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On November 11 2014 04:08 Tanzklaue wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 04:05 Zealously wrote:On November 11 2014 03:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. MMA crushed bomber and classic (also stardust who is no slouch) to reach the finals. classic and bomber were 2 of the favourites to win the whole thing. I'll admit Bomber, but Classic a favorite? Not sure. Given that Bomber, herO, soO, Innovation, Zest and Taeja were already considered legitimate threats for the championship, throwing in Classic means we might as well throw in most of the attending players. classic is a bit of a stretch, but by the semifinals it was clear that he definitely was no joke, beating polt and hero.
In Hero vs Classic I felt it was more Hero going on tilt because of the delays than Classic beating Hero. I mean seriously who attacks up a ramp seeing superior numbers and still tries to blink micro... that was just bad.
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On November 11 2014 04:21 Tanzklaue wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 04:17 OtherWorld wrote:On November 11 2014 03:43 Tanzklaue wrote:
life isn't nearly good enough to beat taeja in straight up games.
he knew that.
which is why he countered taeja's play with creativity and brainsmarts. which was the right thing to do honestly. i mean, you can try beating a bear in a fist fight, but nobody will remember you as a hero or smart.
what i want to say with that is, life deserved the win. it wasn't pretty, but taeja failed to paly it safe against life, who literally played cheesy aggression 4 out of 5 games. i mean, you could try to adapt to that. You could also say that TaeJa isn't nearly good enough to beat Life in non-straight up games then. The fact that a player doesn't play accordingly to what your standards of "straight-up" or "macro" are doesn't mean he's bad and saying that he is is total bullshit. Starcraft II is a strategy game, not a button-clicking game. Life won with both his strategic mind and his mechanics. Implying he's not on the level of the best players of this game in one of those dimensions is what I'd call... controversial did you even read the rest of my post where i said that life deserved to win because he was the smarter man and taeja refused to adapt, thus making life superior to taeja?
I did, but your first sentence make it sound like TaeJa is a better player than Life overall. Which I deny, because except in case of obvious racial imbalance, the better player is the one who wins. Sorry if my post sounded harsh or rude though, I'm just a bit angry seeing all the posts saying Life doesn't deserve his victory, so I may have overreacted when responding to yours.
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On November 11 2014 04:20 TsogiMaster wrote:
Life deserved the win, but i have to say, i agree with the point (dont remember who it was), that the final should've been on Sunday. MMA played so terrible and you could see after game 1 on MMA's face how desperate he was. If he had time to prepare his TvZ, I think the final wouldn't have been so one sided as it was, it would've been more closer and greater series like the Taeja vs soO and Taeja vs Life series. Almost in every games MMA tried to do 2 base all ins/pushes instead to play macro games, which he usually does vs Zergs. In game 1 he could've killed many drones with the 4-5 marines+1 hellbat, instead he went to the second hatch and killed only 2 queens. In game 2 he tried to do a tank, marine push with the lack of information about Life's strategy/ even Life's playstyle. In game 3 he won it only because Life didn't scout and knew what MMA was up to. If he knew it, he would've won it easily. But it was strong timing. In game 4 MMA should've pushed earlier, if he wants to do 2 base timing. He pushed so late, Life's 4th was even up. Usually MMA won't make such mistakes. In game 5 he saw the baneling nest, and if he knew how aggressive Life plays, he would've done more bunkers and earlier. Well we could all see the lack of preparation of TvZ on MMA. Well like someone said, Life played vs Taeja, and he had 1 day to prepare his ZvT. Well so it was deserved win for Life, but only because MMA wasn't prepared.
You could argue that he should have already has his TvZ prepared in the couple weeks timespan he had before Blizzcon to practice all 3 matchups (especially considering there was a 50% chance he'd see Jaedong if MMA won his first match). I agree that momentum was more in Life's favor because they didn't have a day break but that's what all players need to acknowledge when they agree to enter a tournament. Especially since I consider Life one of those players who are unphased when conditions ingame or outside the game are not ideal.
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I never once felt that Life was caught off-guard by anything his opponents were doing the entire tournament. His scouting and game-sense is what got him his money.
MMA seemed outclassed in the finals. Tired maybe? Still very impressive by MMA to become the only two-time Blizzcon finalist, so props to him.
