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4 Posts
SKT's  Classic continued his breakout run through Code S, defeating last remaining Terran  JinAir_Maru to secure the first spot in the grand finals. Relatively untested in PvT, Classic had initially seemed the underdog against TvP master Maru. However, solid all-around play allowed Classic to come through with the 4-2 victory.
Classic got off to a strong start by taking game one on Frost, overpowering Maru in an exciting, late-game slugfest. Maru was quick to recover a point, however, punishing Classic for attempting to put together a Phoenix-Colossus composition with a well-timed attack on Merry-Go-Round.
Surprisingly, Classic only dipped into his famous bag of tricks in game three, executing a proxy-gate to delay Maru's expansion. Despite Classic's aggressive opener, the game manage to reach the later phases, with Classic again overpowering Maru with a deathball army. However, Classic would not keep his lead for long, with yet another failed attempt at Phoenix-Colossus allowing Maru to tie up the series in game four.
Classic finally got the Phoenix-Colossus composition to work in game five, thanks to the vast distances between bases on Alterzim Stronghold. One could see what Classic had tried to achieve in previous games, with phoenixes picking apart Maru's drops and straggling units after they hit critical mass.
The series ended in game six on King Sejong Station, with Classic opening up with some blink stalker pressure before transitioning into a standard macro game. Maru did his best to try and take Classic off balance with drops, but it was to no avail as the SKT Protoss survived to trample Maru in the late game once more.
Classic now awaits the winner of  TRUE vs soO in the Code S grand finals.
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Well done, Classic. By all reason this should be soO's season to win - finally - but doubt TRUE at your peril. Two excellent players of ZvZ will make this an entertaining semi and I reckon we will get that Jin Air vs SKT final, just not the one everyone expected 
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On June 19 2014 14:10 FlyingSheeP wrote:
Protossed.
as expected
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Isn't this like the 3rd time soo will have made the finals? Crazy if so...
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On June 19 2014 14:24 ElMeanYo wrote:
Isn't this like the 3rd time soo will have made the finals? Crazy if so...
Basically, if you don't count the Global Championship. It would be funny if he got a 3rd silver hehehe. Kong too strong.
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On June 19 2014 14:24 ElMeanYo wrote:
Isn't this like the 3rd time soo will have made the finals? Crazy if so...
If he makes it... TRUE has strong ZvZ and defeated soO the last time, and only time for that matter they met. While it would be awesome to have soO get into the final and surpass Jaedong as master of silver, games between teammates are often disappointing, so game wise Classic vs TRUE might be better.
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if it's soO vs classic for finals i hope soO loses... all the zerg tears were yummy the last 2 times :D
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And thus my absolute hatred for Alterzim Stronghold continues.
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United States97276 Posts
so disappointed Maru didn't make it to the final to help his chances of making Blizzcon. going to need a good run next season
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On June 19 2014 14:45 Shellshock wrote:
so disappointed Maru didn't make it to the final to help his chances of making Blizzcon. going to need a good run next season
It's going to be really silly when WCS Korea is only going to be able to send a couple players to Blizzcon while the majority of the players make it through racking up foreign tournament kills.
I'm worried we're going to get another repeat of 2012 where the Korean reps just stomp through everyone. I hope that doesn't happen.
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On June 19 2014 14:47 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 14:45 Shellshock wrote:
so disappointed Maru didn't make it to the final to help his chances of making Blizzcon. going to need a good run next season It's going to be really silly when WCS Korea is only going to be able to send a couple players to Blizzcon while the majority of the players make it through racking up foreign tournament kills. I'm worried we're going to get another repeat of 2012 where the Korean reps just stomp through everyone. I hope that doesn't happen.
Following up on Shellbot's comment, wouldn't it be a travesty if Blizzcon was without Maru, soO and Soulkey? The most consistent terran and zergs from the hardest region having to miss out... urgh...
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On June 19 2014 14:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 14:24 ElMeanYo wrote:
Isn't this like the 3rd time soo will have made the finals? Crazy if so... If he makes it... TRUE has strong ZvZ and defeated soO the last time, and only time for that matter they met. While it would be awesome to have soO get into the final and surpass Jaedong as master of silver, games between teammates are often disappointing, so game wise Classic vs TRUE might be better.
While TRUE did beat soO last time, it didn't really feel like the sort of series to me where he would have come out on top if it had been a bo7. The other thing to take into consideration is that soO's ro8 performance was just about the best ZvZ ever seen in sc2.
