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I'd rather see the regeneration scale up and down depending on the Muta's health, as well as a 5 to 10 cooldown before it starts to ramp up.
The lower the health, the better the regeneration, to a max of what we have currently.
This means at around 10-20% health a Muta will heal fast but once it reaches near 60-70% it will only be a little faster than regular Zerg regeneration.
This allows Zergs to still put on pressure and the flock can take a mine hit, but it reduces the amount of constant pressure and damage absorption that the Mutas currently dish out. If the flock keeps hovering around 70% health and there's a cooldown before they regenerate, Zerg will have to be a bit more careful.
The only other change to help against the Muta flock as Terran that I can think of is to buff the Viking by giving it +biological damage (or +light since its Air) and maybe +1 armor.
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On July 17 2014 08:55 ClanRH.TV wrote:
So much crying and its only in the test phase. Why can people never wait until things fully implemented and they show results to complain about changes?
Because none plays the test maps that are only a public relations trick, so the "test phase" is nonexistent and if the patch goes online or not is decided by other factors, and someone thinks that this thread could be one.
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On July 17 2014 10:58 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 10:46 Salient wrote:On July 17 2014 10:39 Loccstana wrote:On July 17 2014 10:12 Salient wrote:On July 17 2014 09:58 Socup wrote:On July 17 2014 04:52 Salient wrote:On July 17 2014 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 17 2014 04:39 Mozdk wrote:On July 17 2014 04:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 17 2014 04:24 Mozdk wrote:
[quote]
This is the wrong way to do it. All other matchups has choices for both sides. And if this change goes through, templar based strats are completely dead in PvT. Which is by far more fun to play and to watch. Well if you want Terran to have more choices the first thing that NEEDS to go is Photon Overcharge. You can't expect there to be parity in terms of options in the match up as long as that shit exists. As far as late game goes, I don't even know what you would have to change to open up the match up. Battlecruisers and Ravens are completely invalidated by Templar and Tempests. Ghost/Viking is the only real late game comp Terran can build that isn't hilariously outmatched by simple Marine/Marauder/Medivac. You can work around photon overcharge with bio. No pros are having trouble with photon overcharge. You cannot, however, work around mines with chargelot+templar builds. No one works around Photon Overcharge, Terran is pigeonholed into a half dozen build orders at most because of Photon Overcharge. Even after Templar openings are dead Protoss will have at least twice as many options as Terran currently does in the match up. If you're serious about talking about providing more options to the race then Photon Overcharge NEEDS to go. There cannot be a serious discussion about opening up the match up as long as that spell exists in its current form. Photon Overcharge is kind of a red herring in this context. It limits cheesy stim timings and things like that in the early game. It has nothing to do with the lack of variety in Terran mid and lategame compositions and styles. The reason Terran lacks variety is that things like Thors, siege tanks, Ravens, and BCs just aren't worth making. You would be crazy to use those units instead of 4M, which is already super effective and continues to get buffed. I don't know why Blizz doesn't try something like giving BCs free Yamato and making that an ability instead of a spell (thus no energy to feedback). That would be a late game buff, which is what most Terrans are asking for, not another midgame buff to 4M. ' Also, I still dont understand any protoss complaining about more shield "damage" on mines. Can you not make observers and kill them at superior range with colossus or stalker? Can you not just retreat and regen your shields? Shields are extra for Protoss, and they come back easily and at no cost for you. It wouldn't matter if mines were +1000000 to shields, you can kill mines before they hit, regen shields. L2micro. It's clear that you don't understand. Yes, ultra powerful widow mines are not a problem if you open Colossus Stalker every single game. The problem is that the game becomes more boring. HT openings are fun and actually require higher skill to execute than colossus builds even before the last mine buff. The last mine buff basically killed HT openings. This one would completely finish the job. So the change makes playing Protoss less fun. But that's not even the worst part. The worst part is that it won't help Terran at all. Widow Mines are already great against Twilight openings. They kind of suck against Robo openings. Ironically, by making the widow mine too powerful, you kill off Twilight openings. You force the Toss to open in a way that is strong against Widow Mines. So we are left with a game that is no more balanced and has less variety. Everyone loses. Looks like the collosus opening needs to be nerfed until it gets used equally with HT openings That's a stupid thing to say. Balancing the game doesn't mean mindlessly nerfing the race you don't play. I keep bringing this up and not getting any responses. Have we actually seen Koreans play Templar openings after +shields? For all we know, Templar is balanced and not UP. Colo being OP as it always has (Protoss was always favored in lategame, nothing new here) would be sufficient explanation for Templar being completely phased out. It's RELATIVELY UP and a lot harder to play, so why bother? That doesn't mean Templar is bad in an objective sense. It might be. If someone has relevant games to link, please do! I'd love to see top Korean PvT with Templar openings in the last month and a half.