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On November 11 2014 04:28 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 04:21 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 04:17 OtherWorld wrote:On November 11 2014 03:43 Tanzklaue wrote:
life isn't nearly good enough to beat taeja in straight up games.
he knew that.
which is why he countered taeja's play with creativity and brainsmarts. which was the right thing to do honestly. i mean, you can try beating a bear in a fist fight, but nobody will remember you as a hero or smart.
what i want to say with that is, life deserved the win. it wasn't pretty, but taeja failed to paly it safe against life, who literally played cheesy aggression 4 out of 5 games. i mean, you could try to adapt to that. You could also say that TaeJa isn't nearly good enough to beat Life in non-straight up games then. The fact that a player doesn't play accordingly to what your standards of "straight-up" or "macro" are doesn't mean he's bad and saying that he is is total bullshit. Starcraft II is a strategy game, not a button-clicking game. Life won with both his strategic mind and his mechanics. Implying he's not on the level of the best players of this game in one of those dimensions is what I'd call... controversial did you even read the rest of my post where i said that life deserved to win because he was the smarter man and taeja refused to adapt, thus making life superior to taeja? I did, but your first sentence make it sound like TaeJa is a better player than Life overall. Which I deny, because except in case of obvious racial imbalance, the better player is the one who wins. Sorry if my post sounded harsh or rude though, I'm just a bit angry seeing all the posts saying Life doesn't deserve his victory, so I may have overreacted when responding to yours.
If the better player always won, cheese wouldn't exist
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On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you.
I love you. You're pretty harsh but I agree.
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On November 11 2014 03:57 Tanzklaue wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. MMA crushed bomber and classic (also stardust who is no slouch) to reach the finals. classic and bomber were 2 of the favourites to win the whole thing.
So MMA has better mechanics than Life?? Does anyone agree with this? Life only beat MMA through trickery and non-standard play? Everything looked standard to me.
MMA beat Bomber using 3-Viking build that Bomber couldn't adjust for.
Following Proleague and GSL, the only legitimate contenders at the beginning of the tournament were Zest, Taeja, Innovation and soO - no one from the top bracket.
Maybe herO...but that's a big maybe for anyone following the Korean scene.
Bomber is in the category of "could beat any of the KR region pros...but would be an underdog"
MMA is in the "if he wins against any KR code S player I'll be shocked"
- I was shocked he beat Classic. But after rewatching R32 season 3 GSL...classic is serious code A material at this point.
Top bracket was pretty trash - Polt is a heart favorite but he's not top tier.
Stardust!? MC?! Jaedong?! Classic?! MMA?! None of these players had any sort of shot. herO and Bomber were LONG odds.
Basically what I'm saying is San > Stardust, Zest >>>>>> Classic, Taeja > Bomber during Blizzcon...Life came through the hard way, and it showed in the finals - 4-1 and wasn't close.
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On November 11 2014 05:45 Keeemy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. I love you. You're pretty harsh but to an extent I agree.
Whaaaat? San was undefeated against Zerg in offline tournaments until he met the wonderkid...
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On November 11 2014 05:49 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 05:45 Keeemy wrote:On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. I love you. You're pretty harsh but to an extent I agree. Whaaaat? San was undefeated against Zerg in offline tournaments until he met the wonderkid...
Didn't really mean that part, mostly everything he said about MMA. San is the zerg killer, very true.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 11 2014 05:40 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 04:28 OtherWorld wrote:On November 11 2014 04:21 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 04:17 OtherWorld wrote:On November 11 2014 03:43 Tanzklaue wrote:
life isn't nearly good enough to beat taeja in straight up games.
he knew that.
which is why he countered taeja's play with creativity and brainsmarts. which was the right thing to do honestly. i mean, you can try beating a bear in a fist fight, but nobody will remember you as a hero or smart.
what i want to say with that is, life deserved the win. it wasn't pretty, but taeja failed to paly it safe against life, who literally played cheesy aggression 4 out of 5 games. i mean, you could try to adapt to that. You could also say that TaeJa isn't nearly good enough to beat Life in non-straight up games then. The fact that a player doesn't play accordingly to what your standards of "straight-up" or "macro" are doesn't mean he's bad and saying that he is is total bullshit. Starcraft II is a strategy game, not a button-clicking game. Life won with both his strategic mind and his mechanics. Implying he's not on the level of the best players of this game in one of those dimensions is what I'd call... controversial did you even read the rest of my post where i said that life deserved to win because he was the smarter man and taeja refused to adapt, thus making life superior to taeja? I did, but your first sentence make it sound like TaeJa is a better player than Life overall. Which I deny, because except in case of obvious racial imbalance, the better player is the one who wins. Sorry if my post sounded harsh or rude though, I'm just a bit angry seeing all the posts saying Life doesn't deserve his victory, so I may have overreacted when responding to yours. If the better player always won, cheese wouldn't exist
The better player is the one that knows when to cheese, not the one that never does
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On November 11 2014 05:40 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 04:28 OtherWorld wrote:On November 11 2014 04:21 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 04:17 OtherWorld wrote:On November 11 2014 03:43 Tanzklaue wrote:
life isn't nearly good enough to beat taeja in straight up games.