Regardless of who wins, both the coming semi finals match and finals should be extremely fun to watch.
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These games were sad for the terran race 
gg classic
Why did Maru stop to use mines ? They are still strong against mass chargelot no ?
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So Sad. Hope crushed. Despair overflowing.
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On June 19 2014 15:44 Insoleet wrote:These games were sad for the terran race gg classic Why did Maru stop to use mines ? They are still strong against mass chargelot no ?
Classic opened Collosus all games.
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France9034 Posts
Meh, there goes the chance of seeing a KR premier tournament won by a Terran. C'mon, it's been 2 years and a half for GSL, close to one year for OSL...
Props to Classic though, Maru is no joke in TvP.
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Where can replays or VODs be watched without spending 20$ to subscribe to the TwitchTv version?
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Let's remember that maru is at 1-5 this round in proleague, so he hasn't been at his top lately (too much energy spent on his match against Soulkey?)
Although as the noob terran I am, I would very much like to see waystation far spawns and alterzim removed from the map pool of important tournaments, it doesn't seem very fair for T...
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Another PvZ GSL Code S final
Not sure if I want soO to advance so it can be an SKT Team Kill in the end. Or maybe TRUE can just play spoiler and win it all.
But very bummed Maru lost.
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OP should mention that Maru focussed on mid-game damage thats why his late game was run over. Classic bascially stopped Maru's style of play. Great series.
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On June 19 2014 16:13 Socup wrote:
Where can replays or VODs be watched without spending 20$ to subscribe to the TwitchTv version?
As far as I know, you can either watch the games being streamed live, or buy the season pass to watch the games. Neither is an acceptable option for me, so I just accept the fact that I'm not going to watch any GSL.
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imo that is just classic maru. so true.
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there is a way to get the streams for free that requires no sub and you get it right off twitch. but I like the GSL so i am not going to spread the way to do it.
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On June 19 2014 14:52 metzninja wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 14:47 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 19 2014 14:45 Shellshock wrote:
so disappointed Maru didn't make it to the final to help his chances of making Blizzcon. going to need a good run next season It's going to be really silly when WCS Korea is only going to be able to send a couple players to Blizzcon while the majority of the players make it through racking up foreign tournament kills. I'm worried we're going to get another repeat of 2012 where the Korean reps just stomp through everyone. I hope that doesn't happen. Following up on Shellbot's comment, wouldn't it be a travesty if Blizzcon was without Maru, soO and Soulkey? The most consistent terran and zergs from the hardest region having to miss out... urgh...
Time for them to venture out of Korea for the easy WCS Points.
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silly that Classic won that waystaition game. Maru was ahead the entire time, but then classic just a-moved him to death.
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On June 19 2014 17:02 Geschan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 14:52 metzninja wrote:On June 19 2014 14:47 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 19 2014 14:45 Shellshock wrote:
so disappointed Maru didn't make it to the final to help his chances of making Blizzcon. going to need a good run next season It's going to be really silly when WCS Korea is only going to be able to send a couple players to Blizzcon while the majority of the players make it through racking up foreign tournament kills. I'm worried we're going to get another repeat of 2012 where the Korean reps just stomp through everyone. I hope that doesn't happen. Following up on Shellbot's comment, wouldn't it be a travesty if Blizzcon was without Maru, soO and Soulkey? The most consistent terran and zergs from the hardest region having to miss out... urgh... Time for them to venture out of Korea for the easy WCS Points.
Yeah WCS system is broken. When you see that GSL global championship(the only non WCS competition that gives WCS points in korea) is giving half the WCS points of an easy farm Dreamhack you understand why Blizzcon will be featuring only the likes of Jjakji, MC etc... that are good farmers. Blizzcon could transform into a total stomp made by the 1-3 WCS korea players going in it.
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On June 19 2014 16:49 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 16:13 Socup wrote:
Where can replays or VODs be watched without spending 20$ to subscribe to the TwitchTv version? As far as I know, you can either watch the games being streamed live, or buy the season pass to watch the games. Neither is an acceptable option for me, so I just accept the fact that I'm not going to watch any GSL.
You can also watch them 2 weeks after season end on youtube, or through the korean android app
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This is where i stop watching GSL until next season.Too much PvP and PvZ in these last 6 months.