Well we see almost none koreans play Templar openings after +shiled buff. The last time I remember someone playing that opening was Dear on frost a while ago (don't remember his oppenent) and he was shut down hard, couldn't put 3rd base so he went hidden expo and still lost. You suggest that templar openings are ok simply colo/stalker are OP. However as I remember the period where templar opening emerged at the beggining of the HOTS, after colo/stalker being used exclusively in WoL, I wouldn't say it was OP nor that terrans where stuggling against it. Actually back then it PvT was really interesting, rather balanced and cool to watch matchup. So right now with this +shield buff to WM if we look at it in the vacuum, yes templar opening are worse than before, when they were (I believe) fairly balanced.
What people are asking for is other buff to terran which helps against colo openings whereas WM buffs don't address it at all and even further force P's to play either really passively/greedy with colo or go for one of build form "Great Protoss Book of Bullshit" 
Edit:
Yesterday I also saw Crank went for Templar opening in PvT on one of the new maps and it was really close game even though Terran didn't even went for mines. He added them only after ~12m where Crank has already placed his 3rd and started colo production to disable WM.
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On July 17 2014 16:18 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 16:02 GoSuNamhciR wrote:On July 17 2014 10:12 Salient wrote:
It's clear that you don't understand. Yes, ultra powerful widow mines are not a problem if you open Colossus Stalker every single game. The problem is that the game becomes more boring. HT openings are fun and actually require higher skill to execute than colossus builds even before the last mine buff. The last mine buff basically killed HT openings. This one would completely finish the job. So the change makes playing Protoss less fun. But that's not even the worst part. The worst part is that it won't help Terran at all. Widow Mines are already great against Twilight openings. They kind of suck against Robo openings. Ironically, by making the widow mine too powerful, you kill off Twilight openings. You force the Toss to open in a way that is strong against Widow Mines. So we are left with a game that is no more balanced and has less variety. Everyone loses.
Protoss has way too many openings in PvT while terran has too few, cutting down the number of options from toss is actually a step in the RIGHT direction for balance in PvT. The problem is not that toss late game is so broken, its that protoss early game is so ridiculously varied and a good protoss can easily deny the reaper scout making the matchup a coinflip for terran to build order lose. Having a 33% chance to instantly lose the game if you choose incorrectly and a 2/3 chance to just have a normal game if you guess correctly is not fair. These buffs/nerfs will actually allow terran to more safely reach the mid game and late game much more often resulting in a more balanced matchup. We do need more variance, but we need more late game variance, not early game. Early game builds should be standardized in terms of aggression, otherwise you will see pro players lose based on build orders (which happens way too much in this game). While being too greedy should be punished, playing standard should not be (i.e. ultra fast oracles, blink all in). Most of these things have been fixed in WOL, if you remember Stim timing in TvP or Double Chrono'd zealot in PvZ.. but a few new ones have arisen in HOTS that definitely need to be taken care of. Once the early game becomes a game about who is BETTER, not whos build order counters whos. Then you can move on to making the game more varied. You can make builds that segway into Stargates by possibly lowering the cost of protoss air upgrades, Remember Phoenix/Colossus? I would like to see this build return. Thors, BC's, Carriers, Broodlords, Tanks, Infestors (Neural sucks!) all need very minor tweaks to make them more applicable in mainstream games, but not in a way that they become the norm... just in a way that they are viable. Thors could be given +1 ground range, while tanks given a buff in damage output vs. light. Broodlords might need a slight boost in speed by .15. Extremely minor changes make the world of difference with units. As much se I understand you, you do not probably realize how boring is it to watch colossus play EVERY time again and again and again ><
Protoss can still open up stargate, blink, dt, or simply gateways, and all are completely viable. Terran can open..........bio. How is that any more exciting?
