EPTAs for the units...honestly, I like some of the ideas, but in general this really seems to be just inching closer and closer to Warcraft 3, where "micro" was shoehorned in via targetable abilities and cooldowns.
Legacy of the Void Announced - Page 51
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Ksi
357 Posts
As for the units...honestly, I like some of the ideas, but in general this really seems to be just inching closer and closer to Warcraft 3, where "micro" was shoehorned in via targetable abilities and cooldowns. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Being able to shoot while moving without requiring any player input, is the opposite of micro. So this was what players initially said when the Phoenix was added. Everyone laughed at it and thought it was easiest unit ever as you just had to right click back. It turned out, however, that the right-click was still extremely microintensive as you constantly had to react to what the enemy was doing. I don't believe that micro is about spamming as many buttons. Rather, I believe that you create fun and skillfun interactions by rewarding players for reacting to what the enemy is doing. Those who can do this as fast as possible can make plays that are really fun to watch. Going back to the Cyclone, I don't believe that this is the case for this unit. If blizzard really had a specific skillful interaction in mind, I am sure they would have showed it to us during the video. Tbh, it looked like they had no idea what second unit to give to terran. But I think this unit would suck regardless of whether it attacked while moving or not. | ||
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WetSocks
United States953 Posts
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:31 NexT_SC2 wrote: I think Blizzard was trying to make the game easier to watch for newer players by making units with more micro potential, eg; Herc, dissruptor, siege tanks, ravenger, etc. Not just that - but the economy changes as well I actually hope we get a change where no longer 24 workers per base will be required, but say 16 or 18 instead.. You even START with 12 workers - though not confirmed this yet Regardless - I'm pretty sure that the economy management will be easier in favor of having more Army management, and the mere fact that it seems that ALL the races have anti-deathball mechanics (or means to punish those kinds of play at least) is just AWESOME and it forces some type of - WC3-ish type of play with tripple (or even quadruple) amount of units, but no hero in the games I think I really like where this seems to be going TBH | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13410 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:35 LaLuSh wrote: In agreement with Jinro. It's not really moving shot if the unit has to stop and "lock on" to a target every single time before it can move-shoot. My bets is the cyclone's attack is an ability or a weapon that shoots automatically once it is "locked on" -- without requiring further player input. The Cyclone will continue shooting either until the target is dead or is out of range. Once that happens, the cyclone has to stop, lock on to a new target, and can then start "move-shooting" again once it is locked on to a new target. It's a cheap Blizzard™ way of doing moving shot. They've been listening a lot, I think a tweak could happen. But phoenixes do it sooooo :/ The Herc looks cool. | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
Baneling + Ling is already there to fight against Bio army, and Roach + Ling / Baneling ling for the Zealot + Stalker army. All it does is make the Zerg army less mobile | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13410 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:39 parkufarku wrote: I honestly don't see the point of Lurkers in this game. Lurker is a mid-game ground fighting unit which complements zerglings, which is the baneling's role. Baneling + Ling is already there to fight against Bio army, and Roach + Ling / Baneling ling for the Zealot + Stalker army. All it does is make the Zerg army less mobile I think we all wanted it, now we see if it was worth having or not  | ||
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Existential
Australia2107 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:39 parkufarku wrote: I honestly don't see the point of Lurkers in this game. Lurker is a mid-game ground fighting unit which complements zerglings, which is the baneling's role. Baneling + Ling is already there to fight against Bio army, and Roach + Ling / Baneling ling for the Zealot + Stalker army. All it does is make the Zerg army less mobile Yeah I feel as if they're just adding lurkers because people were upset they weren't in the game in the first place. There really is no point of adding a unit that does the same role as the baneling. Might as well get rid of banelings in that case. Which I am not opposed to. | ||
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Kitaen
Austria466 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Being able to shoot while moving without requiring any player input, is the opposite of micro. moving while shooting still means you have to control the movement, see phoenix vs mutas e.g. - pretty fun and definitely not the opposite of micro the way they implement this unit will be the deciding factor | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:39 parkufarku wrote: I honestly don't see the point of Lurkers in this game. Lurker is a mid-game ground fighting unit which complements zerglings, which is the baneling's role. Baneling + Ling is already there to fight against Bio army, and Roach + Ling / Baneling ling for the Zealot + Stalker army. All it does is make the Zerg army less mobile It outranges base defenses this time around, so its siege role has been buffed, which will be nice now that Swarm Hosts have been redesigned. Btw, I hope someone has a summary of the campaign panel since it would be a shame if that went by unnoticed. | ||