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On June 19 2014 16:36 yoshi245 wrote:Another PvZ GSL Code S final Not sure if I want soO to advance so it can be an SKT Team Kill in the end. Or maybe TRUE can just play spoiler and win it all. But very bummed Maru lost.
i haven't watched a gsl final since soulkey/innovation
i enjoy the road getting there, though
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On June 19 2014 15:54 Ragnarork wrote:
Meh, there goes the chance of seeing a KR premier tournament won by a Terran. C'mon, it's been 2 years and a half for GSL, close to one year for OSL...
Props to Classic though, Maru is no joke in TvP.
the game is balanced, don't know what you are talking about
On June 19 2014 14:16 asdfOu wrote:as expected...
...long before semifinals
btw Ragnarok I was just kidding, ofc i know what you mean. Warning, here comes some balance thoughts (again), if you don't wanna read it, then don't :
+ Show Spoiler +
But there are so many things that need to be looked at again by blizzard, that I don't balance whine anymore. No I don't mean the game is inbalanced in so many ways, but that some mechanics are clearly just stupid. Free Units(SH, BL), Warpin across the map (why not change the warpgate time to be longer then normal gateway time or so if you want to keep warpin in the game blizzard), the ammount of micro/macro and multiharass that is needed for the T compared to the deathball that marches towards the terran base, while toss just needs 2 templars for feedbacks and storms at home - the rest will be deald with by the warping in chargelots (talking mid/lategame here ofc). The tons of aggressive, easy to use but hard to defend openers (blink, oracle etc) a terran has to blindly prepare for because you can hide tech... and is then behind. Or the widow mine mechanics...
Every(!) race has some stupidity and I don't say ALL of the above is to be changed at once or so, but should be altered a bit. Also, but this is because I am no Korean Pro, I'd like to see a sort of delay before storm. A small red dot or aerea at the area where the storms will hit just a fracture of a second before it hits just like you see the fungals incoming or the EMPs.
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
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On June 19 2014 17:28 klup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 17:02 Geschan wrote:On June 19 2014 14:52 metzninja wrote:On June 19 2014 14:47 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 19 2014 14:45 Shellshock wrote:
so disappointed Maru didn't make it to the final to help his chances of making Blizzcon. going to need a good run next season It's going to be really silly when WCS Korea is only going to be able to send a couple players to Blizzcon while the majority of the players make it through racking up foreign tournament kills. I'm worried we're going to get another repeat of 2012 where the Korean reps just stomp through everyone. I hope that doesn't happen. Following up on Shellbot's comment, wouldn't it be a travesty if Blizzcon was without Maru, soO and Soulkey? The most consistent terran and zergs from the hardest region having to miss out... urgh... Time for them to venture out of Korea for the easy WCS Points. Yeah WCS system is broken. When you see that GSL global championship(the only non WCS competition that gives WCS points in korea) is giving half the WCS points of an easy farm Dreamhack you understand why Blizzcon will be featuring only the likes of Jjakji, MC etc... that are good farmers. Blizzcon could transform into a total stomp made by the 1-3 WCS korea players going in it.
There will be a Tier1 "Kespa-tournament" (weekend-tourney) with 80k prizemoney. Sadly no 100k for $o$ 
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On June 19 2014 19:42 Rollora wrote:
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
Why bother ? You do not need to do that in order to win.
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On June 19 2014 20:05 Sidhoum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 19:42 Rollora wrote:
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
Why bother ? You do not need to do that in order to win.
that is my problem here:
You don't need to to everything possible to secure the win. Save some minerals and maybe gas? No just drop and don't care anymore.
Maybe the race is designed that way, or maybe I am over-sensitive on that topic because I started as terran (switched) and there you have to watch your drops or you lose them, if you lose them you lose lots of resources and time to rebuild army again (which you don't have).
So why is it not needed to save units, to multitask for that drop (it can do so much, let alone distract the opponent)? As you said, it is not needed in order to win, but is it because blizzard designed the game that way and you don't have the spare apm for that as Z or P or is it because the races aren't needed to be played to the limit to win. Which again, would state to some balance problems here
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On June 19 2014 20:05 Sidhoum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 19:42 Rollora wrote:
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
Why bother ? You do not need to do that in order to win.
HerO tried it against Taeja and lost a bunch of high energy HTs to a viking. He lost the game soon after that. A few storms would have saved him if he had kept the templar for the main army.