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On July 17 2014 17:46 KingofGods wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 16:18 deacon.frost wrote:On July 17 2014 16:02 GoSuNamhciR wrote:On July 17 2014 10:12 Salient wrote:
It's clear that you don't understand. Yes, ultra powerful widow mines are not a problem if you open Colossus Stalker every single game. The problem is that the game becomes more boring. HT openings are fun and actually require higher skill to execute than colossus builds even before the last mine buff. The last mine buff basically killed HT openings. This one would completely finish the job. So the change makes playing Protoss less fun. But that's not even the worst part. The worst part is that it won't help Terran at all. Widow Mines are already great against Twilight openings. They kind of suck against Robo openings. Ironically, by making the widow mine too powerful, you kill off Twilight openings. You force the Toss to open in a way that is strong against Widow Mines. So we are left with a game that is no more balanced and has less variety. Everyone loses.
Protoss has way too many openings in PvT while terran has too few, cutting down the number of options from toss is actually a step in the RIGHT direction for balance in PvT. The problem is not that toss late game is so broken, its that protoss early game is so ridiculously varied and a good protoss can easily deny the reaper scout making the matchup a coinflip for terran to build order lose. Having a 33% chance to instantly lose the game if you choose incorrectly and a 2/3 chance to just have a normal game if you guess correctly is not fair. These buffs/nerfs will actually allow terran to more safely reach the mid game and late game much more often resulting in a more balanced matchup. We do need more variance, but we need more late game variance, not early game. Early game builds should be standardized in terms of aggression, otherwise you will see pro players lose based on build orders (which happens way too much in this game). While being too greedy should be punished, playing standard should not be (i.e. ultra fast oracles, blink all in). Most of these things have been fixed in WOL, if you remember Stim timing in TvP or Double Chrono'd zealot in PvZ.. but a few new ones have arisen in HOTS that definitely need to be taken care of. Once the early game becomes a game about who is BETTER, not whos build order counters whos. Then you can move on to making the game more varied. You can make builds that segway into Stargates by possibly lowering the cost of protoss air upgrades, Remember Phoenix/Colossus? I would like to see this build return. Thors, BC's, Carriers, Broodlords, Tanks, Infestors (Neural sucks!) all need very minor tweaks to make them more applicable in mainstream games, but not in a way that they become the norm... just in a way that they are viable. Thors could be given +1 ground range, while tanks given a buff in damage output vs. light. Broodlords might need a slight boost in speed by .15. Extremely minor changes make the world of difference with units. As much se I understand you, you do not probably realize how boring is it to watch colossus play EVERY time again and again and again >< Protoss can still open up stargate, blink, dt, or simply gateways, and all are completely viable. Terran can open..........bio. How is that any more exciting?
reaper expand every single time :D or else gl with flipping a coin... dat excitement playing/watching terran.
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Having just seen IEM Shenzhen Group B, Innovation vs. Snute, Game 1 I wonder, if the Widowmine buff is actually a buff or rather a nerf for Terran. The splash damage buff will also affect the friendly fire damage greatly.
I'd rather see a buff on a reliable Terran unit instead of this dice-rolling one.
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The widow mine buff seems pretty stupid to me, the place the Widow mine had taken before it was nerfed was way too much important and some may say too strong, I would totally agreed that it was over nerfed but the mine in its original states was also problematic. Nevertheless, the return of the mines at its original state+tank buff+the new Hellbat buff which is a threat you have to be prepared for in early game (meaning that you have a weaker midgame) and more important, the new maps this season has brought... That seems to be a LOT for TvZ, while TvP is less affected and I would say is a match up at least as much problematic at highest level.
