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GG to Bunny ! I really appreciated this final, and the high quality of the games... It's just a beginning ! This victory will be a big help to shut this nervousness !
I'm a fan now ! ^^
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On August 05 2014 02:08 marconi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners. haters gonna hate. Gj bunny and teamliquid, awesome job u guys are doing
Bunny deserves the plaudits he's received, but sunship's analysis is also accurate (at least in regards to the skill of Koreans attending; unlike him, I don't think there is any kind of pro-foreigner tournament conspiracy).
For example, if Bunny played proleague, and he had a 40% win ratio, I would consider that a much greater accomplishment than him winning this tournament.
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On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners.
Have you been paying any attention to Starcraft 2 lately? Your post is meaningless at the least.
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On August 05 2014 02:01 goody153 wrote:
"foreigner"
"terran"
"win"
wait this doesn't sound right .. those 3 words doesn't usually end well together
omg it's real..
That's what makes it so amazing for me. He basically did the impossible  . The only foreign to win in a finals vs a strong Korean since Thorzain beat Polt.
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On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners.
You're going to get "lambasted" because you're on an alternate account making these claims. I've seen "CODE S" Koreans get destroyed by the players you listed as "beatable" Koreans. So, what does that mean exactly?
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On August 05 2014 09:27 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2014 02:08 marconi wrote:On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners. haters gonna hate. Gj bunny and teamliquid, awesome job u guys are doing Bunny deserves the plaudits he's received, but sunship's analysis is also accurate (at least in regards to the skill of Koreans attending; unlike him, I don't think there is any kind of pro-foreigner tournament conspiracy). For example, if Bunny played proleague, and he had a 40% win ratio, I would consider that a much greater accomplishment than him winning this tournament.
Based on your perception, that means Stephano and Naniwa were the best of all time. Since Nani routinely had a min 40% win rate in his time in Korea and Naniwa made long runs in Code S. And yet, both these guys would lose to MC/Hyun/MMA in tournaments during the same time period. Heck, Snute is probably the best foreigner because he had a huge win rate in Korea. So, why are those results not translating in tournaments? Oh, because the talent pool is similar. So, you're evaluation of "facts" and "opinions" on Code S players isn't truly existent.
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On August 05 2014 11:25 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2014 09:27 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 02:08 marconi wrote:On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners. haters gonna hate. Gj bunny and teamliquid, awesome job u guys are doing Bunny deserves the plaudits he's received, but sunship's analysis is also accurate (at least in regards to the skill of Koreans attending; unlike him, I don't think there is any kind of pro-foreigner tournament conspiracy). For example, if Bunny played proleague, and he had a 40% win ratio, I would consider that a much greater accomplishment than him winning this tournament. Based on your perception, that means Stephano and Naniwa were the best of all time. Since Nani routinely had a min 40% win rate in his time in Korea and Naniwa made long runs in Code S. And yet, both these guys would lose to MC/Hyun/MMA in tournaments during the same time period. Heck, Snute is probably the best foreigner because he had a huge win rate in Korea. So, why are those results not translating in tournaments? Oh, because the talent pool is similar. So, you're evaluation of "facts" and "opinions" on Code S players isn't truly existent.
I don't think anyone would dispute that Naniwa & Stephano have accomplished much more than Bunny.
But let's be clear. Stephano & Naniwa competed against MC, Hyun, & MMA when they were better players. At one point, they were some of the finest players in the world. Now they aren't. I think I could beat the 80 year old Bill Russell in a basketball game today. If I do, I'll look forward to catabowl declaring me the greatest winner in NBA history.
What's more, you have to look at the players Bunny actually played in this tournament. If I'm correct, he only played Stardust & Hyun. And while normally I'm not one denigrate someone who beats the people who are put in front of him, you have to remember this was a small scale invite tournament. So in this case, doing so is very justified.
Finally, I'm not sure what you're talking about when you're referring to 'win rates in Korea.' I'm referring to a very specific win rate.
