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On November 08 2014 06:01 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 06:00 ref4 wrote:On November 08 2014 05:58 andrewlt wrote:On November 08 2014 05:50 Plansix wrote:On November 08 2014 05:49 claybones wrote:
Everything sounds overpowered as fuck. I guess that's alright if everyone is overpowered. Works for dota. When everything is awesome, the game is just fun. That's how BW worked. Though they might have to reduce the cost and build time of cc/hatch/nexus to balance these changes. It worked for BW because there was no infinite units selection and also other game engine-specific limitations Broken shit is fine, as long as you can get out of the way and see it coming. I would rather there be tons of exciting broken shit than everything being super safe and dull.
Broken shit is broken. BW and SC2 are very different due to the interface. They'll have to balance everything that is blatantly broken.
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On November 08 2014 06:02 tar wrote:now taking a closer look at the picture of the disruptor...doesn't this very much look like the shredder for T in Hots alpha? click me
Disruptor = replicant.
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On November 08 2014 06:01 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 05:59 Psychobabas wrote:ESPORTS saved guys Avilo must be ecstatic  major nerf to Immortals is beyond good for mech Well, P will just produce directly produce the proper counter to mech on the spot, namely tempests + carriers.
That is true but Terran now has the option to go for it and attack. You couldnt do that with 6-8 immortals around... It looks like its getting a lot closer to Brood War TvP where terran will be able to launch his huge army before the air transition. As it stands now, you just have to sit there and make raven/viking before you can even dream of attacking.
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I KNEW IT SOUNDED LIKE A GRAPPLING HOOK / ROBOT HAND
Very exciting changes!
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On November 08 2014 06:02 OtherWorld wrote:
I watched the videos again. That sounds like a lot of fun (: only things that are imo more or less bullshit are the Cyclone which looks op as fuck, and the colossus still being there despite the addition of the Disruptor. No need for P to have 2 different robo AoE units. Also it would have been nice to see the Corruptor become an actually microable and fun to play unit instead of a VR on steroids, but well
Stop hating the colossus please  .
Disruptor is too random to fulfill the colossus role which is the only reliable P AOE of the game (storms can be dodged) and actually needs to be microed to be used to its full potential.
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On November 08 2014 06:03 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 06:02 tar wrote:now taking a closer look at the picture of the disruptor...doesn't this very much look like the shredder for T in Hots alpha? click me Disruptor = replicant.
meaning that it will never make it to the final version? 
My wording was a bit off, I did not want to refer to the looks but rather to the concept 
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My biggest hope were skins(aside from balance), and I didn't hear anything about them, kinda sad, but I'm still hoping...
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Still waiting for group splitting hotkey. But probably it's too next gen Kappa
User was warned for this post
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Seriously when can we start pre-ordering this? Does anyone know?r
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On November 08 2014 06:06 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 06:03 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 08 2014 06:02 tar wrote:now taking a closer look at the picture of the disruptor...doesn't this very much look like the shredder for T in Hots alpha? click me Disruptor = replicant. meaning that it will never make it to the final version? My wording was a bit off, I did not want to refer to the looks but rather to the concept
Ah ok, but they're very different. Disruptor bursts massive damage while shredder was good at zoning.
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On November 08 2014 06:00 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 05:58 andrewlt wrote:On November 08 2014 05:50 Plansix wrote:On November 08 2014 05:49 claybones wrote:
Everything sounds overpowered as fuck. I guess that's alright if everyone is overpowered. Works for dota. When everything is awesome, the game is just fun. That's how BW worked. Though they might have to reduce the cost and build time of cc/hatch/nexus to balance these changes. It worked for BW because there was no infinite units selection and also other game engine-specific limitations
Those limitations did not matter when it came to the top level pros with their crazy apm. The game was very balanced at the top level and very fun to watch.
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On November 08 2014 06:06 Liliputin wrote:
My biggest hope were skins(aside from balance), and I didn't hear anything about them, kinda sad, but I'm still hoping...
My biggest hope was the option to not see skins if one does not wish to, and I didn't hear anything about it, kinda sad, but I'm still hoping...
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Is there actual confirmation of the 12 worker start thing or is it just a rumor from those two twitter dudes? They were wrong on other points.
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Hope they change their mind - And will encourage more micro and more fights with zealots/stalkers.
There is like no micro on the gateway except stalker which usually snowballs or dont fight at all.
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Love radical changes, but hope Blizzard doesn't back off on them. They had less changes in HotS beta and backed off of even them.