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On June 19 2014 20:12 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 20:05 Sidhoum wrote:On June 19 2014 19:42 Rollora wrote:
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
Why bother ? You do not need to do that in order to win. that is my problem here: You don't need to to everything possible to secure the win. Save some minerals and maybe gas? No just drop and don't care anymore. Maybe the race is designed that way, or maybe I am over-sensitive on that topic because I started as terran (switched) and there you have to watch your drops or you lose them, if you lose them you lose lots of resources and time to rebuild army again (which you don't have). So why is it not needed to save units, to multitask for that drop (it can do so much, let alone distract the opponent)? As you said, it is not needed in order to win, but is it because blizzard designed the game that way and you don't have the spare apm for that as Z or P or is it because the races aren't needed to be played to the limit to win. Which again, would state to some balance problems here
Warp Prism harass is very common. The chargelots aren't very microable (melee). So it's similar to a ling runby.
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Gogo classic! SKT final please
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Because you pay 200/200 for the worst dropping mechanism in the game. Only a moron would not react on time against a slow dropship carrying 4 supply of lings/banes. Yes, it is true that you can do huge doomdrops but you need 1 ovy per 4 supply of lingbane and that also means that the drop rate is very slow (0.5 supply/instance). Dont act like z dont use them because they are lazy. They are just a shitty gimmick....... MAYBE roach drops vs mech are decent sometimes.
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[Maru fanboyism intensifies]
Classic proved himself the better player, that's all. Blame it on protoss or David Kim or whatever you want, Maru got outplayed.
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United States23455 Posts
On June 19 2014 14:47 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 14:45 Shellshock wrote:
so disappointed Maru didn't make it to the final to help his chances of making Blizzcon. going to need a good run next season It's going to be really silly when WCS Korea is only going to be able to send a couple players to Blizzcon while the majority of the players make it through racking up foreign tournament kills. I'm worried we're going to get another repeat of 2012 where the Korean reps just stomp through everyone. I hope that doesn't happen.
Yeah plus Koreans used to dominate the season global finals which got them more points, but now that those are gone it is harder than ever for players in that region to get WCS points
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France9034 Posts
On June 19 2014 19:42 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 15:54 Ragnarork wrote:
Meh, there goes the chance of seeing a KR premier tournament won by a Terran. C'mon, it's been 2 years and a half for GSL, close to one year for OSL...
Props to Classic though, Maru is no joke in TvP. the game is balanced, don't know what you are talking about Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 14:16 asdfOu wrote:On June 19 2014 14:10 FlyingSheeP wrote:
Protossed. as expected... ...long before semifinals btw Ragnarok I was just kidding, ofc i know what you mean. Warning, here comes some balance thoughts (again), if you don't wanna read it, then don't : + Show Spoiler +
But there are so many things that need to be looked at again by blizzard, that I don't balance whine anymore. No I don't mean the game is inbalanced in so many ways, but that some mechanics are clearly just stupid. Free Units(SH, BL), Warpin across the map (why not change the warpgate time to be longer then normal gateway time or so if you want to keep warpin in the game blizzard), the ammount of micro/macro and multiharass that is needed for the T compared to the deathball that marches towards the terran base, while toss just needs 2 templars for feedbacks and storms at home - the rest will be deald with by the warping in chargelots (talking mid/lategame here ofc). The tons of aggressive, easy to use but hard to defend openers (blink, oracle etc) a terran has to blindly prepare for because you can hide tech... and is then behind. Or the widow mine mechanics...
Every(!) race has some stupidity and I don't say ALL of the above is to be changed at once or so, but should be altered a bit. Also, but this is because I am no Korean Pro, I'd like to see a sort of delay before storm. A small red dot or aerea at the area where the storms will hit just a fracture of a second before it hits just like you see the fungals incoming or the EMPs.
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
Where do you see anything related to balance in my post :3 ? I don't. 
I only say things that are factually true and never left to interpretation
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I really expected Maru to take this one but congratz to classic. PvT has been back and forth so much lately for him so it was hard to tell if he could take the win. Classic has really grown as a player the past 6 months and I feel he's turning into one of the top Protoss in the world.
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Watching Classic improve through the last PL I knew he was going to be a champ soon.
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Great games, probably best series this season. Wolfs screaming ruined it for me
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Not a particularly interesting final without Maru.
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Oh look, another PvZ GSL Finals.