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Urth
United States1256 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:32 ZeromuS wrote: The immortal is seeing major changes. The photon overcharge hits ground only the warp in changes, protoss has seen a huge change. HUGE. I wouldn't be surprised to see even more in the coming months. Those are nerfs (ok maybe the immortal one makes it more general purpose and could be argued not to be a nerf), and I don't see any good stuff P gets to compensate it. I guess with the warp in changes they can try to buff gateway units in a way, but that'd open a huge Pandora's box. | ||
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Weavel
Finland9223 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:35 Ksi wrote: You know nothing about wc3 micro...Thank the God Emperor (Boxer) that Blizzard actually decided to revamp the harvesting and economy mechanics. I'm more excited about that than any of these units. As for the units...honestly, I like some of the ideas, but in general this really seems to be just inching closer and closer to Warcraft 3, where "micro" is just about targetable abilities and cooldowns. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:42 Existential wrote: Yeah I feel as if they're just adding lurkers because people were upset they weren't in the game in the first place. There really is no point of adding a unit that does the same role as the baneling. Might as well get rid of banelings in that case. Which I am not opposed to. I don't think thats true though. You could say that muta/bling fares better vs marine/tank than vs 4M, and then Lurkers fare a bit better vs 4M than Marine/Tank. As long as this isn't a hardcounter-interaction, you will actually have different compositions with different advantages here. | ||
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Ksi
357 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:42 Existential wrote: Yeah I feel as if they're just adding lurkers because people were upset they weren't in the game in the first place. There really is no point of adding a unit that does the same role as the baneling. Might as well get rid of banelings in that case. Which I am not opposed to. Agreed on the banelings. I never liked them because they seemed like they are just an outgrowth of WoL's "terrible terrible damage" philosophy. I much prefered the slower, more positional aspect of using lurkers as splash. It's much more interesting to watch, is slightly less map dependent than getting good angles of engagement with banelings (since you can at least pre-position lurkers), and it gives Zerg a stronger aspect of positional, combined arms play, rather than throwing one giant blob at another. | ||
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
Personal favourite is the tempest change. The part where I'm a bit sceptical is that I think that BL's are still gonna be useless since they do so little on their own due to their slow dps. But whatevs, let's wait until the beta starts to judge that. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 08 2014 11:39 ZeromuS wrote: They've been listening a lot, I think a tweak could happen. But phoenixes do it sooooo :/ The Herc looks cool. I think it too soon to say with actually using the unit. | ||
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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Ksi
357 Posts
I know there was a lot more to WC3's micro than that, but what I meant is that in WC3, there was almost a gluttony of castable abilities and cooldowns. While it was interesting for WC3, I don't think it quite fits with the philosophy of Starcraft. | ||
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
there's so many changes to how the game works that i wouldn't know where to begin critiquing them. also haven't watched much starcraft 2 the last year or so, so i have no clue what the meta is like these days. it mostly looks good, i think? it's undoubtedly going to change significantly during beta. some things have got to be broken. i'm not crazy about the corruptor basically becoming a void ray, or giving the terrans a stalker, just because i don't like the races becoming more similar, but i guess we'll see how they function when we get the beta. if they increase micro and spawn a whole bunch of new unit compositions then it's probably worth it. they better give the ravager a more interesting model than that, though. without commenting on the mechanics of the unit at all, it's just a roach with a popped zit on its back basically. very lazy. i have to assume it's a stand-in until the artists come up with something better. i wonder how influenced some of these changes were by custom maps like One Goal? the stasis mine the oracle is getting really reminds me of a unit from that version of the game, i think the void ray or possibly the oracle itself. oh btw, thank fucking god they're giving the oracle a greater diversity of spells. that unit was always disappointingly one dimensional. it seems they're really trying to push SC2 to the next level, instead of just bandaging problems like with HotS. they know it's their last chance to make SC2 a long-lived phenomenon. if this changes the game as much as it looks like it's going to, it makes HotS look like a minor content patch by comparison. i think they're also acknowledging with this that SC3 is a long, long way away. They were smart to split this game into a trilogy - it gave them a lot of time to learn from mistakes and monitor multiplayer calmly and systematically. i'm so glad they're taking this chance to really pump more life into the game. but the lurker better morph from the hydralisk. i'll be so pissed if it doesn't. | ||
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