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On July 03 2014 08:07 Redfish wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2014 07:26 ROOTiaguz wrote:On July 03 2014 06:38 Redfish wrote:I'm not arguing the last thing either, that's TheDwf's quote. I think Protoss has an edge now, but I also think that's because we have an insanely stubborn Terran player base that largely sticks with the Bio strategies of WoL, doesn't mix in Starport or Factory units other than Vikings, and then wonders why the things they did two years ago don't work any more today. like what? Thors and tanks don't do enough, hellions aren't built for large style engagements, hellbats suck now you gotta resesarch preignitor (really the strength of pre nerf hellbats was a mixture of how easy it was to include them with merely a single reactor fac and more so that hellbat drops murdered probes and sentries like absolute motherfuckers) and starport units are beaten by protoss storm + their air force. The only factory unit we know is good is the Widow mine which is pretty fucken good more of those please. I can assure you that almost every terran has had their moments of "oh fuck this bio lark" and made factory units and realised they're bad. When hots was in beta and early released most of us probably messed about with mech some and realised it has far more disadvantages then advantages. We'll see the mech revolution happen when someone makes it happen but currently no one wants to be that terran (except Supernova, whose mech tvp is flashy and interesting but I don't think it's working out too great for him.) We stubbornly stick to bio because we know it works. Sure it has a few problems but at least we know that marauder + medivac can get shit done reliably. I give up. Suggestions for creative Mech buffs get shot down, people insist absolutely that Bio is better without devoting the time to practice Mech (because "no one wants to be that terran" apparently) and we get nowhere. No wonder our game is dying.
When I die, I want 45 pages of people discussing me too.
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I'd like to see something else besides a widow mine or medivac change. What about making siege tank attack faster by .1 (to 2.7).
Better yet, buff Battlecruisers in some way.
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On July 03 2014 08:09 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2014 08:07 Redfish wrote:On July 03 2014 07:26 ROOTiaguz wrote:On July 03 2014 06:38 Redfish wrote:I'm not arguing the last thing either, that's TheDwf's quote. I think Protoss has an edge now, but I also think that's because we have an insanely stubborn Terran player base that largely sticks with the Bio strategies of WoL, doesn't mix in Starport or Factory units other than Vikings, and then wonders why the things they did two years ago don't work any more today. like what? Thors and tanks don't do enough, hellions aren't built for large style engagements, hellbats suck now you gotta resesarch preignitor (really the strength of pre nerf hellbats was a mixture of how easy it was to include them with merely a single reactor fac and more so that hellbat drops murdered probes and sentries like absolute motherfuckers) and starport units are beaten by protoss storm + their air force. The only factory unit we know is good is the Widow mine which is pretty fucken good more of those please. I can assure you that almost every terran has had their moments of "oh fuck this bio lark" and made factory units and realised they're bad. When hots was in beta and early released most of us probably messed about with mech some and realised it has far more disadvantages then advantages. We'll see the mech revolution happen when someone makes it happen but currently no one wants to be that terran (except Supernova, whose mech tvp is flashy and interesting but I don't think it's working out too great for him.) We stubbornly stick to bio because we know it works. Sure it has a few problems but at least we know that marauder + medivac can get shit done reliably. I give up. Suggestions for creative Mech buffs get shot down, people insist absolutely that Bio is better without devoting the time to practice Mech (because "no one wants to be that terran" apparently) and we get nowhere. No wonder our game is dying. When I die, I want 45 pages of people discussing me too.
You're too modest. Aim for more regarding you death notice.