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On June 19 2014 20:59 Salient wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 20:05 Sidhoum wrote:On June 19 2014 19:42 Rollora wrote:
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
Why bother ? You do not need to do that in order to win. HerO tried it against Taeja and lost a bunch of high energy HTs to a viking. He lost the game soon after that. A few storms would have saved him if he had kept the templar for the main army.
That is what happens when you fly the warp prism into the Terran army. Hero was so sloppy.
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On June 19 2014 19:42 Rollora wrote:
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
why would anyone ever baneling drop? Even diamond players know that baneling drop is not worth it. It costs so fucking much, it's never cost effective. In order for it to be worth you have to wipe at least 2full mineral lines, and that's considering they can be scouted with nearly anything protoss/terran has, even a random medivac may spot it. If the opponent is watching the minimap he will not lose anything as well. Also if you do baneling drops and the opponent moves across the map at any random time you just lose, because you can't have enough units by spending so much into this worthless tech. Even if he's playing in an economic manner, he can still just walk the map and kill you because of a failed bane drop.
Baneling drop is just as worthless as nydus. Nydus is only useful in ZvZ in very very specific situations and it's still considered cheese. Against other races you don't even need to scout it to defend, just need vision in the high ground and pull SCVs/probes and you can destroy a 250/300 tech and fuckload of units investment.
As you said every race has its bullshit:
terran: don't need any strategy. (just go marine/bio/something and trade everything to death with good mechanics). There's no positional play anymore. (maybe tatics yes, but strategy def not)
protoss: easier to play, way too many a-move units (void rays, colossus, immortal), has strongest all-ins and strongest late-game and that makes people very mad.
zerg: have to defend everything during the first 10-15mins, can't do anything else, there's no room or way to harass; you gotta scout and defend the whole time. Always have to win the game because of economy. Also some units with terrible design (SH was supposed to be a siege unit, but you can't siege anything with it, its completely the other way arround, you have to stay defensive for the rest of the game). Corruptors, nydus and overlord drops are very bad as well.
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On June 19 2014 17:02 Geschan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 14:52 metzninja wrote:On June 19 2014 14:47 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 19 2014 14:45 Shellshock wrote:
so disappointed Maru didn't make it to the final to help his chances of making Blizzcon. going to need a good run next season It's going to be really silly when WCS Korea is only going to be able to send a couple players to Blizzcon while the majority of the players make it through racking up foreign tournament kills. I'm worried we're going to get another repeat of 2012 where the Korean reps just stomp through everyone. I hope that doesn't happen. Following up on Shellbot's comment, wouldn't it be a travesty if Blizzcon was without Maru, soO and Soulkey? The most consistent terran and zergs from the hardest region having to miss out... urgh... Time for them to venture out of Korea for the easy WCS Points.
Easy? It's not like they haven't been sent out. They just can't perform in these "easy" tournament.
Remember classic in IEM? He was there, just barely noticeable.
Maybe it's too "hard" for them, who knows
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maru is stub·born.that is why he lost the series.
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France9034 Posts
On June 20 2014 03:18 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 17:02 Geschan wrote:On June 19 2014 14:52 metzninja wrote:On June 19 2014 14:47 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 19 2014 14:45 Shellshock wrote:
so disappointed Maru didn't make it to the final to help his chances of making Blizzcon. going to need a good run next season It's going to be really silly when WCS Korea is only going to be able to send a couple players to Blizzcon while the majority of the players make it through racking up foreign tournament kills. I'm worried we're going to get another repeat of 2012 where the Korean reps just stomp through everyone. I hope that doesn't happen. Following up on Shellbot's comment, wouldn't it be a travesty if Blizzcon was without Maru, soO and Soulkey? The most consistent terran and zergs from the hardest region having to miss out... urgh... Time for them to venture out of Korea for the easy WCS Points. Easy? It's not like they haven't been sent out. They just can't perform in these "easy" tournament. Remember classic in IEM? He was there, just barely noticeable. Maybe it's too "hard" for them, who knows
I'd not take Classic as an example here. He is improving, at a constant rate. At those IEM, he was sent out by Polt, who's quite known for being insanely good. (Yes, even by the almighty godly korea standards).
I'd rather consider that there's a true difference between planned series and weekend rush tournaments. And there really are two kinds of players, with a few actually really good in both format, but clearly not the norm. Though the Sandisk invitational let us see that some proleague players are actually really good too at those shorter, faster tournaments....
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Not knowing who Classic was, I read "Maru defeated" and thought "Maru is an incredible player, must have been a PvT."