I'd really have liked to see them work on the Ghost so it would be a more interesting late game option in TvZ and TvP, first byconsidering that Ghost should be a gaz sink unit so reduce it to 100 mineral instead of 150, and maybe buffing Nuke? I don't know, but nukes are exciting as a spectator, they force position play which is good strategic wise, and is a good (on paper) area of effects spell which terran needs in late game when going bio.
An other thing to improve thebalance for TvZ would be to nerfing creep, I would like to see some tests about it like making the creep dissapear faster when the creep tumor are killed so you can't recreep so easilly when the army left the area. It seems to me more neat and subtle as a change while still being effective than just flat out buffing the mines to a state where we know it was problematic.
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On July 17 2014 17:46 KingofGods wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 16:18 deacon.frost wrote:On July 17 2014 16:02 GoSuNamhciR wrote:On July 17 2014 10:12 Salient wrote:
It's clear that you don't understand. Yes, ultra powerful widow mines are not a problem if you open Colossus Stalker every single game. The problem is that the game becomes more boring. HT openings are fun and actually require higher skill to execute than colossus builds even before the last mine buff. The last mine buff basically killed HT openings. This one would completely finish the job. So the change makes playing Protoss less fun. But that's not even the worst part. The worst part is that it won't help Terran at all. Widow Mines are already great against Twilight openings. They kind of suck against Robo openings. Ironically, by making the widow mine too powerful, you kill off Twilight openings. You force the Toss to open in a way that is strong against Widow Mines. So we are left with a game that is no more balanced and has less variety. Everyone loses.
Protoss has way too many openings in PvT while terran has too few, cutting down the number of options from toss is actually a step in the RIGHT direction for balance in PvT. The problem is not that toss late game is so broken, its that protoss early game is so ridiculously varied and a good protoss can easily deny the reaper scout making the matchup a coinflip for terran to build order lose. Having a 33% chance to instantly lose the game if you choose incorrectly and a 2/3 chance to just have a normal game if you guess correctly is not fair. These buffs/nerfs will actually allow terran to more safely reach the mid game and late game much more often resulting in a more balanced matchup. We do need more variance, but we need more late game variance, not early game. Early game builds should be standardized in terms of aggression, otherwise you will see pro players lose based on build orders (which happens way too much in this game). While being too greedy should be punished, playing standard should not be (i.e. ultra fast oracles, blink all in). Most of these things have been fixed in WOL, if you remember Stim timing in TvP or Double Chrono'd zealot in PvZ.. but a few new ones have arisen in HOTS that definitely need to be taken care of. Once the early game becomes a game about who is BETTER, not whos build order counters whos. Then you can move on to making the game more varied. You can make builds that segway into Stargates by possibly lowering the cost of protoss air upgrades, Remember Phoenix/Colossus? I would like to see this build return. Thors, BC's, Carriers, Broodlords, Tanks, Infestors (Neural sucks!) all need very minor tweaks to make them more applicable in mainstream games, but not in a way that they become the norm... just in a way that they are viable. Thors could be given +1 ground range, while tanks given a buff in damage output vs. light. Broodlords might need a slight boost in speed by .15. Extremely minor changes make the world of difference with units. As much se I understand you, you do not probably realize how boring is it to watch colossus play EVERY time again and again and again >< Protoss can still open up stargate, blink, dt, or simply gateways, and all are completely viable. Terran can open..........bio. How is that any more exciting?
Bio units have more play than simple def, camp, eco, tech and then 1a.
The boring part is that terran are forced to go same opening everygame, cant mix in ravens or other late game units such as tanks. Always forced to go viking/ghost vs colo/templar and the big armee vs armee fight is quite boring.
Terran went vult/tank in broodwar everygame and it was fun as hell cuz the opening varied, how many x vults you went and y tanks varied. When you did your expansions. You wanted to add in dropships or not. Wanted to go agressive mode or not.
It was really fun.
Two units but still so much variation.
What iam saying is, is how you can use the units that is the funpart.
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What people are asking for is other buff to terran which helps against colo openings whereas WM buffs don't address it at all and even further force P's to play either really passively/greedy with colo or go for one of build form "Great Protoss Book of Bullshit"
To me it seems that Blizzard simply thinks That if they make Widow Mines extremely "OP" vs protoss, then they will be used vs lategame protoss Collosus compositions as well.