he knew that.
which is why he countered taeja's play with creativity and brainsmarts. which was the right thing to do honestly. i mean, you can try beating a bear in a fist fight, but nobody will remember you as a hero or smart.
what i want to say with that is, life deserved the win. it wasn't pretty, but taeja failed to paly it safe against life, who literally played cheesy aggression 4 out of 5 games. i mean, you could try to adapt to that. You could also say that TaeJa isn't nearly good enough to beat Life in non-straight up games then. The fact that a player doesn't play accordingly to what your standards of "straight-up" or "macro" are doesn't mean he's bad and saying that he is is total bullshit. Starcraft II is a strategy game, not a button-clicking game. Life won with both his strategic mind and his mechanics. Implying he's not on the level of the best players of this game in one of those dimensions is what I'd call... controversial did you even read the rest of my post where i said that life deserved to win because he was the smarter man and taeja refused to adapt, thus making life superior to taeja? I did, but your first sentence make it sound like TaeJa is a better player than Life overall. Which I deny, because except in case of obvious racial imbalance, the better player is the one who wins. Sorry if my post sounded harsh or rude though, I'm just a bit angry seeing all the posts saying Life doesn't deserve his victory, so I may have overreacted when responding to yours. If the better player always won, cheese wouldn't exist
LOL, cheese is a part of the game man. It is as legit as a straight macro game, both are preferences of strategy...
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On November 11 2014 05:49 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 05:45 Keeemy wrote:On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. I love you. You're pretty harsh but to an extent I agree. Whaaaat? San was undefeated against Zerg in offline tournaments until he met the wonderkid...
Looking at his record is incredible, but looking at his games...he's not the strongest player mechanically or decision making-wise.
I think any top-tier KR Code S zerg could beat San given time to prepare.
No explanation for Life's dismal record before Blizzcon vs San - haven't seen the games either.
But watching Life vs San was like watching Ali beat up a highschool kid.
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On November 11 2014 05:48 jayy5 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 03:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. MMA crushed bomber and classic (also stardust who is no slouch) to reach the finals. classic and bomber were 2 of the favourites to win the whole thing. So MMA has better mechanics than Life?? Does anyone agree with this? Life only beat MMA through trickery and non-standard play? Everything looked standard to me. MMA beat Bomber using 3-Viking build that Bomber couldn't adjust for. Following Proleague and GSL, the only legitimate contenders at the beginning of the tournament were Zest, Taeja, Innovation and soO - no one from the top bracket. Maybe herO...but that's a big maybe for anyone following the Korean scene. Bomber is in the category of "could beat any of the KR region pros...but would be an underdog" MMA is in the "if he wins against any KR code S player I'll be shocked" - I was shocked he beat Classic. But after rewatching R32 season 3 GSL...classic is serious code A material at this point. Top bracket was pretty trash - Polt is a heart favorite but he's not top tier. Stardust!? MC?! Jaedong?! Classic?! MMA?! None of these players had any sort of shot. herO and Bomber were LONG odds. Basically what I'm saying is San > Stardust, Zest >>>>>> Classic, Taeja > Bomber during Blizzcon...Life came through the hard way, and it showed in the finals - 4-1 and wasn't close.
LoL, Bomber is same level as Taeja or even better.(in TvT definitely), and I cant believe how many people seeing MMA as so bad player. MMA is capable to beat any code S player. Like I said before he had surely no practice on his TvZ matchup, otherwise he would've won vs Life.
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Life has been winning tournaments left and right since 2012, how can people underrate him so much?
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On November 11 2014 05:45 Keeemy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. I love you. You're pretty harsh but I agree.
You are out of your mind - you don't make the finals of 4 premier tournaments in 2014 without top tier mechanics. MMA and Taeja are top tier players: don't be ridiculous
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On November 11 2014 04:05 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 03:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. MMA crushed bomber and classic (also stardust who is no slouch) to reach the finals. classic and bomber were 2 of the favourites to win the whole thing. I'll admit Bomber, but Classic a favorite? Not sure. Given that Bomber, herO, soO, Innovation, Zest and Taeja were already considered legitimate threats for the championship, throwing in Classic means we might as well throw in most of the attending players.