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On November 08 2014 05:47 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 05:44 Sapphire.lux wrote:On November 08 2014 05:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:On November 08 2014 05:42 Sapphire.lux wrote:
I just realized the Cyclone thing shoot air. I like, i like. Yeah, the more imba, the more chances this unit never sees the light of day. I mean come on, how broken do you want mech to be in LotV ? Mech needed a decent anti air unit from the fact. I don't want it broken, just balanced. They could work on the Thor instead then ? This cyclone thing doesn't inspire me at all.
I disagree. I always hated the Thor. Expensive, clunky, slow to produce, no micro potential...
I hope the Cyclone thing will be lowish dps vs ground so we don't have another Worhound on our hands, but good harass even against static defense with its long range and a decent anti air response from the Factory.
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On November 08 2014 05:02 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 04:51 TheoMikkelsen wrote:
I am extremely positively surprised by the amount of work that has been put in, and I am really happy that the changes both aim to improve micro and mechanical skill caps even more in starcraft than we see today, but I am slightly concerned with the economy changes - though a faster-expanding, faster building and faster resourcing-exhausting game is extremely nice, especially for me personally. However, I am really worried that the amount of time needed to be put into all aspects of the game we know, all units and timings and fundamentally how we play, will change too much. Although what better time than ever to start imroving game fundamentals. I am very curious how maps are going to adjust with the new economical system.
However, as things draw out now, everyone should be positive with the development and any doubts about the gameplay changes should be erased. If any UI/ingame-tournaments and longetivity changes are going to be announced, such as "buyable hats or ingame sounds", I hope this will be included in this thread too. There is almost no way of 12-worker max economy can work. The reason the BW economy worked was that taking extra bases was a reward but not a neccesity as it maxed out at around 28, but each extra worker contributed less. If the defensive player is forced to take bases much faster, then he will have to invest more into defense, which will make it almost impossible for him to invest into harass/offensive options simultaneously. Starbow experimented with a similar economy for a while and gameplay was absolutely terrible (it was Raven vs Swarm host level of turtle every game).
The way I see it, our current definition of "allin, cheese, macro, timing" must be reconsidered. Why is a 6 base attack a macro play, rather than cheese? Most people assosiate allin or cheesy as something "easy to execute" or "the player does not want to learn" - as in a negative way.
Be that as it may, I believe that a 12 worker system can expand map influence why we still can keep allin, cheese and macro at equal levels. So yes, players may have to take bases faster than in hots, but why is that different from making early units?
I mean, if you think about it a bit philosophically here, there is no reason to say that 12 workers will destroy aggressive play etc. In my opinion, the game should strive to become as "beautifully complicated" as possible with the best gameplay, allowing the best players to win. Your points taken from broodwar is obviously worthy, but I still think this deserves a full spin test before further evaluation, even towards release date.
I think the game will become so much more healthy if we can assosiate cheese and allin from 3 bases. Treat nexuses, command centers and hatcheries like normal production facilities or pylons. Make these things more equal is promoting good and fun gameplay. It will be amazing to see that you can have more bases active, usually more than 3, at once, and it will be such a good feeling knowing u can feel "in the game" even if u go a base below your opponent early on. No more polt nexus sniping will likely win you the game.
Of course, overexaggerating these things can have consequences, but I definitely think a 12 worker start can play out much better than 6 worker start, since it allows faster buildup and macro and faster static and active map presence. This is what the pro players, koreans and the viewers indeniably wants.
Now, I think the different between starbow and starcraft 2 here - with some starbow experience - is that starbow did not have a high start-income like sc2 is going to have with 12 workers. Neither do I think it will be the best strategy to avoid going offensive now that the game is going to promote harass-units and harass play even more than passive play.
Starbow is very engagement oriented in terms of improving sc2, and their attempts are great, but I think this can work just as well while keeping the good things from sc2 as well.
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On November 08 2014 06:06 caznitch wrote:
Seriously when can we start pre-ordering this? Does anyone know?r
TotalBiscuit would frown from seeing this post. Why do you feel a need to pre-order a digital game that doesn't have a short supply?
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On November 08 2014 05:03 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 05:02 franky1992 wrote:
It's seems just to me that Protoss has been nerfed? There will be more changes than just these. I read a tweet earlier where someone said that David Kim said Protoss might get a 2nd new unit too.
Source please?
Hoping for a gateway units buff or the WG nerf is going to break the race.
Anyway I'm so exicited about the new protoss unit,carriers and lurkers!
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EPT