Again, Bunny deserves to be celebrated. But if he won 4/10 proleague matches, I'd be much, much more impressed.
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United States33327 Posts
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Huge, huge congrats to Bunny. Guys, we don't have foreign champions in an event this big very often. Let's join in celebrating his accomplishment.
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When the guy said that about terran not winning since 2012, that suddenly just hit me.
I started playing in april 2012 (one month before finals, lol), but I can't remember seeing any foreign terran win any tournament. Maybe Lucifron once in a Dreamhack, but that's about it...
I never realized how few terrans there are that win tournaments and aren't named Taeja...
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On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners.
I think we can pretty much all agree this post was pretty ridiculous. And pretty ignorant as well. No need derailing the whole thread to reply to this dude.
But I'm happy for Bunny, he did well to win! Nobody at that event was essentially a "push-over" and didn't have to go through some watered down bracket to get to the finals either. Well played!
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On August 05 2014 12:34 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2014 11:25 catabowl wrote:On August 05 2014 09:27 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 02:08 marconi wrote:On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners. haters gonna hate. Gj bunny and teamliquid, awesome job u guys are doing Bunny deserves the plaudits he's received, but sunship's analysis is also accurate (at least in regards to the skill of Koreans attending; unlike him, I don't think there is any kind of pro-foreigner tournament conspiracy). For example, if Bunny played proleague, and he had a 40% win ratio, I would consider that a much greater accomplishment than him winning this tournament. Based on your perception, that means Stephano and Naniwa were the best of all time. Since Nani routinely had a min 40% win rate in his time in Korea and Naniwa made long runs in Code S. And yet, both these guys would lose to MC/Hyun/MMA in tournaments during the same time period. Heck, Snute is probably the best foreigner because he had a huge win rate in Korea. So, why are those results not translating in tournaments? Oh, because the talent pool is similar. So, you're evaluation of "facts" and "opinions" on Code S players isn't truly existent. I don't think anyone would dispute that Naniwa & Stephano have accomplished much more than Bunny. But let's be clear. Stephano & Naniwa competed against MC, Hyun, & MMA when they were better players. At one point, they were some of the finest players in the world. Now they aren't. I think I could beat the 80 year old Bill Russell in a basketball game today. If I do, I'll look forward to catabowl declaring me the greatest winner in NBA history. What's more, you have to look at the players Bunny actually played in this tournament. If I'm correct, he only played Stardust & Hyun. And while normally I'm not one denigrate someone who beats the people who are put in front of him, you have to remember this was a small scale invite tournament. So in this case, doing so is very justified. Finally, I'm not sure what you're talking about when you're referring to 'win rates in Korea.' I'm referring to a very specific win rate. Again, Bunny deserves to be celebrated. But if he won 4/10 proleague matches, I'd be much, much more impressed.
I totally laughed when I saw that bit about MC and Hyun not being some of the finest players in the world. Both are world class players that are scary for ANY player in the world to have to face imo.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
i shed a tear of joy whenever articles are bumped after two weeks
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On August 18 2014 13:08 tjtombo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2014 12:34 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 11:25 catabowl wrote:On August 05 2014 09:27 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 02:08 marconi wrote:On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners. haters gonna hate. Gj bunny and teamliquid, awesome job u guys are doing Bunny deserves the plaudits he's received, but sunship's analysis is also accurate (at least in regards to the skill of Koreans attending; unlike him, I don't think there is any kind of pro-foreigner tournament conspiracy). For example, if Bunny played proleague, and he had a 40% win ratio, I would consider that a much greater accomplishment than him winning this tournament. Based on your perception, that means Stephano and Naniwa were the best of all time. Since Nani routinely had a min 40% win rate in his time in Korea and Naniwa made long runs in Code S. And yet, both these guys would lose to MC/Hyun/MMA in tournaments during the same time period. Heck, Snute is probably the best foreigner because he had a huge win rate in Korea. So, why are those results not translating in tournaments? Oh, because the talent pool is similar. So, you're evaluation of "facts" and "opinions" on Code S players isn't truly existent. I don't think anyone would dispute that Naniwa & Stephano have accomplished much more than Bunny. But let's be clear. Stephano & Naniwa competed against MC, Hyun, & MMA when they were better players. At one point, they were some of the finest players in the world. Now they aren't. I think I could beat the 80 year old Bill Russell in a basketball game today. If I do, I'll look forward to catabowl declaring me the greatest winner in NBA history. What's more, you have to look at the players Bunny actually played in this tournament. If I'm correct, he only played Stardust & Hyun. And while normally I'm not one denigrate someone who beats the people who are put in front of him, you have to remember this was a small scale invite tournament. So in this case, doing so is very justified. Finally, I'm not sure what you're talking about when you're referring to 'win rates in Korea.' I'm referring to a very specific win rate. Again, Bunny deserves to be celebrated. But if he won 4/10 proleague matches, I'd be much, much more impressed. I totally laughed when I saw that bit about MC and Hyun not being some of the finest players in the world. Both are world class players that are scary for ANY player in the world to have to face imo.
