|
Keep "my game is better than yours"-slapfights out of this. If the discussion devolves into simple bashing, this thread will be closed. |
On September 16 2014 13:20 sc2isnotdying wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2014 08:21 Spaylz wrote:
I'm sure it's the case in SC2 too, don't get me wrong, it's simply that Blizzard wanted to put a high emphasis on esports with SC2, and in the end it didn't work out that great. Another debate really. Not true. esports was an afterthought for SC2. Outside of Korea, where there was already an established market, Blizzard wasn't invested at all in esports for SC2 at the time of the games release. WCS came later. In Korea, they let an IP dispute hold back the scene. The popularity of esports clearly took Blizzard by surprise and they have been playing catchup ever since. To the comments concerning LoTV and when it will be released, I think we should expect an announcement at Blizzcon. And lets clear something up: Every project has its own budget. The fact that they are devoting a lot resources to WoW and Hearthstone doesn't take resources away from SC2. Blizzard doesn't run its finances like you might run your personal budget.
IIRC Heroes of the Storm uses a lot of the same staff as SC2, so it's pretty much literally confirmed that it is taking away from SC2 development.
|
I think SC2 sucks as a game. not fun to watch neither to play. Sorry for the harsh tone, but fuck the politeness. I'm not saying SC2 could be #1 esports. But atleast it could be somewhere along hearthstone or CS.
The "RTS is in decline" is a bullshit argument. Its a lame excuse to delusion ourselves.There wasn't any popularity of card games until Hearthstone. Guess what, game design matters, the more its fun the more people will play/watch it, it has nothing to do with its genre. It all depends how good the game is.
Sorry for spitting it out. But I've spent more than 12 years of my life following rts games starting from AoE2, BW and WC3. SC2 ended it in a such sad manner. I have all rights to be upset and to hate this game.
As for the topic. I hope Day9's new rts project - "Atlas" will be a good game. I think the man has right idea how rts should be. It can be seen in many of his videos, where he analyzes and implies sc2 imperfections, suggests what could be good for rts game and what not. Not sure if its gonna be popular, but atleast I hope it will get some attention and playerbase.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On September 16 2014 13:20 sc2isnotdying wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2014 08:21 Spaylz wrote:
To the comments concerning LoTV and when it will be released, I think we should expect an announcement at Blizzcon. And lets clear something up: Every project has its own budget. The fact that they are devoting a lot resources to WoW and Hearthstone doesn't take resources away from SC2. Blizzard doesn't run its finances like you might run your personal budget.
actually they do. listen to a few of their interviews about why SC2 took so long.
people were pulled off of other projects to work on and maintain WoW.
Morhaime stated that they are very picky about who they choose to hire. and so they can't just "double the work force" just by saying it is so. As a result, the top talents will often be pulled from project to project.
most software companies, Blizzard included, pull people off of other projects to work on the company's latest beta test for the next upcoming software release. why does this happen?
because next piece of software coming out represents CASH.
|
All projects having delegate budgets is true. But they all share from the same limited pool and how bu any given budget is depends entirely on how good the product managers are at "selling/pitching" their product group. It's wrong to think that blizzard as a whole has infinite resources with which to evenly spread amongst its projects.
But you're right that once the budget is set, post developments in the market won't affect the preset budget except for a full go/full stop order. As in they won't reduce preset budgets and will instead either cancel or continue projects based on demand. Companies don't really fun half ass. Either they believe a product will make money, or they don't believe I will make money. If it will make money the preset budget stays.
But before a budget is set the market presence *will* influence where each budget will be set. And I do not believe for a second that blizz is short changing the wow team nor are they giving the wow team an equal cut of the r&d budget with the rest of the blizzard products.
|
On July 27 2014 12:58 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2014 10:08 FT.aCt)Sony wrote:
Beta for it should be open or popping up around November/December of this year and run up to 6 months give or take. thanks for the laugh. when there is nothing at all about LotV at Blizzcon 2014 i'll revive this thread. LotV development won't be truly underway until HotS is complete. http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/810955-heroes-of-the-storm-release-date-rumors-blizzards-new-moba-not-entering-beta-soon-because-it-could-crash-wow/Blizzard's RTS team has bigger fish to fry. if you have any info on new LotV units and/or campaign teaser videos.... just link them up. but, really there is nothing going on with LotV... no info .. nothing. and its not like Blizzard sneaks up on people with new releases. you always have a very good idea what is coming next. and there is a huge lead time... just look at how Heart of the Swarm and WoL were released... and D3 and the D3 expansion... and all the D3 console stuff. so far anything SC2 related has always had lots of Blizzcon content long before it ever has either a BETA test or a release date. this trend is not changing now.