I think we have to wait a bit to see how that plays out, but I would definitely have liked if Templar openings were buffed simultaenously. Like what if 1 Psy storm could kill 1 Mine?
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On July 17 2014 19:05 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 17:46 KingofGods wrote:On July 17 2014 16:18 deacon.frost wrote:On July 17 2014 16:02 GoSuNamhciR wrote:On July 17 2014 10:12 Salient wrote:
It's clear that you don't understand. Yes, ultra powerful widow mines are not a problem if you open Colossus Stalker every single game. The problem is that the game becomes more boring. HT openings are fun and actually require higher skill to execute than colossus builds even before the last mine buff. The last mine buff basically killed HT openings. This one would completely finish the job. So the change makes playing Protoss less fun. But that's not even the worst part. The worst part is that it won't help Terran at all. Widow Mines are already great against Twilight openings. They kind of suck against Robo openings. Ironically, by making the widow mine too powerful, you kill off Twilight openings. You force the Toss to open in a way that is strong against Widow Mines. So we are left with a game that is no more balanced and has less variety. Everyone loses.
Protoss has way too many openings in PvT while terran has too few, cutting down the number of options from toss is actually a step in the RIGHT direction for balance in PvT. The problem is not that toss late game is so broken, its that protoss early game is so ridiculously varied and a good protoss can easily deny the reaper scout making the matchup a coinflip for terran to build order lose. Having a 33% chance to instantly lose the game if you choose incorrectly and a 2/3 chance to just have a normal game if you guess correctly is not fair. These buffs/nerfs will actually allow terran to more safely reach the mid game and late game much more often resulting in a more balanced matchup. We do need more variance, but we need more late game variance, not early game. Early game builds should be standardized in terms of aggression, otherwise you will see pro players lose based on build orders (which happens way too much in this game). While being too greedy should be punished, playing standard should not be (i.e. ultra fast oracles, blink all in). Most of these things have been fixed in WOL, if you remember Stim timing in TvP or Double Chrono'd zealot in PvZ.. but a few new ones have arisen in HOTS that definitely need to be taken care of. Once the early game becomes a game about who is BETTER, not whos build order counters whos. Then you can move on to making the game more varied. You can make builds that segway into Stargates by possibly lowering the cost of protoss air upgrades, Remember Phoenix/Colossus? I would like to see this build return. Thors, BC's, Carriers, Broodlords, Tanks, Infestors (Neural sucks!) all need very minor tweaks to make them more applicable in mainstream games, but not in a way that they become the norm... just in a way that they are viable. Thors could be given +1 ground range, while tanks given a buff in damage output vs. light. Broodlords might need a slight boost in speed by .15. Extremely minor changes make the world of difference with units. As much se I understand you, you do not probably realize how boring is it to watch colossus play EVERY time again and again and again >< Protoss can still open up stargate, blink, dt, or simply gateways, and all are completely viable. Terran can open..........bio. How is that any more exciting? Bio is a composition. It's not an opening. There are many openings that you can use to get to that composition: - Reaper Expand -> 3 Rax Bio or Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
- 111 -> Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
- Proxy 111 -> Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
- Proxy Factory -> 2 Rax Factory All-In (the "Lillekanin Build")
- 1 Rax FE -> 3 Rax Bio or Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
- 14CC -> 3 Rax Bio or Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
Protoss does have a lot of openings, but they more or less all head into a Colossus/Stalker mid-game. Much like how all the Terran openings head into a MMM mid-game. Saying that "Protoss can open Dark Templar" or "Protoss can open Stargate" is irrelevant since it's not like Protoss are going pure Dark Templar or pure Skytoss after opening that way. It's also not that hard to prepare for either of those things, regardless of what Terran players seem to think. It's not that hard to count Pylons and gas geysers >_>; I can only dream of a day where I'm able to go Carriers vs. Terran in a non-cheesy way 
Bio is a comp, not an opening. Problem is that nothing non-bio works, so while the BO differs, the opening is still bio., protoss cheese is easy to scout so terran pro's are stupid?