Well, it is Blizzcon. I thought everyone except Jaedong, Jjakji, Stardust and San had a decent chance of taking it.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 11 2014 06:44 TsogiMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 05:48 jayy5 wrote:On November 11 2014 03:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. MMA crushed bomber and classic (also stardust who is no slouch) to reach the finals. classic and bomber were 2 of the favourites to win the whole thing. So MMA has better mechanics than Life?? Does anyone agree with this? Life only beat MMA through trickery and non-standard play? Everything looked standard to me. MMA beat Bomber using 3-Viking build that Bomber couldn't adjust for. Following Proleague and GSL, the only legitimate contenders at the beginning of the tournament were Zest, Taeja, Innovation and soO - no one from the top bracket. Maybe herO...but that's a big maybe for anyone following the Korean scene. Bomber is in the category of "could beat any of the KR region pros...but would be an underdog" MMA is in the "if he wins against any KR code S player I'll be shocked" - I was shocked he beat Classic. But after rewatching R32 season 3 GSL...classic is serious code A material at this point. Top bracket was pretty trash - Polt is a heart favorite but he's not top tier. Stardust!? MC?! Jaedong?! Classic?! MMA?! None of these players had any sort of shot. herO and Bomber were LONG odds. Basically what I'm saying is San > Stardust, Zest >>>>>> Classic, Taeja > Bomber during Blizzcon...Life came through the hard way, and it showed in the finals - 4-1 and wasn't close. LoL, Bomber is same level as Taeja or even better.(in TvT definitely), and I cant believe how many people seeing MMA as so bad player. MMA is capable to beat any code S player. Like I said before he had surely no practice on his TvZ matchup, otherwise he would've won vs Life.
Why do you think a player who proved himself off in his knowledge of TvZ timings and so inept at defending the most rudimentary of aggression would be able to beat a player that just took out Taeja (whose kill list includes soO, Solar, Life, and every other Zerg in the universe) with an additional day of practice?
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On November 11 2014 07:02 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 06:44 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 11 2014 05:48 jayy5 wrote:On November 11 2014 03:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. MMA crushed bomber and classic (also stardust who is no slouch) to reach the finals. classic and bomber were 2 of the favourites to win the whole thing. So MMA has better mechanics than Life?? Does anyone agree with this? Life only beat MMA through trickery and non-standard play? Everything looked standard to me. MMA beat Bomber using 3-Viking build that Bomber couldn't adjust for. Following Proleague and GSL, the only legitimate contenders at the beginning of the tournament were Zest, Taeja, Innovation and soO - no one from the top bracket. Maybe herO...but that's a big maybe for anyone following the Korean scene. Bomber is in the category of "could beat any of the KR region pros...but would be an underdog" MMA is in the "if he wins against any KR code S player I'll be shocked" - I was shocked he beat Classic. But after rewatching R32 season 3 GSL...classic is serious code A material at this point. Top bracket was pretty trash - Polt is a heart favorite but he's not top tier. Stardust!? MC?! Jaedong?! Classic?! MMA?! None of these players had any sort of shot. herO and Bomber were LONG odds. Basically what I'm saying is San > Stardust, Zest >>>>>> Classic, Taeja > Bomber during Blizzcon...Life came through the hard way, and it showed in the finals - 4-1 and wasn't close. LoL, Bomber is same level as Taeja or even better.(in TvT definitely), and I cant believe how many people seeing MMA as so bad player. MMA is capable to beat any code S player. Like I said before he had surely no practice on his TvZ matchup, otherwise he would've won vs Life. Why do you think a player who proved himself off in his knowledge of TvZ timings and so inept at defending the most rudimentary of aggression would be able to beat a player that just took out Taeja (whose kill list includes soO, Solar, Life, and every other Zerg in the universe) with an additional day of practice?
