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Active: 3653 users

The effects of worker pairing

Forum Index > SC2 General
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1 2 3 Next All
Sholip
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
Hungary422 Posts
August 07 2014 13:27 GMT
#1
Hi, I'm back with another analysis, now about worker pairing. This time it is a short one.
The question about worker micro is how big an advantage you can get, to ultimately decide if it is worth at all. Here is what I found.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


Also, if you prefer pdf, you can find it here.

TL;DR: Worker pairing, in the best case, can provide an extra 50 minerals early in the game, but it is likely that it will be less. This is a completely free 50 minerals, though, without any drawback. In higher leagues, it may actually matter a little bit, and it should not be a problem managing.

I'm looking forward to your opinions, criticisms, etc.

Previous projects:
+ Show Spoiler +
Perfect micro with Phonixes
Floating to the gold base
"A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is brave five minutes longer. Also, Zest is best." – Ralph Waldo Emerson
loft
Profile Joined July 2009
United States344 Posts
August 07 2014 13:35 GMT
#2
Pretty awesome work Sholip! Answering those questions people never dared to test.

How do you make the workers stay paired?

I will pair them (by spam clicking the mineral till it catches) and then they sometimes break away after 2 runs.
Thyrym
Profile Joined December 2013
89 Posts
August 07 2014 13:37 GMT
#3
These 50 minerals saves a bunch on some cases ^^

Love the analysis!!
Wormi
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany181 Posts
August 07 2014 13:42 GMT
#4
i knew it wasn´t woth it for me (protoss). better chill and get flamed for 60 apm after the game.
I´m a real person. Beep beep.
TokyoGirl
Profile Joined July 2014
Japan116 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-07 14:08:10
August 07 2014 13:52 GMT
#5
Worker pairing is pretty important. The extra 50 minerals allows you to get your first building 6~10 seconds earlier which is huge for holding off early cheese.

When you see pros worker stack, they don't always force workers onto a close mineral patch because like you said there is a downtime. Instead they let the rallied worker mine from a far mineral patch for the first 1 or 2 waves and then force them onto a closer mineral patch for less downtime.

Some basic timings on Overgrowth:

With stacking/Without
9 Pylon: 0:45 / 0:48
13 Gate: 1:35 / 1:40
18 Core: 2:42/ 2:49
21 Nexus: 3:31 / 3:37
15 Nexus first: 2:13 / 2:19

15 Pool 1:57 / 2:05
15 Hatch first: 2:03 / 2:10

10 Depot 0:54 / 0:58
12 Rax 1:33 / 1:37
14 CC first 2:13 / 2:19
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
August 07 2014 13:55 GMT
#6
Nice! It may seem small, but if you pair your workers at the start that's the difference of dropping your barracks at 1:34 instead of 1:40, which results in a faster OC etc etc
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
August 07 2014 14:00 GMT
#7
Except when I try to pair them they fuck off after 2 or so successful trips. Also sometimes I misclick and send all my miners to one patch and ruin all my pairings. Lol.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
August 07 2014 14:01 GMT
#8
Sometimes it's just such a pain to pair them. Even when it seems they are perfectly paired (same interval between gathering minerals from both workers), one will suddenly "catch up" to the other and wander away for no apparent reason...
hundred thousand krouner
UltiBahamut
Profile Joined October 2010
United States102 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-07 14:13:49
August 07 2014 14:01 GMT
#9
On August 07 2014 22:35 loft wrote:
Pretty awesome work Sholip! Answering those questions people never dared to test.

How do you make the workers stay paired?

I will pair them (by spam clicking the mineral till it catches) and then they sometimes break away after 2 runs.


Keeping them paired is one of the hardest parts about it because if you just put the worker from the base onto it and it starts mining asap it will end up leaving in a few runs.

HOWEVER, if you start mining the side of the mineral patch first (Or the corner, i can't remember exactly) then it lines it up perfectly from the quarter second extra it needs to travel back initially for the 2 to stay mining constantly.