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On July 03 2014 08:07 Redfish wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2014 07:26 ROOTiaguz wrote:On July 03 2014 06:38 Redfish wrote:I'm not arguing the last thing either, that's TheDwf's quote. I think Protoss has an edge now, but I also think that's because we have an insanely stubborn Terran player base that largely sticks with the Bio strategies of WoL, doesn't mix in Starport or Factory units other than Vikings, and then wonders why the things they did two years ago don't work any more today. like what? Thors and tanks don't do enough, hellions aren't built for large style engagements, hellbats suck now you gotta resesarch preignitor (really the strength of pre nerf hellbats was a mixture of how easy it was to include them with merely a single reactor fac and more so that hellbat drops murdered probes and sentries like absolute motherfuckers) and starport units are beaten by protoss storm + their air force. The only factory unit we know is good is the Widow mine which is pretty fucken good more of those please. I can assure you that almost every terran has had their moments of "oh fuck this bio lark" and made factory units and realised they're bad. When hots was in beta and early released most of us probably messed about with mech some and realised it has far more disadvantages then advantages. We'll see the mech revolution happen when someone makes it happen but currently no one wants to be that terran (except Supernova, whose mech tvp is flashy and interesting but I don't think it's working out too great for him.) We stubbornly stick to bio because we know it works. Sure it has a few problems but at least we know that marauder + medivac can get shit done reliably. I give up. Suggestions for creative Mech buffs get shot down, people insist absolutely that Bio is better without devoting the time to practice Mech (because "no one wants to be that terran" apparently) and we get nowhere. No wonder our game is dying.
Yeah, SC2 ded because no one listens to you.
There are players who do practice mech. If mech was so superior to bio, we'd see it in results. Where do you see avilo? Where do you see supernova's mech against P? Seriously.
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I know you don't speak for "the pros", but since you're there, would you prefer they make the standard terran strategies stronger with their buff, or would you prefer they give terran a more complete tree by making the lesser used units more attractive (the risk is the games becoming more boring, since mech games seem to inspire less people due to their turtly nature)?
Can only speak for myself.
I'm ok with them buffing anything since any buff increases my chances of winning games and that's what I'm trying to do. As a spectator obviously you want them buffing the less used units so games look different. That's common sense I should think.
I give up. Suggestions for creative Mech buffs get shot down, people insist absolutely that Bio is better without devoting the time to practice Mech (because "no one wants to be that terran" apparently) and we get nowhere.
No wonder our game is dying.
The mech revolution occurs when either a) the best players of Protoss start losing to mech strategies or b) Maru or Taeja or Innovation starts doing it and it catches on. If the best terrans in the world aren't using mech (presumably because it's not as good as bio), who is anyone to argue with them?
And by what basis do you think mech is inherently better? Have you tried it?
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On July 03 2014 08:14 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2014 08:07 Redfish wrote:On July 03 2014 07:26 ROOTiaguz wrote:On July 03 2014 06:38 Redfish wrote:I'm not arguing the last thing either, that's TheDwf's quote. I think Protoss has an edge now, but I also think that's because we have an insanely stubborn Terran player base that largely sticks with the Bio strategies of WoL, doesn't mix in Starport or Factory units other than Vikings, and then wonders why the things they did two years ago don't work any more today. like what? Thors and tanks don't do enough, hellions aren't built for large style engagements, hellbats suck now you gotta resesarch preignitor (really the strength of pre nerf hellbats was a mixture of how easy it was to include them with merely a single reactor fac and more so that hellbat drops murdered probes and sentries like absolute motherfuckers) and starport units are beaten by protoss storm + their air force. The only factory unit we know is good is the Widow mine which is pretty fucken good more of those please. I can assure you that almost every terran has had their moments of "oh fuck this bio lark" and made factory units and realised they're bad. When hots was in beta and early released most of us probably messed about with mech some and realised it has far more disadvantages then advantages. We'll see the mech revolution happen when someone makes it happen but currently no one wants to be that terran (except Supernova, whose mech tvp is flashy and interesting but I don't think it's working out too great for him.) We stubbornly stick to bio because we know it works. Sure it has a few problems but at least we know that marauder + medivac can get shit done reliably. I give up. Suggestions for creative Mech buffs get shot down, people insist absolutely that Bio is better without devoting the time to practice Mech (because "no one wants to be that terran" apparently) and we get nowhere. No wonder our game is dying. Yeah, SC2 ded because no one listens to you. There are players who do practice mech. If mech was so superior to bio, we'd see it in results. Where do you see avilo? Where do you see supernova's mech against P? Seriously.