LoL? MMA's best matchup was TvZ, but recently almost in every tournaments he hadn't to play any Zergs, almost only vs P or T. With that 1 day, he beated Classic easily, and MMA is well know for his good preparations vs his current opponnents. If he knew, he was playing vs Life, i am 100% sure, the finals were 4-3 to either side, not so one sided as it was. Seems people who only follow Koreans scene and think Code S players are much better than the NA or EU koreans, have no idea how good MMA, Bomber are. I think only Taeja is accepted as good player, if i read the comments. Sadly MMA is so underrated, I am pretty sure, if he had harder bracket and lost in the final, he would still be for most people a bad player who has no chance vs Code S player.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 11 2014 07:11 TsogiMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 07:02 Zealously wrote:On November 11 2014 06:44 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 11 2014 05:48 jayy5 wrote:On November 11 2014 03:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. MMA crushed bomber and classic (also stardust who is no slouch) to reach the finals. classic and bomber were 2 of the favourites to win the whole thing. So MMA has better mechanics than Life?? Does anyone agree with this? Life only beat MMA through trickery and non-standard play? Everything looked standard to me. MMA beat Bomber using 3-Viking build that Bomber couldn't adjust for. Following Proleague and GSL, the only legitimate contenders at the beginning of the tournament were Zest, Taeja, Innovation and soO - no one from the top bracket. Maybe herO...but that's a big maybe for anyone following the Korean scene. Bomber is in the category of "could beat any of the KR region pros...but would be an underdog" MMA is in the "if he wins against any KR code S player I'll be shocked" - I was shocked he beat Classic. But after rewatching R32 season 3 GSL...classic is serious code A material at this point. Top bracket was pretty trash - Polt is a heart favorite but he's not top tier. Stardust!? MC?! Jaedong?! Classic?! MMA?! None of these players had any sort of shot. herO and Bomber were LONG odds. Basically what I'm saying is San > Stardust, Zest >>>>>> Classic, Taeja > Bomber during Blizzcon...Life came through the hard way, and it showed in the finals - 4-1 and wasn't close. LoL, Bomber is same level as Taeja or even better.(in TvT definitely), and I cant believe how many people seeing MMA as so bad player. MMA is capable to beat any code S player. Like I said before he had surely no practice on his TvZ matchup, otherwise he would've won vs Life. Why do you think a player who proved himself off in his knowledge of TvZ timings and so inept at defending the most rudimentary of aggression would be able to beat a player that just took out Taeja (whose kill list includes soO, Solar, Life, and every other Zerg in the universe) with an additional day of practice? LoL? MMA's best matchup was TvZ, but recently almost in every tournaments he hadn't to play any Zergs, almost only vs P or T. With that 1 day, he beated Classic easily, and MMA is well know for his good preparations vs his current opponnents. If he knew, he was playing vs Life, i am 100% sure, the finals were 4-3 to either side, not so one sided as it was. Seems people who only follow Koreans scene and think Code S players are much better than the NA or EU koreans, have no idea how good MMA, Bomber are. I think only Taeja is accepted as good player, if i read the comments. Sadly MMA is so underrated, I am pretty sure, if he had harder bracket and lost in the final, he would still be for most people a bad player who has no chance vs Code S player.
If you watched Life's games against Zest and San (and even to some extent Taeja), you would find that the same kind of preparation you think MMA is so impressive in is something Life also masters. I get that you think we're criminally underrating MMA, but he really showed nothing in the finals to imply that he was (is) anywhere near Taeja's level in the matchup.
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On November 11 2014 07:11 TsogiMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 07:02 Zealously wrote:On November 11 2014 06:44 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 11 2014 05:48 jayy5 wrote:On November 11 2014 03:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On November 11 2014 03:51 jayy5 wrote:On November 10 2014 23:58 Pegas wrote:
Props to Life for not Swarmhosting the finals.