EDIT: there are also closer and further mineral patches as in not all close mineral patches are the same distance. This causes some issues as well with the pairing so be on the look out for that :3

EDIT2: Found jakatak's video
:D
"Thats Halo, Dont worry" Huk
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
August 07 2014 14:01 GMT
#10
My stargate build in PvP actually requires it for the timings: with worker pairing I can cut no probes and get my cyber core started exactly on time, without it my cyber core is slightly late and I have to cut a probe for a short while.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Sholip
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
Hungary422 Posts
August 07 2014 14:03 GMT
#11
On August 07 2014 22:35 loft wrote:
How do you make the workers stay paired?
I will pair them (by spam clicking the mineral till it catches) and then they sometimes break away after 2 runs.

Well, I rarely do (gold league ftw ), but when so, I do the same. I think there is some better method, but I can't remember what it is. I, too, noticed that, on particular maps, they sometimes do "break away". I don't know why that is, though.
"A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is brave five minutes longer. Also, Zest is best." – Ralph Waldo Emerson
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
August 07 2014 14:09 GMT
#12
Jakatak did a video on this on how to keep them paired, I'm on mobile so I can't link it but I'm sure if someone searched for 30 seconds they could find it
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
August 07 2014 14:12 GMT
#13
About the last line in the pdf; are there really pros who don't bother to stack workers?
Ovid
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom948 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-07 14:24:41
August 07 2014 14:14 GMT
#14
The video is here:
Worker Pairing

From what I gather it's just because the human clicking speed doesn't get it always within the perfect pairing range so the desync after not many returns.

edit:slow

edit: I enjoy your work OP, I would be interested to know how effective worker mineral harass is (the bit where your opponent click on your mineral patch lots with their worker stopping you from mining and if that's more effective than just sending the worker home asap considering they have to pull a worker or two to deal with it.
My other thing is how many SCV's make effective repairing on buildings when burning and not, because keeping one not mining for ages or lots not mining for one trip could make a difference It must do when burning?
I will make Yogg Saron priest work...
Sholip
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
Hungary422 Posts
August 07 2014 14:16 GMT
#15
On August 07 2014 23:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
About the last line in the pdf; are there really pros who don't bother to stack workers?

A surprising number of them, actually.
"A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is brave five minutes longer. Also, Zest is best." – Ralph Waldo Emerson
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-07 14:55:14
August 07 2014 14:54 GMT
#16
On August 07 2014 23:00 DinoMight wrote:
Except when I try to pair them they fuck off after 2 or so successful trips. Also sometimes I misclick and send all my miners to one patch and ruin all my pairings. Lol.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/449934-rapid-fire-mining

:D

On August 07 2014 23:16 Sholip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2014 23:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
About the last line in the pdf; are there really pros who don't bother to stack workers?

A surprising number of them, actually.

Really? Any names? Other than elfi lol.
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
August 07 2014 15:10 GMT
#17
awesome work indeed. i dont agree with your last sentence though: "why then do they occassionally pick up 5 minerals while scouting, but dont bother to get 50 minerals for free?"

afaik the pickup up minerals of scouting workers have the main purpose of allowing mineral glitching, which might be the difference between losing and saving the scout.

btw is there any KOREAN pro that doesnt stack his workers?
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
August 07 2014 15:26 GMT
#18
On August 08 2014 00:10 Black Gun wrote:
awesome work indeed. i dont agree with your last sentence though: "why then do they occassionally pick up 5 minerals while scouting, but dont bother to get 50 minerals for free?"

afaik the pickup up minerals of scouting workers have the main purpose of allowing mineral glitching, which might be the difference between losing and saving the scout.

btw is there any KOREAN pro that doesnt stack his workers?

You will prob get kicked out of the house for not stacking your workers .
tili
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1332 Posts
August 07 2014 15:36 GMT
#19
50 minerals so early is potentially exponential, no? The extra worker which can be produced allows for another worker to be produced earlier, etc. etc.

dunno, that's how it works in my head
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
August 07 2014 15:38 GMT
#20
Another thing that should be pointed out is that the ai does not distribute the workers evenly. In my games, I frequently see one patch with 3 workers and another patch with only 1. According to the tables, a worker that is send to a patch with two workers already instead of a patch with only one worker generates a loss of 15-33 minerals per minute, which is actually surprising, I thought it would be much more.
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