On May 23 2014 06:06 Mistakes wrote: Something like that would work if there were the StarCraft 2: Casual and StarCraft 2: Pro versions. The casual version would be free and you could buy stuff with micro transactions like you stated. But the pro version or "pro package" from the store ($60) would change the game to be "tournament" or "pro" mode to make it balanced and fair. Also laddering would (or should) only be allowed for people who are using the "pro mode" of the game, again to keep it fair.
I could possibly see something like that working. Making micro transactions work in an RTS and an extremely competitive (with a legacy) RTS such as StarCraft is really difficult.
I think they are going in that direction already, with Starter Edition (Arcade/Customs) being F2P.
Meanwhile the full campaign and ladder still costs money.
With LotV, Blizz has another chance to advertise the F2P version (which they don't seem to market well at all, right now).
You can already level up to skins. It'd be cool to buy non-standard skins.
On May 23 2014 06:13 Xiphos wrote: ^Actually adding skins + models + voice pack isn't exactly difficult to add in SC2.
Yes but balancing extra buildings, units, upgrades, etc is. And people probably wouldn't spend a whole ton of money on making their SCVs look different and the Psionic Storm ability having a different splash animation. Haha. At least I wouldn't think.
They could get the community to do it instead. The DotA 2 have workshop, let people publish their own models and such. Getting the community involved while making a buck at it.
http://www.koboldtribes.com/ (while the blog is not kept up regularly, the forums are fairly active, and the game is about to see another update which allows for multi-team & FFA variants).
I would encourage everyone who has an interest in both MOBA's and RTS to give it a try and help grow our small community!
Everytime I hear people whine about how bad the arcade is I keep thinking about these small but thriving communities of SC2 mods. Bravo sir
I've been saying this for a while too. Everytime I go into arcade or custom I see a range of fun and different games. Many of which are then mentioned in various threads as being non-existent and what SC2 needs. It could be argued that these need to be more publicised by Blizzard, but at the same time, it is also up to us to publicise and play.
I've been going into arcade and custom more recently (partly out of a sense of investigation because of threads like this) and I am surprised at the number of different games possible to be made in SC2. People should get in there and have a go.
On May 23 2014 05:42 urboss wrote: How might this work in an RTS game? - You can purchase different skins - You can speed up some single player missions - You can purchase additional heros - You can purchase additional races - You can purchase additional buildings - You can purchase extra upgrades/tech - You can purchase additional single player game modes - If we have custom race design --> Make some valuable units purchasable - If we have custom unit design --> Make some valuable upgradable parts purchasable
lol $0.99 per cheat code
Sounds so silly coming from the Warcraft 2/BW days but that is what's happening now, isn't it
Can you imagine having to pay a buck to use "power overwhelming" or "black sheep wall"
You can't sell two different versions of the essentially same game.. people won't be inclined to buy a product if you're belittling them by calling them casuals either.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: it is more than possible to have a game which is fun to play casually but also difficult and competitive to play at a high level. There are numerous examples of such RTS and generally this is an indication of proper game design.
The problem with skins is that they add clutter to the observation of the game. We need to be able to see what's happening. They've already added a few skins but even that is quite a lot imo. I do like the skins to the pylon and supply depot. I do think they could add lots of skins to buildings as a way for people to customize their own look. But customizing the units I think is pretty distracting.
And yes, I think I think a lot of people are asking for Warcraft 3. Which is fine. Warcraft 3 is a good game. I'm kind of curious what more they want out of Warcraft 3.
On May 23 2014 05:42 urboss wrote: Kobold Tribes looks like a very unique game with some interesting ideas. I wouldnt call it "RTS" though. So it is probably not what we are looking for in this thread.
What is your criteria for "RTS"? That you need to be able to spam units from production structures? Kobold Tribes has its own economy/tech/attack timings just like an RTS and utilizes terrain and building placement as core gameplay mechanics. What you do in Real Time affects your Strategy -- your APM still dictates to some degree your success. If these things do not fit "RTS" than what does?
You talk about merging genres and you posit *one way* that could be done, but I posit Kobold Tribes is a least *another way* (if not a better way XD) to merge the two genres. If you prefer something different, go build it -- you have a map editor. You can't just say "oh, that's not RTS" just because it doesn't fit your particular version of the merge. I posit it *is* RTS, with a MOBA-like twist (and probably more this than vice-versa). Finally, don't knock it 'til you try it -- you might find yourself hooked like I did a year and a half ago!
On May 23 2014 07:36 DoubleReed wrote: The problem with skins is that they add clutter to the observation of the game. We need to be able to see what's happening. They've already added a few skins but even that is quite a lot imo. I do like the skins to the pylon and supply depot. I do think they could add lots of skins to buildings as a way for people to customize their own look. But customizing the units I think is pretty distracting.
And yes, I think I think a lot of people are asking for Warcraft 3. Which is fine. Warcraft 3 is a good game. I'm kind of curious what more they want out of Warcraft 3.
Yes, it's awesome!
I'm not sure how you could even tweak the game to make it better. As it is now, WC3 is pretty much perfect.
Oh... see I actually wanted and prefer Starcraft 2. I like how the races are a lot more different than in Warcraft 3. And in Warcraft 3 the units are so large it was basically like every race is Protoss. And as a Zerg player that is simply not okay. I want to swarm. I want my units to get all up in your face.
Heroes shmeroes. The only heroes I need are the couple of ultralisks mixed in with my cracklingswreckin' down your front door. Let Protoss have their heroes. Pah! Zerg doesn't need heroes. Zerg has reserves.
On May 23 2014 12:20 DoubleReed wrote: Oh... see I actually wanted and prefer Starcraft 2. I like how the races are a lot more different than in Warcraft 3. And in Warcraft 3 the units are so large it was basically like every race is Protoss. And as a Zerg player that is simply not okay. I want to swarm. I want my units to get all up in your face.