That being said yes I think MMA and Taeja had the superior mechanics but Life had the best response and fastest decision making. MMA's superior mechanics???? WHAT THE HELL? Stupidest thing I've read on this thread. Life vs MMA is proof that the top bracket of the tournament was the weakest shit known to man. Life beat Zest, San (who cares) and Taeja, before completely wiping the floor with MMA. The guy had no chance at all whatsoever in the least. It was watching 2 different caliber of players. I can't believe 3 of the 5 announcers picked MMA to win. It's clear if you watched any of the games in the finals that the only reason he's in Blizzcon is because he's not playing in Korea. Don't put Taeja and MMA in the same level ever please and thank you. MMA crushed bomber and classic (also stardust who is no slouch) to reach the finals. classic and bomber were 2 of the favourites to win the whole thing. So MMA has better mechanics than Life?? Does anyone agree with this? Life only beat MMA through trickery and non-standard play? Everything looked standard to me. MMA beat Bomber using 3-Viking build that Bomber couldn't adjust for. Following Proleague and GSL, the only legitimate contenders at the beginning of the tournament were Zest, Taeja, Innovation and soO - no one from the top bracket. Maybe herO...but that's a big maybe for anyone following the Korean scene. Bomber is in the category of "could beat any of the KR region pros...but would be an underdog" MMA is in the "if he wins against any KR code S player I'll be shocked" - I was shocked he beat Classic. But after rewatching R32 season 3 GSL...classic is serious code A material at this point. Top bracket was pretty trash - Polt is a heart favorite but he's not top tier. Stardust!? MC?! Jaedong?! Classic?! MMA?! None of these players had any sort of shot. herO and Bomber were LONG odds. Basically what I'm saying is San > Stardust, Zest >>>>>> Classic, Taeja > Bomber during Blizzcon...Life came through the hard way, and it showed in the finals - 4-1 and wasn't close. LoL, Bomber is same level as Taeja or even better.(in TvT definitely), and I cant believe how many people seeing MMA as so bad player. MMA is capable to beat any code S player. Like I said before he had surely no practice on his TvZ matchup, otherwise he would've won vs Life. Why do you think a player who proved himself off in his knowledge of TvZ timings and so inept at defending the most rudimentary of aggression would be able to beat a player that just took out Taeja (whose kill list includes soO, Solar, Life, and every other Zerg in the universe) with an additional day of practice? LoL? MMA's best matchup was TvZ, but recently almost in every tournaments he hadn't to play any Zergs, almost only vs P or T. With that 1 day, he beated Classic easily, and MMA is well know for his good preparations vs his current opponnents. If he knew, he was playing vs Life, i am 100% sure, the finals were 4-3 to either side, not so one sided as it was. Seems people who only follow Koreans scene and think Code S players are much better than the NA or EU koreans, have no idea how good MMA, Bomber are. I think only Taeja is accepted as good player, if i read the comments. Sadly MMA is so underrated, I am pretty sure, if he had harder bracket and lost in the final, he would still be for most people a bad player who has no chance vs Code S player.
You only seem to think MMA benefits from an extra day of practice, yet Life would have played better TvZ in that case as well. I feel his win against Zest and how he beat San proves this. Zest was preparing in general, while Life was preparing for Zest, and you could just tell that Life was countering what Zest was doing while Zest just tried to play standard. The fact it even got to game 5 was, to me, proof of how dominating Zest's PvZ is in general, that he can win 2 out of 5 games against a Zerg like Life, even when being countered. MMA played great, but he beat Stardust (also EU), then beat Bomber who apparently told people he had a bad day beforehand (this is not me trying to take away credit from MMA who played great that match, but on the highest level this does make a difference), then Classic who is definitely no slouch, but it doesn't compare to beating Zest/San in ZvP followed by Taeja in ZvT, which are 3 of the players with the best vZ on the planet.
But even beforehand, people were saying that the lower bracket was tougher, and the games proved it. The key difference is not in the numbers of how many maps they won/lost, but how amazing the games in the lower bracket were. Zest vs. Life, Taeja vs. soO, Taeja vs. Innovation, Taeja vs. Life, were, in some order, the top 4 series of Blizzcon to me. The way Innovation/Life straight up killed Hyun/San while the latter just killed jjakji showed the difference in class pretty well. To me Taeja & Life were the two best players at this tournament. The way they beat their opponents to the semi-finals, showed how incredible these guys are when they have the right motivation. I feel this all culminated into game 2 of their series, where they both showed amazing class, but in the end Life won that. I have no doubt in my mind that if Taeja won that series, he would go on to beat MMA too. It might have been closer, but Taeja has been proving since 2012 he can beat (almost) anyone when he's on point, and he was in this tournament.
I don't even know why you think it's so controversial how amazing Life played in this tournament. We know the guy had probably the most dominating run ever at the end of WoL. Not even MMA at the end of 2011 seemed as dominating, though he was close. I also don't believe MMA would get crushed in GSL, as he's playing really well in general, but that doesn't mean he would just beat anyone with more preparation time. You could even argue he benefited from this lack of preparation time against Classic, who he countered pretty hard with his mine-play, to which Classic had no answer. At Blizzcon, Life showed how he went on that insane 19-0 offline bo5+ streak. You don't just get there with superior mechanics, as Innovation's 0-4 to Maru & 3-4 to Soulkey showed when he was "the best player in the world". I don't get the sense any of Life's map wins were flukes, and with how close the games were, I'm pretty sure that if we repeat the entire tournament we'd end up with two different finalists. But we may never know. What we do know is that Life, like sOs last year, played a series of amazing games over the course of last week and to me it felt like he was playing like a "best player in the world" should.
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EPT