I'll revive it for you so you can eat your crow for knowing so little about blizzard.
|
And with new personnel hired it looks like the story for the campaign is written...still standing by the earlier prediction of November 15 or March 16 for Legacy of the Void. And seems there will be a typical blizzard multiple race cooperation final battle to end the story.
|
On November 08 2014 04:34 Eliezar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2014 12:58 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On July 27 2014 10:08 FT.aCt)Sony wrote:
Beta for it should be open or popping up around November/December of this year and run up to 6 months give or take. thanks for the laugh. when there is nothing at all about LotV at Blizzcon 2014 i'll revive this thread. LotV development won't be truly underway until HotS is complete. http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/810955-heroes-of-the-storm-release-date-rumors-blizzards-new-moba-not-entering-beta-soon-because-it-could-crash-wow/Blizzard's RTS team has bigger fish to fry. if you have any info on new LotV units and/or campaign teaser videos.... just link them up. but, really there is nothing going on with LotV... no info .. nothing. and its not like Blizzard sneaks up on people with new releases. you always have a very good idea what is coming next. and there is a huge lead time... just look at how Heart of the Swarm and WoL were released... and D3 and the D3 expansion... and all the D3 console stuff. so far anything SC2 related has always had lots of Blizzcon content long before it ever has either a BETA test or a release date. this trend is not changing now. I'll revive it for you so you can eat your crow for knowing so little about blizzard.
Haha
Jimmy always thinks he knows it all.
|
Its interesting that the thread on the future of RTS comes to a halt when the next big RTS is announced with changes from its predecessor. Just saying 
|
I don't want to give up on economy. But I would like to get the economics simplified. Like maybe only one kind of resource and no supply block like in Total Annihilation Kingdoms, or maybe one kind of resource that's only for buildings and units and another kind of resource that's only for tech upgrades.
I really think that the "attack, defend, expand" trilemma is essential
|
On May 14 2014 05:40 imJealous wrote:
- The way that smart-firing AI (no overkill), unit clumping from smart pathing, abilities like forcefield and fungal, and the bonus damage model in SC2 cause armies to disappear in a split second with little that a casual player can do to rebound from a mistake
There is no no-overkill in sc2, except for units without a projectile.
Melee units and marines have no overkill, all other units do.
This is one of the biggest reasons marines are so super powerful, they do not overkill.
|
On November 24 2014 21:47 kaluro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 05:40 imJealous wrote:
- The way that smart-firing AI (no overkill), unit clumping from smart pathing, abilities like forcefield and fungal, and the bonus damage model in SC2 cause armies to disappear in a split second with little that a casual player can do to rebound from a mistake
There is no no-overkill in sc2, except for units without a projectile. Melee units and marines have no overkill, all other units do. This is one of the biggest reasons marines are so super powerful, they do not overkill.
Tanks have no overkill?
|
On November 24 2014 21:47 kaluro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 05:40 imJealous wrote:
- The way that smart-firing AI (no overkill), unit clumping from smart pathing, abilities like forcefield and fungal, and the bonus damage model in SC2 cause armies to disappear in a split second with little that a casual player can do to rebound from a mistake
There is no no-overkill in sc2, except for units without a projectile. Melee units and marines have no overkill, all other units do. This is one of the biggest reasons marines are so super powerful, they do not overkill.
Actually units WITH projectiles have overkill, because AI doesn't take into account that the projectiles currently flying towards the target would already kill it, so additional shots are fired, which land after the unit is already dead. Units WITHOUT projectiles don't overkill. Tempests would be a good example, they overkill like crazy on a single marine.
Regarding this topic: RTS have been said to be dead even in the period between Brood War and Starcraft 2. There were some command and conquer titles but those were in decline. WC3 isn't really an RTS for me, it's for me the mixture between moba and RTS that you described pretty much.