I dont think that unit comp is avilo's problem. He wont be winning any major tournaments if mech suddenly becomes viable.
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On July 03 2014 08:34 MrLightning wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2014 08:14 plogamer wrote:On July 03 2014 08:07 Redfish wrote:On July 03 2014 07:26 ROOTiaguz wrote:On July 03 2014 06:38 Redfish wrote:I'm not arguing the last thing either, that's TheDwf's quote. I think Protoss has an edge now, but I also think that's because we have an insanely stubborn Terran player base that largely sticks with the Bio strategies of WoL, doesn't mix in Starport or Factory units other than Vikings, and then wonders why the things they did two years ago don't work any more today. like what? Thors and tanks don't do enough, hellions aren't built for large style engagements, hellbats suck now you gotta resesarch preignitor (really the strength of pre nerf hellbats was a mixture of how easy it was to include them with merely a single reactor fac and more so that hellbat drops murdered probes and sentries like absolute motherfuckers) and starport units are beaten by protoss storm + their air force. The only factory unit we know is good is the Widow mine which is pretty fucken good more of those please. I can assure you that almost every terran has had their moments of "oh fuck this bio lark" and made factory units and realised they're bad. When hots was in beta and early released most of us probably messed about with mech some and realised it has far more disadvantages then advantages. We'll see the mech revolution happen when someone makes it happen but currently no one wants to be that terran (except Supernova, whose mech tvp is flashy and interesting but I don't think it's working out too great for him.) We stubbornly stick to bio because we know it works. Sure it has a few problems but at least we know that marauder + medivac can get shit done reliably. I give up. Suggestions for creative Mech buffs get shot down, people insist absolutely that Bio is better without devoting the time to practice Mech (because "no one wants to be that terran" apparently) and we get nowhere. No wonder our game is dying. Yeah, SC2 ded because no one listens to you. There are players who do practice mech. If mech was so superior to bio, we'd see it in results. Where do you see avilo? Where do you see supernova's mech against P? Seriously. I dont think that unit comp is avilo's problem. He wont be winning any major tournaments if mech suddenly becomes viable.
But he'd make deeper runs than he currently does.
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But he'd make deeper runs than he currently does.
I highly doubt Avilo is capable of making a tournament win happen, no matter how viable Mech is. He is the kind of person who's attitude affects his play greatly and will lose games the same way Idra used too. It has nothing to do with his skill, he just gives up too easily and defeats himself.
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On July 03 2014 08:41 Konranjyoutai wrote:I highly doubt Avilo is capable of making a tournament win happen, no matter how viable Mech is. He is the kind of person who's attitude affects his play greatly and will lose games the same way Idra used too. It has nothing to do with his skill, he just gives up too easily and defeats himself.
Again, not win tournament. Make deeper run like ro8 maybe? Ro16?
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On July 03 2014 08:43 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2014 08:41 Konranjyoutai wrote: But he'd make deeper runs than he currently does.
I highly doubt Avilo is capable of making a tournament win happen, no matter how viable Mech is. He is the kind of person who's attitude affects his play greatly and will lose games the same way Idra used too. It has nothing to do with his skill, he just gives up too easily and defeats himself. Again, not win tournament. Make deeper run like ro8 maybe? Ro16?
Sounds about right, similar to Idra throughout much of his career. Strong showings but not dominant by any means.
Seriously though, Strelok and Goody would do so much better if Mech were to be buffed.