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Really hoping TRUE can succeed where Maru failed - it would be incredible for him to break all the way into the Grand Final after never having previously reached the Ro16, even.
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On June 19 2014 22:11 Karpfen wrote:
Because you pay 200/200 for the worst dropping mechanism in the game.
you already have the overloard so what does there cost so much if you save the unit... (beside banelings :D )
Only a moron would not react on time against a slow dropship carrying 4 supply of lings/banes.
Could be a late scout as well, and how do I see that there are banelings inside?On June 20 2014 02:41 DuduSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 19:42 Rollora wrote:
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
why would anyone ever baneling drop? Even diamond players know that baneling drop is not worth it. It costs so fucking much, it's never cost effective. In order for it to be worth you have to wipe at least 2full mineral lines,
???
How is the investment of 2-4 banelings per overload that you drop on a mineral line and propably kill like 6-10 scvs not worth it? Strange argument "not worth it", when I have so much success with it, especially in ZvZ but it works in every matchup.
Also: did you ever count how many banelings you waste because of non-perfect micro in battles? you can always spare a few ones for harass.
On June 20 2014 02:41 DuduSC wrote: and that's considering they can be scouted with nearly anything protoss/terran has, even a random medivac may spot it. If the opponent is watching the minimap he will not lose anything as well. Also if you do baneling drops and the opponent moves across the map at any random time you just lose, because you can't have enough units by spending so much into this worthless tech. Even if he's playing in an economic manner, he can still just walk the map and kill you because of a failed bane drop.
.
what you say can happen to ANY drop. Who says you need to load in in the main and send the overload all over the map. Just use the one that is already at the natural of the opponent....
On June 20 2014 02:41 DuduSC wrote:
As you said every race has its bullshit:
terran: don't need any strategy. (just go marine/bio/something and trade everything to death with good mechanics). There's no positional play anymore. (maybe tatics yes, but strategy def not).
yeah, it's been a while since we saw TvT
On June 20 2014 02:41 DuduSC wrote:
protoss: easier to play, way too many a-move units (void rays, colossus, immortal), has strongest all-ins and strongest late-game and that makes people very mad.
this, and that every below GM player who wins with a-moves (there are good toss players out there, I know that, I am strictly refering to the ones that get the ez wins), seems to really believe he played better...
And as a player of it, it is the most boring race to play of all 3.
On June 20 2014 02:41 DuduSC wrote:
zerg: have to defend everything during the first 10-15mins, can't do anything else, there's no room or way to harass; you gotta scout and defend the whole time.
This is because of the current meta and also a balance problem: as Zerg-Opponent you HAVE to attack the whole time, or his eco will outrun yours and then the switching game begins...
And if you don't have the apm to constantly harass, micro, macro, outmultitask your opponent... Zerg wins.
On June 20 2014 02:41 DuduSC wrote:
Always have to win the game because of economy. Also some units with terrible design (SH was supposed to be a siege unit, but you can't siege anything with it, its completely the other way arround, you have to stay defensive for the rest of the game). Corruptors, nydus and overlord drops are very bad as well.
Hmmm I think Zerg has tons of options to be agressive, not only Hive-Tech-Units.
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Zealot run by or via warp prism is good to dump extra minerals toss usually have. It's preferred than HT drop i'd say. Once you got 6-8 chargelot at unexpectedly, most of the time a good chunk of terran army needs to go back to deal with it, buying time for toss to re-build or position themselves better, 2 pronged attack or establish a new base.
While HT may kill scv faster, it only takes a number of marines to kill it. More over toss rather dump mineral than gas.
Zealot harrass a number of times everytime terran goes out for an attack, it pulls them back so slightly until toss get enough army and upgrades.
This was what Classic did againts maru most of the time to buy time.1st, 5th, and last game were good example. Most of the time when this harass works, Classic won the game.
All in all i think the series is a lot closer than it looks with the exception of game 5.
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[QUOTE]On June 20 2014 08:26 Rollora wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 19 2014 22:11 Karpfen wrote:
Because you pay 200/200 for the worst dropping mechanism in the game. [/QUOTE]
you already have the overloard so what does there cost so much if you save the unit... (beside banelings :D )
[QUOTE]
Only a moron would not react on time against a slow dropship carrying 4 supply of lings/banes.[/QUOTE]
Could be a late scout as well, and how do I see that there are banelings inside?[QUOTE][B]On June 20 2014 02:41 DuduSC
[/QUOTE]
You know its baneling inside if the overlord doesnt drop before reaching the mineral line. You don't even need to know that there are banelings inside, because you will pull the workers way anyway.