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On July 17 2014 19:06 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +What people are asking for is other buff to terran which helps against colo openings whereas WM buffs don't address it at all and even further force P's to play either really passively/greedy with colo or go for one of build form "Great Protoss Book of Bullshit"
To me it seems that Blizzard simply thinks That if they make Widow Mines extremely "OP" vs protoss, then they will be used vs lategame protoss Collosus compositions as well. I think we have to wait a bit to see how that plays out, but I would definitely have liked if Templar openings were buffed simultaenously. Like what if 1 Psy storm could kill 1 Mine?
Upgraded banes could 2shot...
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On July 17 2014 19:05 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 17:46 KingofGods wrote:On July 17 2014 16:18 deacon.frost wrote:On July 17 2014 16:02 GoSuNamhciR wrote:On July 17 2014 10:12 Salient wrote:
It's clear that you don't understand. Yes, ultra powerful widow mines are not a problem if you open Colossus Stalker every single game. The problem is that the game becomes more boring. HT openings are fun and actually require higher skill to execute than colossus builds even before the last mine buff. The last mine buff basically killed HT openings. This one would completely finish the job. So the change makes playing Protoss less fun. But that's not even the worst part. The worst part is that it won't help Terran at all. Widow Mines are already great against Twilight openings. They kind of suck against Robo openings. Ironically, by making the widow mine too powerful, you kill off Twilight openings. You force the Toss to open in a way that is strong against Widow Mines. So we are left with a game that is no more balanced and has less variety. Everyone loses.
Protoss has way too many openings in PvT while terran has too few, cutting down the number of options from toss is actually a step in the RIGHT direction for balance in PvT. The problem is not that toss late game is so broken, its that protoss early game is so ridiculously varied and a good protoss can easily deny the reaper scout making the matchup a coinflip for terran to build order lose. Having a 33% chance to instantly lose the game if you choose incorrectly and a 2/3 chance to just have a normal game if you guess correctly is not fair. These buffs/nerfs will actually allow terran to more safely reach the mid game and late game much more often resulting in a more balanced matchup. We do need more variance, but we need more late game variance, not early game. Early game builds should be standardized in terms of aggression, otherwise you will see pro players lose based on build orders (which happens way too much in this game). While being too greedy should be punished, playing standard should not be (i.e. ultra fast oracles, blink all in). Most of these things have been fixed in WOL, if you remember Stim timing in TvP or Double Chrono'd zealot in PvZ.. but a few new ones have arisen in HOTS that definitely need to be taken care of. Once the early game becomes a game about who is BETTER, not whos build order counters whos. Then you can move on to making the game more varied. You can make builds that segway into Stargates by possibly lowering the cost of protoss air upgrades, Remember Phoenix/Colossus? I would like to see this build return. Thors, BC's, Carriers, Broodlords, Tanks, Infestors (Neural sucks!) all need very minor tweaks to make them more applicable in mainstream games, but not in a way that they become the norm... just in a way that they are viable. Thors could be given +1 ground range, while tanks given a buff in damage output vs. light. Broodlords might need a slight boost in speed by .15. Extremely minor changes make the world of difference with units. As much se I understand you, you do not probably realize how boring is it to watch colossus play EVERY time again and again and again >< Protoss can still open up stargate, blink, dt, or simply gateways, and all are completely viable. Terran can open..........bio. How is that any more exciting? Bio is a composition. It's not an opening. There are many openings that you can use to get to that composition: - Reaper Expand -> 3 Rax Bio or Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
- 111 -> Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
- Proxy 111 -> Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
- Proxy Factory -> 2 Rax Factory All-In (the "Lillekanin Build")
- 1 Rax FE -> 3 Rax Bio or Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
- 14CC -> 3 Rax Bio or Mine Drops or Hellion Drops.