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United States7483 Posts
On July 03 2014 08:41 Konranjyoutai wrote:I highly doubt Avilo is capable of making a tournament win happen, no matter how viable Mech is. He is the kind of person who's attitude affects his play greatly and will lose games the same way Idra used too. It has nothing to do with his skill, he just gives up too easily and defeats himself.
No, it has to do with skill too, he's not good.
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TheDwf is it possible to transform your suggestions into a test map?
I think its worth testing it to give some feedback on how it would change TvX
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two buffs to widow mine: decrease firing delay time, make them less visually visible while burrowed.
Medivac buffs are not necessary at all.
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Oh for crying out loud blizzard, just scrap the current siege tank and bring back this guy:
+ Show Spoiler +
And while you're at it bring back this guy too:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Actually, they need to buff widow mine with a simple idea: Smartfire.
Next they need to buff battlecruisers by allowing them to continue firing while they're discharging the yamato cannon. So they dont lose DPS while trying to get a large hit on something important.
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Vikings + Thors are Goliaths. They perform the same function. Stop asking for a unit called a goliath when there are two units which do what a Goliath does. If you like a game that features a Goliath go watch Broodwar. You're not going to see BW style mech in SC2 anyway simply due to how resource and income works and how army movement works.
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On July 02 2014 03:00 r691175002 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 02:57 stuchiu wrote:Mutas are still nearly immortal. If you can't kill them in 1 hit it doesn't matter how much anti-air they have.
And ZvZ needs a patch. And I liked PvP more when oracles were slower. I agree with this man. Mutas are starting to get out of hand, especially on the larger maps. I think we either need to tweak the regen or provide better options. I don't know what those options are, but on a whim could giving vikings a tiny splash help a bit? The oracle speed buff should be reverted as well. It never made any sense, and Protoss really doesn't need to have 6 viable proxy strategies.
Yes man! Ripwave missiles from the campaign! And of course make it a fairly-expensive upgrade that's researched at the fusion core, or perhaps even an add-on that attaches to the fusion core, since Terran's tech-tree is way too short atm imo.
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I am serious about keeping Terran the way it is atm...except for one change - - - give them a late game!!!!! by giving them an extra set of upgrades - 4/4...make each cost 400/400. That is all that is needed...bcos lets face it...3/3 ling bane muta is up to the task....and even a 2/2 stormy protoss death ball is up to the task of a 4/4 Terran max of anything...
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United States7483 Posts
On July 03 2014 09:26 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 03:00 r691175002 wrote:On July 02 2014 02:57 stuchiu wrote:Mutas are still nearly immortal. If you can't kill them in 1 hit it doesn't matter how much anti-air they have.
And ZvZ needs a patch. And I liked PvP more when oracles were slower. I agree with this man. Mutas are starting to get out of hand, especially on the larger maps. I think we either need to tweak the regen or provide better options. I don't know what those options are, but on a whim could giving vikings a tiny splash help a bit? The oracle speed buff should be reverted as well. It never made any sense, and Protoss really doesn't need to have 6 viable proxy strategies. Yes man! Ripwave missiles from the campaign! And of course make it a fairly-expensive upgrade that's researched at the fusion core, or perhaps even an add-on that attaches to the fusion core, since Terran's tech-tree is way too short atm imo.
Ripwave missiles would effect PvT too much, but the general idea is good. A fusion core required upgrade that increases the area of effect of the Thor's Javelin missiles would accomplish a similar effect in TvZ, allowing terran to have a later game response to mass muta that's actually achievable out of a bio mid-game, without making terran overly strong against colossus play.
A battlecruiser buff is not uncalled for either.
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lol Blizzard never learns. They'll patch this game over and over until they may or may not eventually come up with a decent balance? A game needs time to be figured out. It took many years before Bisu single-handedly revolutionized the PvZ Match-up and made Protoss thus a strong race to play.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/4/3704/53480.gif)
![[image loading]](http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100811023308/starcraft/images/0/01/Goliath_SC1_CineUEDVicRep1.jpg)