Sorry but you can not deny that with the rise of the proleague players guys like Hyun,MMA and MC look like less impressive players.
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On August 30 2014 17:07 TaShadan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 13:08 tjtombo wrote:On August 05 2014 12:34 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 11:25 catabowl wrote:On August 05 2014 09:27 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 02:08 marconi wrote:On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners. haters gonna hate. Gj bunny and teamliquid, awesome job u guys are doing Bunny deserves the plaudits he's received, but sunship's analysis is also accurate (at least in regards to the skill of Koreans attending; unlike him, I don't think there is any kind of pro-foreigner tournament conspiracy). For example, if Bunny played proleague, and he had a 40% win ratio, I would consider that a much greater accomplishment than him winning this tournament. Based on your perception, that means Stephano and Naniwa were the best of all time. Since Nani routinely had a min 40% win rate in his time in Korea and Naniwa made long runs in Code S. And yet, both these guys would lose to MC/Hyun/MMA in tournaments during the same time period. Heck, Snute is probably the best foreigner because he had a huge win rate in Korea. So, why are those results not translating in tournaments? Oh, because the talent pool is similar. So, you're evaluation of "facts" and "opinions" on Code S players isn't truly existent. I don't think anyone would dispute that Naniwa & Stephano have accomplished much more than Bunny. But let's be clear. Stephano & Naniwa competed against MC, Hyun, & MMA when they were better players. At one point, they were some of the finest players in the world. Now they aren't. I think I could beat the 80 year old Bill Russell in a basketball game today. If I do, I'll look forward to catabowl declaring me the greatest winner in NBA history. What's more, you have to look at the players Bunny actually played in this tournament. If I'm correct, he only played Stardust & Hyun. And while normally I'm not one denigrate someone who beats the people who are put in front of him, you have to remember this was a small scale invite tournament. So in this case, doing so is very justified. Finally, I'm not sure what you're talking about when you're referring to 'win rates in Korea.' I'm referring to a very specific win rate. Again, Bunny deserves to be celebrated. But if he won 4/10 proleague matches, I'd be much, much more impressed. I totally laughed when I saw that bit about MC and Hyun not being some of the finest players in the world. Both are world class players that are scary for ANY player in the world to have to face imo. Sorry but you can not deny that with the rise of the proleague players guys like Hyun,MMA and MC look like less impressive players.
Absolutely. Flash can't lose in Korea and gets beaten by MC as soon as they meet. MC, hyun, taeja, polt have shown that they are clearly capable of competing against even the very best Korean players. Don't let that get in the way with your embarrassing narrative though!