The difference is that unlike terran drops, you can not get way with the overlords or just pick up and leave, you will lose everything 90% of the time, we don't have boost or stim or anything to get way.
Also, unlike terran, we have to get way too many upgrades way too early in other to use drops effectively. In order to drop early enough we have to skip a lot of tech, drones, upgrades and defensive units. There's no point in dropping the terran late game, they will always have tons of turrets, it's just better to use mutalisks.
Against protoss the timings are so strict that if we spend with banelings, OV speed, OV drop, bane nest we would just die to any decent timing. It would be suicidal. I would say that even against terrans the timings are strict.. imagine any pro trying to bane drop Taeja with his crazy fast 2/2 timing. Maybe baneling drops would work in a very late ZvT game scenario in big maps with very late drops on expos and such (so you can harass expos with Planetary Fortress).. but even then I would not risk so much into it.
There are other small differences as well. For instance, in order to bane drop we need to make extra overlords !before! dropping, instead of remaking them later (like terrans remake the medivacs after they lose), this cripples the economy even more.
Oh, and yes we lose banes to bad splash, but that's the only way to deal with the current compositions that terrans are making. We can't slowly engage firebats, we have to commit everything, it's the best way to engage (small engagements favor hellbats a lot more as they can tank well enough when there aren't enough banes and can be healed). Small engagements before the big fights are only good when the opponent makes too many widow mines.
But yeah I do think it's good to harass with small pack of banes/lings.. I am just saying it's not worth to invest into overlord drops. ZvT can be so tricky that sometimes you would rather not spend banelings killing SCVs.
I haven't tried much but I think bane drops in ZvZ are really bad. The higher you get in ranked matches, the more strict ZvZ becomes, at some point you can not even deviate anything otherwise you will just die to normal mass roach pushouts.
I don't know the players you are playing against so I will not comment on that.
PM me if you wanna say anything.
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Classic is really looking like a professional. Can't say the same about Maru... I was really expecting some cheese here and there but he didn't, any ideas why?
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Classic took the game to the late-game where Protoss shines the most against Terran.. Congrats to him.
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On June 20 2014 08:26 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2014 22:11 Karpfen wrote:
Because you pay 200/200 for the worst dropping mechanism in the game. you already have the overlord so what does there cost so much if you save the unit... (beside banelings :D ) Show nested quote +
Only a moron would not react on time against a slow dropship carrying 4 supply of lings/banes.
Could be a late scout as well, and how do I see that there are banelings inside? Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 02:41 DuduSC wrote:On June 19 2014 19:42 Rollora wrote:
Also I don't get why there aren't more players using banelingdrops or more stormdrops. They can do crazy ammount of damage. And why we never see some drop harass by zerg or toss and load back in units. Not worth it I guess.
why would anyone ever baneling drop? Even diamond players know that baneling drop is not worth it. It costs so fucking much, it's never cost effective. In order for it to be worth you have to wipe at least 2full mineral lines, ??? How is the investment of 2-4 banelings per overload that you drop on a mineral line and propably kill like 6-10 scvs not worth it? Strange argument "not worth it", when I have so much success with it, especially in ZvZ but it works in every matchup. Also: did you ever count how many banelings you waste because of non-perfect micro in battles? you can always spare a few ones for harass.
Then drops are supergood and you are the Zerg Messiah who just discovered it while everyone thinks they are shit and gave you reasons.
200/200 (same price as a spire) is not low at all. Why the fuck would I want "HURR DURR DROPS" when I have mutas already? if an ovy can go unnoticed and drop banes in then sure as hell 4ms units can deal the same amount of damage with no losses and actually be useful for other things.
Now, if you want to go on discussing you must tell me what benefits do drops add over mutas in a standard bio vs Z situation. I want to hear.
Edit: another brick in your already demolished argument: you can fool the terran once and get like 8 SCVs but then what? How is he going to get fooled again? Will he think I am constantly scouting his mineral line despite the damage he recieved? So it's 200/200 for drops, 100/100 for banes in exchange of 8 SCVs which are not THAT worthy because of mules. The main problem is that drop tech has no other uses. Medivacs heal but what do ovies do? Don't even try with the supply thing.
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