Also, why the heck did saddaromma get a tempban for that? Are you not allowed to speak you mind that a certain game sucks here? Though I don't share the view he brings valid points in his post and the tone isn't as harsh as the initial preemptive excuse might make you think?
|
Warcraft 4, cuz it makes rts a little bit more casual than sc2 is and it has heros you can identify with.
|
On November 24 2014 22:19 TzTz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 21:47 kaluro wrote:On May 14 2014 05:40 imJealous wrote:
- The way that smart-firing AI (no overkill), unit clumping from smart pathing, abilities like forcefield and fungal, and the bonus damage model in SC2 cause armies to disappear in a split second with little that a casual player can do to rebound from a mistake
There is no no-overkill in sc2, except for units without a projectile. Melee units and marines have no overkill, all other units do. This is one of the biggest reasons marines are so super powerful, they do not overkill. Actually units WITH projectiles have overkill, because AI doesn't take into account that the projectiles currently flying towards the target would already kill it, so additional shots are fired, which land after the unit is already dead. Units WITHOUT projectiles don't overkill. Tempests would be a good example, they overkill like crazy on a single marine. Regarding this topic: RTS have been said to be dead even in the period between Brood War and Starcraft 2. There were some command and conquer titles but those were in decline. WC3 isn't really an RTS for me, it's for me the mixture between moba and RTS that you described pretty much. Also, why the heck did saddaromma get a tempban for that? Are you not allowed to speak you mind that a certain game sucks here? Though I don't share the view he brings valid points in his post and the tone isn't as harsh as the initial preemptive excuse might make you think?
Top of the page should give you the answer you are searching for regarding saddaromma.
Didn't like WC3 too much myself, but it is of course an RTS game. From my personal feelings, WC3 is closer to Starcraft than Starcraft is to some hardcore Strategy-focused RTS-game like SupCom.
|
|
|
On November 24 2014 22:19 TzTz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 21:47 kaluro wrote:On May 14 2014 05:40 imJealous wrote:
- The way that smart-firing AI (no overkill), unit clumping from smart pathing, abilities like forcefield and fungal, and the bonus damage model in SC2 cause armies to disappear in a split second with little that a casual player can do to rebound from a mistake
There is no no-overkill in sc2, except for units without a projectile. Melee units and marines have no overkill, all other units do. This is one of the biggest reasons marines are so super powerful, they do not overkill. Actually units WITH projectiles have overkill, because AI doesn't take into account that the projectiles currently flying towards the target would already kill it, so additional shots are fired, which land after the unit is already dead. Units WITHOUT projectiles don't overkill. Tempests would be a good example, they overkill like crazy on a single marine. Regarding this topic: RTS have been said to be dead even in the period between Brood War and Starcraft 2. There were some command and conquer titles but those were in decline. WC3 isn't really an RTS for me, it's for me the mixture between moba and RTS that you described pretty much. Also, why the heck did saddaromma get a tempban for that? Are you not allowed to speak you mind that a certain game sucks here? Though I don't share the view he brings valid points in his post and the tone isn't as harsh as the initial preemptive excuse might make you think?
Between broodwar and sc2 there was quite a number of popular RTS games such as AoEII, C&C tiberian sun, RA2 and of course, regardless of whether you consider it an RTS or not: WC3. Admittedly the last of those games was 2003, but the two biggest esports that I can think of pre sc2 times were both RTS games in broodwar and WC3.
As a fan of the genre going back to the original C&C I do have that the genre is feeling fairly lacklustre in recent years. Need some new titles, maybe valve or some indie company can rise up.
|
On November 25 2014 00:13 KrOmander wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 22:19 TzTz wrote:On November 24 2014 21:47 kaluro wrote:On May 14 2014 05:40 imJealous wrote:
- The way that smart-firing AI (no overkill), unit clumping from smart pathing, abilities like forcefield and fungal, and the bonus damage model in SC2 cause armies to disappear in a split second with little that a casual player can do to rebound from a mistake
There is no no-overkill in sc2, except for units without a projectile. Melee units and marines have no overkill, all other units do. This is one of the biggest reasons marines are so super powerful, they do not overkill. Actually units WITH projectiles have overkill, because AI doesn't take into account that the projectiles currently flying towards the target would already kill it, so additional shots are fired, which land after the unit is already dead. Units WITHOUT projectiles don't overkill. Tempests would be a good example, they overkill like crazy on a single marine. Regarding this topic: RTS have been said to be dead even in the period between Brood War and Starcraft 2. There were some command and conquer titles but those were in decline. WC3 isn't really an RTS for me, it's for me the mixture between moba and RTS that you described pretty much. Also, why the heck did saddaromma get a tempban for that? Are you not allowed to speak you mind that a certain game sucks here? Though I don't share the view he brings valid points in his post and the tone isn't as harsh as the initial preemptive excuse might make you think? Between broodwar and sc2 there was quite a number of popular RTS games such as AoEII, C&C tiberian sun, RA2 and of course, regardless of whether you consider it an RTS or not: WC3. Admittedly the last of those games was 2003, but the two biggest esports that I can think of pre sc2 times were both RTS games in broodwar and WC3. As a fan of the genre going back to the original C&C I do have that the genre is feeling fairly lacklustre in recent years. Need some new titles, maybe valve or some indie company can rise up.