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On August 30 2014 17:15 ElBlanco wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 17:07 TaShadan wrote:On August 18 2014 13:08 tjtombo wrote:On August 05 2014 12:34 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 11:25 catabowl wrote:On August 05 2014 09:27 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 02:08 marconi wrote:On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners. haters gonna hate. Gj bunny and teamliquid, awesome job u guys are doing Bunny deserves the plaudits he's received, but sunship's analysis is also accurate (at least in regards to the skill of Koreans attending; unlike him, I don't think there is any kind of pro-foreigner tournament conspiracy). For example, if Bunny played proleague, and he had a 40% win ratio, I would consider that a much greater accomplishment than him winning this tournament. Based on your perception, that means Stephano and Naniwa were the best of all time. Since Nani routinely had a min 40% win rate in his time in Korea and Naniwa made long runs in Code S. And yet, both these guys would lose to MC/Hyun/MMA in tournaments during the same time period. Heck, Snute is probably the best foreigner because he had a huge win rate in Korea. So, why are those results not translating in tournaments? Oh, because the talent pool is similar. So, you're evaluation of "facts" and "opinions" on Code S players isn't truly existent. I don't think anyone would dispute that Naniwa & Stephano have accomplished much more than Bunny. But let's be clear. Stephano & Naniwa competed against MC, Hyun, & MMA when they were better players. At one point, they were some of the finest players in the world. Now they aren't. I think I could beat the 80 year old Bill Russell in a basketball game today. If I do, I'll look forward to catabowl declaring me the greatest winner in NBA history. What's more, you have to look at the players Bunny actually played in this tournament. If I'm correct, he only played Stardust & Hyun. And while normally I'm not one denigrate someone who beats the people who are put in front of him, you have to remember this was a small scale invite tournament. So in this case, doing so is very justified. Finally, I'm not sure what you're talking about when you're referring to 'win rates in Korea.' I'm referring to a very specific win rate. Again, Bunny deserves to be celebrated. But if he won 4/10 proleague matches, I'd be much, much more impressed. I totally laughed when I saw that bit about MC and Hyun not being some of the finest players in the world. Both are world class players that are scary for ANY player in the world to have to face imo. Sorry but you can not deny that with the rise of the proleague players guys like Hyun,MMA and MC look like less impressive players. Absolutely. Flash can't lose in Korea and gets beaten by MC as soon as they meet. MC, hyun, taeja, polt have shown that they are clearly capable of competing against even the very best Korean players. Don't let that get in the way with your embarrassing narrative though!
To be honest i did not notice that flash lost 1-2 vs MC. I still think that the overall results of kespa player is better right now. I never said the other player suck though. They are just not as dominant as they were before. BTW you could be a little bit nicer instead you prefer being a retard.
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On August 30 2014 17:21 TaShadan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2014 17:15 ElBlanco wrote:On August 30 2014 17:07 TaShadan wrote:On August 18 2014 13:08 tjtombo wrote:On August 05 2014 12:34 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 11:25 catabowl wrote:On August 05 2014 09:27 -_- wrote:On August 05 2014 02:08 marconi wrote:On August 04 2014 18:39 sunship wrote:
I understand that people see "foreigner beat korean in a finals" and want to be blinded by this concept of "hype" (one of the worst buzzwords to exist in this era IMO) but I feel like this should be said:
For a while, overseas events in particular have had basically the same handful of low-mid tier Koreans (compared to Code S competitors) attending them to face off against foreigners who are admittedly better than average. I feel that this is more than likely in an attempt to set this kind of scenario up, because it's obvious how much attention events receive and how easy it is to "hype" up the chance of something like this happening. However, if you step back and compare the kind of Korean they're facing, it's really not that impressive, and it's almost expected at this point for these Koreans to lose, because they're not the same quality of Korean that competes in Korea.
To me, it seems like these Koreans in particular (coincidentally, MC HyuN jjakji MMA StarDust are perhaps the five that attend the most of these events out of any set of Koreans) keep being invited because not only are foreign fans more capable of recognizing them compared to other Koreans (because they keep getting invited) but also because to a foreigner, they're the most beatable Koreans nowadays, and when all the vast majority of foreign fans are capable of seeing is "a foreigner beat a Korean", the quality of Korean that the foreigner is beating is irrelevant.
