove otherwise mostly... If people don't wanna pay for watching esports i doubt it will get anywhere, simple as that tbh. TBH you don't know what you are talking about. The last time a popular esport went behind a giant paywall that I can remember because it was a 'quality' production was when the Championship Gaming Series consolidated all the best CS players/teams into a single televised tournament that you could only watch if your parents subscribed to Direct TV. This was nearly a decade ago. Suffice to say, that was when I and many others stopped following cs completely, and when that league folded, pretty much the entire North American pro playerbase folded with it. Look it up, do some research, this is NOT how you grow your viewer base or grow the game. Don't be surprised if tastosis get canned or the free stream disappears completely. Don't be surprised of GOM disappears completely. I didn't reference any historical events here, it is more about the general idea.
Yeah, and your general idea isn't backed up with any evidence, historical or otherwise, as far as esports is concerned while my 'general idea' is. You seem to have a sever lack of understanding about how the economy of esports works. Getting a couple thousand subscriptions for a premium pass is nothing in terms of revenue compared to getting good corporate sponsorship and a large viewer base that you can then turn around and sell to advertisers. Look at how many people are making a living off of their youtube channels these days yet they aren't 'selling' their content to the viewers, they are selling the viewers to their sponsors. I was a gom subscriber back in the entire year of 2012 when there was LOADS of games both code S and A and an excellent vod system. It was cheaper then, and better. See, the problem is that gom isn't even offering anything good for the subscription, they are just taking away from people what should be free. Its a bogus tactic and they deserve all the criticism they receive. I and others will refuse to watch gsl this year.
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On January 13 2015 02:31 johnbongham wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 02:04 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 13 2015 01:28 johnbongham wrote:On January 13 2015 01:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 13 2015 01:03 Noocta wrote:On January 13 2015 00:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I actually never understood the believe that quality content (maybe gsl doesn't have enough quality for some?) has to be free.
Sure, it might be better for the numbers, but if the price is rather low i don't see why you can't just pay for it if you enjoy the content... Because we have years and years of esport experiences to prove otherwise mostly... If people don't wanna pay for watching esports i doubt it will get anywhere, simple as that tbh. TBH you don't know what you are talking about. The last time a popular esport went behind a giant paywall that I can remember because it was a 'quality' production was when the Championship Gaming Series consolidated all the best CS players/teams into a single televised tournament that you could only watch if your parents subscribed to Direct TV. This was nearly a decade ago. Suffice to say, that was when I and many others stopped following cs completely, and when that league folded, pretty much the entire North American pro playerbase folded with it. Look it up, do some research, this is NOT how you grow your viewer base or grow the game. Don't be surprised if tastosis get canned or the free stream disappears completely. Don't be surprised of GOM disappears completely. I didn't reference any historical events here, it is more about the general idea. Yeah, and your general idea isn't backed up with any evidence, historical or otherwise, as far as esports is concerned while my 'general idea' is. You seem to have a sever lack of understanding about how the economy of esports works. Getting a couple thousand subscriptions for a premium pass is nothing in terms of revenue compared to getting good corporate sponsorship and a large viewer base that you can then turn around and sell to advertisers. Look at how many people are making a living off of their youtube channels these days yet they aren't 'selling' their content to the viewers, they are selling the viewers to their sponsors. I was a gom subscriber back in the entire year of 2012 when there was LOADS of games both code S and A and an excellent vod system. It was cheaper then, and better. See, the problem is that gom isn't even offering anything good for the subscription, they are just taking away from people what should be free. Its a bogus tactic and they deserve all the criticism they receive. I and others will refuse to watch gsl this year.
While I'm on your side regarding the stream quality of GSL, he has a valid point, but you just don't seem to get it. He refers to the 'old-school' trading model, where people exchange money in order to receive some kind of product/service.
Like going into a store and telling the owner you want that game over there and he charges you amount X for it, I know, it's kinda dated nowadays, but please don't be so condescending when trying to back up your point of view in the future.
We are just people from the past not used to digital marketing, yet.
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So they even lock-out the VODs, they only upload game 1 to their youtube channel. Fuck that :/
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EPT