While I admittedly only got into esports with SC2, wasn't Counter-Strike quite big, at least in the west?
|
On November 25 2014 00:29 Propelled wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2014 00:13 KrOmander wrote:On November 24 2014 22:19 TzTz wrote:On November 24 2014 21:47 kaluro wrote:On May 14 2014 05:40 imJealous wrote:
- The way that smart-firing AI (no overkill), unit clumping from smart pathing, abilities like forcefield and fungal, and the bonus damage model in SC2 cause armies to disappear in a split second with little that a casual player can do to rebound from a mistake
There is no no-overkill in sc2, except for units without a projectile. Melee units and marines have no overkill, all other units do. This is one of the biggest reasons marines are so super powerful, they do not overkill. Actually units WITH projectiles have overkill, because AI doesn't take into account that the projectiles currently flying towards the target would already kill it, so additional shots are fired, which land after the unit is already dead. Units WITHOUT projectiles don't overkill. Tempests would be a good example, they overkill like crazy on a single marine. Regarding this topic: RTS have been said to be dead even in the period between Brood War and Starcraft 2. There were some command and conquer titles but those were in decline. WC3 isn't really an RTS for me, it's for me the mixture between moba and RTS that you described pretty much. Also, why the heck did saddaromma get a tempban for that? Are you not allowed to speak you mind that a certain game sucks here? Though I don't share the view he brings valid points in his post and the tone isn't as harsh as the initial preemptive excuse might make you think? Between broodwar and sc2 there was quite a number of popular RTS games such as AoEII, C&C tiberian sun, RA2 and of course, regardless of whether you consider it an RTS or not: WC3. Admittedly the last of those games was 2003, but the two biggest esports that I can think of pre sc2 times were both RTS games in broodwar and WC3. As a fan of the genre going back to the original C&C I do have that the genre is feeling fairly lacklustre in recent years. Need some new titles, maybe valve or some indie company can rise up. While I admittedly only got into esports with SC2, wasn't Counter-Strike quite big, at least in the west?
Yes 1.6 was pretty huge. Not sure it was quite as big as wc3 in Europe & China or broodwar was in Korea though.
Thinking again It definitely did not reach the levels of bw in Korea although had a more international scene for sure.
|
CS 1.6 in here was probably bigger among high school students then league, everyone back then knew CS. But few people actually had home pcs, internet was even rarer, so it was a LAN shop thing. The skip school to play CS was what made kids cool, that and being good at football.
Today high school kids play a bunch of things, LoL is just the most popular, and since everybody has a pc and internet, it shows on twitch and other center hubs.
From what I know about China, WC3 was really huge there, thanks to Sky success. But it was eventually surpass by dota once Icefrog took over. WC3 Dota was once the biggest thing in China's college scene.
And there are still big WC3 tourneys in China today.
|
if there was a warcraft 4 like game, or a new wc3 like RTS, how would you want it to be different? i see a LOT of people apparently wanting it, but as a wc3 -player i remember only derision towards the game (not unlike the derision towards sc2 in this thread) near its end, and not just because of orc...
i also have a custom wc3 map that i work (off and on) on, with new units and more balanced races, and without heroes. so looking for what people want, maybe ill continue working on it  at the time i started making it people were saying sc was superior as an RTS because of how heroes fuck up wc3, so i had removed heroes. i had tested creeps at expansions purely to give an implicit added cost to expanding. now people seem to like the idea of heroes after MOBA blows up. i can't imagine how hard it is to make people happy as a game designer, lol...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