I don't mean to rain on a parade here, but it's been obvious for a while, to me at least, what tournaments have been trying to do in this regard when it comes to the whole foreigner taking on the Korean menace bias. I'm probably going to be lambasted because people still think of most of those players listed as if they're still in their 2012 form, which would make a foreigner beating them special, but it's almost 2015, and nearly every single Korean that is actively invited and/or attends foreign events would more than likely struggle to qualify for Code A - just like foreigners. haters gonna hate. Gj bunny and teamliquid, awesome job u guys are doing Bunny deserves the plaudits he's received, but sunship's analysis is also accurate (at least in regards to the skill of Koreans attending; unlike him, I don't think there is any kind of pro-foreigner tournament conspiracy). For example, if Bunny played proleague, and he had a 40% win ratio, I would consider that a much greater accomplishment than him winning this tournament. Based on your perception, that means Stephano and Naniwa were the best of all time. Since Nani routinely had a min 40% win rate in his time in Korea and Naniwa made long runs in Code S. And yet, both these guys would lose to MC/Hyun/MMA in tournaments during the same time period. Heck, Snute is probably the best foreigner because he had a huge win rate in Korea. So, why are those results not translating in tournaments? Oh, because the talent pool is similar. So, you're evaluation of "facts" and "opinions" on Code S players isn't truly existent. I don't think anyone would dispute that Naniwa & Stephano have accomplished much more than Bunny. But let's be clear. Stephano & Naniwa competed against MC, Hyun, & MMA when they were better players. At one point, they were some of the finest players in the world. Now they aren't. I think I could beat the 80 year old Bill Russell in a basketball game today. If I do, I'll look forward to catabowl declaring me the greatest winner in NBA history. What's more, you have to look at the players Bunny actually played in this tournament. If I'm correct, he only played Stardust & Hyun. And while normally I'm not one denigrate someone who beats the people who are put in front of him, you have to remember this was a small scale invite tournament. So in this case, doing so is very justified. Finally, I'm not sure what you're talking about when you're referring to 'win rates in Korea.' I'm referring to a very specific win rate. Again, Bunny deserves to be celebrated. But if he won 4/10 proleague matches, I'd be much, much more impressed. I totally laughed when I saw that bit about MC and Hyun not being some of the finest players in the world. Both are world class players that are scary for ANY player in the world to have to face imo. Sorry but you can not deny that with the rise of the proleague players guys like Hyun,MMA and MC look like less impressive players. Absolutely. Flash can't lose in Korea and gets beaten by MC as soon as they meet. MC, hyun, taeja, polt have shown that they are clearly capable of competing against even the very best Korean players. Don't let that get in the way with your embarrassing narrative though! To be honest i did not notice that flash lost 1-2 vs MC. I still think that the overall results of kespa player is better right now. I never said the other player suck though. They are just not as dominant as they were before. BTW you could be a little bit nicer instead you prefer being a retard.
I never denied that kespa players had better results, obviously they were always going to. They have far more players and basically have all the best starcraft talent so it was inevitable. The fact that MC and hyun are no longer THE best players in the world doesn't suddenly mean that they are suddenly push overs for foreigners. You were basically agreeing with someone who was suggesting that tournaments were rigged by picking easy beat koreans like MC, hyun, jjakiji etc (even though there are obvious reasons why these are the guys at these tournaments). It also completely ignores the fact that these guys have been able to consistently compete with and beat kespa players when they actually travel to foreign tournaments.
BTW calling someone a retard is highly offensive and i don't mean to me either. If you're trying to take the high ground that's a fairly silly way of going about it.
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No offense but it did not look like Taeja is on the same level as Flash right now. Taeja is still a boss and to be honest i thought he will win vs flash in the first place.
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On September 01 2014 01:28 TaShadan wrote:
No offense but it did not look like Taeja is on the same level as Flash right now. Taeja is still a boss and to be honest i thought he will win vs flash in the first place.
It was one series, dude.
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EPT