Protoss does have a lot of openings, but they more or less all head into a Colossus/Stalker mid-game. Much like how all the Terran openings head into a MMM mid-game. Saying that "Protoss can open Dark Templar" or "Protoss can open Stargate" is irrelevant since it's not like Protoss are going pure Dark Templar or pure Skytoss after opening that way. It's also not that hard to prepare for either of those things, regardless of what Terran players seem to think. It's not that hard to count Pylons and gas geysers >_>; I can only dream of a day where I'm able to go Carriers vs. Terran in a non-cheesy way. Or at all
oh the protoss has two gas? no I know that he only has access to 80% of the possible protoss builds. that helps a lot.
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On July 17 2014 19:20 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 19:06 Hider wrote:What people are asking for is other buff to terran which helps against colo openings whereas WM buffs don't address it at all and even further force P's to play either really passively/greedy with colo or go for one of build form "Great Protoss Book of Bullshit"
To me it seems that Blizzard simply thinks That if they make Widow Mines extremely "OP" vs protoss, then they will be used vs lategame protoss Collosus compositions as well. I think we have to wait a bit to see how that plays out, but I would definitely have liked if Templar openings were buffed simultaenously. Like what if 1 Psy storm could kill 1 Mine? Upgraded banes could 2shot...
Hmm yeh, perhaps. I do feel that the Widow Mine stats could use a larger overhaul in LOTV. Something like this:
- Widow Mine launch time reduced from 1.5 to 1 seconds
- Projectile speed reduced to compensate
- HP reduced to 80
The effect of this should be to make the Widow Mine capable of going off faster vs many units, so it doesn't actually need to be able to tank as well (so it can have less HP). The countermicro is, however, maintained/increased due to the slower projectile speed, which means you send zerglings in to drag the Widow Mines attack into the terran player (to force Friendly Fire).
Further, it's now slightly more practical for the enemy to set 2 Zerglings on the the Widow Mine to force of the activation (since it only requires 1 second instead of 1.5 now).
1 Rax FE -> 3 Rax Bio or Mine Drops or Hellion Drops
Proxy Factory -> 2 Rax Factory All-In (the "Lillekanin Build")
I don't think you shuld list openings that terrna player uses in less than 0.01% of pro games. Also I wouldn't differentiate between proxy and nonproxy openings.
It's also not that hard to prepare for either of those things, regardless of what Terran players seem to think. It's not that hard to count Pylons and gas geysers >
How is you terran offrace doing? Have you started figuring out that noone actually goes 1gate expand into 3gate on 1 geyser? And that everything protoss does basically comes of 2 geysers?
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Having to build blind turrets and bunkers slows down the terran mid-game A LOT. Then we add in the mothership core and the terran mid-game is actually fairly weak. Currently the early and mid-game allows the protoss to get into the late game pretty comfortably.
Even if we know a protoss is proxying, terran still have to guess which proxy the protoss is doing. Proxy stargate, twilight, or robo all require very different responses. You can't just set up a "catch all" defense like the *cough* mothership core *cough*. And so terran are forced to over build all types of defense: turrets in mineral lines in case of oracles, bunker in nat and main in case of blink stalkers, turret in front of nat in case of dts, lots of bunkers in front in case of immortals.
I really don't understand the complaint that protoss can't open straight into templars. They can at least still get templars and be very successful with them later if they want. Terran can't get mech or air (ravens/bcs) at any point, early, mid, or late game. That, in my opinion, is more of a concern than whether or not protoss can tech straight to storm with no other units.
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If you are going up into your base then you won't be leaving it until ~10 mins when you have medivacs as you will get severely contained. If that's the case you might as well just leave because you have no chance to catch up to the protoss who will simply expand instead of committing to the all in.
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On July 17 2014 18:27 BurningRanger wrote:
Having just seen IEM Shenzhen Group B, Innovation vs. Snute, Game 1 I wonder, if the Widowmine buff is actually a buff or rather a nerf for Terran. The splash damage buff will also affect the friendly fire damage greatly.
I'd rather see a buff on a reliable Terran unit instead of this dice-rolling one.
I watched Polt playing in Red Bull Battlegrounds. He built large numbers of widow mines and spread them wide. Then when pressing with his bio against the Zerg he would fall back, off-creep, to the mine field to regroup knowing that the Zerg could not easily follow. That seems a pretty good tactic.
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EPT