Heroes shmeroes. The only heroes I need are the couple of ultralisks mixed in with my cracklingswreckin' down your front door. Let Protoss have their heroes. Pah! Zerg doesn't need heroes. Zerg has reserves.
Is this a serious post or are you just making fun of Starcraft elitists? The races in WC3 were all differentiated more or less to a similar degree as the three races in SCII. Contrast moon wells with orc burrows, or militia to acolytes. There were plenty of swarming capabilities with necromancers and undead skeletons. And besides, the desire to match the races' characteristics with the in-game lore is one of the reasons why Blizzard has left the protoss mechanics the way they are. Not always the recipe to a great game.
As of right now, SCII is essentially a flawed rehash of Brood War. It's one of the reasons why I hesitate to call the game 'great' and is probably a major factor in its rapid decline in popularity.
Constant Evolution The idea is to have a game that changes dynamically because everything inside the game evolves:
- E.g.: At the beginning of the game, a zergling has no attack and moves very slowly. It gains attack and speed over the course of the next minutes and also changes its shape, becoming more and more powerful. After 30 minutes, the zergling is the size of an ultralisk. After 60 min the size of a colossus.
- E.g.: A marine has no attack at the beginning and can only be used for scouting. During the next minutes it evolves into a normal marine and then into a ghost. After that, it becomes bigger and more powerful and after 30min it becomes a full blown hero unit with special abilities. After 60 min it is the size of an archon and can plant insta-nukes.
- E.g.: A viking evolves into a battle cruiser, an SCV evolves into a Thor over time, an immortal just gets 10x bigger.
- Evolution can also go in the other direction. Units start strong and lose abilities over time: e.g.: hydralisks devolve into zerglings, colossi devolve into zealots.
- Buildings evolve constantly and gain/lose armor and defensive capabilities over time.
- The map can also be subjected to evolution: Mountain ranges can form and landslides can create new situations. Rivers may come into being and create lakes over the course of a game. Weather can change and have an effect on units.
All this evolution is not random but follows a pattern. Players will be required to come up with completely new strategies and constantly need to project forward how the evolution will shape future events. There is never a status quo to rely on. Also, evolution never ends!
On May 23 2014 23:33 urboss wrote: Constant Evolution The idea is to have a game that changes dynamically because everything inside the game evolves:
- E.g.: At the beginning of the game, a zergling has no attack and moves very slowly. It gains attack and speed over the course of the next minutes and also changes its shape, becoming more and more powerful. After 30 minutes, the zergling is the size of an ultralisk. After 60 min the size of a colossus.
how about the Veterancy mechanic of C&C? the kill count built into SC2 makes it easier to create a veterancy mechanic for a MOD.
On May 23 2014 12:20 DoubleReed wrote: Oh... see I actually wanted and prefer Starcraft 2. I like how the races are a lot more different than in Warcraft 3. And in Warcraft 3 the units are so large it was basically like every race is Protoss. And as a Zerg player that is simply not okay. I want to swarm. I want my units to get all up in your face.
Heroes shmeroes. The only heroes I need are the couple of ultralisks mixed in with my cracklingswreckin' down your front door. Let Protoss have their heroes. Pah! Zerg doesn't need heroes. Zerg has reserves.
Is this a serious post or are you just making fun of Starcraft elitists? The races in WC3 were all differentiated more or less to a similar degree as the three races in SCII. Contrast moon wells with orc burrows, or militia to acolytes. There were plenty of swarming capabilities with necromancers and undead skeletons. And besides, the desire to match the races' characteristics with the in-game lore is one of the reasons why Blizzard has left the protoss mechanics the way they are. Not always the recipe to a great game.
As of right now, SCII is essentially a flawed rehash of Brood War. It's one of the reasons why I hesitate to call the game 'great' and is probably a major factor in its rapid decline in popularity.
No, I'm being serious.
Yes, Warcraft 3 differentiates the races by their various abilities. That's kind of my point. Starcraft differentiates by the actual aspects of the unit in very extreme ways. Zerglings swarm stuff, and they're crazy fast, and they're best in surrounds. No unit in Warcraft 3 is comparable to the zergling.
Look, the smallest basic combat unit is the Ghoul. It has 340 hit points. The beefiest basic combat unit is the Grunt with 700 hit points. So basically 2x as much. Significant, right?
The Zergling has 35 hit points. The Zealot has 150 hit points. That's 4x.
This is not a minor difference. Zerglings get 1-shotted and 2-shotted all the damn time in SC2. We've all seen Zerglings melt like butter. You don't see that kind of thing in Warcraft 3. The micro in Warcraft 3 is basically the micro of PvP that we see plenty of. Units are just much larger, have more health, and are slower. There are no zerglings (or even stim marines). There's just a lot of Zealots and Stalkers. It's the way the game is.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, because the focus is more on the abilities (which is also generally true of Protoss). There's way more activated abilities and heroes that you keep track of. So the micro gets super intense in other ways, and the flavor of the race comes through that way as well.
Has anyone ever played an SC2 custom map where unit hit points are doubled while damage output stays the same? Does this make battles more interesting? Are there any downsides to doubling hit points?
maybe people ignoring that many just bought it to enjoy the story and never cared that much about multiplayer aside of the funmaps. but now we have good stand alone games that i used to play for example in wc3.
just asking because i was never in sc / scbw that much back in the days. how big was the community outside of korea? all i saw was once a yaer scbw eswc. it seems the community is way bigger outside of korea than back in the vanilla days. And we still have to get the final dlc so that we have a complete sc2 and can wait for the addon that will make everything better.
EPT
